Calling in sick to work

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

like what? firing people? Requiring Drs notes for call ins? As evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, people have no problems calling in, even when they like their jobs or feel valued by their jobs. No amount of being a great employer is going to over come a bad work ethic. You can give some employees everything they ask for and they still are only going to care about themselves.

At the same time if you're having enough employees call out at once it's probably one of two things:

1) Poor hiring practices (which to be fair it can be difficult at the moment when it comes to finding people to hire depending on the occupation)

2) Workplace issues on the side of the employer

Poor work ethic can't be the answer to every situation, nor having enough employees call out on the same day habitually unless it falls under #1. And to be fair an employee can give an employer everything they ask for and the employer may only still care about themselves. A poor working environment is just as bad as poor work ethic on part of the employee, at least IMO.

 

[dez1978]

If a company can't handle someone calling out for a day, that's poor management and poor planning on their part. Of course their is exceptions to this.

If it's a large company, I agree. But for instance, we have a couple of small restaurants here in town. One is a sandwich shop, that opened right before Covid. In order to run they really only need 3-4 employees there at a time. 10 total employees probably, maybe 15 max. They end up closing early quite often due to call ins, simply because they don't have the staff. You can't really schedule extra staff each shift because either the cost of paying 1-2 extra people for a full time shift really makes a huge difference in labor costs for a business that small, and you can't really continuously schedule people to come to work and then send them home when everyone shows up either, because staff will get tired of showing up just to be sent home. The other is a full service place. Its actually the nicest place in our small town. They end up closing a couple times a month because they don't have staff. Its usually servers that they don't have enough of according to my friend who works there. We are a small college town so a lot of the staff they have are college students, and they make a ton working there, and are treated pretty well (again, according to my friend who has worked there for about 5 years). Places like that just can't run without the staff to do it.

 

[dez1978]

At the same time if you're having enough employees call out at once it's probably one of two things:

1) Poor hiring practices (which to be fair it can be difficult at the moment when it comes to finding people to hire depending on the occupation)

2) Workplace issues on the side of the employer

Poor work ethic can't be the answer to every situation, nor having enough employees call out on the same day habitually unless it falls under #1. And to be fair an employee can give an employer everything they ask for and the employer may only still care about themselves. A poor working environment is just as bad as poor work ethic on part of the employee, at least IMO.

I don't disagree. I've worked in plenty of places where the employer doesn't care about me. But if you only have a few employees that work at one time, it doesn't take many to call in to cause a huge problem. If you have 5 people who work at 1 time and 2 call in, thats a big deal. I think in the grand scheme of things, when people have these discussions about workplaces, whether it's about pay, calling in, insurance, or whatever, people focus on the larger companies that have a ton of employees. Or huge corps like Walmart and Amazon. We make these sweeping statements about how the employer should do this or that, or obviously they don't treat their employees well or they need to do more. Completely ignoring the fact that there are a TON of small businesses out there that cannot run the same, pay the same, have the same benefits as the huge businesses. Its absolutely possible that a business owner can pay well (or as well as they can), care about their employees and their product, promote a good working environment and STILL have employees with a poor work ethic. You aren't wrong, that it isn't always that the employee is in the wrong, but it's not always the employer either like these posts make it seem.

 

[Skywalker]

Bosses or owners rarely miss work due to illness. So I guess it’s hard for them to believe. One thing is feeling ill and another is being sick. So many call off feeling ill but are in the next day. If a person is going to not feel well they might as well feel that way at work. Another is being sick and under a doctors care.

Well owners I can understand not wanting to call in sick. Heck they should be pouring blood sweat and tears into making their business work. However, in no universe will I ever be as motivated as you are, to make you rich lol.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't disagree. I've worked in plenty of places where the employer doesn't care about me. But if you only have a few employees that work at one time, it doesn't take many to call in to cause a huge problem. If you have 5 people who work at 1 time and 2 call in, thats a big deal. I think in the grand scheme of things, when people have these discussions about workplaces, whether it's about pay, calling in, insurance, or whatever, people focus on the larger companies that have a ton of employees. Or huge corps like Walmart and Amazon. We make these sweeping statements about how the employer should do this or that, or obviously they don't treat their employees well or they need to do more. Completely ignoring the fact that there are a TON of small businesses out there that cannot run the same, pay the same, have the same benefits as the huge businesses. Its absolutely possible that a business owner can pay well (or as well as they can), care about their employees and their product, promote a good working environment and STILL have employees with a poor work ethic. You aren't wrong, that it isn't always that the employee is in the wrong, but it's not always the employer either like these posts make it seem.

I've worked for my alma mater's bookstore. At the store location I was hired at and spent most of my time at there were only 5 employees for that location and you often worked alone maybe another person at times and if it was super busy (like football game) 3 people. I was a key holder. I had to lock up the store to go to the bathroom (as it was not located within the store) and to take my breaks and sometimes my lunches though they often scheduled someone overlapping if you were on the clock long enough for a lunch. If the key holder called in yeah it's going to be a scramble to find someone.

