Can you come up with a new tipping system?

[Conservative Hippie]

I was thinking about this today, how we tip based upon the price of the meal we ordered.

Say I go to a fancy Italian place one night. I'm in the mood for something plain, so I order the pasta with marinara for $15. The service is really good, so I tip her 20%, which is $3.

Then the next week I go back to fancy Italian place. Now I'm in the mood for seafood, so I order the lobster ravioli for $30. This time the service is really bad. I only leave a 10% tip. This server gets the same $3 the previous server got, only because I ordered something more expensive.

Fair? I don't think so. I first started thinking about this when I overheard a server talking to a co-worker about our table. He said something about he wasn't going to make much money tonight because he had to get the teetotalers. I asked a friend who was a waitress about this, and she said that yeah, some of the servers will slack off if you don't order alcohol because their tip will be smaller anyway because your bill is smaller. However, I cannot think of a better tipping system.

 

[Disney8704]

I can see your point. I've never thought of this. I've always just tipped 15% if the service was good. If the service was outstanding (waitress fills drinks without having to ask, checking on you once in awhile, etc.) then 18 - 20%. If the service was horrible, then I generally dont leave a tip at all. My stepdad told me, leaving 1 cent will show them we havent forgotten the tip, but also saying hey the service was horrible, get your act together. But I've never have actually left 1 cent before. If the service is horrible then we generally wont leave a tip at all. If the service was ok, not great but not horrible then I'll leave what I felt they deserve. No % at that point. If my bill comes to like $20 and it was just OK, well I would prob leave like $1 or $2, which comes out to be 5% - 10%. But to figure out what you should tip if you order something more expensive but got poor service then I would take the amount you would have left at 10% and cut it in half. So if your meal came to $30, instead of paying $3, pay $1.50. Just an idea.

 

[just another guy]

No. No other system will ever be put into place at disney nor elsewhere.

Say I go to a fancy Italian place one night. I'm in the mood for something plain, so I order the pasta with marinara for $15. The service is really good, so I tip her 20%, which is $3.

Then the next week I go back to fancy Italian place. Now I'm in the mood for seafood, so I order the lobster ravioli for $30. This time the service is really bad. I only leave a 10% tip. This server gets the same $3 the previous server got, only because I ordered something more expensive.

Well lets flip it around, you have a single mother of 2 busting her rear for a 9 hour shift at Waffle House for $80 in tips. Just across the street, a high school kid works 7 hours at Apple Bees and pockets $140 in tips. Next door, a college student works 5 hours at Ruth's Chris Steak House and brings home $210. I can almost guarantee you the mother at Waffle House worked the hardest, but makes the least. Is that fair? No, but its pretty much her own fault for not working at one of the two places across the street.

I first started thinking about this when I overheard a server talking to a co-worker about our table. He said something about he wasn't going to make much money tonight because he had to get the teetotalers. I asked a friend who was a waitress about this, and she said that yeah, some of the servers will slack off if you don't order alcohol because their tip will be smaller anyway because your bill is smaller. However, I cannot think of a better tipping system.

Its called playing the odds. Any server does it nonstop, all day. I use to work at Apple Bees. Lets pretend I got sat two tables at exactly the same time, each has 5 people. As I come out, I see one table(and if ya like it or not, stereotpyes place a HUGE spot in waiting tables) a snobby looking religios family(all dressed up, no one looks happy, etc) VS a group of 5 younger business professionals all laughing and smiling. My attention is automaticallty going to the young professionals. Now if its friday evening, and one person quickly says, "Alright guys, I'm buying the first round of beers." they they would have pretty much stealed the deal on my attention. They would get refills first, extra napkins quicker, etc. Like I said, weather you like it or not, thats how it goes.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

No. No other system will ever be put into place at disney nor elsewhere.



