Canning first class! what do you think?

Beverly Lynn

comfortably numb
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Can First Class


Like many frequent travelers, Violet Horvath has watched economy class devolve from a cheap but civilized way to travel to the trash compactor it is now.

"I would gladly give up being served food if I could just have a little more room," offers the Washington University graduate student. I think I've got a solution for Horvath and millions of other tortured travelers in the sardine seats: Let's can first class.

Get rid of those oversized seats, space the economy class seats further apart and for goodness sake treat passengers like people instead of animals.

Airlines know that it's the right thing to do, but they're hiding behind a number of tired excuses. They claim their frequent fliers wouldn't tolerate the elimination of first class and that they couldn't turn a profit with a one-class configuration. (In fact, more than half of first-class seats are filled with passengers using upgrades, which erodes the profit argument).

So convinced are the carriers that first class is indispensable to their operations that they're actually expanding the front of their planes. Lufthansa, TWA and US Airways have added seats with extra amenities to their aircraft-sometimes at the expense of their economy class travelers, who end up with less legroom in the reshuffled cabins.

The airlines are hyping the upgrades in newspaper and magazine ads. There's no mention, of course, of the fate awaiting the unfortunate majority that doesn't get a preferred seat.

I ran my idea of zapping first class by a few frequent travelers.

"If airlines would truly use the space to provide more leg and seat room, I would be in favor of removing the first class seats and restructuring the rest of the seats," says Minneapolis computer consultant Victor Parker.

But he's skeptical. "If this were to happen," he says, "I believe that the airlines would, after a suitable delay, return to using small seats and less leg room in order to get more seats on the plane." Ronald Bude, an associate professor of radiology at the University of Michigan, likes the idea of getting rid of the fancy seats but he, too, worries about the fallout.

"If the airline has to increase coach fares to compensate for the lost first class revenue, I would not be willing to pay more for domestic travel," he says.

It might not come to that. There are plenty of examples of carriers that thrive with just one class of service.

Take Southwest Airlines, for example, which operates three flavors of Boeing 737 with modest, but not cramped seats (the space between seats is about 30 to 33 inches, while legroom in other carriers can be as little as 29 inches).

Says spokeswoman Linda Rutherford: "I don't think the key to making money in the airline business is having a first-class section." She should know. Southwest has recorded 25 straight years of profitability.

Kiwi International, the regional carrier based in Newark, N.J., is in the black, too. The seats on its 727s are so spaced apart that passengers can cross their legs, which is something I wouldn't try in one of the major carriers' economy class sections.

"We don't have people asking us, 'Hey, when are you going to get first class?' Because we give everyone legroom and treat them well. And we don't overcharge them for their ticket," says spokesman Rob Kulat.

Lisa Bailey of Midwest Express Airlines in Milwaukee says it comes down to a carrier's philosophy. "There are those that pack 'em in and try to turn the most profit, but that doesn't work for us. We're a premium product for business travelers. We have more of a service strategy."

The two-by-two seat configuration on its DC-9s and MD-80s offers travelers 21 inches of width and about the same amount of legroom as Kiwi and Southwest. And Midwest Express has been profitable for the past 11 years.

Don't expect any of the major carriers to rip their first class seats out on my account. Knowing them, they'll come up with a whole new set of arguments against icing first class ("What are we, communists?") But as a passenger and someone who writes about planes from time to time, I think it's the only humane and sensible thing to do.
 
Hmmm...interesting question.

I have been upgraded once for free at Delta due to a schedule change. When you figure they charge 5 to 6 times as much for those first class seats, when people pay for them, I can see why they'd be reluctant to remove them. And, as pointed out, it provides an incentive for frequent fliers. Maybe if they took out just one row of economy seats, and readjusted the remaining seating (losing 6 cheap seats on a typical 737), the leg room would be more comfortable and the profit margin could be maintained. It would add 29 to 33 inches, that may be an extra inch or two of leg room. It would also save the fuel required for the weight of 6 passengers and luggage.
 
It won't change a thing. Just look at Delta Express and MetroJet. No first class there, no meals, and certainly no more room.
 

Is Kiwi Internatonal still in business? I thought that they went under...
 
they were still operating some short haul flights...but not sure f they are still operating as of today.
 
Kiwi went bankrupt a few years ago....they owe my business some money and all I can hope for is some of the proceed from the sell off of their assets like those wonderful seats...and I am not kidding!!!
 
Wonder if they will change the TWA cabins like they did the AA cabins now that AA has bought out TWA?

Gerri
 
fostrmom2mny-Yes AA is removing 2 rows of seats on all TWA planes and this should be complete in Nov 2001. Their aircraft will also be getting a new paint job but this won't be completed until 2002.