I worked for Spirit Halloween 3 seasons where normally there was maybe 10 employees total for that store (and there wasn't another store location for 30+miles) often only 2-3 on the clock at a time, and it was a college town with many of us college students at that time.

My aunt and uncle own a small business, my step-father-in-law runs a small business insurance company (though does well in commissions he has only a handful of employees), my husband's stepbrother owns a small business (though he just bought a larger building) and he has 3 or 4 employees I believe.

I get it with the small businesses. That still leaves the same 2 reasons IMO. None of those small businesses I mentioned have the huge amount of benefits but that actually means the workplace environment becomes even more important when lack of benefits is there. A person may put up with something more at a company with a lot of benefits because of those benefits. That tolerance may be less when there's few to none benefits to be had especially if things like health insurance mean a larger cost on the employee on the market.

I do agree it's not always the employer it's why I mentioned poor work ethic too but I was responding more to what you were saying. Maybe the PP was thinking something along the policies set up. Like if the policy is you monitor their social media then that should be advised to them so that when you hear they call out sick but are hanging out at the pool you can say that's a strike against the employee. What kind of time off policies are there? Is there a reason an employee feels they must say they are sick even when they aren't? Like time off isn't really permitted much unless it's due to illness? That would remind me of school days when you say you're sick just so it could be an excused absence. Do the employees feel like they are just there to work to make the owner that $10K in sales for that day? These are all thinking out loud things. I totally get your side and where you're coming from though.

 

[White Cat]

Well owners I can understand not wanting to call in sick. Heck they should be pouring blood sweat and tears into making their business work. However, in no universe will I ever be as motivated as you are, to make you rich lol.

Many begrudge people for doing the right things to become what you describe as rich. Some are willing and have a desire to succeed. Some don’t. If the ones who don’t are happy living that type of life good for them. I separate myself from those with that mind set. And feel bad for them. I prefer to be around highly motivated individuals that have a positive mind set.

 

[Skywalker]

Many begrudge people for doing the right things to become what you describe as rich. Some are willing and have a desire to succeed. Some don’t. If the ones who don’t are happy living that type of life good for them. I separate myself from those with that mind set. And feel bad for them. I prefer to be around highly motivated individuals that have a positive mind set.

You miss my point. I dont begrudge anyone doing whatever they can to get ahead and get as rich as possible. More people should. My point was, I am highly motivated to grow my own fortunes - not yours. Too bad if you don't understand that.

 

[dez1978]

I've worked for my alma mater's bookstore. At the store location I was hired at and spent most of my time at there were only 5 employees for that location and you often worked alone maybe another person at times and if it was super busy (like football game) 3 people. I was a key holder. I had to lock up the store to go to the bathroom (as it was not located within the store) and to take my breaks and sometimes my lunches though they often scheduled someone overlapping if you were on the clock long enough for a lunch. If the key holder called in yeah it's going to be a scramble to find someone.

I worked for Spirit Halloween 3 seasons where normally there was maybe 10 employees total for that store (and there wasn't another store location for 30+miles) often only 2-3 on the clock at a time, and it was a college town with many of us college students at that time.

My aunt and uncle own a small business, my step-father-in-law runs a small business insurance company (though does well in commissions he has only a handful of employees), my husband's stepbrother owns a small business (though he just bought a larger building) and he has 3 or 4 employees I believe.

I get it with the small businesses. That still leaves the same 2 reasons IMO. None of those small businesses I mentioned have the huge amount of benefits but that actually means the workplace environment becomes even more important when lack of benefits is there. A person may put up with something more at a company with a lot of benefits because of those benefits. That tolerance may be less when there's few to none benefits to be had especially if things like health insurance mean a larger cost on the employee on the market.

I do agree it's not always the employer it's why I mentioned poor work ethic too but I was responding more to what you were saying. Maybe the PP was thinking something along the policies set up. Like if the policy is you monitor their social media then that should be advised to them so that when you hear they call out sick but are hanging out at the pool you can say that's a strike against the employee. What kind of time off policies are there? Is there a reason an employee feels they must say they are sick even when they aren't? Like time off isn't really permitted much unless it's due to illness? That would remind me of school days when you say you're sick just so it could be an excused absence. Do the employees feel like they are just there to work to make the owner that $10K in sales for that day? These are all thinking out loud things. I totally get your side and where you're coming from though.