Well lets flip it around, you have a single mother of 2 busting her rear for a 9 hour shift at Waffle House for $80 in tips. Just across the street, a high school kid works 7 hours at Apple Bees and pockets $140 in tips. Next door, a college student works 5 hours at Ruth's Chris Steak House and brings home $210. I can almost guarantee you the mother at Waffle House worked the hardest, but makes the least. Is that fair? No, but its pretty much her own fault for not working at one of the two places across the street.

That's what I'm saying, in my example, one server worked hard and got the same reward as the one that slacked off. And that's really not the first server's fault.

I'm not talking about just Disney, either. But I can't come up with anything else that works. I guess it's like taxes and Social Security--it's broke, but no one can agree on how to fix it.

 

[just another guy]

If the service was horrible, then I generally dont leave a tip at all. My stepdad told me, leaving 1 cent will show them we havent forgotten the tip, but also saying hey the service was horrible, get your act together. But I've never have actually left 1 cent before. If the service is horrible then we generally wont leave a tip at all. If the service was ok, not great but not horrible then I'll leave what I felt they deserve. No % at that point. If my bill comes to like $20 and it was just OK, well I would prob leave like $1 or $2, which comes out to be 5% - 10%.

From a servers perspective, they often know a bad tip is coming. Any server will use the expression, "if you haven't done it(been a server) you wouldn't understand" which is true, but let me attempt to slightly explain. There could be a thousand different setups, but here's one. The server is very busy on a friday night, and can barely keep up with his current 5 tables. The manager says, server suzy fell and hurt her foot, so you must take those two tables that just got sat. The server doesn't have a choice, saying he can't won't work, so all he can do is try. Being honest, the server is there for the money. They have to look at the facts that they know they can't handle 7 tables. The server has two choice.

-Attempt their best at 7 tables. Service won't be perfect, refills will take a while, extra BBQ won't be coming quickly, and the tip average will decline. Lets say 10% of 7 tables = 70

-Work their best at their first 5 tables, and basically screw over the other two tables. 18% of 5 tables, plus maybe 5% of two tables = 100

Clearly the smart thing to do based on money is the second option. It sucks for those people at the two tables, but a server can only spread themselves so thin.

 

[smidgy]

. No % at that point. If my bill comes to like $20 and it was just OK, well I would prob leave like $1 or $2, which comes out to be 5% - 10%. But to figure out what you should tip if you order something more expensive but got poor service then I would take the amount you would have left at 10% and cut it in half. So if your meal came to $30, instead of paying $3, pay $1.50. Just an idea.[/QUOTE]

so for average service, you leave 5-10 %? do you realize servers make very little and depend on tips? generally, the IRS figures you are going to tip 15%, and tax on that.

when I eat out, I start out at 20%, and if service is poor, it goes DOWN from that. a table with many drink refills is going to take a lot more time than one without. however,(as a srever) I have had tables that sat for an hour after dinner, with free refills for coffee(no alcohol), chatting. still taking up my time, my table. some will tip according to TIME (God bless 'em), others will sit (and sit) and take up time and still tip only 10-15%.
It sounds like you are starting OUT at 10%. If you have poor service, let it be known to the server. perhaps they are short handed (not her fault, not your fault) I once had a TERRIBLE meal, but tipped the server 20%, because it was the cook, not her. she was great and very apologetic. but I let the management know I was not happy with the FOOD, NOT the server.
If you leave a $3 tip for a $30 meal for normal service, well, never mind.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Clearly the smart thing to do based on money is the second option. It sucks for those people at the two tables, but a server can only spread themselves so thin.

I used to do this when I worked on commission. If for some reason I had way too many customers, would it make more sense for me to spread myself out over 10 of them and sell none? Or really work 5 so I definitely sell them and neglect the other 5? I agree, sucks for the 5 that got no service, but I had a paycheck to make.

