Can we talk about how bad FastPass+ is?

[rajak73]

We are adjusting to it....cancelling our trip,and going somewhere else!!

If FP+ is the only reason you are canceling a trip, you really didn't want to go anyway. How about Disney does FP+ like Universal...$129 for front of line passes? O wait, they are not good for 7DMT, Space Mountain, Anna and Elsa, BTMRR, Toy Story, TOT, RNRC, POTC, Haunted Mansion, etc, just good the C rides. I remember the uproar when they started to enforce the return times for FP-

 

[mesaboy2]

If FP+ is the only reason you are canceling a trip, you really didn't want to go anyway. How about Disney does FP+ like Universal...$129 for front of line passes? O wait, they are not good for 7DMT, Space Mountain, Anna and Elsa, BTMRR, Toy Story, TOT, RNRC, POTC, Haunted Mansion, etc, just good the C rides. I remember the uproar when they started to enforce the return times for FP-

Um, no.

 

[Squidgyness]

If FP+ is the only reason you are canceling a trip, you really didn't want to go anyway.

How dare you. I appreciate that people will have different opinions on fastpass plus and I reespect that, something that you can't seem to do in this post.

You don't know why someone does or does not go to Disney, and nor are you the arbitrator of what someone else thinks is or isn't a 'good' reason not to go. So don't sit there and snidely comment that those of us upset that a place that has given us some of the best experiences in our life has made a change which we dislike aren't genuine just because YOU don't dislike it and don't consider it the 'real' reason that we aren't going back.

If Disney hadn't made that change (incidentally something I agree wholeheartedly with the basic points in the op on) I would be selling a kidney, using black magic to convince my family to go one last time, begging, doing anything I could to get back there but I refuse to abandon my principles just to fill Disney's pockets, I don't want to plan rides, nor be penalised in any way for not doing so and so I will not go. It's not the sole reason but it IS the main one.

You can sit there and argue that you don't agree with my views, or perhaps that Disney isn't set up for that, or that it's just not possible in today's world and I might agree on some points. But don't sit there and suggest that you know I'm lying, that fastpass isn't really that important to me and it's not the main reason I or certain other people are choosing not to go back. Let me have my opinion and debate it respectfully, don't try to discount it.

I hope people will forgive me for not reading most of the pages in this topic as I felt I had to respond to such a post. Apologies if some found it strong or long (hey, that rhymes!), I have some pretty strong feelings on this topic I try to keep under control. I normally don't post here much, but I felt compelled to do so on this thread at least. I'm sure it will get locked at some point regardless, responses like the one above are hardly conducive to reasonable debate and there are plenty more on both sides. Sometimes common sense is as much lacking on these boards as it is in disneys boardroom.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It is interesting, if not frightening, to think about what rope drop at the MK would be like now if paper FP were still in place.

Rope Drop with Anna and Elsa was chaos under FP+ as well. It is no longer chaos because of the RD procedures Disney put in place to deal with it. But it was absolutely chaos prior to that. I don't think either FP system would really change that (in either direction - better or worse). The videos that were out with the insanity going down Main Street earlier this year were crazy. And that was before the Mine Train was open too. Disney had to put stricter RD procedures in place to deal with it, and that is what's responsible for it not being a mass of insanity every morning.

 

[SeilerBird]

I am a local with an AP and I go to WDW 3 or 4 times a week and I love the FP+ system. I use it every day.

There is a simple solution for the haters, don't use the system. Go stand in long boring lines instead.

 

[Burnedout]

I am a local with an AP and I go to WDW 3 or 4 times a week and I love the FP+ system. I use it every day.

There is a simple solution for the haters, don't use the system. Go stand in long boring lines instead.

Ridiculous. Yes that is the only other option currently. But people have the right not to like it and the express their opinions. "Haters" is such a lovely term. It is as lovely as saying that those who like it are apologists who drink the kookaid. Rude on all sides.

Eta. If I were going 4 times a week it would be easy to not care if I do or don't get to do something. I also wouldn't have spent two hours trying to figure out to link us all correctly together.

Comparing to the average traveler is apples to oranges.

 

[mesaboy2]

I am a local with an AP and I go to WDW 3 or 4 times a week and I love the FP+ system. I use it every day.