Currently, we are just in a mess. Almost everyone is struggling for employees around here, regardless of what type of business it is. I think that makes bosses less tolerant of call ins as well. Restaurants, stores, insurance agencies, schools, hospitals, you name it. With pretty much everywhere here having the same issue I can't say that it's an issue with the employers themselves. Not everyplace can be a bad place to work. I also can't say that it's only poor work ethic, because we have plenty of people around who still come to work every day and bust their butts to do a good job. And I know there are people who are not working right now because they or their families are high risk. I fear though, that we are in sort of a spiral/domino effect thing right now, and that really worries me. The people who are working are getting tired of doing the work that would normally be assigned to multiple people. Regardless of how well they are treated or paid, eventually they are going to get burnt out. Which leaves even less people working. Less people in factories making goods, food etc. Less truck drivers to deliver those goods. Less people working in the stores to stock those things. and so on and so on.

 

[lifesavacation]

The other issue in states like California, employers here are required to give workers two additional weeks of sick time to deal with covid. So if you call in sick here and it is related to covid, you would want to disclose that so it doesn't count against your regular sick time.

I just got a reimbursement check yesterday from the US Treasury that covered the sick pay of an employee who had to quarantine. I’m not sure if they do this for all company sizes, but for some businesses, this time off is reimbursed by the federal government.

 

[AndreaDM]

I disagree that "one can either work or they can't".... sometimes you can handle working from home but not going to work. If I have let's say a really bad cold, coming into the office to work requires getting dressed up, commuting, etc. It's hard to put makeup on with a runny nose and eyes and sneeze your way downtown on the subway. Once there you'd probably still have to take frequent nose-blowing breaks or close-my-eyes-for-a-moment-while-my-head-pounds break, or make-another-mug-of-tea breaks.

Much different story if I can just stay in my pajamas with a box of kleenex and work from home. I can be sick and no one cares. Maybe I would need to take a little more down time in the day but I could still get my required stuff done and be available and working. At least it's being honest rather than make a show of being in the office but not being all that much more productive anyway lol.

As an aside, in general I do think bosses should measure outcomes rather than "butts in seats". I get more done working from home on a sluggish sick day, than a certain co-worker of mine gets done in a week of showing up healthy and fashionably dressed.

Yes, exactly this!! I've been sick since Friday, finally starting to feel better today but still working from home. I'm coughing and sneezing, no one wants to be around that! And although I can work, the thought of getting dressed in nice clothes and real shoes and doing my hair is exhausting! Thankfully I have an awesome manager who is happy to let me work from home!

 

[DisneyOma]

like what? firing people? Requiring Drs notes for call ins? As evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, people have no problems calling in, even when they like their jobs or feel valued by their jobs. No amount of being a great employer is going to over come a bad work ethic. You can give some employees everything they ask for and they still are only going to care about themselves.

I was responding to a scenario where the employer would lose $10000 in sales - so maybe some of that profit should be given to the employees, like a commission, if attendance is an issue.

Many begrudge people for doing the right things to become what you describe as rich. Some are willing and have a desire to succeed. Some don’t. If the ones who don’t are happy living that type of life good for them. I separate myself from those with that mind set. And feel bad for them. I prefer to be around highly motivated individuals that have a positive mind set.

Different things motivate different people - not all people want to be driven by making money. If you just want to be around people who want to make a profit, and get rich, watch your assets, IMO.

 

[GreatLakes]

As a boss I dislike the expectation that employees can sort of/kind of work from home when they're sick instead of taking sick days. It's really a bit of gaming the system. One can either work or they can't. Taking at least a 1/2 day sick would more honestly represent the situation. I am so glad we don't have one big lump of PTO and our sick days are use-or-lose.

It isn't about whether they can work or they can't. If they are sick but want to work I don't want them coming in to get everyone else sick. I tell my staff if you want to take a day take a day. We are small and need coverage so there will be times you have to work sick (remotely) if too many other people are already off but outside of that I don't care if you take PTO when sick or work when sick. If you choose the later do it remotely so you aren't getting anyone else sick.

 

[White Cat]

You miss my point. I dont begrudge anyone doing whatever they can to get ahead and get as rich as possible. More people should. My point was, I am highly motivated to grow my own fortunes - not yours. Too bad if you don't understand that.

Then start a business and don’t complain. That’s if you already haven’t. Best way is to start one. Build it. Then sell it. Then do it again.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

I called out sick once, needed surgery, not life threatening but needed to be done that day. I got written up for it. I even had the surgery at the hospital I worked out. Yep, they still wrote me up.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

Then start a business and don’t complain. That’s if you already haven’t. Best way is to start one. Build it. Then sell it. Then do it again.

ignoratio elenchi

 

[CdnCarrie]

I called out sick once, needed surgery, not life threatening but needed to be done that day. I got written up for it. I even had the surgery at the hospital I worked out. Yep, they still wrote me up.

That's really odd.

 

[dez1978]

I was responding to a scenario where the employer would lose $10000 in sales - so maybe some of that profit should be given to the employees, like a commission, if attendance is an issue.



