Came across this article from an average guest

[Angel Ariel]

Yes Napa is on my list too. But an entree and dessert and beverage at Napa will run you about $70 with tax. That's way more expensive than Disney World unless you're talking the super elite deluxe dining which again are included in the dining plan.

Thanks for the info on the 3 day tickets = 1 early entrance at DL. I'll explore that option.

You are comparing out of pocket to dining plan..I'm not. IME OOP costs at Napa are, IIRC, pretty on par eith OOP coats at CA Grill....that's what I'm,saying

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

Not so fast my friend. You can't possibly blame the lines solely on FP+. Word on the street is that WDW has gotten a lot busier in the last few years. The lines on the non headlining attractions have gotten longer and can be partially blamed on FP+ drawing people away from waiting in line at the headliners and funneling them toward the non headliners. However, a large portion of the problem is also that the parks are simply busier than they were in the past.

Like Joshua said, perhaps not solely, but mostly. But even you admit that FP+ is at least partially responsible (we probably disagree as to what extent). But hardly anyone was asking to schedule attractions 60 days in advance. In fact, nobody I knew was asking for that. The FP system was fine the way it was and it served its purpose perfectly. Sure there was the occasional person who showed up at 2pm in the afternoon only to be upset that there were no more Soarin Fast Passes but that type of person was a minority.

And things like arriving at rope drop, going late at night, going at slow times of the year, etc. are all still good strategies to reduce your wait in line. Does it mean you will walk on to everything? No, and it never really did. You would still have waits of a few minutes most of the time.

Like I said, they're still good strategies, but their effectiveness has been significantly diminished. Late nights now are almost completely worthless unless you're talking Magic Kingdom 2am to 3am. Rope Drop still works but only for a fraction of the time that it did pre FP+. Going at slow times of the year use to work wonderfully. Back in the 90s, going early November before Thanksgiving, would have guaranteed walk on to everything. That is no longer the case.

And pre dining plan or no, I find it hard to believe you could walk up to Le Cellier at 7 on a Saturday night during spring break and get a table for 4 immediately with no reservation.

LOL come on dude. Why not say Christmas Day, Saturday, 7pm? I remember in my late teens going in the 90s and even early 2000s (pre dining plan) and walked right up to Le Celier and asked for a table without an ADR. And by the way, it may not have been Saturday at 7pm, but was in the summer (because I was still in high school/college). So we were going at busy times and had no problem at all walking up to some of Disney's best restaurants.

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

You are comparing out of pocket to dining plan..I'm not. IME OOP costs at Napa are, IIRC, pretty on par eith OOP coats at CA Grill....that's what I'm,saying

I understand perfectly what you're saying but I have to compare DL OOP to DW DP because I'm always on DP when I go to Disney World. Almost everyone who goes to DW is. IMO, it doesn't make sense for me just to compare OOP costs between the two since that isn't my reality.

 

[Robo]

I understand perfectly what you're saying but I have to compare DL OOP to DW DP because I'm always on DP when I go to Disney World. Almost everyone who goes to DW is.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[flicx]

The article is spot on.

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I should qualify that by excluding locals.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I understand perfectly what you're saying but I have to compare DL OOP to DW DP because I'm always on DP when I go to Disney World. Almost everyone who goes to DW is. IMO, it doesn't make sense for me just to compare OOP costs between the two since that isn't my reality.

As I said earlier, we've never done the dining plan because when we researched it and worked out the numbers, it was *not* a savings over OOP for us. So even if I were going to compare our WDW dining plan research to DLR OOP, I would say they are similar (for us) because we didn't find the dining plan to be a savings at WDW.

Anyway, my main point was mostly just DLR is not just across the board more expensive than WDW. For example, there are less TS restaurants at DLR than at WDW, and as such we generally eat more CS at DLR than we do at WDW - just because there are numerically less TS restaurants. As with WDW - or any vacation - it comes down to the individual choice on how to spend (or save) your vacation dollars.

 

[BabyHabs]

I love planning my Disney vacations. Our first vacation, I planned 1.5 months out and still got decent ADRs and had zero clue what I was doing. Our last trip was planned a couple months in advance and I got 95% (stayed off site) of the FP+ I wanted, most of the ADRs I wanted and I had a bit better idea what I was doing. This trip is being planned 6 months in advance, I'm 2 days out from my ADR window and know which adr I want on each day. I now know exactly what I'm doing. Each trip was awesome. You don't need to plan to enjoy your trip, but it definitely makes things easier and more enjoyable when you actually get there.
Disney gets away with it because the demand is there. I think the system works well.

