California Grill

[disrailfan]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
“Great!! Go buy a barely adequate dinner for an outrageous price!! And don’t forget!! This is DISNEY® Magic!!”

What are you guys talking about. DW and I think that the CG is one of the better places to eat at in Disney World.

I was quite shocked when we were there in June that the Observation Deck was closed to only those that eat dinner at CG, but I thought it was a great idea.

DW and I plan to eat there at least once on every trip, we feel that the dinner is worth the price and I too was a little upset with all of the crowds they had even when they had the lounge / waiting area. There was never enough room for all of those that were waiting on their tables. Matter of fact we have ressies to dine there on our trip the last part of this month.

Guess what, I don't think this change was made because of the all-mighty dollar. I think it was more from customer demand.

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

[WDWHound]

While I see your logic Baron, I am afraid I disagree.

I rememebr the CG back when it was Top of The World and the viewing area was seperate. The sereration was a side effect of the fact that the booths (back when they had booths) used to surround and face the stage on the oposite side of the room. The lounge/viewing area was too far away from the stage to make putting booths there practical. When TotW became CG, the stage was removed, therefore removing problems with putting dining tables in that area. (of course they packed WAY too many tables in there, but thats another issue).

So I agree that the room was designed to use the viewing area as a lounge, but it was also designed as a supper club with a stage. Take away the stage, and the design restrictions change.

Now, lets assume that, in the name of good show, they still desided to set aside that viewing area and not use it for dinig. It would cost them some lost revenue, but it would be worth it if it addressed the crowding problem. Only problem is, I dont think it woud fix anything.

As WDW has grown, more and more people want to use that area. At one point you would have to restict access by some means. The space just can't handle the number of people who want to use it. Now I agree that you could control access by setting up some sort of staging area on the second floor, but why bother? All you have done is cut back on the number of people who can dine at WDW's most popular restaurant AND limit the number of people who can use the viewing area. If you are going to limit the people who can go up there. Doesn't it make sense to limit access to diners only? That way you don't decrease the capaicity of a restaurant that is already hard to get a good PS for and you solve the crowding problem.

The current solution controls the crowds and does not require a popular restaurant to turn more people away. I wish things were like they were in the 70's when such choices were not required, but in today's reality, don't see a better solution.

 

[raidermatt]

I remember the days when we were told that us Disney internet wackos were an insignificant minority, and that the vast majority don't even bother to look at sites like these when planning... that we have no discernable impact.

I guess that's changed.

Yes, they could have tried to manage it differently, but there would still likely be some continued negative impact, even if lessened.

Then why not go the "lessened" route?


Yes, the elevators are crowded right after the fireworks, but since all of the tables in the restaurant are usually still occupied, the only impacted diners would seem to be the ones who already finished and hung around for the show (the rest merely return to their table, not the elevator). Certainly a little extra wait time is to be expected after watching a show at WDW?

And I don't understand the argument that the extra added tables have nothing to do with this... If they reduce the available space, then fewer people can be accomodated, period.

Now, you can make an argument that the tradeoff is worth it, but you can't say there is no impact.

 

[KNWVIKING]

There is no one right answer to this issue. No matter what was/is/could done would inconvience somebody.

IMO people paying money to enjoy something should get first consideration. They include the hotel guest & the CG guests. Even if the other tables were removed, we have no reason to believe that would allow adequate space for all the people wishing to view the fireworks.

I'm certain that even if CG were at capacity there is still room for some non-paying guests to enjoy a rooftop view of the fireworks. But how many and what to you tell those people who will still be turned away when the limit is reached. Which is worse: Letting people know they will not be allowed into CG & the deck without a PS or letting them think "maybe if we show up realllll early we'll be among the few who are allowed up" ? Personally, I'd hate to spend my time heading over to the CR only to be turned away because the quota was filled for the nite.

While our opinions of CG seem to vary, the facts are that it is a very popular location. At least by adding tables they are allowing more guests to enjoy the place. And if that means higher profits for Disney, then it's a win-win.

As for the internets impact on the deck: I only found out about it when Baron posted it was closed about a year or so ago. I've told my niece & her extended family about it.I told my boss and another co-worker about it when they were planning their trips. The Dis has 74k members. How many other chat rooms & forums are out there ? I've got to believe the internet has had a huge impact on all the little "secrets" The World has to offer.

