Can you be fired because you have cancer?

[DWGal210]

I hope your friend can get some answers & de-stress about this. To be stressed & fighting cancer is just terrible.

Our family company is small, about 25 FTEs. One of our admin assistants, who's been with us for 10+ years, had cancer last year. She's much better, thank God. Her time was very flexible, and we really worked with her so she could take the time she needed without feeling added stress. She came in when she could for about 5-6 months & has been FT again since this spring. With a small company, she's like family & we wanted to do right by her.

I can see where her company is coming from, esp if she's management. But a little compassion goes a long way.

 

[Pigeon]

She was not fired for having cancer. She was fired because she cannot do her job any longer. FMLA protects the job for 12 weeks. After that, if the employee cannot return, the employer has the right to fill the position.

It is unfair to expect an employer to leave a position open.

And before someone calls me heartless, I am a cancer survivor.

Being a cancer survivor and being heartless are clearly not mutually exclusive.

 

[Pakey]

First let me say that I'm a working cancer patient. Also, HR is one of the departments I manage so I'm familiar with FMLA and ADA laws.

Second, I'm sorry your friend is going through this. Bad enough to deal with an illness but add the fear of losing your livelihood and medical insurance and that's a lot of stress for a person to handle.

Most companies will terminate once the 12 weeks of FMLA have been exhausted. The 12 weeks is per year (the 12 months will start from the first date of absence that is charged to FMLA), not per lifetime so perhaps your friend can manage her time to stay within the grace period. She definitely needs to talk to HR and HR will be able to give her updates on the number of hours that have been charged to FMLA (she will have to request).

Speaking as someone who is in upper management in a mid-sized company, compassion has nothing to do with this. You can't pick and choose to apply a policy to this certain set of circumstances but not to another. It's a hardship for employers to hold jobs open indefinitely for an illness. We currently have at least a dozen people out on FMLA, some in critical positions that make it difficult for the company to run smoothly without them. Holding a position open for a year or 2 years on each of these individuals would be impossible so we follow policy in every instance.

If your friend thinks that she may exceed the 12 weeks, she should look into medicaid and be ready to apply for it if she loses her job.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

Depending on the size of the company that she works for she may not be covered by FMLA anyway. FMLA only covers those who work for companies with more than 50 employees.

From the employers perspective (if she does work for a small company especially) I can see how they would not be able to hold her position open for very long. Every employee performs valuable duties and having those holes in production effects the entire company and can put others jobs and livelihood in jeopardy.

It's an awful position to be in, I wish there were better alternatives but other than advance planning there aren't many. Would Aflack or a similar company offer any benefits in this situation?

 

[Rabscuttle]

Just a reminder, although it has probably been mentioned and I didn't read all of the posts. FML can be used intermittently. If someone takes 4 weeks off continuously, or due to the condition for which they have been granted FML, they need two days a week or a month off, or a half a day here and there, as long as it doesn't exceed 12 weeks, (Federal) and some states have 16 weeks per year. Just an aside; it is just traditional "companies" that fire people for absences. Some hospitals are ruthless when it comes to firing if one doesn't qualify for FML, (number of hours worked per year or haven't been there a year) even when you are hospitalized in the facility where you work.

 

[LilyWDW]

Being a cancer survivor and being heartless are clearly not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, then I am heartless too.

I feel bad for the woman, but she needs to know and take the avenues open to here. This means FMLA or temporary disability. THAT is why they are there!

I also would never expect a company to deal with an extended illness beyond what they are required to do. It is unfair to expect the company to work short handed for an unknown amount of time and hold that position when they don't know WHEN it will get better. They have to be allowed to fill a position if the loss of the employee is detrimental. As someone who has been a manager and been required to work way more hours due to the lack of another manager, there is a real reason to fill that spot.

 

[Allison]

Being a cancer survivor and being heartless are clearly not mutually exclusive.

And your comment is unfair. The poster was providing information.

 

[dngnb8]

Being a cancer survivor and being heartless are clearly not mutually exclusive.

Apparently abiding by the board rules isnt either.

 

[Mickey527]

I'm sorry for your friend.

I did a quick google this morning as I was curious and it does seem that there was a case regarding cancer being covered under ADA. For the purposes of your inquiry, it was not.

Then AIDS (or HIV?) was declared a disability under ADA, so perhaps case law will later find that cancer IS considered a disability.


I know for a fact that only Stage 4 cancer is considered a disability. when I was diagnosed I took short term disability and was out for 6 months. When I was ready to go back I was told that my job was given to the night nurse and they had nothing for me. I took them to court and they gave me my job but I had to do the night job. I did find after 3 months that I was no longer able to work due to the neuropathy from the chemo so I applied for SSDI.
I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer but joke was on them, here I am 7 years later with no signs of cancer, just the neuropathy and lymphedema.

 

[eliza61]

Thank you all very much for your input and information.

I can see both sides of it as well - from an employer's perspective and from my friend's. I have told her to talk to HR immediately about the FMLA so I hope that she does. The company is all about the bottom line which is no surprise.

Her stress level is through the roof right now which can't be helping her battle with cancer. I just hate to see her being kicked while she is down.

whats even worse is if she loses her job how does she then pay for her health care? and then how does she get health insurance afterwards without it costing her tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[bellarella]

I'm so sorry for your friend.

She should definitely look at what protections FMLA will give her and follow the rules carefully.

Oh -- and it sounds like a couple of different theories are being confused in this thread. FMLA is different from the ADA or SSI. Also rules allowing for termination for no reason do not allow termination for an improper reason. Your friend may need to contact a lawyer to find out some of her rights and be sure to document, document, document.

