Can spouse have child baptised/confirmed without consent of other parent?

[bluesaturn]

Actually she is gifted in art, and has won several awards for her artwork. It seemed she was missing a great deal of her art classes, and was upset about it. She was involved in the decision to leave the WRE classes.

That's great, but I didn't mean that in a snarky way. I meant that honestly, of course electives that you do value are going to be more important than CCD classes if you don't really believe in the religion.

 

[Mkrop]

Then you wouldn't put them in CCD in the first place, I would think.

My wife is a volunteer teacher at a large Catholic church, in fact First Communion has been going on these last few weeks. They have classes once a week, sometimes two but not often. It's sad to hear how often parents put a sports event in front of religion, but not really surprising.

My mom has been a CCD teacher since I was little, her parish had to stop CCD classes before baseball got under way bc so many people would choose the sport over the religious ed classes, then parents whine when the child did not know the material and should not have been making the sacrament. It was sad that a second grader could not recite the simplest of Catholic prayers or explain anything about Communion bc their parents never did anything with them and then barely sent them to class but wanted them to wear the pretty white dress.

 

[westcoastwannabe]

The classes she was taken out of were public school Weekday Religious Education ones, not specifically Catholic. These are Christian classes that are once weekly and kids are taken off campus for them.

 

[of the seas]

Yep they sure can. Happened to me. My ex had my dd baptized with all his family there and no one from my family. Didn't tell m anything about it til about a week later. The thing that sucked most about it-besides me not being there to witness her first sacrament and not being able to pick the god parents-was the fact that my uncle is a priest and has baptized and married all of our family. And boy did I let my anger known. I called everyone from the priest who did it to my ex MIL.

 

[becauseisaid]

What you're interested in is Canon Law (as someone else mentioned). Here is a good spot to start looking for your answers.

Code of Canon Law

2 excerpts in regards to who can be baptized:
"there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason."

"Can. 869 §1. If there is a doubt whether a person has been baptized or whether baptism was conferred validly and the doubt remains after a serious investigation, baptism is to be conferred conditionally." <snip> "§3. If in the cases mentioned in §§1 and 2 the conferral or validity of the baptism remains doubtful, baptism is not to be conferred until after the doctrine of the sacrament of baptism is explained to the person to be baptized, if an adult, and the reasons of the doubtful validity of the baptism are explained to the person or, in the case of an infant, to the parents."

Technically, your child does not have to attend RCIA or any other previous classes in order to be baptized as, in the eyes of church, your child is considered an "infant". RCIA is generally reserved for persons over the age of 14.

"Can. 852 §1. The prescripts of the canons on adult baptism are to be applied to all those who, no longer infants, have attained the use of reason.

§2. A person who is not responsible for oneself (non sui compos) is also regarded as an infant with respect to baptism."

In reality, just about any preacher will want to talk with BOTH parents as well as a child who is as old as yours. The sacrament of baptism (nor any sacrament, for that matter) is never taken lightly by a priest. Baptism is a promise by the parents that a child will be raised with the religious beliefs of that church. If both parents do not make that promise, then it becomes an exercise in futility that most parish Fathers will not become a part of. Particularly if you have spoken with the parish Priest and made your will known.

I will say that I am sad you have decided to paint an entire religion based on what a few people have done. Not all Germans are sociopathic murderers despite the Third Reich. Not all air traffic controllers are taking naps during flight rush hour. And not all Catholic priests are preying on little boys. I would recommend that you speak with the local church's head priest to let them know of your objections to this baptism and to perhaps get a handle on what religious convictions you WOULD like to pass on to your daughter and how to achieve that.

 

[westcoastwannabe]

I will say that I am sad you have decided to paint an entire religion based on what a few people have done. Not all Germans are sociopathic murderers despite the Third Reich. Not all air traffic controllers are taking naps during flight rush hour. And not all Catholic priests are preying on little boys. I would recommend that you speak with the local church's head priest to let them know of your objections to this baptism and to perhaps get a handle on what religious convictions you WOULD like to pass on to your daughter and how to achieve that.

Not my goal, I do have German ancestry as well, and I don't feel at all sociopathic I have more of a problem with the coverup at higher levels than the individual actions of isolated priests. I do have a handle on what religious convictions I intend to pass on to my daughter. That is part of the issue at stake here.

 

[LuvOrlando]

No custody agreement, since no formal separation yet.
He switched churches to do this since it was obvious at his previous church that he did not attend Mass for the past 16 years.
He is doing this A) as a promise to his deceased mother
B) since I am opposed to it.
We had taken DD9 out of weekday religious classes at school since she was missing much loved electives to attend.
I am opposed to this due in part to exclusionary things like non-Catholics unable to take part in communion even though it is a Christian rite, and the previous history of the church in the pedophilia scandals, the Holocaust, etc. I'm biased on both of the last points due to allegations in the family of sexual abuse, and my own very diverse ethnic heritage.

