Can parents legally delay a child from starting kindergarten?

[stacy6552]

I think the question is simple: Dies DH have joint legal custody? Then she cant make that kind of decision without his approval.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I think the question is simple: Dies DH have joint legal custody? Then she cant make that kind of decision without his approval.

Yes DH has joint legal custody.

 

[jenseib]

I think the question is simple: Dies DH have joint legal custody? Then she cant make that kind of decision without his approval.

I don't know if it is different in each state or area. but that is not true here. Even with joint custody the one who has the child the most, where the child stays most, as final say, and say in emergency situations. I knwo this becuase we just changed our custody to joint a little less than a year ago. We usually have never had a problem, but I know that was in the papers. (general joint custody arrangements) And being that it sounds like the child is in her care more than 90% of the time, then I think she can make that decision.
Also someone stated about paying for travel to be a 50/50 deal. But I know hear as well ,that the one who moves, has to pay. (At least that is what a friend told me, becuase her DH moved away from his kids, and in order to have them brought to him, he has to pay for travel expenses.)

 

[jennifer293]

In TN , it is not mandatory till age 6 or at least that is what I have been told because at one point I thought about holding DD back because at age 4 she did not seem like she was ready, but matured a lot within that year and was ready at 5.

I wish the best to your family. I have never experienced the "step" side of parenting and I can only imagine it is rough when the mother is so hard to deal with.

 

[rt2dz]

I don't know if it is different in each state or area. but that is not true here. Even with joint custody the one who has the child the most, where the child stays most, as final say, and say in emergency situations. I knwo this becuase we just changed our custody to joint a little less than a year ago. We usually have never had a problem, but I know that was in the papers. (general joint custody arrangements) And being that it sounds like the child is in her care more than 90% of the time, then I think she can make that decision.
Also someone stated about paying for travel to be a 50/50 deal. But I know hear as well ,that the one who moves, has to pay. (At least that is what a friend told me, becuase her DH moved away from his kids, and in order to have them brought to him, he has to pay for travel expenses.)

It must vary by state. My, hopefully soon, to be ex bil is going for joint custody, not because he cares about the kids, but because he doesn’t want to pay and be vengeful. If he has joint custody, he can say no (like to the braces my niece needs) and not have to pay. If he gets joint custody, she can’t even take the kids on vacation without his signed, written approval. Same with drivers’ license. She will have to take every decision to court. He doesn’t even see my nephew at all and usually he cancels his scheduled visitations or cuts them short with my nieces. My sister offered him every weekend and Wednesday night along with every Thanksgiving and every other Easter; he refused. And he wants joint custody. ..? There is definitely no the one who the child resides with the most gets final say—how is that even joint custody?

 

[Disney1976]

I don't know if it is different in each state or area. but that is not true here. Even with joint custody the one who has the child the most, where the child stays most, as final say, and say in emergency situations. I knwo this becuase we just changed our custody to joint a little less than a year ago. We usually have never had a problem, but I know that was in the papers. (general joint custody arrangements) And being that it sounds like the child is in her care more than 90% of the time, then I think she can make that decision.
Also someone stated about paying for travel to be a 50/50 deal. But I know hear as well ,that the one who moves, has to pay. (At least that is what a friend told me, becuase her DH moved away from his kids, and in order to have them brought to him, he has to pay for travel expenses.)

It can vary by state, but more importantly, by the agreement entered into by the parties. When I practiced family law, I saw many, many poorly drafted agreements that were unfair and lopsided towards one party (for a variety of reasons). But, the good thing is that issues of custody, visitation, and child support are what I always called "flex" issues -they can be litigated (and re-litigated) as necessary, and even changed, they are not set in stone. This is good, because those issues shouldn't be set in stone, as situations can change requiring new arrangements.

One thing I will say about Florida is that they seem to be at a good place in this one area of the law, at least from the perspective of someone involved in the legal profession. The focus is on the best interest of the child(ren). Obviously, sometimes, judges make mistakes, or an attorney will take advantage of an unrepresented/underrepresented party, but the avenues are there to address those concerns at that point.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

In Ohio, custody and the right to make parenting decisions are separate issues. I have majority custody (ex gets her every other weekend and for a few hours one night a week), but we have a shared parenting plan that allows my ex to participate in all (major) decisions regarding DD. This includes when to start school and where she will go. The plan spells out that if we cannot come to a decision on these issues together, we will first enter into mediation before taking it to court. Costs for the mediation are shared 50/50. So far, I haven't had to go this route, but I have had to threaten it from time to time.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I don't know if it is different in each state or area. but that is not true here. Even with joint custody the one who has the child the most, where the child stays most, as final say, and say in emergency situations. I knwo this becuase we just changed our custody to joint a little less than a year ago. We usually have never had a problem, but I know that was in the papers. (general joint custody arrangements) And being that it sounds like the child is in her care more than 90% of the time, then I think she can make that decision.
Also someone stated about paying for travel to be a 50/50 deal. But I know hear as well ,that the one who moves, has to pay. (At least that is what a friend told me, becuase her DH moved away from his kids, and in order to have them brought to him, he has to pay for travel expenses.)

