Came across this article from an average guest

[BeachClub2014]

Don't hype that too much or that will be the next premium dinner package that allows you to get a glimpse of the backstage magic! Throw in a cupcake and it can be yours for the low price of $199 a person.

Subject to the 24-hour cancellation rule for ADR's......although with a new twist. In the spirit of true synergy with MDE, any last minute (meaning less than 24-hours) cancellations will result in the loss of any Figment FP+'s held in your MDE account.

 

[Robo]

Subject to the 24-hour cancellation rule for ADR's......although with a new twist. In the spirit of true synergy with MDE, any last minute (meaning less than 24-hours) cancellations will result in the loss of any Figment FP+'s held in your MDE account.

 

[MrInfinity]

..... so the obvious solution is to post the exact opposite, perhaps leaving people with the mistaken impression that there is lots of same day availability at numerous restaurants just waiting for them to fill?

Oh my. It's just extreme after extreme. Can we not have a conversation with some degree of middle ground? It's obviously not "there is lots of same day availability at.. Le Cellier.. BoG.. CRT"... but it's also not, "you must make reservations at 6am 180 days out or you'll get nothing". Come on folks. We know the system is a whole spectrum of in between.

I would venture that most guests, which includes almost all of those not out here on the Dis, do not plan down to the minute when they will get online to get reservations. Yet they end up eating and having wonderful trips. And then there are a few guests who will get on at 6:01 because they want a specific BOG. There is everything in between! People are posting all over that you can get reservations to many of the restaurants all along the planning process, up till the day of. Will you get a specific thing you need? Maybe not! If you have a specific need, then plan it earlier. If your specific thing is one of the competitive things that us Dis'ers like to race for, then get it as soon as it's available, because you're competing with *each other* to get that 8am BOG which only seats a few hundred or whatever. You are only competing with other Dis'ers and planners. The rest of the mobs of guests will book over the following weeks. When I book at 6am, I then proceed to check over the next few weeks and watch as fewer and fewer times are available. Now, there isn't much avail for November times, cuz we're early in the 180 time but not yet near the cancellation time. Things will open up, guests will not go hungry.

It's just not as complicated as you all are making it out to be. And if everyone on the Dis was to drop all their double and triple reservations - right now - I bet we'd see a HUGE amount free on the site. These ressies will open up eventually, thanks to the non-cancellation fee.

Then, as an experiment on your next trip, please refrain from booking CRT, BOG, Ohana's, Chef Mickey's, Le Celier at the max time. Please call the morning of when you would like to dine at these fine establishments and then report back your success rate.

Again extreme. Why make such a challenge as to eat day-of at WDW, but make it such that you must get the 5 hardest reservations to get into? Just for kicks, I picked 170 days out (Sat Feb 27)... this is not at 180+10, not 180 even, but 10 days into the booking window. Know what? All 5 of the restaurants had good dinner times avail for 4. So clearly it is *not* imperative to go on at 180 days, even for your cherry-picked 5 most difficult places to get into.

The urgency to book at 180 days and to book several things is totally self-imposed!

 

[BeachClub2014]

It's just not as complicated as you all are making it out to be. And if everyone on the Dis was to drop all their double and triple reservations - *right now* - I bet we'd see a HUGE amount free on the site.

Apparently it is more complicated than you all are making it out to be, otherwise there would be no need for double and triple reservations in order to make ADR's align with your ride ration allotment.

 

[MrInfinity]

Apparently it is more complicated than you all are making it out to be, otherwise there would be no need for double and triple reservations in order to make ADR's align with your ride ration allotment.

That's a self-imposed complication. As I said, if nobody would double-book, you wouldn't need to. But since you come out here and discuss as a group that you need to double book, you do. You are just competing against each other.

 

[jason10mm]

I've not read this entire thread so maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I almost wonder if all this preplanning "friction" is just so they can roll out 'scripted' plans that "take all the worry out of Disney". I.e. you pick "Plan D "(of 20) where you show up at Park X at 10:00 and get to do certain rides in a specific order, take a lunch break at a narrow list of places, do some more rides in order, etc. Basically "fastpass" an ENTIRE DAY.

