Can I trust the wife after this??

[pammypooh]

Joe,

Please don't forget that this is a woman that you loved enough to marry. All marriages have their good times and bad times. Even the best marriages. Please take the good advice from the folks here and seek counseling for both of you. Shopping addictions are real and it would be good for you both to understand what drives it. Also, communicating does not mean screaming at someone for 20 minutes. The loudest voice heard sometimes is a whisper.
While I am certain you feel betrayed, think how your wife might feel if she heard the words you used to describe her. I am sure it was your frustration talking, but words like that sting and hurt and would drive me out - maybe even to the mall to forget my troubles.
Just please speak to each other with kindness and don't forget that love brought you together.

I wish you and your wife strength as you work through this and hope as you remember that you are a team of one. Don't forget that prayers can help you too.

Best wishes.

Pam

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I can't believe you said that she is basically worthless. No person is worthless. I believe there are many other problems besides this financial one. Maybe she doesn't talk because all you do is yell, or maybe in the past she tried to talk but you didn't listen. It sounds like this marriage is in a lot of trouble. And I really can't believe you would post these things about her. I would be very hurt if my DH did that. It sounds like a lack of respect, maybe on both parts.

Good luck. I hope you decide to work on these issues together.

 

[disykat]

Originally posted by Chattyaholic
Cheating on your spouse is the worst, in my book. [/B]

Chatty, sorry I just had to address this one. Betrayal is not just about sex. Tell your dh.

 

[disykat]

Joe, you came here for a listening ear when you felt betrayed and angry. I'm sorry people are twisting your words and using them to attack you. Don't let them keep you from taking some of the good advice you've gotten here. Best wishes.

 

[Home@Night]

I have been on her side. I have never told this wholestory to anyone. Long. Please bear with me. No, I am not a new poster. Ingognito, i guess.

Many years ago, I was a SAHM. DH made all the money. It was my job to handle it. and I did. Poorly. The day I bounced my first check I thought I was going to die. Did I tell him? Not on your life. At the time he was turning very violent. So I paid the fees, skimming from the household money and hid the next checking account statement. And that began a frightning downward spiral of hiding, lying, cheating and it statred to snowball. big time. At this time we were living in what had been his partents place, buying on a land contrat. They were out of state. I was supposed to be putting the money in a certain checking account and paying MIL's health insurance from this. She got super cheap rates becasue of a previous job. After robbong peter to pay paul, that payment was not getting into the bank, and then came the day where there was no money to pay the insurance.

This went on for many months. I had an ulcer, heartburn constantly, and statred letting the housework go. I rearely got dressed, cleaned and cooked jsut what I had to. The kids were about 1 and 3 at the time. I panicked when the weekend would come around because I didn't want DH to get the mail from the mail box or answer the phone. Once the mailman had a registered letterfrom someplace that I owed money and I made up some story about him wanting some information about a family member. I hid statements, letters and bills everywhere. Under mattresses, behind books, in the attic, everywhere.

Somehow DH's family began to realize that something was wrong. His sis came over with her DH and talked with mine for a while, and I was a mess. Kept pacing...what if they said something to him? It is a small town. I had bounced checks everywhere.

His parents down south were getting worried when their insurance started getting turned down. I lied about that, too, over the phone.

One day they came driving into the yard and walked right past me to DH and began telling him everything. They had foudn out most all of it. DH was working afternoons, and he told me they would help me get it all worked out. His mom is and accountant, so he figured it was something that was jsut overlooked, and his mom wouldfind it. He left, they had another family member come and get the kids, called me mom at work and told her to come and get me because I was no longer welcome there. Overthe course of several days, they had me taken off all accountsthat DH and i had together, like credit cards, banks,everywhere. How, I don't know. Started the paper work to have my kids taken due to neglect. House was a mess....garbage everywhere. DH came a couple of days later and took me to Doc to have me tested for drugs. All neg. But why didn't I fight? I wonder now if I had some kind of a nervous break down. Big spans of time are gone. I literally curled upand did not eat, drink, anything for days. Slowly all the bills, everything was added up. Came to about $20,000 that was not accounted for.