Not in our case. DH didn't move. The ex packed up the kids and moved them almost 2000 miles away from where they were living at the time. He has had to pay every single dime towards transportation costs for visitation. The child is in her care the majority of the time because of the location situation. She denies DH visitation unless it is convenient for her.

I wish the best to your family. I have never experienced the "step" side of parenting and I can only imagine it is rough when the mother is so hard to deal with.

Thank you. As evidenced by PPs, the "new wife" and "stepmother" is often viewed as the horrible person in the situation. There are some of us that are quite capable of caring about children that we didn't give birth to and wanting what is truly best for them.

It must vary by state. My, hopefully soon, to be ex bil is going for joint custody, not because he cares about the kids, but because he doesn’t want to pay and be vengeful. If he has joint custody, he can say no (like to the braces my niece needs) and not have to pay. If he gets joint custody, she can’t even take the kids on vacation without his signed, written approval. Same with drivers’ license. She will have to take every decision to court. He doesn’t even see my nephew at all and usually he cancels his scheduled visitations or cuts them short with my nieces. My sister offered him every weekend and Wednesday night along with every Thanksgiving and every other Easter; he refused. And he wants joint custody. ..? There is definitely no the one who the child resides with the most gets final say—how is that even joint custody?

Wow. What a sad situation. Tell your sister to "lawyer up" and get a good one and get everything she can hammered down in the original agreement so there is less chance of repeated visits to court over petty issues. Joint custody doesn't mean less child support unless he is going to have the child 50% of the time.

I have a friend who went thru such a nasty divorce that she had every single possible scenario addressed in her divorce decree (braces, vacations, natural disasters, college tuition, field trips, etc...). Her lawyer joked that he had never seen a "hurricane clause" before but she had one added that said if there was a hurricane within X miles of their hometown (they live on the coast) that the child had to be returned immediately to the Mother and all visitation was suspended until after the storm had passed X miles away. Sad that they had to go to that extreme but it was necessary because her ex was a piece of work.

 

[kjetjl]

I think the decision to "hold a child back" a year before starting kindergarten is difficult enough without the addition of ex's and courts, etc.


Just my experience... DH and I decided to hold our DS back. His birthday is Nov. We struggled with the decision and there was a time he questioned why he wasn't in the higher grade. DS has always excelled academically and does well socially. I have never regretted the decision.

We decided not to hold back DD whose birthday is in Oct. Preschool teachers assured us they thought she was ready, academically and socially. She took a test called the Giselle test and the recommendation was to enter kdg. "on time." She did fine in kdg. but struggled in first grade and was put in an alternative reading class. She seemed to do ok in 2nd grade but she still has issues with all that went on in first grade. That was a long year as a mom; it was so hard to see DD struggle knowing she might have been able to avoid it had we chose to "hold her back." I don't know if holding her back would have helped but I do regret not doing so.

 

[jack hannah bananah]

These situations are always very sad. I don't know that law. However, I would like to comment on the education side of this.

As a former teacher, I have never seen a problem with a child who was held back. I have seen many problems with children not held back (especially boys). Even children that seem on target in preschool can have problems later. Unfortunately, some children (especially boys) can have social and academic issues that don't surface until 3rd or 4th grade. Your SS is already at a disadvantage because of the split home, I would encourage you to closely consider supporting this decision.
I know this will add an additional cost to you, but if you focus on the ss (and I am not suggesting that you are not), I do not believe you will regret it.

I wish you and your family the best, and I hope this problem can be solved soon for all of you.

 

[rt2dz]

Wow. What a sad situation. Tell your sister to "lawyer up" and get a good one and get everything she can hammered down in the original agreement so there is less chance of repeated visits to court over petty issues. Joint custody doesn't mean less child support unless he is going to have the child 50% of the time.

I have a friend who went thru such a nasty divorce that she had every single possible scenario addressed in her divorce decree (braces, vacations, natural disasters, college tuition, field trips, etc...). Her lawyer joked that he had never seen a "hurricane clause" before but she had one added that said if there was a hurricane within X miles of their hometown (they live on the coast) that the child had to be returned immediately to the Mother and all visitation was suspended until after the storm had passed X miles away. Sad that they had to go to that extreme but it was necessary because her ex was a piece of work.