Also, to those reading this, this thread is a good reminder that short and long term disability insurance may be one of the most important insurance policies you can get. People often are very on top of life insurance, but over look the financial devastation that medical disability can create. If you are able to get it through your employer it is often just a couple of dollars a month.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm so sorry for your friend.

She should definitely look at what protections FMLA will give her and follow the rules carefully.

Oh -- and it sounds like a couple of different theories are being confused in this thread. FMLA is different from the ADA or SSI. Also rules allowing for termination for no reason do not allow termination for an improper reason. Your friend may need to contact a lawyer to find out some of her rights and be sure to document, document, document.

Also, to those reading this, this thread is a good reminder that short and long term disability insurance may be one of the most important insurance policies you can get. People often are very on top of life insurance, but over look the financial devastation that medical disability can create. If you are able to get it through your employer it is often just a couple of dollars a month.

No confusion--very separate things, but the point of mentioning them is that the answer to the OP's question is "yes".

ADA would be where you look to protection for the disability. Cancer does not seem to be a disability. So it would not be improper--if she exhausted all of her FMLA and is not performing her job as she should, to be terminated or demoted to a job with less responsibilities.

Good point on the disability. WHile it isn't 100% of the paycheck, it is usually inexpensive to add on and at least covers some of your paycheck. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

FMLA has limitations and there is a protocol.

 

[kim929]

My friend and I worked for a very large bank that nobody really likes. She went out on leave the end of 09 due to cancer. She had numerous operations and in the end lost muscle control of her lower half. The bank decided she was fine to return, they stopped paying her disability and gave her a date she had to return by, if she didn't return she was fired.
they fired her and she passed away a few days after the date she was suppose to return. So yes, they can fire you.
I hope your friend has the strength to fight that horrible disease.

 

[disney1990]

I am sorry for your friend. My company does everything that they can do in order to hold positions for our associates.

 

[quentina]

Is she fmla eligible with service and hours? Did she have available and purchase long term disability?

Can you be terminated? Yes, if you out of FMLA or for cause.

I would ask for a copy of the handbook, confirm any extra policies (LTD, cancer policies etc) and if she hasn't apply for an intermitent FMLA.

 

[quentina]

My friend and I worked for a very large bank that nobody really likes. She went out on leave the end of 09 due to cancer. She had numerous operations and in the end lost muscle control of her lower half. The bank decided she was fine to return, they stopped paying her disability and gave her a date she had to return by, if she didn't return she was fired.
they fired her and she passed away a few days after the date she was suppose to return. So yes, they can fire you.
I hope your friend has the strength to fight that horrible disease.

Many large companies will extend FMLA by a few weeks. For example, you use 12 weeks fmla and then you get a return by letter....example, as you are aware, you have been on fmla from xxxx to xxxx. As of now, your fmla is expired thus, we will not guarantee a rate of pay, position or location.

We will grant you an unpaid, personal leave of absence until XXXX. If you are not able to return by XXXX, your seperation will be processed.

It is standard. I write at least one a day.

 

[101DalmFan]

I have no words of advice as I don't live in the US, so laws/rules etc are totally different here.

But I did want to say how sorry I am that your friend is going through this and also acknowledge how this must be so stressful for you too, watching a good friend go through this.

Only good wishes and positive thoughts that this all works out in the end!

 

[tvguy]

She needs to contact her HR department, and if she hasn't filed FMLA paerwork, she needs to do that ASAP.

I would suggest she hire an advocate or attorney to look out for her interests.
As for HR, they existed to look out for the company, and that was the first department eliminated when the economy tanked at a lot of companies so a lot of us, HR isn't an option. Everything is contracted to an outside online only service.

 

[canopynut66]

I have a friend battling breast cancer for the 2nd time in 2 years. She works for a major retail company on the corporate side (middle management) and has for several years. She is a very hard working employee who goes above and beyond to get things done no matter how many hours she has to work.

The past month has been especially rough for her healthwise because she contracted an infectious blood disease through her port. She had to spend the entire week of Thanksgiving in the hospital because she had contracted sepsis (most likely through her port). Since she was in the hospital, she missed that entire week of work which is the busiest week of the year (Black Friday weekend).

Her boss has reprimanded her for her attendance even though he knows full well of the struggle she is having to endure. He is now threatening to fire her unless she goes out on an extended medical leave or takes a demotion within the company. All someone with cancer needs is more stress so this should not be allowed.

So my question is, can she be fired for being sick? Is she protected by any legal means?

She has consulted an attorney who told her to come back when they fire her. She obviously doesn't want to lose her job (and her health insurance) but she doesn't know if she has any rights at all in this situation.

Thanks for any resources or information that I can pass on to her!

Depends on the state but in Indiana they can fire you for no reason it is called "just cause" and may or may not get unemployment. My Mother was really ill and I took all vacation tome and sick time and had been top performer with bonus etc for three years straight and still was even with being off and when she died and I went back to work he let me work two weeks and fired me. said he "knew"my work eventually would suffer from the loss of my Mother????? I did receive unemployment. Is really hard in Indiana to file suit on employer. there is the FMLA but company has have certain amount of employees or they do not fall under that and mine was only 20 people so they would not honor that..we did have a gal who had breast cancer and he fired her while she in the hospital. so yes can be done. Horrible as it is as your right they will lose insurance as few can pay COBRA when out of a job.

 

[hulagirl87]

If you work in a "at will" state, you can be fired for no reason at all.

I can vouch for this. I was fired from a job I was at for 9 years for taking 2 weeks for surgery and recovery instead of the 1 week I was originally granted. I had some complications.

My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer last month and went in for her surgery today. As of right now her job is very understanding, but she is very nervous about this same thing, that they will let her go because she is taking time off for her surgery and recovery. And then if she needs chemo.... She's very worried.