California Grill

[DisneyKidds]

Having now taken my son (almost 4) to WDW 3 times, I see the Magic fresh again not only in my old favorites, but in the new.

Ahhhhhh, DB.....you have hit on something that pains me about the state of the World today. Gets to the heart of my comment about the way the World is today not being as easy to fall in love with. I, too, have been renewing and reliving all of the old magic as I experience WDW with our three children, currently ages 6, 3 and 1. It really is amazing. To see them experience the wonders that still exist. To see things I might not have seen in years. To take time to do things we'd never done before (both old and new things). It really is amazing. However........

There always is one of those, isn't there? If I were to visit WDW today as a young DINK (double income no kids....you remember those days) I just can't imagine I could fall in love with the place the way I did just 13 years ago. That is where I have to agree with Baron and others that many changes have been made that have detracted from the experience that used to be provided. Some of those changes have been necessary, other have simply put $$$ before the guest experience. I don't advocate living in the past, but there is a lot to be learned from it, and a lot I think we should still have today. Granted, many great things have been added, but I see the deletes side as outweighing the adds side of the ledger. WDW is still an amazing place.....the best, but it could be more. I still think it will be again some day.

 

[DisneyKidds]

but it's a pretty good $60 show.

Get that flak jacket out Brian.......as there will surely be incoming from Baron regarding this statement.

I agree with you regarding the need for a "facilities you pay for" approach in WDW as it exists today, and it is different than the past. Now if we can find a way for those two worlds to coexist peacefully .

Curious, Brian. I know the WDW experience of many others in this debate. What is yours? Promise I'm not going to use your relative wealth or lack of experience as a point in an argument.....it's just helpful to know what point of reference people are coming from.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"If I were to visit WDW today as a young DINK (double income no kids....you remember those days) I just can't imagine I could fall in love with the place the way I did just 13 years ago."***

I don't know DK. I'm sort of an empty nester DINK who prior to '95 had virtually no knowledge or interest in Disney. In '95 my boys were 15 and 12, a few years past the age of being awe struck by a costumed charactor. They enjoyed themselves at WDW, but honestly probably would have been happier at a Six Flags. HOWEVER, DW and I were smitten with the place. Smitten to the point buying into DVC and then adding on three times to be certain we could spend at least 3 weeks a year there. I don't doubt that WDW isn't what it once was - wether better or worse - but what in life is ? I'm sorry, but in most cases the "good ol' days" weren't all that good.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Brian430

When you're shelling out $300 a night and can't find a space at the pool because it's overrun with the 30K value and moderate hotel guests you will understandably feel like it's a Bad Show.

.....Nowadays, having the good fortune to afford the deluxe accommodations, I find it incredibly offensive to watch non-guests take up precious pool/parking space. It is me who feels like WDW doesn't give a care about my family or the "good show" I'm supposedly paying for. And no one can convince me that Walt find this acceptable.

Which is why it seems like the best solution is to simply use the amenities of the hotel you're staying at. Maybe the values are not as a good show as the deluxes ... but it's a pretty good $60 show.

Many of the "crashers" at SAB came from other deluxe resorts, S/D and Boardwalk. I agree with the problem about overcrowding but I don't think it's think the problem is limited to moderate and value resort guests. Some of the crashers are from other deluxe resorts and others aren't even staying on property. Is the GF pool themed that much better than CSR? Some of the people are crashing because of location NOT because they don't have a good pool in their resort.

I am less willing to pay a premium to stay in a Disney deluxe. I've recently stayed in S/D, PBH and Gaylord Palms. The non-disney hotels seem A LOT LESS overcrowded. I'm looking for my hotel to be a break from the theme parks not to have the same crowds in the pool and parking lot that I find in the parks.

 

[Brian430]

I guess I'd consider myself as much as of a WDW fan as most people on these boards.

Girlfriend and I went to CB in '95.

We returned in '96 where we signed a contract to marry at WDW.

Married at the Disney chapel in '97: Honeymooned at the GF most of our family stayed at Dixie.

Returned three or four times to Dixie or the Disney Village hotels between 1997 and 1999.

After that we have stayed at the Poly, Wilderness, Yacht Club, Cruise Line, the Institute before we bought DVC BWV in 2001. And then added on at VWL.

I have since taken my first son when he was one and two (with my inlaws). I've also taken both of my sons when they were three and one.

And I'll be heading down in two weeks with my brother and cousin for a golf outing.

There have been additional trips since I attend a lot of tradeshows and usually find a way to stay on site, but that's the gist of it.

- B

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm sorry, but in most cases the "good ol' days" weren't all that good.

Perhaps. Perhaps.......

Sure, not being able to do some of the things we used to would have made us do some of the things we never had back then. However, it sure was nice to have all those option we had back then.......and the mickey head butter.

Thanks for the info B......a fellow BWV and VWL owner I see!!!

Actually, folks like you and Vike help to prove an important point. I'll agree that Disney isn't what it was back in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's. However, the Disney of the mid 90's and beyond has been able to create fans and loyalists who are dedicated and passionate about a place they love. That speaks volumes. Sure, the volume may not crack quite as loud, but it still says a lot..........