All DH kept saying is "How" and "Why" and I had no idea. Fear began it, fear fueled it. Counciling helped. Well, helped me. DH is more of a concrete person. Needed to have everything in black and white. And it really never got that way.

We began living together again. His idea. He came with the kids to my mom's and said this was enough. Time to start picking up and beginning again. He borrowed money from varoius relatives and paid off most everything. All but the house. We lost it. His parents took it away. We live in a trailer now.

All this happened about 13 yers ago. And while the trust was slow and painful to build back up, it has come, pretty much. I have slipped from time to time. And he has learned, too. It is give and take. He cannot get super violent if I come to him with a money problem, as long and it dosen't get bad, lke maybe a forgotten phonebill, and I will not hide things and let him get blindsided.

We are still married, pretty happay really, and in soem ways it made us stronger. We found out which family is backstabbers ,and which stand beside through thick and thin. I will never fully care for his parents, and they will never realy care for me, but we have achieved peace.

the moral of the story? I don't know. But trust will be hard and painful to build, and communication is the biggest key. So is reaction. Reaction to how you will handle her spending, how she will handle communicating. If it cannot all come clean and inthe open it will never heal. But try. And protect yourself. Keep tabs, be non-jusgemental at backslides, because they will happen. There is no quick fix.

The one scar left behind is that DH will not spend money. Every available cent goes into the savings and is not spent. WE live cheeply and frugaly and he make more money than everyone in either family. We are still living in the trailer which is hard, becasue we ca afford to build now. We have over $12,000 in just one account with more in others. Cannot be spent. I would love to have a real home, something I am not embarrased about, but i guess this is still my punishement. I have a job, now, and can spend my money pretty much how I please, but it is strickly commission, so not alot yet. But I keep teasing him I will build it my self.

Get help. Both of you. And be patient. The good times are yet to come.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by disykat
I'm sorry people are twisting your words and using them to attack you.

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I have to disagree with the statement above.. I don't think anyone is "attacking" Joe - just merely pointing out (based on his own words) that money is not the only problem in his marriage and his wifes 15K debt is merely a "symptom" of a much bigger problem..

He has implied that this debt was somehow "hidden" and then goes on to say (in his own words) "I guess because I don't review any bank statements or anything I wasn't able to notice payments being made on these accounts." He also said, "She basically controls the bank account as she works in the bank we use in the operations department." So was the debt "hidden" - or was he simply not involved enough in their finances to know or even care how the money was being spent? "Hiding" the debt would imply sneakiness on her part - not a terribly attractive character trait - but if Joe never bothered to look at their finances, does that make her a sneak? IMO the answer would be "no"..

He then goes on to say, "I spoke to her parents about it and they said it is because we don't communicate." Big red flag when people on the outside notice there is no communication before the couple themselves realize it.. That indicates that the lack of communication is not something terribly recent..

Next he says, "I'm just sick of the attitude that because she works she thinks she can spend as much money as she wants." Well - what was the original agreement in terms of how the money would be spent? Was there a mutual decision made in regards to that income? If there wasn't, it's too late to cause a fuss about it now.. If there was - and it was broken - was it addressed at that time or was that overlooked as well?

Finally, in his last post he says:

"She's the type of person that you can yell at for 20 minutes and not get one word in response...Very frustrating! This implies that "yelling" is the norm in dealing with whatever marital issues they may have and I don't blame her for not responding - I wouldn't either..

"She also thinks that cooking and cleaning are 2 cities in China. My food comes from the in-laws every night. Talk about spoiled!" Again, if this wasn't an issue before - if it was an accepted practice (which actually makes both of them spoiled) why is she a worse person for it now than she was 6 months ago?

"I would meet her halfway on a lot of things but she is so co-dependent on her parents that if they died she would be deemed totally worthless." Whoa!! I think if my DH viewed my relationship with my parents in that manner - and felt that I would be deemed "totally worthless" without them - I would be inclined to answer EVERY question he asked me with, "It's none of your business."