 

[grimley1968]

I should qualify that by excluding locals.

I'd qualify it more than that. We haven't been on the DP for years, "free" or paid. We're not locals. I admit a lot of people use it, but I think it's a stretch to say "almost everyone who goes to DW is" on the DP.

 

[lugnut33]

I love planning, but hate the whole FP+ thing. FP+ is currently the #1 thing I dislike about Disney World. I hope DL never gets it, but believe they inevitably will because of how much Disney has spent on it.
Things I specifically dislike about FP+:
1. Planning that far out
2. Having to stay up late for when they "go on sale" (I loved that term in the article), just like buying tickets for a concert.
3. Navigating the terrible Disney website.
4. No flexibility when it comes to changing headliners, therefore no changing of park days unless you're willing to give up the headliners.
5. Long lines to get through first check point.
6. I feel really bad for people confused by the whole thing. Saw tons of people walk up to the touch points (after waiting in line) only to be directed to standby.
7. Creates a lot of tense moments at the first touch point when CM says, "No go".
8. If it's a busy time, don't even think about changing parks.
9. Creates long lines at attractions that didn't have long lines.
10. Has slowed down attractions, especially POC
11. Cannot gift my unused fast passes to a family.
12. Having to constantly check my phone to make sure I don't miss my FP+ time.
13. Slow internet in the parks, thus making it difficult to use the whole MME in the park.
14. Long lines at the FP+ kiosks.
15. System goes down too often

 

[Praying Colonel]

I'd qualify it more than that. We haven't been on the DP for years, "free" or paid. We're not locals. I admit a lot of people use it, but I think it's a stretch to say "almost everyone who goes to DW is" on the DP.

Agreed. We use TiW now, but even before that the last time we did DDP was "free" dining 2009. DDP doesn't work for us on many levels.

 

[ChimCher-ee]

Absolutely. I just went to New Orleans for a 4 day trip and planned absolutely nothing. I did everything spontaneously and it was great. I even booked a swamp airboat ride the morning of. All the restaurants I wanted were available day of. Last December, I went to Puerto Rico, and again planned absolutely nothing. Everything was spontaneous. So to answer your question, yes the oasis the author is looking for exists in lots of places that are potentially even more fun that Disney World.

I've been thinking about this. Thanks for giving specifics, because I have wondered whether the posters who have a great time without planning are actually doing things the places are known for, or just soaking up the atmosphere. Low key by design.

You got a lot out of your trips, and all I can say is, I wish I could lay off sometimes. But it's so difficult for me! And no one in my family would let it slide if we got there and, say, couldn't get on the airboat (for us it was the Everglades one time, but I even read up on that enough to let the ticket purchase slide until we got there). Maybe I'll try a different approach someday. Without hijacking the thread--any quick tips? Is it a mindset, do you travel this way all the time, or do you plan some but not others? Is it a matter of expectations? Just curious how people pull it off.

PS Thanks for addessing the DL thing--having only been once when I was 8 and not in charge of p!anning anything, I was starting to wonder if DL exists on a different plane entirely.

 

[Kalliope]

I understand perfectly what you're saying but I have to compare DL OOP to DW DP because I'm always on DP when I go to Disney World. Almost everyone who goes to DW is. IMO, it doesn't make sense for me just to compare OOP costs between the two since that isn't my reality.

No they aren't.

 

[savvy?71]

MillauFr:↑
Disneyland is much easier and many of the rides are better. They should have just gone there.



I've been hearing this a lot lately on various threads. If someone says they're tired of DW planning, someone suggests they go to DL. DL isn't convenient for everyone. It's generally more expensive than DW and if you're midwest/east coast, the flights aren't exactly cheap or convenient.