Our teaching is distinctly different from other belief systems, it is not just a hunk of bread to us and that's why other's are excluded. Also, human beings are responsibly for the atrocities, not the Faith itself, and many millions of Catholics dies in the holocaust because they would not promise allegiance to Hilter before their church (I know a German Catholic woman personally who survived a camp and whose entire family was exterminated for this particular reason).

Fell free to dislike whomever you want for whatever reason you want but I don't really think sharing is a good idea because it shows how little you understand and that's offensive. I was perfectly fine to let you say you dislike it and leave it at that.

 

[westcoastwannabe]

Our teaching is distinctly different from other belief systems, it is not just a hunk of bread to us and that's why other's are excluded. Also, human beings are responsibly for the atrocities, not the Faith itself, and many millions of Catholics dies in the holocaust because they would not promise allegiance to Hilter before their church (I know a German Catholic woman personally who survived a camp and whose entire family was exterminated for this particular reason).

Fell free to dislike whomever you want for whatever reason you want but I don't really think sharing is a good idea because it shows how little you understand and that's offensive. I was perfectly fine to let you say you dislike it and leave it at that.

Ok. I understand things that have happened in my family. Including abuse by those in power in certain religious groups. And things relayed by survivors of atrocities, that involved certain religious groups. And I know not all of these groups are bad, that some were also persecuted, but I UNDERSTAND my own family history, however offensive that may be in and of itself. And no religion seems to be free of issues, so I am going to ask that this be closed, as I probably should have a few pages ago.

 

[Planogirl]

Ok. I understand things that have happened in my family. Including abuse by those in power in certain religious groups. And things relayed by survivors of atrocities, that involved certain religious groups. And I know not all of these groups are bad, that some were also persecuted, but I UNDERSTAND my own family history, however offensive that may be in and of itself. And no religion seems to be free of issues, so I am going to ask that this be closed, as I probably should have a few pages ago.

I think that you're wise to close this thread if you can. You're just insulting people now and I suspect that that was not your intention.

Good luck with your situation.

 

[FredinFL]

What you're interested in is Canon Law (as someone else mentioned). Here is a good spot to start looking for your answers.

Code of Canon Law

2 excerpts in regards to who can be baptized:
"there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason."

"Can. 869 §1. If there is a doubt whether a person has been baptized or whether baptism was conferred validly and the doubt remains after a serious investigation, baptism is to be conferred conditionally." <snip> "§3. If in the cases mentioned in §§1 and 2 the conferral or validity of the baptism remains doubtful, baptism is not to be conferred until after the doctrine of the sacrament of baptism is explained to the person to be baptized, if an adult, and the reasons of the doubtful validity of the baptism are explained to the person or, in the case of an infant, to the parents."

Technically, your child does not have to attend RCIA or any other previous classes in order to be baptized as, in the eyes of church, your child is considered an "infant". RCIA is generally reserved for persons over the age of 14.

"Can. 852 §1. The prescripts of the canons on adult baptism are to be applied to all those who, no longer infants, have attained the use of reason.

§2. A person who is not responsible for oneself (non sui compos) is also regarded as an infant with respect to baptism."

In reality, just about any preacher will want to talk with BOTH parents as well as a child who is as old as yours. The sacrament of baptism (nor any sacrament, for that matter) is never taken lightly by a priest. Baptism is a promise by the parents that a child will be raised with the religious beliefs of that church. If both parents do not make that promise, then it becomes an exercise in futility that most parish Fathers will not become a part of. Particularly if you have spoken with the parish Priest and made your will known.

I will say that I am sad you have decided to paint an entire religion based on what a few people have done. Not all Germans are sociopathic murderers despite the Third Reich. Not all air traffic controllers are taking naps during flight rush hour. And not all Catholic priests are preying on little boys. I would recommend that you speak with the local church's head priest to let them know of your objections to this baptism and to perhaps get a handle on what religious convictions you WOULD like to pass on to your daughter and how to achieve that.

Why is it that in every so called Mucho Importante Book In The World, or document even, there a pervasive reek of gobbledegook.