"When I spoke to her parents they said she needs to get a life of her own. I've been telling her that for years....." And maybe that's exactly what she's doing............ Telling her that for YEARS ????????

--------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but this does not sound like a marriage that was made in heaven - nor does it sound like a marriage that "suddenly" went bad within the past few weeks..

Joe needs to realize that his marriage has many problems that were there long before this money situation reared its ugly head.. Once he's able to accept the reality of his troubled marriage, he then needs to accept responsibility for HIS role in the problems as well.. His wife didn't reach this point alone..

I'm not saying that mistakes weren't made by both parties, but it appears to me that Joe is still so angry he can't - or won't - acknowledge that he has also played a part in the deterioration of his marriage..

Encouraging him to feel as though he is totally blamess for the "big picture" will not help him to make the right choices.. It will simply feed into the anger he feels over being "wronged" and as long as he stays angry, his marriage doesn't have a chance..

There is only one truly important question here - and it isn't whether or not his wife is trustworthy.. It's "Does he want to save the marriage?"

If he does, (and she does) then they'll do whatever it takes to correct the problems..

If he doesn't, then he can continue to be angry - he can continue to yell at his wife - he can continue to give her the "silent" treatment until he gets the answers he wants - he can continue to make derogatory statements about her - he can continue to degrade her to her own parents - he can continue to tell her she "needs to get a life of her own.." And I guarantee you, she WILL............

-------------------------------------------

Joe,

Please don't allow yourselves to become just another one of the many divorce statistics.. The two of you can save the marriage if you commit yourselves to a joint effort.. Why not give it a try??

Again, my best of luck to the both of you...

 

[joe]

We have decided to work things out and work on a budget. I will be finding out everything about how the debt got so large. I accept responsibility for some things and will try to make things better by being more involved.

I would have never posted this if I wasn't ready to hear the responses. I don't know anyone on this forum and will never meet anyone on this forum so I don't feel like this is a bold step to post this information about my life. I was merely trying to get opinions as I would from a counselor or an objective party.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Girls Scout Leader]

yikes! Both you and your inlaws agree that she needs to grow up, yet they cook dinner for you every night? And this is acceptable to you? Soundls like you BOTH need to get away form the inlaws and stand on your own two feet....together.

 

[poohandwendy]

C. Ann...
Bravo, very, very well said.

If a couple facing a problem wants to save the marriage (the most important first issue to address), it has to be done completely as a team without reprimand, parenting one another, blame games...that is the only way it will work. As a matter of fact, that is usually what started the mess in the first place, lack of partnership and equal power in the relationship...

I truly hope you both are able to work through the problems you are having, Joe.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by joe
We have decided to work things out and work on a budget. I will be finding out everything about how the debt got so large. I accept responsibility for some things and will try to make things better by being more involved.

I would have never posted this if I wasn't ready to hear the responses. I don't know anyone on this forum and will never meet anyone on this forum so I don't feel like this is a bold step to post this information about my life. I was merely trying to get opinions as I would from a counselor or an objective party.

Thanks for the advice.

---------------------------------------------------------------

That is GREAT news, Joe!!! The fact that you are BOTH willing to work on the marriage is SUCH a positive sign.. It really, really makes me happy to hear that.. I get sooooo frustrated when people don't at least try to work things out..

You loved each other once - and underneath the anger and hurt, probably still do - so let that love WORK for you..



Oh - and about never meeting/seeing any of us?? Don't be so sure.. Folks around here have this "pixie dust" stuff that they sprinkle all over you and next thing you know you're in WDW on a shoestring budget (pop tarts for breakfast - PB&J for lunch and dinner) surrounded by all these nutty DISers!!!!!

 

[disykat]

Gee Whiz, C Ann. Sorry to have upset you so.

I did feel that some posters had been twisting words of Joe's and that the tone was getting more nasty than helpful in some of the posts. In no way did I suggest that Joe had no part of the fault. I suggested he read and take some of the good advice that was offered. I simply offered support to someone who was venting - because IMO advice is more easily swallowed with kindness.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by disykat
Gee Whiz, C Ann. Sorry to have upset you so.