I've never liked the whole "just go >insert destination< instead". It's dismissive of all the dynamics. And I agree it's not always the easiest alternative (we are from the East Coast, NH, and wanted to wait until our kids were older enough for me to deal with them dealing with the flight ha!). But honestly, WDW has been frustrating. So much down, so much empty, so much in the works (but what exactly? when? and why so late to refresh parks?), the whole FP+ (we don't hate it but it's more frustrating than enhancing to us). We finally did a west coast trip this summer. Despite the heat (very hot in August but still preferable to Florida in August), despite the crowds (DL's 60th anniversary plus summertime = high crowds), it was absolutely the best Disney vacation we've had in years. We knew how to maneuver the crowds, used all our tricks, had FP legacy to enjoy, and the ease of 2 parks instead of 4. And there is so much jam packed in DL's 2 parks that I'd wager there's more to do in those 2 parks than what is in WDW's 4 parks right now. Omigosh, Carsland alone was worth it! All with less running around like a crazy person worried about FP & ADR times (did I mention you really don't need ADRs in DL? We walked in everywhere or made same day). Characters roaming (yet no chaos!), and different characters we never or rarely see at WDW. What it came down to was despite the higher cost to travel (though not outrageously so) and longer travel, DL gave our family more 'bang for the buck.". Very fulfilling vacation. So my advice to someone frustrated or bored with WDW is instead of going AGAIN, wait a bit & put vacation funds toward Disneyland (get a refreshed outlook on all things Disney--what better way than the original park!) -- make a great trip out of it with San Diego (the zoo, La Jolla...), Universal, Hollywood...and if you have extra time really shake it up and explore Yosemite! Or yes, try other destinations (we've alternated with cruises, different islands, etc...).

 

[margot31]

He makes some valid points. I can remember when fast pass in general was just out. I had just graduated high school my whole family went, aunts, uncles, grandparents..... We were going to have dinner as a family at brown derby and we wanted to go on RNRC and ToT. So 3 of us took everyones tickets who wanted to go and went and ran and got fast passes. Went back to the restaurant ate dinner and went running back to the rides to be there in time.

This is my first trip back (i have gone since) that is so technology there. It has been amazing that in 3 years (last time I went) how much disney had already changed. The good thing is I am a stay at home mom who during nap time can plan this trip but at the same time i agree that i miss some aspects of the old disney too.

 

[MillauFr]

What it came down to was despite the higher cost to travel (though not outrageously so) and longer travel, DL gave our family more 'bang for the buck.". Very fulfilling vacation. So my advice to someone frustrated or bored with WDW is instead of going AGAIN, wait a bit & put vacation funds toward Disneyland (get a refreshed outlook on all things Disney--what better way than the original park!)

I couldn't have said it better myself. I think many people just get in a rut and never consider going to Disneyland which is unfortunate. They just assume because DW is bigger that it is better. This couldn't be further from the truth. They are both great it their own way. It is just that Disneyland does not require excessive planning.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've been thinking about this. Thanks for giving specifics, because I have wondered whether the posters who have a great time without planning are actually doing things the places are known for, or just soaking up the atmosphere. Low key by design.

I think I said earlier in this thread that we took 3 trips this summer and didn't plan ahead for any of them. To answer your question, yes, we did the things the places are known for. We are not low key by design people overall, but we don't plan ahead when it isn't necessary to do so. We had no problems doing the tourist attractions in any of the places we went, nor any dining issues (eating all local, no chains). wdw is the only.place we go where we have found it necessary to plan so much in advance (Or accept the consequence of.missing out if you don't plan ahead).

 

[ArwenMarie]

I've been hearing this a lot lately on various threads. If someone says they're tired of DW planning, someone suggests they go to DL. DL isn't convenient for everyone. It's generally more expensive than DW and if you're midwest/east coast, the flights aren't exactly cheap or convenient.

I agree, I don't think WDW and DL are interchangeable trips, dependent on where you live. Coming from the East Coast, it is a totally different trip in my head when I look at airfares and length of flight. The two-hour flight from the NY area, for example, feels like a bus ride compared to a cross-country flight. Not to say it's not worth it, but definitely more effort and $ depending on your situation.

 

[MillauFr]

I understand perfectly what you're saying but I have to compare DL OOP to DW DP because I'm always on DP when I go to Disney World. Almost everyone who goes to DW is. IMO, it doesn't make sense for me just to compare OOP costs between the two since that isn't my reality.

The Dining Plan cost more and you lose flexibility over what you can order. I cant count the number of times the cashier at Captain Cooks had to explain to people what they could and could not order on the Dining Plan. I just asked the cashier why people would pay top dollar to have their choice taken away from them. The whole plan made no sense to me. I don't want some Disney employee telling me what I can and can not order.

 

[Planogirl]

LOL come on dude. Why not say Christmas Day, Saturday, 7pm? I remember in my late teens going in the 90s and even early 2000s (pre dining plan) and walked right up to Le Celier and asked for a table without an ADR. And by the way, it may not have been Saturday at 7pm, but was in the summer (because I was still in high school/college). So we were going at busy times and had no problem at all walking up to some of Disney's best restaurants.

You could easily get into Le Cellier back in the day when it was a cafeteria style place. I liked it for lunch occasionally partially because it was never crowded.

That all changed when it was converted into a steakhouse. It became a hot ticket along with the Italian restaurant and you'd better plan wisely for it.