She has a great lawyer. So far, her DH has lost everything. His lawyer couldn’t even stand him. More than once, they thought they’d have everything figured out, show up to court, and he’d go in a different direction refusing to sign. His lawyer dropped him as soon as the judge allowed it; his lawyer tried to drop him many times. Now, she’s back at square one. The upside is she gets his ss benefits if they stay married legally another 18 months.

It’s not the child support that is the issue, although he’s gone to jail more than once rather than paying her. It’s the “extras”, i.e., the braces that are not a medical necessity. A lot of that is the state laws regarding joint custody. That is the only reason she refuses joint custody. She’s all for the kids seeing him, if he’d put the kids needs ahead of himself. She takes a lot of heat from the kids because she doesn’t want them knowing what a jerk their father is. She’d give up all support if he’d sign off letting her move out of state (again, state law). It’s about protecting the father’s rights, which is fantastic in most situations; her soon-to-be ex, though, is exploiting it and using it to be vengeful. He doesn’t (didn’t) want the divorce and is angry even though it has now been ~3 years. The judge sees it too. He’s gone on the record saying if he wasn’t bound by the law…

 

[jack hannah bananah]

ClarabelleCowFan

If the ex decides to go ahead and hold your SS back and you and your husband continue to disagree, please consider one more thing.
Do Not Let Him Know How You Feel! This could cause one of two things:
1 - He will think he is better than everyone else and doesn't need to do silly stuff he already knows (kindergarten is not only about academics), thus becoming difficult for the teacher.
2 - He may feel he doesn't fit in because he is too old.
None of these are truly the case, but if he hears negative comments from you, he may start to believe these things. It is all in how he perceives things.

Again, good luck! He is lucky to have an involved step-mother who is interested in his well being.

 

[brockscandy]

Please keep in mind, I have not read all the thread and this may pertain to more parents than the OP, but I have a couple of other thoughts. In my previous life (before being a mom) I taught H.S. I could hardly wait for my oldest daughter to start school. She has a June b-day and her preschool teacher recommended that we hold her back. I was devastated and other parents treated me as if there was something wrong with my child. Her teacher said academically she was ready, just not socially. I asked all kinds of kindergarten teachers their opinions. It was the high school teachers that convinced me in the end to hold her - They asked me if I wanted her to have to worry about drugs, sex and other things when she was younger or older. I am so happy with my decision especially when she is coming home in second grade asking about periods and getting pregnant because she heard it at school.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

ClarabelleCowFan

If the ex decides to go ahead and hold your SS back and you and your husband continue to disagree, please consider one more thing.
Do Not Let Him Know How You Feel! This could cause one of two things:
1 - He will think he is better than everyone else and doesn't need to do silly stuff he already knows (kindergarten is not only about academics), thus becoming difficult for the teacher.
2 - He may feel he doesn't fit in because he is too old.
None of these are truly the case, but if he hears negative comments from you, he may start to believe these things. It is all in how he perceives things.

Again, good luck! He is lucky to have an involved step-mother who is interested in his well being.

I would never say anything negative to DSS if he ends up starting later. That's not my style of parenting at all. I think that when the child nears the age to start K then he should be evaluated to see if he is ready. I am not trying to push him to start if he isn't ready at all. Our concern (DH and I) is that the ex will hold him back for her financial gain and not because it is what is best for the child. If the evaluation shows he is too immature for K at the legal age then obviously it would be best for him to start late.

These poor children are used as pawns on a regular basis for the ex to "get back" at or to "punish" DH for one thing or another. The whole situation is so very sad and I am so very thankful that my situation with my ex is literally the exact opposite.

 

[mom2my3kids]

Its legal in Indiana..

 

[DevilDuckie]

Again, I think that the OP shouldn't bbe concerned with this. This is for her DH and ex to work out. And she may not like the way the divorce was done, but he signed the papers. If he really didn't want it like this, he should've gotten his own lawyer or fought a little more. This kid is ONLY 3 right now. So that means his divorce is still pretty new. And to be fighting the terms already just baffles me. Sounds like he is getting influenced by someone now. And I was under the understanding that once something is set up in custody and child support, it has to stay that way for a certain amount of years before it can be changed. I know with child support, once it is rasied, you can't ask for it to be rasied again even if the payor has jsut got a nmew job that triples his/her income, until the time has elasped. As for appeals. That just disgusts me. I know you guys don't care for the ex, but this is kids you are talking about. If she doesn't have the money, the kids go without. I had no college education. Just a cosmotology license. I didn't make more than minimum wage either. I couldn't afford to get more education. I had kids to take care of, and if I could afford the education, I cetainly couldn't afford the daycare for them while I went. Sadly, it may not be her fault that she can't get a better paying job. I certainly wish I would've waited for kids, seeing how hard it was raising them on my own. I struggled for years and years. And when my firend would complain about how much her DH was paying in child support, I would have to remind her how things were for me. For some reason, she could understand it for me, but still had issues with the paying side. I guess no one wants to pay money out to exes. Especially new wives.

