Can we share 4 day park hoppers?

[ShaneV]

Not really,
according to your previous statement they shouldnt have LOS for Ultimate profit.

You go stay on site buy 7 day hoppers, use 5 days then you come back stay on site again because you have 2 days left.

I always buy Hoppers even when I stay on site as I usually take an off day while there, and come back home with a day or 2 left on them.

 

[luvindisneyworld]

i think this thread has turned into something totally ridiculous,get over it everybody has stated their opinions and thats that.the Op will make up her own mind and noone can change that. she said herself that her DH boss has not even went yet and dont even know whether there will be anything to it or not.
so just get over it and get along, there is a whole lot worse going on in our country that we need to be worrying about, like maybe the threat of war.
misty

 

[kevind65]

Golter & Sha_lyn,
I think we all agree & understand that 2 different people using the same park hopper pass at different times is against disney policy. It is however, not against any law; that is also clear. The law states that selling partially used park hopper passes or giving them away to make commercial gain is illegal. giving them away to a friend or family member, although against disney policy, is not illegal, nor is it immoral in any way.

As for disney losing lots of money by people doing this: you have failed to present your case in a logical manner. The bottom line is disney sells a 4 day php and commits itself to allowing 1 guest into its park for 4 days, whether it be over a 4 day period or over a ten year period. no matter who uses the ticket, it will still result 1 person in disney's park for 4 days with 4 days being paid for.

You make the comment that it's not the same as an opera ticket or baseball game because those venues sell only a finite amount of tickets. The same arguement can be applied to disney: do they not have park capacity levels to which they cannot allow admittance to any more guests? therefore disney also has a finite amount of tickets they can realistically sell each day as well. That is what borders on "theft by deception" to me: potentially selling 40,000 tickets to a park that has a 25,000 person capacity.

the amount of days or length of tickets you purchase is really irrelevent as disney does not offer a substantial discount for purchasing multi-day tickets when compared to the price of single day admissions. thus, disney doesn't really lose money because someone gave away a ticket. they committed themselves to that admission when they sold the ticket in the first place. no matter how you slice it, disney will end up selling 1 ticket per day to each guest, so how are they losing money?

Sha_lyn: by stating that you wouldn't do it because you dont "lie, cheat or steal"; you are inferring that someone who would do it would be "lying, cheating or stealing".

At any rate, I think sometimes people get way to hung up on the small print. Although it's against disney's stated policy; it clearly is a practice that is usual and expected and the law and policy were intended mainly to protect consumers from unscrupolus ticket venders and scalpers and not to prevent me from giving the remaining two days of my park hopper to my brother or friend.

And yes, I do understand the difference between unused and partially used php's...economically and businesswise it has no impact to disney...I mainly took offense to the morality issues.

 

[Golter]

I cannot go on, I must jump out the window of my office building. JJ, this is a fun topic to debate. No one really thinks that if you used a partially used ticket your going to jail. People do it everyday and they are good people. I will not change my mind though. It IS against the law to do it though. When you purchase a ticket from Disney you enter into an implied contract. The ticket is intended for you to be the only user of the ticket. If you violate the contract it is against the law and Disney, if they wanted to (which the probably never would) could sue you.

Your arguement that disney sold 4 days and it shouldn't care who uses the tickets is hogwash, if that were the case than with each AP they are selling 365 days and they wouldn't care who is using them.

Nobody is passing moral judgement.

 

[sha_lyn]

You make the comment that it's not the same as an opera ticket or baseball game because those venues sell only a finite amount of tickets. The same arguement can be applied to disney: do they not have park capacity levels to which they cannot allow admittance to any more guests? therefore disney also has a finite amount of tickets they can realistically sell each day as well. That is what borders on "theft by deception" to me: potentially selling 40,000 tickets to a park that has a 25,000 person capacity.

Actually it isn't the same because we are talking about multi day passes not sigle use tickets. No one has said it is agaisnt the law to sell or give away an unused WDW ticket.

It appears that that *non-transferable* falls into a legal and moral gray area, and we have to respect each others choices on how we, as individuals, elect to handle that!

How is "nontrasferable" a gray area. I do not understand how a clear company policy can be considered gray.

