Can we talk settings in full sun?

[MinnieForMe]

I'm a photography idiot so I keep asking questions! Have patience with me. Someday it might click.

I'm heading to Disney in a month and expect to be taking pictures in full sun. It's been overcast in New England for what seems like forever so I can get away with taking pictures at f2.8 but I'm anticipating that f2.8 in the Florida sun will lead to a very overexposed picture. I'm planning on setting my mode to AV because my family doesn't want to stop for pictures anymore. So, would f8 be a good place to start?

Should I turn on the flash for fill?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ssanders79]

I'm a photography idiot so I keep asking questions! Have patience with me. Someday it might click.

I'm heading to Disney in a month and expect to be taking pictures in full sun. It's been overcast in New England for what seems like forever so I can get away with taking pictures at f2.8 but I'm anticipating that f2.8 in the Florida sun will lead to a very overexposed picture. I'm planning on setting my mode to AV because my family doesn't want to stop for pictures anymore. So, would f8 be a good place to start?

Should I turn on the flash for fill?

Thanks for any advice.

It really depends on the situation. The FL sun can be intense, but Disney architecture offers quite a lot of shade. I typically walk around with a 30mm f/1.8 and for the most part shoot wide open in A or M without much of an issue. I must say there are not many times where I'm pushed to 1/4000s to get the exposure at f/1.8.

 

[JoeDif]

I'm a photography idiot so I keep asking questions! Have patience with me. Someday it might click.

I'm heading to Disney in a month and expect to be taking pictures in full sun. It's been overcast in New England for what seems like forever so I can get away with taking pictures at f2.8 but I'm anticipating that f2.8 in the Florida sun will lead to a very overexposed picture. I'm planning on setting my mode to AV because my family doesn't want to stop for pictures anymore. So, would f8 be a good place to start?

Should I turn on the flash for fill?

Thanks for any advice.

Fill flash depends on the situation. If you are standing on Main Street and want a photo of the castle, then your flash won't help.

If you are taking a photo of someone 5 feet in front of you with the castle in the background, then yes to using flash as a fill light.

 

[boBQuincy]

Since you know what f/2.8 and Av mean then you are well out of the "photography idiot" stage!

Assuming the "sunny day" rule still holds true (and it does) then a basic sunny day exposure is 1/ISO @ f/16. At ISO 100 this gives us 1/100 @ f/16 or 1/3200 @ f/2.8, and all the steps in between. One question I have is the reason for using f/2.8 all day. It is not the setting where the lens is the sharpest, f/8 usually is, and unless we want minimum depth of field or we just don't have much light there is little reason to use f/2.8.

Another point to remember is when we use fill flash we are limited to the flash sync speed, usually 1/200 or slower (unless we have an external flash with high speed sync). This will dictate a smaller aperture for most daylight photos, usually much smaller than f/8. How about "P" mode to make this much easier?

 

[ukcatfan]

One very important thing to consider when using fill flash is that the fastest shutter will be around 1/200 to 1/250, depending on your camera. At f/2.8, that might over expose the shot. You should adjust the aperture to get the DOF you want, not just leave it on one setting. Also, any lens is not at its sharpest when wide open, so you are not getting the most out of it If you do not need the shallow DOF in the shot.

 

[ukcatfan]

Double post

 

[disneyboy2003]

I'm a photography idiot so I keep asking questions! Have patience with me. Someday it might click.

I'm heading to Disney in a month and expect to be taking pictures in full sun. It's been overcast in New England for what seems like forever so I can get away with taking pictures at f2.8 but I'm anticipating that f2.8 in the Florida sun will lead to a very overexposed picture. I'm planning on setting my mode to AV because my family doesn't want to stop for pictures anymore. So, would f8 be a good place to start?

Should I turn on the flash for fill?

Thanks for any advice.

Hmmm...at first glance, it kinda makes sense that using a larger aperture (ex. f/2.8) in sunny Florida would give overexposed photos.

However, aperture is not the only thing that affects the exposure of a photo. If you'll recall, there are 3 elements of the exposure triangle: aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. Each of these 3 elements interact with each other to give you the final exposure of a photo.

So if you use a large aperture of f/2.8, you'd probably choose a very very fast shutter speed in order to achieve a properly-exposed photo. At f/2.8 in the bright sunlight, you'd probably use shutter speeds like 1/1000 - 1/4000 sec.

In fact, if you use Av mode (aperture priority) and set the camera to f/2.8, the camera will automatically choose these very very fast shutter speed in sunny Florida.

What's the downside to using f/2.8 all the time? Well, the depth of field is probably going to be very small. So if you're taking photos of your family in front of the castle, your family will be in focus, but the castle will be artistically blurry.

Setting your aperture at f/8, especially on brighter days, can be a good idea. With smaller apertures, such as f/8, you'd get more depth of field, so more of the scene is in focus.

In fact, for decades, the photojournalist mantra was "f/8 and be there," meaning that the aperture of f/8 is a nice, generic, all-purpose aperture for capturing a bright scene, without having to worry about shutter speed or ISO.