So very true. I cannot fathom how non-custodial step parents think they know better than a full time mother what is best for the child. One good thing I can say about my son's father is that he has never tried to reduce his financial obligations, nor does he let his wife stick her nose into the raising of our son. She's not his parent by either biology or circumstance (my husband is a full-time hands on parent- everyone involved agrees that he gets a say in decisions) so it's not her place to second guess me when I make a call. I don't think it would occur to her to try.

 

[DevilDuckie]

It must vary by state. My, hopefully soon, to be ex bil is going for joint custody, not because he cares about the kids, but because he doesn’t want to pay and be vengeful.

...
And he wants joint custody. ..? There is definitely no the one who the child resides with the most gets final say—how is that even joint custody?

In CA (as I learned when we formalized our custody agreement) the only way to avoid joint legal custody is for the other party to terminate their parental rights or be declared unfit by the court.

My son's father's share of the "joint" legal custody is that he can take my son to the doctor or leave the state with him for vacations without my written consent. I do not have to have him agree to anything I do. I enroll my son in school, set up his IEP and special services, put him in karate, have him treated by doctors and therapists... all without his biological father having any input. I do notify him, in advance if feasible, of anything that may be relevant but I definitely do not need his permission to do anything.

It is interesting how much these laws (or people's interpretations of them) vary.

 

[rt2dz]

In CA (as I learned when we formalized our custody agreement) the only way to avoid joint legal custody is for the other party to terminate their parental rights or be declared unfit by the court.

My son's father's share of the "joint" legal custody is that he can take my son to the doctor or leave the state with him for vacations without my written consent. I do not have to have him agree to anything I do. I enroll my son in school, set up his IEP and special services, put him in karate, have him treated by doctors and therapists... all without his biological father having any input. I do notify him, in advance if feasible, of anything that may be relevant but I definitely do not need his permission to do anything.

It is interesting how much these laws (or people's interpretations of them) vary.

She, as you can tell, is not in CA. There is sole custody with or without visitation, depending on court agreements, and then joint custody in her state. Her state is very fathers right, which is generally a very good thing, but her DH is being a jerk because he is angry. Actually, I don't think it is so much her DH as it is her DH's brother who is still angry at his ex for having a 3 year affair before leaving him. The brother is pushing on DH and her DH has taken it too far.

 

[TexasJen]

Depends on your state. In Texas kindergarten is not even mandatory. My son (now finishing 4th grade) has a June 30 bday. We held him back a year fo kindergarten, and it was the best decision we ever made for him.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

So very true. I cannot fathom how non-custodial step parents think they know better than a full time mother what is best for the child. One good thing I can say about my son's father is that he has never tried to reduce his financial obligations, nor does he let his wife stick her nose into the raising of our son. She's not his parent by either biology or circumstance (my husband is a full-time hands on parent- everyone involved agrees that he gets a say in decisions) so it's not her place to second guess me when I make a call. I don't think it would occur to her to try.

Thank you for passing judgment on me when you don't know me as this is obviously directed at me. DH doesn't "let me stick my nose" into raising his son. I have my own children to raise but that doesn't keep me from being concerned about the treatment that my stepchildren receive OR the treatment that my husband receives from his bitter ex.

DH did not go to court to get his support reduced. Nutshell version - He went to court because his ex dragged him to court and blatantly LIED about her financial situation and her older son's medical bills. The judge in family court (her father's friend) ordered an increase of over $700 a month to cover these "extraordinary expenses" without so much as asking her for any type of proof of any of her statments. When DH's attorney subpoenaed these records his requests were never met (only in the good ole boy's world does that happen!) - the support was immediately increased and DH was also ordered to pay his ex's attorney fees. The judge refused to read the case log or the brief that DH's attorney had prepared and ruled from the bench.

We appealed the decision and both rounds of the appellate court ruled in our favor. All that means is that the child support went back to the original amount and she now has to reimbuse DH for the overage he paid to her and the fees he paid to her attorney as well as the court costs. As I have stated before - DH's original child support amount is MORE than the state's required amount for his income. When the scheduled reduction occurs (when the youngest child enters kindergarten) THEN his support will be close, but still over, the state's required amount for his income.