There is a simple solution for the haters, don't use the system. Go stand in long boring lines instead.

So very constructive.

 

[flicx]

We didn't know you could hoard fp- so we just collected and used. And loved it. So it isn't just the hoarders that wish the old system was still in place.

We did the same thing. We always returned on time with the old system then got our next fastpass some where else. I wish the old system was still in place. I will also say this, the new system is definitely affecting our decision not to go right now.

 

[itchin2go]

I refuse to abandon my principles just to fill Disney's pockets, I don't want to plan rides, nor be penalised in any way for not doing so and so I will not go. It's not the sole reason but it IS the main one.

Full disclosure: I have not yet used FP+ in the parks (but I have gone through the booking process), and again, I don't think the old system was "broke", and I'd rather be dealing with that one ... business as usual.

But I have to say, I don't GET your point of view on any level. If you "don't want to plan rides", then don't. FP is not mandatory.

If you don't want to plan rides, then I'm assuming you didn't pull old school FPs, because that required planning on some level. Sure, not 60 days ahead of time, but advance planning, nonetheless. It wasn't 100% spontaneous.

If you "don't want to be penalized for not doing so", well, ok, but you do know it's just 3 rides, right? All the other family next to you will have on you is 3 rides, at the most. In the case of Epcot, for instance, we will only be keeping one of our FPs, so all we'd have on you is Soarin (which we could easily do at rope drop like we usually do ... without any sort of FP).

I 100% don't get it. If having the option to book FP in advance means that someone doesn't want to go to WDW, then I see what the PP was getting at. How bad did you really want to go if the thing that tips the scales is that you CAN (but don't have to) choose 3 fastpasses in advance?

Respectfully, I don't see why the "I-don't-want-to-plan-that-far-in-advance" folks don't just see that there's really no DOWNSIDE to going ahead and booking what you can. Use them or don't. Maybe you get to the park and don't feel like doing Peter Pan at 10:45. No one is going to to die. Just don't do it.

I get being unhappy about the new system. I have been too. I just don't get the vehemence.

 

[minnie mum]

If FP+ is the only reason you are canceling a trip, you really didn't want to go anyway.-

If I was to tell you what I really thought about this presumptuous and disrespectful post I would likely be hammered by the mods. Thankfully Squidgyness saved me the trouble. J dont mind the give and take of a polite debate or reading opposing opinions; but being rudely dismissive is uncalled for.

 

[mom2rtk]

Or they've discovered how to make it work better for their touring style and don't hate it as much?

You should never make assumptions.

(1) You can ride anything as many times in a row as you want to. Have people forgotten about standby?

Oh yes.....that lovely standby line. The one that now accounts for somewhere between 10 and 30% of each ride's capacity for the day. Feel free to use it if you want to watch 70-90% of the ride's capacity pass you by.

 

[ajfd]

I wish the old system was still in place. I will also say this, the new system is definitely affecting our decision not to go right now.

Actually, you wish the old system was in place and that relatively few guests were using it ... which is exactly how all of us experienced FP-. I enjoyed that time, too, but it is gone.

As I mentioned a few pages ago, the technology of FP+ isn't causing many of the concerns people have... it is the fact that there are so many more people using FP now.

FP doesn't change capacity, it just pulls people from the SB into the FP line. The result is that SB times must increase.

Even if Disney never converted to FP+ but instead was able to get the usage of paper FP up to what FP+ is now the complaints on these boards would be very similar to today.

I will also say this, the new system is definitely affecting our decision not to go right now.

And that's OK. I was in a similar position earlier in the year. I was really questioning how FP+ would affect the value of our entertainment dollar. In the end, I don't think the net value changed much, which can be seen as good or bad. But that is something each family needs to decide for itself.

 

[minnie mum]

You should never make assumptions.



Oh yes.....that lovely standby line. The one that now accounts for somewhere between 10 and 30% of each ride's capacity for the day. Feel free to use it if you want to watch 70-90% of the ride's capacity pass you by.

I agree. Standby lines have changed markedly since FP+ began. With legacy fastpasses there were a lot of popular attractions that had no FP and short lines. Now most of the rides worth riding have fp+ and standby lines have seen exponential increases in wait times. So the dismissive reply of "if you dont like fp+ just use the standby line" is no solution. In fact, what fp+ has done to standby lines is just another of the complaints I have about fp+.