Yes, and use fill flash if your subject is located close to you (within several feet) and has unwanted shadows or is in the shade.

 

[Gianna'sPapa]

My Disney walk-around lens is a 28-70 f2.8, but in the daytime I never shoot @ 2.8. Usually, I'm in f8-f11. That is where the lens is the sharpest and I get the DOF I'm looking for. The harsh sunlight and shadows of the Florida sun tend to wreak havoc with me. If (and its a big if), I recognize the shadowing, I will throw my external flash on. With my lens hood on that lens, the onboard flash gets shadowing at the bottom of the image. My rig tends to get heavy, with the larger lens, vertical grip and external flash! Its the price I pay, so I guess I shouldn't complain to much.

 

[photo_chick]

If you really feel the need to shoot wide open and it's really bright you can always consider a neutral density filter. It's like putting sunglasses on your camera.

I'm with everyone else, wondering why you'd stick to f/2.8 though. If it's for depth of field also remember that focal length and distance to subject can be used to manipulate depth of field as well.

 

[PrincessInOz]

I'm a photography idiot so I keep asking questions! Have patience with me. Someday it might click.

I'm heading to Disney in a month and expect to be taking pictures in full sun. It's been overcast in New England for what seems like forever so I can get away with taking pictures at f2.8 but I'm anticipating that f2.8 in the Florida sun will lead to a very overexposed picture. I'm planning on setting my mode to AV because my family doesn't want to stop for pictures anymore. So, would f8 be a good place to start?

Should I turn on the flash for fill?

Thanks for any advice.

In the time between now and going to Florida, I suggest that you try taking the camera out during the day and just take some shots, if you haven't already done so.
Set the camera to AV mode. For each location you take a picture, set the aperture or f-stop to:
1. f/2.8 and take a picture.
2. Then set the aperture to f/8 and take a shot from the same spot.
3. If you feel like doing a further shot, I recommend that you set the aperture to f/16 and take another shot.

If the subject in any of the pictures looks dark to you, then try using your flash and take the shot again.

Don't tell any of the semi-pro's or pro's on this board ....but sometimes, I even set the camera to an automatic mode to check out what settings the camera is using. And then I take it from there and work it out for what I want in manual mode. I'm usually changing the aperture setting towards f/8 - f/11 to get more of the subject in focus, especially during the daytime.

You don't have to go to multiple locations - just your local town and take some shots of the building or people in the street. Try taking the pictures from different times of day.

When you go home, take a look at the shots and work out which ones you prefer. Hopefully, there will be a bunch of shots that you like in one of the settings you've used. That should tell you where to set the camera as a starting point when you're at the World.

For what it's worth, in the last year that I've been taking pictures, I've learnt that during sunny conditions, I should set the f-stop to anywhere from f/5.6 to f/16. I've only recently learnt about the sunny 16 rule that another poster pointed out and I've been trying to take shots using that rule. For me, I think the sunny 16 rule works best at about 11.30 am - 2.30 pm on a brilliant blue sky day.

You haven't mentioned if the f/2.8 lens you have is a prime or if it is a zoom (and how wide). If you want to use f/2.8, then this may be a good setting for the inside rides, depending on your ISO capabilities of the camera (and how steady you can hold it).

Have fun and I hope to see some of your Disney shots on the boards.

 

[MinnieForMe]

Hi;
Thank you (everyone) for taking the time to explain your responses to me.

My lens is a zoom 28-75 f2.8 and it has become my everyday lens. I purchased it for indoor shots of the kids (band, sports etc.) and I'm getting happier and happier with my results.

I'm only planning on carrying two lenses with me to Disney. The 28-75 and the 55-300. I find that I normally shoot at the larger end closer to 75 mm.

I'm soooo nervous about messing up all my pictures this year. I still haven't tried P mode but I promise I will this weekend. Also, if it would ever warm up here in NH (we are still 10 degrees below normal plus tons of wind), I'd get outside and practice like an above poster suggested.

Thanks again. It's all starting to make sense but I have to admit everytime I think I understand, I find a "new rule" that changes my way of thinking and totally confuses me. LOL.

 

[boBQuincy]

Ok, it's myth busting time and the Manual mode is our subject for today. Everyone knows that the real pros and those who really know photography use Manual mode because it will give the best exposures. Oh, really?
So we look at our scene and decide we want f/8 for maximum sharpness from our lens. We set the aperture to f/8 and look at the little meter in the viewfinder, adjusting the shutter speed dial until the pointer aligns with the flashing mark. Alright, perfect exposure (it happens to be 1/125 second). We smugly smile as the newbies and semi-newbies around us take their photos in Auto and Program modes, with a few of the more enlightened ones using Av or Tv. But even then they are not going to get as good an exposure as us! Or are they?

The Av people set their aperture to f/8 and lo and behold, their cameras set the shutter for 1/125, same as our brilliantly done manual exposure! The Tv people set their shutter speed to 1/125 and their cameras set the aperture to f/8! How can this be? Worse yet, the Program and Auto people set *nothing* yet their cameras also choose f/8 at 1/125! The fact is the camera uses the same meter for *all* exposure modes and by using Manual and matching the little pointers all we have done is waste time and effort to get the same exposure as everyone else, the exposure the camera will set on it's own. Our smug smile quickly fades as the newbies take five (perfectly exposed) photos in the time it takes us to set up for one.