At the start of the thread the OP asked if it was OK. I stated that per WDW rules it was not. Many have argued it is OK. If they said it is not OK but you won't get caught that is one thing, but to state that breaking a WDW policy is OK is completely differnent. In fact, I take that as people really not caring about rules, laws, setting good examples etc. It is all about the ME ME ME mentality.

i think this thread has turned into something totally ridiculous,get over it everybody has stated their opinions and thats that

Well WDW rules/policies are not an opinion. Is an opinion that disreguards a policy/rule/law just an opinion? To say you believe it should be OK to give away or sell particially used tickets is one thing,but to contradict WDW poliices and say it is OK is completely different.

 

[trepka1440]

does this mean that i can't purchase tickets for my wife and children??? and that i should give my 11 y/o a couple hundred $$ to purchase his own ticket???

 

[ivanova]

does this mean that i can't purchase tickets for my wife and children??? and that i should give my 11 y/o a couple hundred $$ to purchase his own ticket???

No because you are not talking about partially used tickets.

For you to buy all the tickets for your family and then hand them out to each family member is not the issue.

Once the ticket is used at least once, the hotly debated question is whether a different individual can use any of the unused days on the pass - whether you GIVE the pass to that individual or SELL it to them.

I think everyone agrees that the sale of partially used park hopper passes is in fact illegal and prosecutable.

Where the opinions divide is on whether the Disney policy is meant to apply to the GIVING of unused days to other individuals.

 

[luvindisneyworld]

sha-lyn we get that you dont agree,some do agree, i guess it is time to say its time to agree to disagree. you cannot enforce the rules so dont get all tore up over it.

 

[luvindisneyworld]

Oh BTW i did not say anything about agreeing that it was right to SELL partially used tickets,where did that come from?

 

[AKASnowWhite]

Originally posted by sha_lyn
How is "nontrasferable" a gray area. I do not understand how a clear company policy can be considered gray.

Because *nontransferable* taken completely literally, would mean that you could NOT give an unused ticket as a gift, nor could I purchase tickets for my family. Each person would have to, then, purchase their own ticket.

Then comes the Florida state statute. If you are giving a ticket, with NO INTENTION of gain, as in no money exchanged, no *favors*, no promise of promotion....simply a GIFT with no expectations of any return (except perhaps a THANK YOU) where is the commercial gain?!?!?

I understand that your personal issue is with partially used tickets, not brand-new, unused ones. However, *nontransferable* is (or maybe ISN'T) *nontransferable* is it not? That's where I think the *gray* area comes in. It isn't illegal, by the letter of the law. Perhaps Disney's policy is such that they want people to BELIEVE that they can't *share* tickets, but, IMO, that is something they won't really be able to enforce.

As I said before, this is an issue where we will never all agree. So, let's respect each others differences of opinion.

 

[kevind65]

Golter,
The issue is completely different with respect to AP's. As a AP can be used for 365 days; it substantially reduces the per day price down to less than $1.50 per day! completely different!! not even in the same park(pun intended)!

 

[MacDalton]

Somehow, I always open my big mouth and start a debate! I didn't realize this topic would be that big of a deal to so many people. Please rest assured that I am in no way trying to get something for nothing or defraud Disney. A guy offered, I just thought I better check to make sure because if there is a name printed on the ticket I would not represent nor would I allow my family to represent themselves as another person. I want to be honest about where the tickets came from. I love Disney but I would not lie cheat or steal to get there. Sha-lyn, some of your comments made some people feel defensive. I guess it was just the tone of your text, so to speak. Please understand that I have no intention, nor do most of the others here, to be anything less than honest and moral. A guy offered free tickets-nothing evil there. By the way, he is not my DH's boss, just an "equal". I sure would like to change the subject and talk about something less controversial! How does everyone feel about people who save spots in line for others? Ha Ha! I was just kidding, please don't anyone answer that!!! Seriously, thank you everyone for your advice, kindness, and patience. Now, lets get back to the magic!!

 

[sha_lyn]

As you can tell by reading my first post, I answered MacDalton's question as to what is WDW policy. OK so I said I don't lie cheat or still, but I still don't get why that is offensive to anyone when people have said "sure it is wrong but you can get away with it". If nothing is wrong with it then what is there to get away with? Is it not offensive to anyone other than me for people to say it is OK to break rules if you can get away with it? What upset me was not your question MacDalton (and I have not judged you), it was those who came here and said it was ok, knowing that it is agasint WDW policy. I still stand by my opinion that by using a particially used ticket that bears the words "non transferrable" that the user is representing themselves as the origional user.