 

[Shaden]

Full disclosure: I have not yet used FP+ in the parks (but I have gone through the booking process), and again, I don't think the old system was "broke", and I'd rather be dealing with that one ... business as usual.

But I have to say, I don't GET your point of view on any level. If you "don't want to plan rides", then don't. FP is not mandatory.

If you don't want to plan rides, then I'm assuming you didn't pull old school FPs, because that required planning on some level. Sure, not 60 days ahead of time, but advance planning, nonetheless. It wasn't 100% spontaneous.

If you "don't want to be penalized for not doing so", well, ok, but you do know it's just 3 rides, right? All the other family next to you will have on you is 3 rides, at the most. In the case of Epcot, for instance, we will only be keeping one of our FPs, so all we'd have on you is Soarin (which we could easily do at rope drop like we usually do ... without any sort of FP).

I 100% don't get it. If having the option to book FP in advance means that someone doesn't want to go to WDW, then I see what the PP was getting at. How bad did you really want to go if the thing that tips the scales is that you CAN (but don't have to) choose 3 fastpasses in advance?

Respectfully, I don't see why the "I-don't-want-to-plan-that-far-in-advance" folks don't just see that there's really no DOWNSIDE to going ahead and booking what you can. Use them or don't. Maybe you get to the park and don't feel like doing Peter Pan at 10:45. No one is going to to die. Just don't do it.

I get being unhappy about the new system. I have been too. I just don't get the vehemence.

You are really overlooking the impacts of this system

There is a HUGE downside to going, and not using FP+ That didn't exist before FP+ was in place.

You are penalized if you don't use it, the SB lines for MANY rides have increased (an no, its not due to increased attendance).

Now, is it possible to go, and still have a good time, and not use FPs or not use the ones you booked ? Sure it is. But the value of your trip, by many metrics, has decreased. You are going to spend more time in line, and less time on rides.

CAN you still get a ton done under this system ? Does RD help ? Of course on both accounts. But in general its going to take either more planning, more effort/strategizing/stressing than it did before. Its going to take more out of you, and at the same time more money, to accomplish the same thing you did in the past, all things held equal.

Moreover the purpose of FP+ makes a principled stance against it more than understandable. Its not to make your or my trip better, its to make us spend more money. Whether that is locking us in to our trips further out, or whisking us through a few lines to spend more time in shops (and coincidentally probably stopping us from getting in other, now longer, lines) this is all about squeezing more money out of the visitor, instead of investing in the things that really would have improved our vacations.

 

[mh1973]

I am in the middle of my first trip with FastPass+ only (when I was here last November you had the FastPass+ as well as the old system).

This makes me really sad because the original FastPass system was very well designed. Furthermore, I really miss the fact that a Disney vacation used to be something magical you could enjoy without planning every single second of your vacation months in advance.

The MagicBands are wonderful, but the FastPass+ system is abysmal. This is the New Coke of Disney. This is a staggeringly bad idea and even worse implementation.

1) Too control freak. From observing the system and talking to Disney cast members about it, there is a philosophy of controlling how people want to enjoy their vacation. This is unacceptable. Some things I have been told:

"People were only riding the same attraction multiple times, or would go to a park and only ride a couple favorite attractions and leave."

Yeah... so? You mean people were happy and doing the things they enjoy? It is their money and their vacation.

2) Spontaneity is being destroyed and replaced by making vacation feel like a job. I understand that some people like to plan things in advance. That's fine. But the entire park should not be designed to require that.

3) Micromanagement feels like a job. The complexity and limitations along with the reliance on limited kiosks + smart phone app makes this feel like work, not vacation.

4) Lines and waits are much longer. There may be a number of reasons why this happens. I suspect one reason is people are riding crap they don't really want to ride just to burn through their first 3 FP+ and then be allowed to FP with a little more freedom (or FP the same attraction).

5) People are even more stressed. Watching and talking to people they are even more stressed out than ever about when and what they can ride. This is connected to #1, #2, #3, and #4.

6) Stop and smell the roses? Ain't nobody got time for that! I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date! Stopping to look at flowers, watch a street show, take a cool photo, sit down to talk or people watch, or anything fun and unstructured barely exists now. You're constantly on a schedule. I am using the same software I use at work to keep track of where I need to be at what time. Miserable. My vacation experience is the same as being at work.