 

[raidermatt]

I've got to believe the internet has had a huge impact on all the little "secrets" The World has to offer.

I do agree with this. While I may not agree completely with the way Disney has handled the CG situation, I do acknowledge that it became more of an issue for them because of the way information spreads these days. More and more people do look to these types of sites, both for information and for a place to chat about common interests.

Its just that when other issues have come up, like the possible negative impact of changing operating hours multiple times, or that many people "around here" aren't happy about something, it has been said that sites like these are an anomoly and represent the "lunatic fringe".

I do agree with that to a certain extent, but its been used as a way of dismissing certain arguments, but now that it supports an opposite argument, the sites are not so insignificant.

Now, Vike, please note that I purposely did not direct this at you in particular, as I honestly don't think you have used that argument.

I'm just putting a little line in the sand, so that if anyone decides to pull that argument back out later, it won't fly.

 

[raidermatt]

I only brought it up because of statements like this:

Greg really hit the nail on the head: because of these type of boards, the deck has become too popular for its own good.

Now, I'm not so obtuse that I will take that literally, that you are saying its the ONLY reason. But I'm also not going to let you backtrack out of it either.

We all know a LOT of folks interested in WDW find these types of boards, and that number grows all the time. Does a significant percentage of the American public look at Disney sites? No, but a significant percentage of Disney visitors do, and again, its a growing number.

That's why Greg said it, and that's why you said it.

Of course, it doesn't change the merits of the CG discussion... Regardless of the whys, the deck has become more popular, and its pretty clear it needed to be addressed.

That's not really in dispute. Its the how that's the issue.

 

[YoHo]

In all fairness to others, I really down there would be any way short of re-engineering the building that you could accomidate as many Fireworks viewers as there are. A restirction had to be placed. While I'm sure increasing the table count in the Grille was done to generate more profits and exacerbates the issue, it is not the root problem. The root problem whether guidebooks or internet is that the old secrets aren't so secret anymore. And as with everything in life, the more people that know about it, the harder it is to keep those clods from ruining it. When it gets to that point, Disney has an obligation to it's Hotel guests and diner customers first. This obligation would not be affected all that much by a return to the old configuration. It's nice to live in that Happy place where you assume that the Imagineers could have imagineered double capacity and new Elevators in an existing building, but Happy places like that demand straight jackets and rubber walls too.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I'm not sure how much of a solution this is or if it's even feasible, but here goes: When you exit the elevator you turn right for the dinning area. You can also turn left for the restrooms. Down that hallway is the exit to what I'll call the East deck. This deck has better views of Bay Lake rather then MK. Would it be possible to bridge the two decks at the Northern end and then place a petition between the two somewhere so as to stop people from going out the East exit & entering CG thru the West deck exit. The non-paying guests could be directed to the East deck, giving them an exceptable view of MK & the fireworks while preserving the premium West deck for paying guests. There would still need to be limits imposed so as to avoid unsafe crowding and tying up the elevators for hotel guests, but for most days of the year I believe it would be sufficient.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

From what I recall of the CG when you exit the elevators the bar is directly in front of you with dining to the left and right. Hence you are deposited in the middle of the restaurant.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't think so Show. Right off the Elevator there is a check in podium/station. You turn right into the restaurant, you pass by the bar on your left.

 

[airlarry!]

I for one have not made up my mind, other than the fact that I thought Matt, as usual, had some ideas that were thought provoking.

So help me here, brother Scoop. Tell me how the decision to add more tables did not adversely affect the dining and viewing experience, if not completely, then in conjunction with the proliferation of guidebook-buying, television-watching but internet-wary Disney travelers.

Now I know it sounds sarcastic, but it really isn't. I'm trying to decide here which one was the culprit -- the decision to mess with the layout of the restaurant, or the fact that more people know about it. Argue against the first, if you don't mind.

 

[bretsyboo]

This is my very favorite thread of all time.

Here we have something Disney offered, that guests really enjoyed.

And they enjoyed it to such a degree that its popularity grew.

And its popularity grew to such an extend that...Disney needs to close it?

And they are gaining praise for doing so. I love it.

