Can Disney inflate point charts by adding new units?

[Dark Rider]

I saw a video explaining that the Polynesian studios have now surpassed the Grand Floridian studios in terms of point cost due to the bungalow points being redistributed. This is exactly why I didn't buy at Poly or Copper Creek. Is it possible for Disney to add super-expensive units like the bungalows to other DVC resorts and then over time bump up the point cost for other room categories? Or, is there some sort of protection against this type of point cost inflation?

 

[emmymac17]

Seems like they can add units/points to an existing condo association - did it with Saratoga Tree Houses and are going to do it with VGF2. From my understanding, they can then redistribute across point categories if needed...would result in a lot of unhappy owners. Not sure if the SSR tree houses resulted in points redistribution there or not when that happened

 

[RoseGold]

Yes, and they can add new categories. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an exorbitant Club Level in VGF2. This allows more total points to be sold.

The point of the game is point inflation. It's why the 2042s, even at their current resale pricing, can still be good deals if you are able to use the legacy charts. You can really see the difference when you compare BLT to the rest of the monorail.

 

[davidl81]

Yes they can and they somewhat did at SSR but in reverse. They added the Tree House Villas which at first were the same points per night as a 2BR. After a few years they raised THV points and lowered the points in 2BR’s. So most SSR owners were in a better spot, but if you bought specifically for THV your point requirements went up after your initial purchase.

 

[Stargazer65]

It's why the 2042s, even at their current resale pricing, can still be good deals if you are able to use the legacy charts. You can really see the difference when you compare BLT to the rest of the monorail.

This went over my head, can you elaborate on this? I'm not familiar with what you mean by "legacy chart". Also, what is the big difference that you refer to if you compare BLT to the rest of the monorail?

 

[Dark Rider]

Is there anything members can do to prevent obvious point inflation attempts? It seems Disney could just add one cabin, make it cost a million points, then bump up the points on every other unit annually by the maximum amount allowed.

 

[Cabius]

This went over my head, can you elaborate on this? I'm not familiar with what you mean by "legacy chart". Also, what is the big difference that you refer to if you compare BLT to the rest of the monorail?

While you can use points to book at any available resort at the 7-month mark* some resorts cost a lot more points to book than others. In particular, the oldest "legacy" resorts have much more favorable point charts.

For example, a renting a Standard 1-bedroom for a week in January varies wildly by resort, with the newer resorts being much more expensive

SSR: 178
BLT: 210
BCV: 211
VGF: 268
RIV: 243

The difference varies from resort to resort and room type to room type, but the general theme is that over time points have gotten more expensive and less valuable. For example, if you wanted to stay year in one of the options I listed above, you would need 15% more points to stay at RIV vs BLT, or 50% more points to book at VGF rather than SSR.

The expectation is that when resorts like BCV expire in 2042 they will be renovated and re-sold as "new" resorts. When that happens, they will have new point charts that require many more points per night, in line with RIV if not VGF. That 1-bedroom stay might climb from 211 to 250+ so that new purchasers have to buy more points to support their desired vacation plans.

*unless you purchased via re-sale after the new restrictions went into place

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Is there anything members can do to prevent obvious point inflation attempts? It seems Disney could just add one cabin, make it cost a million points, then bump up the points on every other unit annually by the maximum amount allowed.

The maximum is pretty low, so that kind of approach would probably be assailable.

Just adding new units, if they were in line with what simnilar units had priced at for their inceptions? Not much recourse.

 

[BillPA]

The current exec team is very good at "creating points" for DVD.

 

[RoseGold]

This went over my head, can you elaborate on this? I'm not familiar with what you mean by "legacy chart". Also, what is the big difference that you refer to if you compare BLT to the rest of the monorail?

The cheapest studio at Boardwalk/BLT/ Poly/VGF for this weekend is 18/21/26/26 points. That's a lot of point inflation in less than ten years from BLT to Poly/VGF with equal, or arguably worse location. RIV is 23 in this example, but a whopping 29 for the better view.

The point escalation is also obvious in the current 1BR charts, BW 34, VGF 52, RIV 50 in this example, but it works in the charts overall (BW/BLT/VGF 3br 117/130/173). I wouldn't be surprised to see more bungalow-type options, which I would consider VGF club level to be. More points = more money.

 

[Stargazer65]

In particular, the oldest "legacy" resorts have much more favorable point charts.

Comparing my 3 resorts (BRV, SSR, BLT) I see an outlier there...BRV is older but has a higher point cost for a 1 BR SV for a week in January than the other two.
BRV 218
SSR 178
BLT 210
I guess you could chalk that down to location for BRV vs SSR maybe. But it seems like it should be lower than BLT since it's significantly older.

 

[sethschroeder]

Is there anything members can do to prevent obvious point inflation attempts?