7) Slave to the smartphone, like at work. I have to check my smartphone many times a day to keep things on track and reschedule things if needed. Of course every time I check there are work email notifications I see that are then harder to avoid. This again makes vacation feel like work. Terrible.

8) ??? I'm only scratching the surface here.

Does Disney know how despised this system is?

Is there any hope of it either being dumped or massively overhauled?

I posted something very similar yesterday. It almost makes me want to spend my vacation dollars elsewhere.

 

[itchin2go]

You are really overlooking the impacts of this system

There is a HUGE downside to going, and not using FP+ That didn't exist before FP+ was in place.

You are penalized if you don't use it, the SB lines for MANY rides have increased (an no, its not due to increased attendance).

Now, is it possible to go, and still have a good time, and not use FPs or not use the ones you booked ? Sure it is. But the value of your trip, by many metrics, has decreased. You are going to spend more time in line, and less time on rides.

CAN you still get a ton done under this system ? Does RD help ? Of course on both accounts. But in general its going to take either more planning, more effort/strategizing/stressing than it did before. Its going to take more out of you, and at the same time more money, to accomplish the same thing you did in the past, all things held equal.

Moreover the purpose of FP+ makes a principled stance against it more than understandable. Its not to make your or my trip better, its to make us spend more money. Whether that is locking us in to our trips further out, or whisking us through a few lines to spend more time in shops (and coincidentally probably stopping us from getting in other, now longer, lines) this is all about squeezing more money out of the visitor, instead of investing in the things that really would have improved our vacations.

A few things:

(1) If you go and don't use it, that's on you. Any downside to that decision is yours to own.

(2) It is my understanding (purely from reading info on the internet) that standby lines for less popular rides have increased, while standby lines for higher demand rides have decreased. I concede that this requires a different way of touring (and again, I'd rather go back to old school FP!), but I don't think it's all bad news.

(3) Maybe Disney did do this to get the average guest to spend more money. So what? Do I wish they invested more in customer happiness and less in manipulation of us? Yes, but it's a business. Their bottom line is always going to matter. And frankly, I'm not that easily manipulated. I have a budget for my vacation and I'm not going to spend more or less than I did last year. So why would I get myself worked up over what Disney's intentions are?

 

[lugnut33]

Under FP+, as well as many other decisions, I have seen an erosion in the value I'm getting for the money I'm spending. Sure, I may not be spending more, but I'm getting less. And I've never understood the argument that since Disney is a for profit business it's OK to give the customer less so management can make bigger bonuses.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

FP+ is not bad. I've experienced it for 2 trips and have NO problem with it.

 

[wisblue]

Under FP+, as well as many other decisions, I have seen an erosion in the value I'm getting for the money I'm spending. Sure, I may not be spending more, but I'm getting less. And I've never understood the argument that since Disney is a for profit business it's OK to give the customer less so management can make bigger bonuses.

It's too bad that Disney can't be like other types of entertainment where what you get for a dollar steadily goes up. Like those lower prices for movies, concerts, sporting events, pay TV, etc., etc. The folks in those businesses are in it purely for the joy of providing entertainment to their customers, not making money.

 

[Shaden]

It's too bad that Disney can't be like other types of entertainment where what you get for a dollar steadily goes up. Like those lower prices for movies, concerts, sporting events, pay TV, etc., etc. The folks in those businesses are in it purely for the joy of providing entertainment to their customers, not making money.

You mean places that, while their prices go up, what they offer isn't decreased ? That in fact actually compete and occasionally drive down prices ? Places that when their prices go up, relatively speaking, have prices increasing as prices generally increase, like inflation type stuff ? Unlike Disney, who offers less, but where prices have sky rocketed, FAR beyond the rate of inflation. A company that sells itself as "making dreams come true" ... not "squeezing people until they pop, and making such dreams unaffordable for most people" ???

Or do you mean other entertainment industries, like video games, of which many have switched to a free to play model, or Tech companies like TVs etc, which continue to come down in price, or Mobile devices that for whom prices are relatively stagnant, but continue to innovate and offer their customers more and more for the same price ... ???

Sorry, what were you saying again