Of course there is a teeny tiny price premium for this "hassle free" vacation

 

[BeachClub2014]

That's a self-imposed complication. As I said, if nobody would double-book, you wouldn't need to. But since you come out here and discuss as a group that you need to double book, you do. You are just competing against each other.

Hmmm, I have never actually said people should double book. But I can understand why some do.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Oh my. It's just extreme after extreme. Can we not have a conversation with some degree of middle ground? It's obviously not "there is lots of same day availability at.. Le Cellier.. BoG.. CRT"... but it's also not, "you must make reservations at 6am 180 days out or you'll get nothing". Come on folks. We know the system is a whole spectrum of in between.

I would venture that most guests, which includes almost all of those not out here on the Dis, do not plan down to the minute when they will get online to get reservations. Yet they end up eating and having wonderful trips. And then there are a few guests who will get on at 6:01 because they want a specific BOG. There is everything in between! People are posting all over that you can get reservations to many of the restaurants all along the planning process, up till the day of. Will you get a specific thing you need? Maybe not! If you have a specific need, then plan it earlier. If your specific thing is one of the competitive things that us Dis'ers like to race for, then get it as soon as it's available, because you're competing with *each other* to get that 8am BOG which only seats a few hundred or whatever. You are only competing with other Dis'ers and planners. The rest of the mobs of guests will book over the following weeks. When I book at 6am, I then proceed to check over the next few weeks and watch as fewer and fewer times are available. Now, there isn't much avail for November times, cuz we're early in the 180 time but not yet near the cancellation time. Things will open up, guests will not go hungry.

It's just not as complicated as you all are making it out to be. And if everyone on the Dis was to drop all their double and triple reservations - *right now* - I bet we'd see a HUGE amount free on the site. These ressies will open up eventually, thanks to the non-cancellation fee.

Some of this may be true especially if you don't care where and when for anything. Problem is if you're interested in BOG the Tony's isn't exactly an even replacement. Sure they're both TS but that's about as close as it gets. Of course that's also the same argument often used for FP+ since 'Soarin and Journey Into Imagination are both rides you should just be happy you got something.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I've not read this entire thread so maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I almost wonder if all this preplanning "friction" is just so they can roll out 'scripted' plans that "take all the worry out of Disney". I.e. you pick "Plan D "(of 20) where you show up at Park X at 10:00 and get to do certain rides in a specific order, take a lunch break at a narrow list of places, do some more rides in order, etc. Basically "fastpass" an ENTIRE DAY.

Of course there is a teeny tiny price premium for this "hassle free" vacation

This has been my belief from the get go. Replace VIP tours and keep the money without wasting any profit on sending out a guide.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I've not read this entire thread so maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I almost wonder if all this preplanning "friction" is just so they can roll out 'scripted' plans that "take all the worry out of Disney". I.e. you pick "Plan D "(of 20) where you show up at Park X at 10:00 and get to do certain rides in a specific order, take a lunch break at a narrow list of places, do some more rides in order, etc. Basically "fastpass" an ENTIRE DAY.

Of course there is a teeny tiny price premium for this "hassle free" vacation

I'm sure that is on the drawing board somewhere.

 

[MrInfinity]

I've not read this entire thread so maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I almost wonder if all this preplanning "friction" is just so they can roll out 'scripted' plans that "take all the worry out of Disney". I.e. you pick "Plan D "(of 20) where you show up at Park X at 10:00 and get to do certain rides in a specific order, take a lunch break at a narrow list of places, do some more rides in order, etc. Basically "fastpass" an ENTIRE DAY.

Of course there is a teeny tiny price premium for this "hassle free" vacation

Isn't that essentially the VIP packages?

 

[quagmire0]

There's a lot of truth to the article, but in Disney's defense, I'm not sure how they could really make it that much better. I would gather to say that the MAJORITY of Disney World visitors don't pay attention to the FP+ stuff or the ADRs. I'd also gather to say that most visitors just sort of amble in and walk around and play things by ear. This is why things like touring plans work and why you can still find reservations and FastPass+ timeslots after 12:01am.