 

[Bellybee]

Tipping seems much harder to understand in the US than it is over here in the UK.
Servers here make minimum wage which is enough to live on and there are plenty of other people earning it myself included at one point but I don't know if they get taxed on their tips.
We generally tip approx 10% over here and then check out the customs overseas.
Like at WDW we will tip 20% most of the time unless we have really poor service, it is weird though because we look at the bill work out 20% and think really should we really leave that much just because it is double what we leave here.

 

[Mulan82]

generally, i stay away from these type of threads....

i serve and its a pretty big issue with me.

tonight for example.

i worked til close. this coming off from my full time job where i worked 8:3-5. i couldn't get my check above 30 bucks tonight no matter how hard i tried. everyone wanted a soft drink or water. it was starting to get really aggravating. i walked with pretty much nothing tonight. i mean, it didn't help that the Eagles preseason was on. because unless you are a sports bar restaurant, the Eagles pretty much kill any busniess you are going to have.

alcohol does help out your checks. big time. i walk (normally) with far more money in a shorter period of time at the restaurant i work at now versus when i worked at a cracker barrel ( which if you don't know.. doesn't serve alcohol..).

BUT...

just because you don't order an alcoholic beverage doesn't mean im going to give you bad service.

i read my tables when i do my greet. if you're going to be moody and look like you hate the world, i think.." great.. im going to get nothng..this is going to be real fun" then its a question of, do i want to work hard for this money because i know that im not going to get anything? generally speaking, i work the same for every table, BUT there is that occasion when i really am just like, whats the point? let me turn my attention to table over here that i know is actually going to leave me some money. it would help offset the nothing you are going to leave me. some servers i know don't care. if they can tell that you aren't going to leave you any money... they won't do a darn thing for ya. if i know, however, that no matter what i do. if i say, go get you a little leprachan or a magic genie, and you still are unhappy. then, maybe, i will stop trying. because i know that no matter what i do, i can't make that guest happy. and believe me, there are actually some people that are like that. i could have given them ( if you are a guy ..) carmen electra, pam anderson and jessica alba in a hot tub, and that still wouldn't have been good enough.BUT.. if the table is fun and pleasant and jokes around with you, you kinda know how your tip is going to go.. normally. there is the rare occasion that you work the table really hard and they leave you less than u thought they would. i hate the "you are the best server i ever had" line and they leave you like 10%. jeez. what do you leave the server that was really bad?

as for a new tipping system, i don't think they really need one. i don't really feel its unfair in any way. if you had extremely great service but a small bill you aren't obligated to leave only 3 on 15. if i had great service, i would leave 5 on 15. if i had poor service on 30, and im talking really bad service, i would leave 2 on 30. just because you had great service, 20% isn't say, the maximum that you have to leave your server. if your service was great, you should show that server that you appreciated it.

ok. im done.
and i hope i made some kind of sense.

 

[Uncleromulus]

You did.
I guess the only way to "correct" the current tipping system is to end it entirely--pay the servers a true, real and fair wage. But that would probably drive menu prices to the point of menu "shock"--and good service wouldn't be encouraged.
So I guess we live with what we have. I don't mind it as a customer, and servers who want to hustle and earn some good $$$ can seek out the proper restaurant where that can happen. As noted, that would probably be an Applebees (or California Grill) on a Saturday night rather than Cracker Barrel on a Tuesday morning.

 

[richard_andmel]

It's hard to judge how much to tip mediocre service. Good service and bad service are easy. One thing we always do though is tip good breakfast service a much higher percentage than dinner service, because the bills are so much smaller but they work just as hard. (Plus I wouldn't want to be that cheerful and work that hard at 7:30 in the morning. )

 

[mom2my3kids]

I don't know about the alcohol bill because where I work we don't serve it (IHOP). We get alot of senior citizens and most do not tip 15-20% of the bill. And its not because of bad service its just they don't tip well. Now some will but that is few and far between..We usually get 3 tables to work off of on the weekends, we are packed and you are busy from the moment you walk into the restaurant until shift change. During the week it depends on whats going on, yesterday I got to work at 8:00 A.M. took one table and daycare called my son was sick so I had to transfer it over and leave. It was getting busy so I am sure it would of been a good day but hey my kids come first.