The point is, if we just want to follow what the meter indicates we are much better off using one of the auto or semi-auto modes. Oh, but we can set the pointers to something other than matching, like a stop more. Yeah, and so can exposure compensation yet it can still track the light *much* faster than we can manually. With rare exception, there is no valid exposure that Manual can set that can't be done in one of the Auto modes!!!

And what about those "rare exceptions"? Fireworks, where the dark sky will throw off the metering, and in this case we don't use the meter for Manual either, we set exposure according to experience and taste. There are more exceptions, but not many.

To be fair and honest, Auto and Program do not always set the exposure as we wish. Those modes use a lookup table for exposure values (see your manual) and set exposure accordingly, often biased towards shutter speed (to keep newbies from using too slow a shutter speed and getting blurred photos). However, if we do not like the settings the camera has chosen we can shift the settings to select any aperture or shutter speed, all while still keeping the same basic exposure value! Pretty slick, and very fast!

Even after all this some will still insist Manual is better. Yeah, so are carburetors, vinyl records, and film…

 

[m-tinkerbelle]

Ok, it's myth busting time and the Manual mode is our subject for today. Everyone knows that the real pros and those who really know photography use Manual mode because it will give the best exposures. Oh, really?
So we look at our scene and decide we want f/8 for maximum sharpness from our lens. We set the aperture to f/8 and look at the little meter in the viewfinder, adjusting the shutter speed dial until the pointer aligns with the flashing mark. Alright, perfect exposure (it happens to be 1/125 second). We smugly smile as the newbies and semi-newbies around us take their photos in Auto and Program modes, with a few of the more enlightened ones using Av or Tv. But even then they are not going to get as good an exposure as us! Or are they?

The Av people set their aperture to f/8 and lo and behold, their cameras set the shutter for 1/125, same as our brilliantly done manual exposure! The Tv people set their shutter speed to 1/125 and their cameras set the aperture to f/8! How can this be? Worse yet, the Program and Auto people set *nothing* yet their cameras also choose f/8 at 1/125! The fact is the camera uses the same meter for *all* exposure modes and by using Manual and matching the little pointers all we have done is waste time and effort to get the same exposure as everyone else, the exposure the camera will set on it's own. Our smug smile quickly fades as the newbies take five (perfectly exposed) photos in the time it takes us to set up for one.

The point is, if we just want to follow what the meter indicates we are much better off using one of the auto or semi-auto modes. Oh, but we can set the pointers to something other than matching, like a stop more. Yeah, and so can exposure compensation yet it can still track the light *much* faster than we can manually. With rare exception, there is no valid exposure that Manual can set that can't be done in one of the Auto modes!!!

And what about those "rare exceptions"? Fireworks, where the dark sky will throw off the metering, and in this case we don't use the meter for Manual either, we set exposure according to experience and taste. There are more exceptions, but not many.

To be fair and honest, Auto and Program do not always set the exposure as we wish. Those modes use a lookup table for exposure values (see your manual) and set exposure accordingly, often biased towards shutter speed (to keep newbies from using too slow a shutter speed and getting blurred photos). However, if we do not like the settings the camera has chosen we can shift the settings to select any aperture or shutter speed, all while still keeping the same basic exposure value! Pretty slick, and very fast!

Even after all this some will still insist Manual is better. Yeah, so are carburetors, vinyl records, and film…

great post BobQuincy! I try to shoot manual all the time but some pictures are worth taking them in P, S, A to not to miss the shot, specially on vacation I guess.

 

[disneyfaninaz]

This is a really informative thread! I have learned a lot just reading it. Personally, I have a Nikon D5000 and really like using the P mode, as I am most comfortable with setting ISOs, and the A mode, as I like to play with the DOF. But learning about the "Sunny Day" rule is very helpful.

 

[photo_chick]

Thank you for that post boBQuincy!

I'm an Av and Tv shooter myself. I've done my time with an all manual SLR. I paid good money for the electronics I have now and I'm gonna use them. 99% of the time they get the job done for me.

 

[boBQuincy]

Thank you for that post boBQuincy!

I'm an Av and Tv shooter myself. I've done my time with an all manual SLR. I paid good money for the electronics I have now and I'm gonna use them. 99% of the time they get the job done for me.

Yes indeed! I have spent many years with manual focus and manual exposure, I have paid my dues! Now the electronics can do the grunt work for me. With 35 exposure metering zones (even on my old Xsi) it should do a pretty good job (and like Photo Chick's meter it does about 99% of the time).

 

[bob100]

I'm one of those that uses manual mode with the flash in ETTL mode. The main reason is to control the mix of ambient and flash light. For me, using Av mode with flash can result in longer shutter speeds depending on the ambient light. I would suggest the OP practice with the flash in the back yard using different settings. Shooting at f2.8 in strong full sun could give you unintended consequences!