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Sure, not being able to do some of the things we used to would have made us do some of the things we never had back then.

Wha?

 

[Bstanley]

The biggest problem (as stated by BaronLarryBoo - albeit somewhat stridently) with 'sharing' today is that the property was not developed properly and the price point(s) of the deluxes are excessive.

It's been argued interminably what the price of a deluxe SHOULD be today so I don't want to get into that again - but everyone agrees that it could be substantially lower than it is and still give Disney, Inc a chance to make decent money. If the prices were lower people wouldn't be as demanding/exclusive-minded.

Also if there were more 'deluxe' resorts with comparable amenities the loading would be more evenly distributed - and personally I think the Moderates could easily be Re-Imagineered to be 'deluxe'. For example (IMHO) the pool at CSR is better than most of the other pools on property. Shoot - add a lazy river and it's another SAB.

The second problem is that Transportation at WDW has stagnated since Epcot was opened. If the freshly upgraded Moderates had 'Magical' transporation to their nearby park the concept of using a pool just because it is convenient to a park will dissipate on it's own as well. I mean really - who wants to tote all the kid's swim stuff to the MK and back and change clothes etc - it's always more convenient to use the pool back at the resort where your underwear is... The only problem is getting back and forth easily to your own resort.

Now personally I'm not sure what to do to the Values - but that's why we have Imagineers, surely they can figure it out!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Wha?

If we hadn't been in the MK until midnight or beyond every night we would have had more time to explore DTD and other things we just never had time for. That's just one example.........

 

[All Aboard]

Is it your point to suggest that since I have not had the financial means or opportunity to return to my beloved WDW ...

Nah, my point was just to add a little levity to a thread that was heated up pretty good. I know my place here on the DIS.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
That's just one example.........

Ok, now I gotcha'

Thanks for the E.G.

 

[DisneyKidds]

You're very welcome........it wasn't the best constructed sentence I've ever written .

 

[airlarry!]

No, I do not agree that it is first come, first serve with the pools. Registered guests of a particular hotel should have priority over any other registered guest, but all guests should have access. I just haven't figured out the system to do it yet.

The problem lies in the fact that Disney has expanded its hotels without an appropriate expansion of hotel amenities.

One observation deck for the entire World? Egads, man, we have four parks now. Each of those parks should have a cluster of resorts, and one of those resorts should have some stunning vantage point for the firework shows (in my World, the imagineers create an early nighttime, noiseless spectacular for the AK guests).

Only one SAB for the entire World? Egads, man, at least one resort in every cluster should have one! The rest should have the new generation deluxe pools in place with quiet pools scattered. Not every single resort guest is going to tromp over to an SAB-pool every single day of their vacation....spread it out a bit.

Yes, I know I'm arguing dust in the wind, because the poor planning (sorry, friend DB, there just isn't any other way to look at it) and poor transportation system means some of these may...I say may...be irreversible decisions. (I suspect Yoho! and MB could fix them in 35 seconds or less, though).

The ban on pool hopping and on observation deck watching cures only the symptoms that come with the underlying disease...that of massively poor master planning.

The question some ask is whether or not expansion of amenities to non-monorail resorts would cause people to forgo paying the price they command. Well, folks, that's already happening, but only to a degree. There are still people who are staying at the Contemp and the Grand Floridian and paying more than at the Moderates or then at the SAB resorts or at the AKL/WKL twins. So it must be more than just geysers and slides they are after. Maybe they stay at the monorail resorts because of the monorail and the view? You think?

BTW, Mr. Brian, my question was whether or not the Grand Floridian guests who pay two or three or four times the room rate you pay at the SAB resorts have a legitimate beef with you for excluding them from your pool. I got the sense from you that payment of a nicer room entitles you to nicer, exclusive privilege in this WDW that you have created, and wanted to see how far you would take that.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"The problem lies in the fact that Disney has expanded its hotels without an appropriate expansion of hotel amenities."***

Another problem I see is that Disney fails to enforce existing rules. It's as if they're afraid of bad publicity if they tell someone "No". I personally don't believe that pool or deck abuse is primarily done by on-site guests but rather the local population that treat WDW as an extension of their own backyard. I've been in too many pool hopping debates over on the DVC board to believe otherwise. Let's face it, how many on site guests are really pool hopping ? There is so much to do in so little time it's hard to justify heading over to Resort X just to see how wet their water is.

 

[Lewisc]

Actually Disney built two well themed water parks. Disney is contantly promoting UMP and I suspect most guests purchase them. The water parks are included in the pass So is DQ.

Use your own resort pool or go to a water park sounds like a plan to me. Disney even tells people to bring their coolers to the water park. Asumming Disney could somehow fit thousands of guests in the POLY pool or SAB sounds like a lousy plan.

Originally posted by airlarry!
Only one SAB for the entire World? Egads, man, at least one resort in every cluster should have one! The rest should have the new generation deluxe pools in place with quiet pools scattered. Not every single resort guest is going to tromp over to an SAB-pool every single day of their vacation....spread it out a bit.