 

[corgi_monster]

Please forgive me if these are totally ignorant questions as I've never waited tables before. I have worked on 1 or 2 restaurant accounts and seen the books, so I'm asking these questions from a business/managerial pov:

1. If the waitor wants a larger tip, shouldn't he or she push the most expensive item on the menu, alcohol, appetizers, dessert, etc? Are these things possible to sell? How much effort does a waitor need to put forth in order to make the sale?

2. Is it fair to compare a waitress from Denny's to a waitress at a high-end restaurant? To me, this is like comparing a cashier at the market to a cashier at Ann Taylor (cashiers there are not supposed to sell). This is NOT to say that one necessarily works harder than the other. It has been my experience, in general, that waitors in high end restaurants have much better customer service skills, are more professional, and are better equipped to answer specific questions such as what region a fish is from, what ingredients were used to make the potatos, etc. Shouldn't someone with these capabilities be compensated at a higher rate?

 

[corgi_monster]

One more question for those that have experience in the food industry - What do bad tippers look like? I certainly hope they don't look like me

 

[mom2my3kids]

To be honest, I don't care if someone who works at a big,fancy,expensive place gets extra tips. I only care that people take care of me when I work and tip me 15-20% of the bill. It does not bother me if they don't order lots of food, now if they orders coffees and don't eat and want to use my table as a office for 2 hours and tip 1.00 that bothers me. We work off our tables if you are holding it up for 2 hours then we are losing money. You should tip very well even if you are not eating for holding up my table. Now saying you can see bad tippers and know, some you can I won't add the debate on here about that but you do know some from the moment they walk in the door are not going to tip. The middle class are usually better tippers, because I think a lot of them have served one point in their lives. We actually do have regulars that come in that are horrible tippers, they get service but not the extras. We have regulars that tip good and take care of us as much as we take care of them. They bring in goodies all the time and around Christmas we get lots of baked items and such..Well I must go get ready for my day at work..

 

[dburg30]

From a servers perspective, they often know a bad tip is coming. Any server will use the expression, "if you haven't done it(been a server) you wouldn't understand" which is true, but let me attempt to slightly explain. There could be a thousand different setups, but here's one. The server is very busy on a friday night, and can barely keep up with his current 5 tables. The manager says, server suzy fell and hurt her foot, so you must take those two tables that just got sat. The server doesn't have a choice, saying he can't won't work, so all he can do is try. Being honest, the server is there for the money. They have to look at the facts that they know they can't handle 7 tables. The server has two choice.

-Attempt their best at 7 tables. Service won't be perfect, refills will take a while, extra BBQ won't be coming quickly, and the tip average will decline. Lets say 10% of 7 tables = 70

-Work their best at their first 5 tables, and basically screw over the other two tables. 18% of 5 tables, plus maybe 5% of two tables = 100

Clearly the smart thing to do based on money is the second option. It sucks for those people at the two tables, but a server can only spread themselves so thin.

Well just remember also that if you screw over those 5 tables (if I was one of them) and the service was that bad, I probably wouldnt go back for a LONG time. It's also pretty well known that people that have bad experiences tell more people then ones with good. So if service is bad too often your tables may deduce if people stop showing up . When I consider service I take into account how busy it is, and also you can tell if somethings just not right, and if it doesnt seem to be the servers fault then yea, I'll probably still tip some, as shown in your 2nd scenario. BUT if there are LOTS of tables open, and the server just plain doesnt give a crap or sucks, that's when a big fat zero comes out. I have to deal with the public face to face everyday, so for me to leave NO tip means there was something VERY VERY bad about the service.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Yikes I answered this on the CB and wondered why it was not here, guess you put the question in both places....