I don't remember that being a language option back in High School. I feel ripped off.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Wondering if my soon to be ex can have my daughter baptised, confirmed or become a member of the Catholic church without my consent? I am not a member of the church, and am opposed to it.
And, no, not an atheist, so that's not my opposition. I was raised Christian, but I am more concerned with the inherent goodness of a person versus whatever they call themselves= aka just because a cat has kittens in the oven, doesnt mean they are biscuits

She's 9. We are both in the "family" home, but I think this is all being done for show, since there was nothing done on his part before the subject of divorce came up. I was the one who took her to various churches (widespread beliefs in the immediate family) and he has not attended church since we were married 16 years ago.

Sorry, was going for more of a "can he do this?" than trying to incite a church riot I tend to find good answers here on the boards and thought there would be someone here who would know. Thanks

No custody agreement, since no formal separation yet.
He switched churches to do this since it was obvious at his previous church that he did not attend Mass for the past 16 years.
He is doing this A) as a promise to his deceased mother
B) since I am opposed to it.
We had taken DD9 out of weekday religious classes at school since she was missing much loved electives to attend.
I am opposed to this due in part to exclusionary things like non-Catholics unable to take part in communion even though it is a Christian rite, and the previous history of the church in the pedophilia scandals, the Holocaust, etc. I'm biased on both of the last points due to allegations in the family of sexual abuse, and my own very diverse ethnic heritage.

She has previously attended church with me at other churches, and with both of us at other churches. He is doing this since it is against my wishes. If I thought it genuinely came from his heart, my opposition would be minimal. Using her as a pawn is another matter. He is abusive, controlling, and has a criminal past I did not know about until fairly recently.

My mother and maternal grandparents were Catholic at one point. So I have some personal history there.
As for the church history, I'll just say "google", and leave it at that.
And I see this getting locked in the future, didn't intend a church debate, just "can he do this" and from my conversation with DD9 today it sounds like it is under duress.
Thanks to all who responded with advice and opinions.

Actually she is gifted in art, and has won several awards for her artwork. It seemed she was missing a great deal of her art classes, and was upset about it. She was involved in the decision to leave the WRE classes.

The classes she was taken out of were public school Weekday Religious Education ones, not specifically Catholic. These are Christian classes that are once weekly and kids are taken off campus for them.

What you're interested in is Canon Law (as someone else mentioned). Here is a good spot to start looking for your answers.

Code of Canon Law

2 excerpts in regards to who can be baptized:
"there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason."

"Can. 869 §1. If there is a doubt whether a person has been baptized or whether baptism was conferred validly and the doubt remains after a serious investigation, baptism is to be conferred conditionally." <snip> "§3. If in the cases mentioned in §§1 and 2 the conferral or validity of the baptism remains doubtful, baptism is not to be conferred until after the doctrine of the sacrament of baptism is explained to the person to be baptized, if an adult, and the reasons of the doubtful validity of the baptism are explained to the person or, in the case of an infant, to the parents."

Technically, your child does not have to attend RCIA or any other previous classes in order to be baptized as, in the eyes of church, your child is considered an "infant". RCIA is generally reserved for persons over the age of 14.

"Can. 852 §1. The prescripts of the canons on adult baptism are to be applied to all those who, no longer infants, have attained the use of reason.

§2. A person who is not responsible for oneself (non sui compos) is also regarded as an infant with respect to baptism."

In reality, just about any preacher will want to talk with BOTH parents as well as a child who is as old as yours. The sacrament of baptism (nor any sacrament, for that matter) is never taken lightly by a priest. Baptism is a promise by the parents that a child will be raised with the religious beliefs of that church. If both parents do not make that promise, then it becomes an exercise in futility that most parish Fathers will not become a part of. Particularly if you have spoken with the parish Priest and made your will known.

I will say that I am sad you have decided to paint an entire religion based on what a few people have done. Not all Germans are sociopathic murderers despite the Third Reich. Not all air traffic controllers are taking naps during flight rush hour. And not all Catholic priests are preying on little boys. I would recommend that you speak with the local church's head priest to let them know of your objections to this baptism and to perhaps get a handle on what religious convictions you WOULD like to pass on to your daughter and how to achieve that.

Not my goal, I do have German ancestry as well, and I don't feel at all sociopathic I have more of a problem with the coverup at higher levels than the individual actions of isolated priests. I do have a handle on what religious convictions I intend to pass on to my daughter. That is part of the issue at stake here.

Ok. I understand things that have happened in my family. Including abuse by those in power in certain religious groups. And things relayed by survivors of atrocities, that involved certain religious groups. And I know not all of these groups are bad, that some were also persecuted, but I UNDERSTAND my own family history, however offensive that may be in and of itself. And no religion seems to be free of issues, so I am going to ask that this be closed, as I probably should have a few pages ago.

I would believe the answer is yes he can get her baptized, and I also do believe he is doing it because of his promise to his mother, and I also believe from these posts, he is getting the better of you with it. At least that is what I see from your posts above.