Chat on this site and others to draw together knowledge about what is happening.
Talk to other DVC members that you know or see while at WDW.
Email DVC directly to outline your concerns and ask to speak to someone and dont just do this once.

 

[sethschroeder]

Comparing my 3 resorts (BRV, SSR, BLT) I see an outlier there...BRV is older but has a higher point cost for a 1 BR SV for a week in January than the other two.
BRV 218
SSR 178
BLT 210
I guess you could chalk that down to location for BRV vs SSR maybe. But it seems like it should be lower than BLT since it's significantly older.

BLT Standard View is a small subset of the resort though. You also need to put down 241 and 287 points for a 1BR at Lake and Theme Park View levels.

 

[Stargazer65]

BLT Standard View is a small subset of the resort though. You also need to put down 241 and 287 points for a 1BR at Lake and Theme Park View levels.

True, I didn't think about that.

 

[Lorana]

Technically, contractually, the answer to that question should be "no." The total # of points for a resort to book all rooms in a year can never change (minor fluctuations due to # of weekend days/leap year/etc aside). # of points is how your % ownership is represented, and Disney cannot change that. Additionally, the contracts also specify that a certain # of points will always be able to book a week in a specific category. Now, they can kind of get away with making it so that, say, September always has that minimum, and everywhere else the point increase goes way up, but those points in the contract are supposed to prevent inflation from using higher point units to inflate lower point units over time. My understanding is that was at the crux of the 2020 point chart dispute in 2019 over lockoff units, and was part of the reason why DVC amended the point charts after it was disputed by owners.

There are owners discussing the inflation of the 2022 points charts, and many have contacted DVC about their concern. I highly recommend reading this thread, as smarter minds than I have done really in-depth analysis of the contracts/agreements and point charts to prove that DVC is inflating point charts beyond the total # of points for a resort:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-point-balancing-2022-vs-2021.3820183/

 

[Stargazer65]

It's why the 2042s, even at their current resale pricing, can still be good deals if you are able to use the legacy charts.

This is a good point. I don't know if many people take the point charts into account when they buy. I know I didn't, I just looked at dues and cost per point when I bought resale. But that might work fine for someone like me anyway since we typically book where we feel like (or what we can get) in the 7 month window.

 

[Jwaire]

I saw a video explaining that the Polynesian studios have now surpassed the Grand Floridian studios in terms of point cost due to the bungalow points being redistributed.

I saw Shannon Ford's video too and almost commented. Polynesian Studios have always had periods where they were more expensive than VGF studios. This isn't new. They're larger than VGF and have 2 showers.

Now, they've really reduced the point requirement for summer months for Poly and bumped up the last two seasons (during Easter, Christmas and Thanksgiving), but I can't see where it came from the bungalows.

We typically travel in July and for 2022, our Poly week is now 18 points less than 2021.

 

[Pluto1976]

The cheapest studio at Boardwalk/BLT/ Poly/VGF for this weekend is 18/21/26/26 points. That's a lot of point inflation in less than ten years from BLT to Poly/VGF with equal, or arguably worse location. RIV is 23 in this example, but a whopping 29 for the better view.

The point escalation is also obvious in the current 1BR charts, BW 34, VGF 52, RIV 50 in this example, but it works in the charts overall (BW/BLT/VGF 3br 117/130/173). I wouldn't be surprised to see more bungalow-type options, which I would consider VGF club level to be. More points = more money.

I would agree there is a point escalation (ex. RIV) and I could also see why the Poly or the VGF command more points per night over the other resorts. Disney prices the hotel side of the GF and Poly resorts the highest out of all the others including the Contemporary and oftentimes I have seen the Poly a bit higher.

Now value is subjective to each individual. Perhaps I am biased as the GF and Poly are my favorites and I can easily see why these 2 are priced higher then all others pointwise. That being said, I cannot understand the higher point values for the RIV. I suppose part of it is that subjective thing.

 

[Stargazer65]

I highly recommend reading this thread, as smarter minds than I have done really in-depth analysis of the contracts/agreements and point charts to prove that DVC is inflating point charts beyond the total # of points for a resort:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-point-balancing-2022-vs-2021.3820183/

omg More charts!

I feel like my statistics teacher has hunted me down, to punish me through DVC.

 

[fixerupper]

Now value is subjective to each individual. Perhaps I am biased as the GF and Poly are my favorites and I can easily see why these 2 are priced higher then all others pointwise. That being said, I cannot understand the higher point values for the RIV. I suppose part of it is that subjective thing.

It's newer and they can. This is how they offset the "deals" at the others, and make the "cheaper" points more expensive. I have a 4 day 134 point stay booked at OKW that will cost me 232 points if I decide to switch it to RIV. And that is why I did not buy at RIV. (along with all the other reasons)