I did feel that some posters had been twisting words of Joe's and that the tone was getting more nasty than helpful in some of the posts. In no way did I suggest that Joe had no part of the fault. I suggested he read and take some of the good advice that was offered. I simply offered support to someone who was venting - because IMO advice is more easily swallowed with kindness.

----------------------------------

You didn't upset me - sorry if I gave you that impression.. Maybe I didn't "read" the posts the same way you did.. I thought that aside from the few people who advocated he simply ditch his wife right here and now, that most everyone else (even those who were kind of stern in their posts) were trying to drive home the point that he had to look at all of the issues - not simply the isolated money issue - before he took any kind of "action" - lest he do something in haste that he might not be able to undo later on..

And you're right about advice being more easily swallowed with kindness - but there are times when that advice can't be "heard" over the anger that one is feeling - and I definitely got the impression that Joe was SOOOO angry he wasn't hearing OR seeing anything but red..

Luckily he came back to this thread when he was feeling calmer and took a "second" look.. His last post sounds like he can "hear" us now - and thank goodness he and his wife are going to make a concentrated effort to work things out..

I think that's a pretty good ending - don't you?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by joe
Hello all,

Bad news for me! I recently got some paperwork back for the refinancing of my home. Upon inspection I noticed that my wife had $15k in credit card bills I did not know about. When I asked her about it she said "it's none of your business". Needless to say, I haven't spoken to her in days and won't until she offers up an explanation and an apology. She basically controls the bank account as she works in the bank we use in the operations department.

I guess because I don't review any bank statements or anything I wasn't able to notice payments being made to these accounts. Am I a schmuck and what should I do? I don't know how long this has been going on but the word "budget" is obviously not one she has heard before. I don't know if I can trust her again. This is putting a major dent in our finances.

Sorry, just had to get it off my chest.

Are the cc bills in both of your names?

I would try to get all of the paperwork. I trusted my XH with finances and he not only did not use our joint bank account to pay the bills, he racked up thousands of dollars more during a short time. He ruined my credit because my name was on the accounts. I'm living pretty well now, but I still have to have my dad co sign loans for me, because of pscyho and his spending habits. (but the story of psycho is a long dull one)

I will never share finances with anyone again. I currently live with my long term SO and he and I have separate bank accounts and plan to remain that way for as long as we are together. We are both in far better financial shape now than either of us has ever been. But I know many who are not so lucky. I have an aunt who discovered thousands of dollars worth of bills her XH was hiding from her and she will literally be paying off her half of them for teh rest of her life.

If possible, if these things are in your name as well, try to get a loan to consolidate, pay them off and cancel the cards.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It is not an ending.... It is a BEGINNING!!!

Disykat and C.Ann, I agree with both of you! I am under the distinct impression that Joe, while not being blameless, did not ever state that he never did anything wrong. He was totally honest here. And, after all, he WAS venting! I can be very expressive myself, and it can be easy to throw around cliche phrases like 'get a life' on an anonymous board, without really meaning that he thinks his wife is a completely worthless!! I kinda gave him a little bit of the benefit of doubt on those things.

What is great about this whole thing is how he ultimately did get the vent he really needed here, and some AWESOME advice as well!!!

Joe... I am SO happy to hear that you and your wife will now work at straitening ALL of these issues out! But, I just had to say, one more time, like so many others... When the issues become SO entangled and SO emotional, I really feel that an objective and experienced third party (counselor) would be immensely beneficial!!!!

I know that is tough to do... Like you said, you kinda vented here and used the board for advice, like a counselor. If you had the guts to post here and to do that, then perhaps you and your wife could muster the courage to contact somebody???? I think you would be glad!

All my best wishes for you and your DW for this new year!!!

 

[Chattyaholic]

disykat: I guess you and I just have different opinions on what "cheating" is, and we should let it go at that. My Visa card is in MY NAME ONLY, his name is NOT on it. He has two cards in HIS NAME, I have mine, and we have one TOGETHER. MY DEBT is just that....MINE.