As for

Please understand that I have no intention, nor do most of the others here, to be anything less than honest and moral.

I understand you were only asking what is the policy. I can't agree on the "most others" part since many others find nothing wrong with breaking the WDW rules. Sorry I don't see anything honest or moral about that.

Because *nontransferable* taken completely literally, would mean that you could NOT give an unused ticket as a gift, nor could I purchase tickets for my family. Each person would have to, then, purchase their own ticket.

HELLO ... there is a difference between a new and a particially used ticket. Until used the first time there isn't a person "using" the ticket. So there is no one to transfer use of the ticket. I really can't beleve that anyone doesn't understand the difference.
Well maybe a repeat of Florida Law will make it more clear

Florida Statutes

817.361. Resale of multiday or multievent ticket

Whoever offers for sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction, with or without consideration, any nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium designed for admission to more than one amusement location or other facility offering entertainment to the general public, or for admission for more than 1 day thereto, after said ticket or other medium has been used at least once for admission, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. A nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium is one on which is clearly printed the phrase: "Nontransferable; must be used by the same person on all days" or words of similar import. Upon conviction for a second or subsequent violation of this subsection, such person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

This Statute clearly defines what non transferrable means and that it pertains to tickets that have already been used once (or more)for admission. How can that be taken as literally meaning that anyone can not purchase tickets for their family members?
I could almost see how one could argue that it doesn't pertain to tickets given away to friends, relatives etc but as you can see from the parts that I highlighten, that it (meaning nontransferrable) most likely means that park tickets must be used by the same person for all days reguardless of how the ticket is obtained. It does sound however that a crime would not be commited if no money or business transaction (ie time share presentation) took place.

 

[drogerstn]

WDW has deemed the park hoppers nontransferable.

Florida law has stated that this relates to "...sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction..."

Therefore, the use of partially used park hoppers by friends or family members when the tickets are given to them (non-commercial transaction is not lying, cheating, or stealing.

End of debate.

 

[kevind65]

sha_lyn,
please read the law that you just posted: It clearly says that SELLING these tickets are against the law. not giving them to a friend or family member.

You keep saying that you're not calling anyone "liars, stealers or cheats", but, again you make references in this post questioning people honestly and so on. that is what has people upset with you. you have no right to judge anyone. your opinions are more than welcome, but keep your judgements to yourself please.

 

[The Sybah Shelstah]

I have to agree. I read the "law" she posted and in the first sentence it states sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction... THEN states the definition of transferring and once used yada yada.

That is the definining part of that law. It does not say you cannot GIVE AWAY, sale, sells, or transfers in any way shape or form. It only says if you sale, sells, or transfers IN CONNECTION WITH A COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION.

I highly doubt that Disney could possibly care if the person who used the ticket always uses it. If they did, they would certainly do the "print" thing they did with my PAP. That wouldn't be too hard for them to do. It's simple enough for them to do it with PAPs! And just think about it for a moment- if they were STRICT with the "only used by the first person that used this ticket" rule that you seem to be implying they have- do they really expect you to always keep up with who used what ticket even when the park hopper tickets NEVER expire?
Puhlease.
I have 4 tickets with one unused day on each. If you held a gun to my head there is NO WAY I could tell you which one my husband used, which one I used, and which one each of my children used. I don't think Disney expects you to keep up with that for the rest of your life until you use that ticket either.

With that said...

PHPs don't have a name printed on them

mine do- last name only.. but our last name IS on the back of the tickets. We purchased tickets in advance through disneyworld.com and they have our last names on the back of them. I would think that would make it hard to "give away" the tickets to someone else- but I still don't think that someone WITH that same last name (ie: me, my husband and our children) is supposed to still make sure they use the same ticket everytime. We sure didn't. I kept all 4 of the tickets in the little holder they gave us and just passed them out to each family member as we got up to the turnstile to go through. I did not keep up with which ticket was for which family member. Please get real.