I'm fine with the ADR's, but I guess my only beef would be in regards to FP+. I think planning your park visit around a meal or two is one thing. Those are natural break times that you would want to take regardless. But having 3+ times where you have to be at points A,B and C at certain times and then arrange everything else around that as well is maddening. ESPECIALLY if you've already made your dining reservations 120 OR 150 days prior. I liked the prior Fastpass system. Yeah, some people tended to run over their own relatives at rope drop. Yeah, they would run out early for the most popular rides on peak season. But shouldn't the FastPass system be a reward for those most organized and engaged guests? Was the whole system in need of leveling the playing field?

 

[Robo]

But shouldn't the FastPass system be a reward for those most organized and engaged guests? Was the whole system in need of leveling the playing field?

Creating a level playing field is unlikely the reason for FP+.
Disney could have much more easily and cheaply instigated many changes in the legacy FP system, if that's what they were after.
(FP only issued every 4 hours. Only one FP per given attraction per guest per day., etc.)

What the FP+ system addresses is the under-availability of acess to highly-sought-after attractions at all of the parks each day.

 

[MamaCrystal]

I had a very similar sentiment to the author during the initial planning stages of our October 2014 trip. In fact, I almost gave up entirely because I was so disappointed with what the system had turned into. However, I trudged on... researching forums and blogs, studying maps of the parks, touring plans, and restaurant reviews. In the end, we had a fabulous trip that went off without a hitch (well, at least the planning... we did end up with 3 out of 4 kids sick throughout the week!). We ended up very happy and hubby, who thought the planning was insane and doubted it would all be worth it, was thrilled with all the work I had done and was already planning our next trip on the car ride home. Everyone who now hears about how much research and planning went into that trip gasps in shock and disbelief. In the end, it IS very overwhelming for a newbie who wants that ideal experience... low crowds, good weather, short lines, great ADR's, and a plan that maximizes time in order to see the best highlights WDW in a 6 night stay. In our experience, all that stress of planning was worth it though! While we thought we'd only take one family trip while our kids are children, we're now waiting on ROFR for a DVC contract and dreaming of our next trip. All of the planning with the new technology that felt so daunting before is now something we're looking forward to doing together! Maybe the author will feel the same after their trip...

 

[cmarsh31]

I had a very similar sentiment to the author during the initial planning stages of our October 2014 trip. In fact, I almost gave up entirely because I was so disappointed with what the system had turned into. However, I trudged on... researching forums and blogs, studying maps of the parks, touring plans, and restaurant reviews. In the end, we had a fabulous trip that went off without a hitch (well, at least the planning... we did end up with 3 out of 4 kids sick throughout the week!). We ended up very happy and hubby, who thought the planning was insane and doubted it would all be worth it, was thrilled with all the work I had done and was already planning our next trip on the car ride home. Everyone who now hears about how much research and planning went into that trip gasps in shock and disbelief. In the end, it IS very overwhelming for a newbie who wants that ideal experience... low crowds, good weather, short lines, great ADR's, and a plan that maximizes time in order to see the best highlights WDW in a 6 night stay. In our experience, all that stress of planning was worth it though! While we thought we'd only take one family trip while our kids are children, we're now waiting on ROFR for a DVC contract and dreaming of our next trip. All of the planning with the new technology that felt so daunting before is now something we're looking forward to doing together! Maybe the author will feel the same after their trip...

Yes, exactly all of that - we were there in Oct 2014 as well. We had gone once before but it was an off-site stay (and honestly, since we didn't get there for rope drop, it really sucked. It was August - all of the Soarin' FPs were gone both days we went to Epcot before we got there, it stormed HUGE during our Space Mountain FP and instead of the new system of an "any time" FP that we got this time around when the same thing happened, it just got pushed back a couple hours to when we had an ADR). Halfway through the trip, my DH basically worshiped me for all of the pre-planning that led to no wasted time trying to coordinate 9 people for meals or where we were meeting up or all the other stress that comes with multiple families and multiple resorts trying to travel together. We're currently planning a Feb '17 trip with even more knowledge!