I will copy and paste my answer from the CB here:

"Here's the thing... some of us do not drink because we have chosen not to. And I have been on the receiving of lackluster service because we do not drink. I can think of one restaurant in WDW that happened to us at. The server never came back to the table once she realized we were not going to wine pair or have a cocktail, she served our food and we never saw her again... My husband's chicken was not cooked, we ended up calling over the manager who sided with the absent server and we have never eaten at that restaurant again..

On tipping, my Mom was a waitress her whole life, worked hard for the money. You would have to do something pretty horrible for us to leave less than 15%. We figure it this way if the bill is low because I have chosen to eat something inexpensive or it is breakfast which is always cheaper than most meals....we tip more than 20%....we just put down what we feel they deserve. If they have gone out of their way to make sure we never had to ask for anything, then yes they get way more than 20% out of us... If it is an expensive bill, then the 20 or 25% usually takes care of a decent tip. "

JMO.

 

[fla4fun]

The server is very busy on a friday night, and can barely keep up with his current 5 tables. The manager says, server suzy fell and hurt her foot, so you must take those two tables that just got sat. The server doesn't have a choice, saying he can't won't work, so all he can do is try. Being honest, the server is there for the money. They have to look at the facts that they know they can't handle 7 tables. The server has two choice.

-Attempt their best at 7 tables. Service won't be perfect, refills will take a while, extra BBQ won't be coming quickly, and the tip average will decline. Lets say 10% of 7 tables = 70

-Work their best at their first 5 tables, and basically screw over the other two tables. 18% of 5 tables, plus maybe 5% of two tables = 100

Clearly the smart thing to do based on money is the second option. It sucks for those people at the two tables, but a server can only spread themselves so thin.

I have a friend who's a server and recently changed jobs because of this very scenario. He takes pride in his work and wanted to serve the best he could, but you're right, you can't give great service if there are too many to serve. The irony was that the guests who didn't get the stellar service (the "other two" tables) complained to management about the lack of service instead of leaving meager tips and management came down hard on the server (which both my friend and I feel was unreasonable, considering they knew he was overloaded and why). This happened one too many times and so now that restaurant (not a Disney one) is down one very good server and left with a bunch that like to call out all the time. I would think at a place like Disney, where the guest is, for the most part, always right, it could be dangerous to your career to treat one group of tables well and not another.

I agree with those who feel servers should make a living wage and only get tips if they provide excellent service. They should be tipped according to what they do, not a percent scale on a cheat sheet included with the bill. After all, most of us tip housekeeping at hotels, and they earn more than the servers do as base pay. So why can't the servers be paid fairly too?

 

[salmoneous]

Yes - disney should raise prices 18%, pool the 18% and split it amount the servers, and institute a no-tipping policy. That would eliminate the whole problem. Disney was moving in that direction with old Dining Plan - I'm so disspointed with them taking tips out of the plan for this reason.

Tipping is moronic. Why should an employer underpay workers and then have the cutomers pay workers on a voluntary basis. It makes no sense to me.

For what it's worth, having worked tipped jobs in my life, I tend to be generous with tips because I know the workers appreacite the money. But they sysem is still moronic.

And I don't by the whole tips=service justification, especially at a place like Disney. Disney is able to train tens of thousands of CM's to provide great servcie in non-tipped positions. They could do it at the restaurantes as well.

 

[Uncleromulus]

They could try, I suppose. But human nature being what it is, I still think a # of server CM's would lose the incentive to do anything beyond acceptable. Not poor enough to promt complaints, but not good enough so you'll remember a server and ask for him/her next time you go to a restaurant.

The tipping system has been around for a long time and hasn't changed. I imagine the restaurant industry folks (owners, managers, servers, bartenders) could tell us why--.
As an aside, just pooling the 18% among the servers probably wouldn't do it. They only make $2.85 or so an hour as it is..their salaries would have to rise considerably.
And if menu prices went up 18%, that filet at Citricos would come in at around $46.00--or more. No tip of course, but just the "price shock" would probably deter a # of folks.