Different things motivate different people - not all people want to be driven by making money. If you just want to be around people who want to make a profit, and get rich, watch your assets, IMO.

You really think that $10,000 is enough in sales for there to be profit sharing? I'm sorry, but maybe you should take a look at some overhead and profit margins of restaurants these days. Those are the types of businesses I am talking about. You shouldn't have to dangle a bonus or commission to get people to do the very basic tenants of their jobs, like come to work. Thats what your hourly pay is for. when you go above the basic expectations of your job, then bonuses is something you talk about.

And I don't really know anyone who money isn't at least somewhat of a motivating factor. Not everyone wants to get rich. But everyone wants to make money. Thats the very basis of your 1st statement. "maybe there should be profit sharing" would indicated that wanting money is in fact a driving force. Do you really know anyone who makes the kind of personal and financial sacrifices it takes to open an business that wants to lose money? No because that would be stupid. No one would have a business if they didn't want to make a profit. But there is a big difference between owning a successful business and being rich. Unless you have very low standards of what it means to be rich. I use McDonalds a lot bc it's easy to find numbers for. But if Joe owns 1 McDonalds and it is run perfectly, it has an approximate profit of 6%. Which is 150K. Some of which has to be set aside to be put back into the business. I wouldn't consider Joe rich, or someone you need to :watch your assets around". He's just someone who wants to make enough to provide well for his family.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I think there is a huge difference between a minimum wage restaurant worker calling in sick and someone in a professional office setting.
For example I work in a unionized semi-government organization with professional staff. I get paid sick leave.

My work has nothing to do with profits, bonuses, sales, etc. If I have a stomach flu you bet your fanny I'm staying home and getting better.
I don't want to spread that around. And no I'm not working from home if I'm sick.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Currently, we are just in a mess. Almost everyone is struggling for employees around here, regardless of what type of business it is. I think that makes bosses less tolerant of call ins as well. Restaurants, stores, insurance agencies, schools, hospitals, you name it. With pretty much everywhere here having the same issue I can't say that it's an issue with the employers themselves. Not everyplace can be a bad place to work. I also can't say that it's only poor work ethic, because we have plenty of people around who still come to work every day and bust their butts to do a good job. And I know there are people who are not working right now because they or their families are high risk. I fear though, that we are in sort of a spiral/domino effect thing right now, and that really worries me. The people who are working are getting tired of doing the work that would normally be assigned to multiple people. Regardless of how well they are treated or paid, eventually they are going to get burnt out. Which leaves even less people working. Less people in factories making goods, food etc. Less truck drivers to deliver those goods. Less people working in the stores to stock those things. and so on and so on.

Well yes the pandemic is well a mess, but I don't know that what you were talking about was strictly pandemic related. I got the impression you were speaking about things in general about employees calling out sick when not sick and if enough did it to where the business had to close for the day due to lack of employees but I honestly could have been wrong about that.

 

[DisneyOma]

You really think that $10,000 is enough in sales for there to be profit sharing? I'm sorry, but maybe you should take a look at some overhead and profit margins of restaurants these days. Those are the types of businesses I am talking about. You shouldn't have to dangle a bonus or commission to get people to do the very basic tenants of their jobs, like come to work. Thats what your hourly pay is for. when you go above the basic expectations of your job, then bonuses is something you talk about.

And I don't really know anyone who money isn't at least somewhat of a motivating factor. Not everyone wants to get rich. But everyone wants to make money. Thats the very basis of your 1st statement. "maybe there should be profit sharing" would indicated that wanting money is in fact a driving force. Do you really know anyone who makes the kind of personal and financial sacrifices it takes to open an business that wants to lose money? No because that would be stupid. No one would have a business if they didn't want to make a profit. But there is a big difference between owning a successful business and being rich. Unless you have very low standards of what it means to be rich. I use McDonalds a lot bc it's easy to find numbers for. But if Joe owns 1 McDonalds and it is run perfectly, it has an approximate profit of 6%. Which is 150K. Some of which has to be set aside to be put back into the business. I wouldn't consider Joe rich, or someone you need to :watch your assets around". He's just someone who wants to make enough to provide well for his family.

That's if the employer wants to try to keep the employees he has - then he has to make working for him and not using PTO or "calling in sick" an issue. Also, when you stated profit, you were not clear on it being gross or net, which makes a huge difference in all the things you have listed as barriers to making people actually want to work for an employer who can't keep people from calling in sick. And when an ungodly number of people make barely (or less than) a living wage at McDonald's, while the guy who owns it is taking home enough to "provide well for his family" - you've got it all summed up right there. People shouldn't be working for less than a living wage so some other guy can make a profit. That's why people take their time off when they feel like it, as they want to enjoy a day away from the job. They take a day to actually enjoy their life, on a sunny day at the beach.

We should have a better work environment for all people, not just the ones driven to make money.