 

[WebmasterMike]

I also think an issue that's new is the advent of the ADR sniping sites. I think that's changed the calculus of finding cancelled ADRs that come up.

This is exactly what it is. In Disney's rush to take as much of your money as possible they've created two lock in programs that hit at different times and may conflict with each other. Why not hedge your bets with BOG to see when you can get 7dmt or A&E. If you take one BOG and it's not on the day you can get either hot ticket items at MK then where does that leave you. Add in the fact that other companies have realized they can profit off the system and the end result is a major loss for the guest.

These are the reasons that I do not participate in FP+(except for special occasions) and ADR's. WDW has created a huge hole, especially in dining, where I can get a walk-up to almost any restaurant. During SWW, I was able to get two walk-ups to the completely "sold-out" Sci-Fi Dine-in breakfast on two different days over two different weekends. I have had no problem getting a walk-up to Jiko and Yachtsman as well. It is not worth the worry or the bother. My son and I "single-rider" test track and are vigilant about checking wait times for most other rides. FP+ and ADR's have no value for us during our trips. The only time I have had to use FP+ is for special events during SWWs (Special guest talks). We also prefer to be spontaneous on our trips and not structure our days based on Fast Passes and ADR's.

 

[flicx]

We also prefer to be spontaneous on our trips and not structure our days based on Fast Passes and ADR's.

This I can agree on. Plus is not condusive to spontaneity.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Now, there isn't much avail for November times, cuz we're early in the 180 time but not yet near the cancellation time.

We are early in the 180 time? November 180 day marks started back in May. It's september...4 months later out of a 6 month window. it is before cancellation times, yes, but I wouldn't call it "early" in the 180 days.

 

[quagmire0]

I had a very similar sentiment to the author during the initial planning stages of our October 2014 trip. In fact, I almost gave up entirely because I was so disappointed with what the system had turned into. However, I trudged on... researching forums and blogs, studying maps of the parks, touring plans, and restaurant reviews. In the end, we had a fabulous trip that went off without a hitch (well, at least the planning... we did end up with 3 out of 4 kids sick throughout the week!). We ended up very happy and hubby, who thought the planning was insane and doubted it would all be worth it, was thrilled with all the work I had done and was already planning our next trip on the car ride home. Everyone who now hears about how much research and planning went into that trip gasps in shock and disbelief. In the end, it IS very overwhelming for a newbie who wants that ideal experience... low crowds, good weather, short lines, great ADR's, and a plan that maximizes time in order to see the best highlights WDW in a 6 night stay. In our experience, all that stress of planning was worth it though! While we thought we'd only take one family trip while our kids are children, we're now waiting on ROFR for a DVC contract and dreaming of our next trip. All of the planning with the new technology that felt so daunting before is now something we're looking forward to doing together! Maybe the author will feel the same after their trip...

For me, the planning is half the adventure! I spend so much time planning ahead of time and looking forward to the trip and then it's over in an instant. I remembered the first trip I planned in 2011. So much time spent on this board, reading the Unofficial Guide, crowd calendars, reading reviews, finding a condo, price-monitoring flights and car rentals, etc. etc. I created an entire spreadsheet with multiple tabs that I still use to this day. When we got there, my wife became a believer in the touring plan concept very quickly. Despite going in June, with two young kids, things went very smoothly and we had a great time. Just about everything I had planned went off without a hitch.

 

[bcrook]

For me, the planning is half the adventure! I spend so much time planning ahead of time and looking forward to the trip and then it's over in an instant. I remembered the first trip I planned in 2011. So much time spent on this board, reading the Unofficial Guide, crowd calendars, reading reviews, finding a condo, price-monitoring flights and car rentals, etc. etc. I created an entire spreadsheet with multiple tabs that I still use to this day. When we got there, my wife became a believer in the touring plan concept very quickly. Despite going in June, with two young kids, things went very smoothly and we had a great time. Just about everything I had planned went off without a hitch.

I'm part of the spreadsheet with multiple tabs club. It is beneficial to do all that planning (and sometimes fun when things all work). I enjoy my trips! But I've never experienced this "without a hitch" thing you are talking about. I am envious.