 

[bicker]

... doesn't he get a say in how the child is raised?

Yes, good point. And that applies regardless of the differences, regardless of what either parent subscribes to. I would be very upset if I couldn't bring a child of mine up in my chosen faith.

I know some of the counter-arguments: That'll fill the child with questions because the child is being taught radically different things are (both) "true", and taught that by people who the child is supposed to invest their trust, and that will just foster their questioning things. There is no harm in prompting a child to think for themselves, to seek their own way built on even contradictory foundations of two parents who disagree with each other about such things.

 

[Disney Doll]

From a legal perspective, I would discuss with your attorney what can be included in the divorce decree.

From a religious perspective, in a perfect world children who receive Catholic sacraments do so at the behest of their parents as in "our family is Catholic and we'd like all of our children baptized into the faith". Some may choose to call it "brainwashing" or "indoctrination" but for a minor child, the parents get to make that decision. As the child ages into adulthood, perhaps the child will make the decision to choose a different religious path from the one that was initially chosen by their parents.

In my area, both parents have to be in agreement that they want their child to receive the sacraments. I have not heard of a Catholic church in my area performing any of these "foundation" sacraments (Baptism, First Communion, Confirmation) on a child if both parents, whether married or divorced, were not in agreement. That isn't to say it does not or has not happened, since human nature being what it is, it probably has. But it is not considered the ideal foundation on which to base someone's religious life.

If your estranged husband is doing this to be spiteful to you & to honor some promise made to his mother, then I would like to think that any area church would see through that as being disingenuous to the way the sacraments are supposed to be prepared for and administered. Your daughter is certainly old enough to state her feelings about the reception of these sacraments, as well. I would imagine that if she said "I'm not interested in receiving these sacraments but my father is making me and my mother doesn't like it", then chances are she wouldn't receive them and I daresay, they might not be considered valid sacraments under the circumstances.

I know that to people outside the Catholic Church the sacraments may seem like just so much ritual but most of us really do take them quite seriously.

As far as disparaging comments....what else is new? No religion is perfect and I wish you well, OP, in finding one that you think is. I will give you my empathy when you find out your chosen religion has the same imperfect humans in it that will do the same stupid things that the Catholics have done.

And yet God will still be there....just like He is for us Catholics, as flawed as we are.....and in the end, that's the point of religion, at least for me.

 

[dngnb8]

Wondering if my soon to be ex can have my daughter baptised, confirmed or become a member of the Catholic church without my consent? I am not a member of the church, and am opposed to it.
And, no, not an atheist, so that's not my opposition. I was raised Christian, but I am more concerned with the inherent goodness of a person versus whatever they call themselves= aka just because a cat has kittens in the oven, doesnt mean they are biscuits

Where the courts are concerned, they will only involve themselves in matters of religion to make sure that the religion is followed. A recent court case in FL occurred with sharia law. The court made sure that sharia law was upheld according to sharia law, not our civil law.

 

[Nancy F]

My cousin did. But that was back in the late 60s. Her husband was a hippy. I was Godmother to their daughter. We did it on a weekday so he wouldn't catch on. Not that it mattered. He didn't stick around too long after their second daughter was born 11 months later. Not saying it was the right thing to do. But then... I was only 13 at the time. If you feel strongly about it, talk to him. But if you're only doing it because you don't want him to win??? Remember... if you don't believe... it's only a little water.
Nancy

 

[heatherleigh]

Yes, they can do that without your consent.

 

[Disney Doll]

My cousin did. But that was back in the late 60s. Her husband was a hippy. I was Godmother to their daughter. We did it on a weekday so he wouldn't catch on. Not that it mattered. He didn't stick around too long after their second daughter was born 11 months later. Not saying it was the right thing to do. But then... I was only 13 at the time. If you feel strongly about it, talk to him. But if you're only doing it because you don't want him to win??? Remember... if you don't believe... it's only a little water.
Nancy

Good point Nancy.
A sacrament from a religion you don't believe in shouldn't really hold much weight in your own belief system.

 

[momabaarjo]

Were you and your ex married in the Catholic Church? If the answer is yes, then you have no grounds to stop your ex in his desire for her to grow up in the faith...non Catholics marrying into the church sign a paper stating they will raise their children in the faith.

I am appauled at your links to sexual abuse, the Holocost...oh my! Somehow this is all the church's fault? Do you send your child to school...how many sexual preditors are there? As for the Holocast, you need to learn some history the Catholic Church did not support Hitler...MANY Catholics died in concentration camps!

I am beginning to think you are just doing this to get back at your ex! Each posting makes you sound more bitter and full of haterd.