 

[justhat]

Sha_lyn, it seems as though all of the protesting you have done about the illegality (or immorality, whatever you want to call it) is invalidated by your own quote of Florida law:

"Whoever offers for sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction, with or without consideration, any nontransferable ticket..."

This does not mention anything about giving away tickets to a friend or family member so how is it then immoral since it is not against Florida law. And since it was previously mentioned that this law was created specifically for Disney tickets, then it must not be against Disney law/policy otherwise they would have spelled that out, that giving is illegal too like sale, selling, or commercial transactions.

So since it is not considered wrong by the state of Florida, I hardly think that you or anyone else for that matter, should make people feel as though they are doing something wrong, since clearly they are not. Giving my remaining days to my sister would not be breaking Disney's rules, according to this law.

Also, someone said that 'non-transferable' is a gray area and you countered that it is not. Well, I agree that it is a gray area since once you buy a ticket, you own it, are in possession of it, etc. Therefore, you can 'transfer' the ticket by transferring ownership of it to someone else (say a spouse, child, friend, etc.). So how do you know that is not implied in 'non-transferable'? You don't but since it seems ridiculous you say that it must only be transferred after someone uses the ticket, however the tickets say "non-transferrable" not "non-transferrable after used only". And we know that according to the Florida law, it is only considered transferring if they are sold in a commercial transaction.

"Is it not offensive to anyone other than me for people to say it is OK to break rules if you can get away with it?"

Well, no one is breaking rules, according to your own post of Florida law. And honestly, have you never gone a mile over the speed limit? I'm sure you have at some point in your life and also that you probably considered it okay since you weren't stopped for speeding. Or have you been at a restaurant and not charged for a soda but paid the total on the bill and not pointed out the mistake? Gotten a sale price for something that was no longer on sale? If so, and I'm sure at least one of things has occurred to everyone at some point, then you were breaking a rule and getting away with us, so you shouldn't judge others about not even breaking a rule. And yes, I did find it to be offensive when in regards to my first post about being able to use the coworker's tickets you replied that you do not 'lie, cheat, or steal" as this implied that I regularly do all of these things and that I am some sort of horrible, immoral person.

 

[WDW2000]

It's as simple as this:

You pay for the ticket, you can do whatever you want with it - it's yours!

 

[ilovefh]

Do they say non transferable? Yes. Will you get caught....odds are good no. And on a lot of passes they have no way of telling who actually used them the first day. Yes they have a record of where and when, but there is nothing on most passes identifying who they belong to.
And to the poster who purchased them in advance online and it came with their last name on it. That technically means nothing since you could be buying them for friends for a gift etc. (Unless they asked for the names of the people using that passes, I havent bought tickets online.)

Disney doesnt make it profits from ticket sales. They make it from souvenirs, food etc.

That being said Disney would be "technically" losing out on money. (In this situation alone) The OP is going to Disney whether or not she gets free passes from DH's coworker. So if she gets two passes for free she would not be spending money for two passes at Disney. Would I take free passes to Disney? Of course! Disney is expensive!

Now if I wasnt planning a trip to Disney for whatever reason and someone gave me free passes and I took a trip I wouldnt have taken....Disney would be making out well since the people who gave them to me would not be using them again (and they are already paid for), but I would and I would be spending money on hotels, food etc.

So yeah if he gets back and still offers them. Take them if you feel comfortable using them.

And for an example....Right now I am looking at a room card/ticket from 99 that still has days on it. Even though it is my pass it has my dads name on it (the name the ressie was made in). In the 19 years we went as a family my mom always kept all of the passes together so we wouldnt lose them. I'm sure we used eachothers a time or two. (But we did everything together, we didnt seperate)

 

[sha_lyn]

do you really not understand the differnece between WDW rules/polices and Law. Yes it is agaisnt the law to sell the tickets. Just because that particular law does not mention giving away tickets to friends does not mean you have the laws permission to breka WDW policies.

It's as simple as this:You pay for the ticket, you can do whatever you want with it - it's yours!

Oh no it is not that simple. It is against the law to sell them or give then away in a business transaction. It is agaisnt WDW policy for anyone but the origional user to use the ticket.

It really makes me sick how people want to justify breaking rules, policies or laws just to save a buck or 2.