My solution is simple. Like anything else you can only have so many people, and in this case we have one of the more spectacular experiences you can get at the WDW resort, eg, the ability to watch fireworks over 2 parks from above the parks. That's one of a kind magic, and now that magic is only for those who can afford the California Grill.

Take out those few extra tables and leave the balcony first come first serve up to a certain number, or take reservations for the balcony itself like you would with anything else. Keep it free, keep it civil, and keep the magic. That seems easy enough to me.

Interestingly, there was an idea floated to charge a small fee to for deck admittance with the idea that this would ease overcrowding.

I think perhaps you are giving, or were fed the official line. I remember specifically when this was happening, and there was little debate. The small fee was 20 dollars a person with the theory that they could order appetizers and drinks if they wanted. It was decided that since the fireworks are such a draw that the restaurant itself might lose it's huge profit margin business because a)people had a cheaper way to get the experience they sought and b)these people would potentially be blocking the view of the tables they sure weren't about to lose business off of by removing.

The thought that Disney was going to charge a fee to "ease overcrowding" takes me back to old Alien Encounter. Profit is merely a byproduct Disney would have learned to live with.

If Disney was so concerned about the demand that they felt they had to find SOME WAY to diminish it they sure found that way by closing it off. Now no one is there to get that guest experience. Well, no one except those who can afford 40 dollar main courses for everyone in their party. Ahhh Disney, where every guest is equal.

Man, I hope they don't close anything else due to it being too good.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"or take reservations for the balcony itself like you would with anything else."***

Not sure if you meant it as a joke or sarcasm, but that's actually an ingenious idea.

 

[bretsyboo]

****Not sure if you meant it as a joke or sarcasm, but that's actually an ingenious idea.*****
Not sure if you meant it as a joke or sarcasm, but I was serious.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by bretsyboo
****Not sure if you meant it as a joke or sarcasm, but that's actually an ingenious idea.*****
Not sure if you meant it as a joke or sarcasm, but I was serious.

Great idea Boo. It could be similar to the balcony that looks over the Disneyland Fantasmic show.

 

[YoHo]

LOOK, another example of Disneyland managing to not screw people over as much as WDW does. Imagine that.

 

[crusader]

The root problem whether guidebooks or internet is that the old secrets aren't so secret anymore. And as with everything in life, the more people that know about it, the harder it is to keep those clods from ruining it.

Well said.

It'd be real easy to try and argue that disneyites are civil and polite and respectful but when you put them in a first come/first serve situation to get something free, they quickly turn out in droves and get pushy, hostile and indignant.

Ever try to get a great viewing spot for Illuminations when the park is crowded only to be stomped over by a quick surge of guests that formed at the last minute? It's not pleasant.

The only solution is to make the experience the best you can for your guest and in this case, something had to be done.

And doesn't Disneyland charge for an overpriced dessert buffet to use that balcony?

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by crusader
And doesn't Disneyland charge for an overpriced dessert buffet to use that balcony?

That was certainly true the last time I heard about it.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by raidermatt
I remember the days when we were told that us Disney internet wackos were an insignificant minority, and that the vast majority don't even bother to look at sites like these when planning... that we have no discernable impact.

I guess that's changed.

Its just that when other issues have come up, like the possible negative impact of changing operating hours multiple times, or that many people "around here" aren't happy about something, it has been said that sites like these are an anomoly and represent the "lunatic fringe".

There's no inconsistency here.

Lots of folks may visit the planning boards on this site, or the DIS site, or Deb Will's site, etc., and have access to "insider" information. It would only take a small fraction of the daily visitors to WDW who have done so to overcrowd the viewing platform.

That population of folks is still MUCH larger than the folks who care enough about Mickey butter to come on this board and complain about it (and of course also much larger also than those who come on this board to defend such actions).

Let's face it, we're all part of the lunatic fringe.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Ridiculousness and sarcasam aside, the idea that Disney has somehow demeaned guests experience in this case is silly. What guest? Certainly not the guest of this particular hotel, The Contemporary.

How would you feel if paying $300.00 per night to stay at the Contemporary that you arrive home with baby in arms, toddler asleep on his feet, adults draggin' and got to the elevator only to find 200 people in front of you trying to get to the roof for fireworks? Enough said. End of discussion.

The CG and it's viewing are is already 'for sale' on a first come, first seve PS basis...Why complicate it further.