How many people who have bought tickets lately consider the leg room/comfort first? AA has taken out 2 rows on all domestic planes (international will be done by fall). Have any of you checked AA first for their fares? And if it was a few dollars more did you still consider it so you would be more comfortable? Most leisure travelers look for price first and amenities second. Thats why most airlines have cut back on all sorts of things, like meals, leg room, etc. Many people vote with their pocketbook and many businesses will cut as much as they can until they see their profits fall.

Unfortunately Airlines advertise their product as very glamorous. When in reality its just a way to get from here to there quickly, most of the time :D .With as many people traveling now it is usually not glamorous and just something to endure. I hope you all have happy travels.
 
Too bad they can't do something about seat width.

Donna
 
Originally posted by SJCSuzy
fostrmom2mny-Yes AA is removing 2 rows of seats on all TWA planes and this should be complete in Nov 2001. Their aircraft will also be getting a new paint job but this won't be completed until 2002.

TWA is changing the seat pitch on all of their planes except the DC-9s which will all be retired by early next year.

This from the TWA website..

http://www.twa.com/specials/newlook.html

Conversion of 159 TWA aircraft to the More Room Throughout Coach configuration began this week. Three modification lines will operate simultaneously at Kansas City, taking as many as three aircraft each day through the changeover. All TWA MD80, 717 and 757 aircraft will be converted by Labor Day. TWA’s widebody 767-300 aircraft will be reconfigured at the airline’s Los Angeles maintenance hangar. Those aircraft will be reconfigured by October. TWA’s DC9 aircraft, all of which are scheduled for retirement by the first quarter of 2002, will not be converted to More Room Throughout Coach seating.
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Don't get rid of First Class!!!!!

When flying short hauls, like EWR or PHL to MCO I never spend the money or miles on a FC seat. But when I'm flying anywhere longer than about 3 hours, I always either fly FC or AA.

The difference on AA is amazing since they've reconfigured their coach cabins. I love to fly first class, and remain loyal to a couple of carriers for that purpose. Additionally, I carry and use their credit cards in order to rack up even more points. I'm pretty lucky about being able to get upgrades for free on short hauls :-)

Anne
 
I am all for it, but only if it meant more leg room PLUS wider seats for all. I have a feeling that the airlines wouldn't just jam too many seats on the plane and it wouldn't be any more comfortable for passengers.
 
Someone pointed out that leisure travellers vote with their wallets; so how do business travelers vote?

If you work for my firm, you don't vote. We have an inhouse travel agent, and a travel policy that lays out the rules for flight preferences. All of our time at the client site is billable by the hour, so they want to get us in and out quickly. First preference is given based on the the duration of travel time, which means whichever airline has a direct flight, or failing that, the fewest connections. If more than one airline has a direct flight, the one with the lowest price will be chosen, unless the flight times are really out there. For overseas travel, they will book us in Business class for flights to Asia, but Europe is always coach. They do let us keep our miles, however, which means that some folks could manage upgrades fairly frequently. However, most folks here save their miles for family vacation use.

So yep, we don't need first class. Business class on overseas flights, sure, but first class on domestic short hauls is a space-wasting relic.
 
There is really no link between first class and the legroom in coach. An airline could remove coach seats for more room and keep first class or they could get rid of first class and just stick in more seats. The airlines without first class don't generally have any more legroom. Most of us book the cheapest fares. If an airline had better coach (more legroom, maybe better food) how much more would you pay? It seems most people prefer to have the fares as low as possible.
 
OK, here's a proposal. About a "premium" economy class. 1/2 way between first class and economy. Maybe more leg room, wider seats, but not all the amenites (like food served on china or free headsets). I am at the point in my life where I'd be willing to pay more for comfort, but not the exhorbitant prices of first class.

Donna
 
Thanks for posting this very interesting thread! Regarding premium coach class seating: We will be flying Continental this Oct. from SEA to MCO (from what I hear the airline with some of the most cramped coach seats out there), and they offer these premium coach seats, at no extra charge!(sarcastic LOL) What's the catch you ask? Well these are reserved for their "preferred frequent flyer" folks so common vacationers such as you and I are not worthy.

I agree with those of you who feel that it would be a poor business decision for the airlines to get rid of something that travelers have shown they will easily pay these ridiculously high prices for. Also, I feel that the vast majority of travelers out there do base their choice of carrier mostly on price as opposed to service or convenience. I know we do. And reading these and other travel message boards, people get very excited whenever they can save any amount of money(just look at the car rental posts).

For me and my family who don't fly more than a couple of times a year it's worth the money saved for a few hours of slightly less than comfortable seating. Over the span of a lifetime it's really not much of an inconvenience for us. ($177 to fly cross country isn't bad either, especially when we're going vacationing for 2 weeks).

Thanks for letting me share my humble opinions.:cool:
 












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