The ban on pool hopping and on observation deck watching cures only the symptoms that come with the underlying disease...that of massively poor master planning.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
***"The problem lies in the fact that Disney has expanded its hotels without an appropriate expansion of hotel amenities."***

Another problem I see is that Disney fails to enforce existing rules. It's as if they're afraid of bad publicity if they tell someone "No". I personally don't believe that pool or deck abuse is primarily done by on-site guests but rather the local population that treat WDW as an extension of their own backyard. I've been in too many pool hopping debates over on the DVC board to believe otherwise. Let's face it, how many on site guests are really pool hopping ? There is so much to do in so little time it's hard to justify heading over to Resort X just to see how wet their water is.

It's both. You could watch the guests from S/D and Boardwalk walk over to SAB. People in the POLY pool come from MK and talk about their resort. Most of the people I overheard were staying in moderate and value resorts. People have posted seeing locals drive to the value resorts to use the pool and take the bus to the parks. One way to avoid a parking pass.

The destination pools, SAB, POLY, which are close to popular theme parks are barely big enough for their own guests. I'm not sure how much longer DVC pool hopping will be allowed. I

 

[Brian430]

Wasn't aware the GF guests had that beef with the YC pool.

But it sounds like they're a small minority of people who want the best of both worlds: "I want proximity to the MK, the monorail and the nightly fireworks. But I want your pool too." Quite frankly that seems as childish as people staying at the value resorts saying "I want an incredibly affordable hotel room, and I want your pool too."

This has nothing to do with a Good Show. This has everything to do with selfishness masked behind convulted theories of makes WDW utopia.

Incidentally, I also don't think YC guests should be able to head over to the GF pool in the middle of the day for a Magic Kingdom break. Guests of that particular hotel paid handsomely for that perk. The YC guests will get their turn to feel superior when the GF guests have to take the monorail back from Epcot for their pool break.

Let's cut to the chase: People get so damn giddy to be at WDW that they start running around like unsupervised children - just jumping into pools, parking their cars whereever they want, using other people's hotels as their own playground. The behavior is downright shameful. Especially when you're going to justify it by hiding behind a very dead Walt, or a very obscure theory of your right to a "good show."

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you're happy. I'm glad Disney makes you feel like you're in one giant 30,000 acre theme park where Mickey Mouse tucks in everyone at night.

But let's all calm down and have a little respect for each other. There are families shelling out thousands of dollars for the privilege of enjoying these perks and the rest us should respect that.

I use both the moderates and the DVC resorts quite often. And when I'm staying at the PO I get by with that pool, and I park in the main lots at the theme parks. When I'm staying at the Boardwalk, I'd like to think others would extend me the same courtesy.

Does that seem unreasonable?

 

[cristen]

Especially when you're going to justify it by hiding behind a very dead Walt, or a very obscure theory on your right to a "good show."

WOW!!! I think I have heard it all now. Let's look at this one more time, focusing on the last part, shall we?

or a very obscure theory on your right to a "good show"

An obscure theory? If you don't know the WHOLE POINT of Disney was a good show, then why are you even discussing Disney?

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
...If I were to visit WDW today as a young DINK (double income no kids....you remember those days) I just can't imagine I could fall in love with the place the way I did just 13 years ago. That is where I have to agree with Baron and others that many changes have been made that have detracted from the experience that used to be provided. Some of those changes have been necessary, other have simply put $$$ before the guest experience. I don't advocate living in the past, but there is a lot to be learned from it, and a lot I think we should still have today. Granted, many great things have been added, but I see the deletes side as outweighing the adds side of the ledger. WDW is still an amazing place.....the best, but it could be more. I still think it will be again some day.

Gosh, my ledger is just so different than yours. My WDW history goes back to 1972, but there are so many things I've done at WDW as an adult that I certainly could not have done in the 70's (or even after Epcot opened):

--Fine dining at CA Grill, Artist Pointe, etc.

--A round of golf at Osprey Ridge. And mini-golf at Fantasia Gardens.

--Pleasure Island, particularly the Comedy Warehouse and Adventurer's Club.

--At Christmastime, musicians and carolers at the Boardwalk and in the Grand Floridian.

--Boats around the Epcot resorts.

--Staying at CSR, WL, PO and the Dolphin.

--A meal at Boma, together with animal watching at AKL.

--My son playing with Legos and running through the water fountain at the rejunevated Marketplace.

--Visits to Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach.

And of course everything at the Studios and Animal Kingdom (I really enjoy AK in particular).

Against that are negatives like the staggered hours at Epcot and Adventureland, the Contemporary's 15th floor deck being closed, etc. I think some of these things are bad ideas, but they probably impact the satisfaction of the vast majority of visitors less than they do the hard core reflected on these boards. Still a negative on my ledger, but (1) overweighed to me by all of the new stuff, and (2) don't have a great negative impact on your hypothetical new DINK visitors to the park, that don't have those built-in expectations of midnight hours and such.

 

[YoHo]

Originally posted by airlarry!


The ban on pool hopping and on observation deck watching cures only the symptoms that come with the underlying disease...that of massively poor master planning.

Airlarry Exclamation Point indeed.