California Adventure not getting the crowds, why?

[Disney Davo]

OK, I appreciate everyones views. Fisrt I would like to say I was born and raised in OC, California, but curretly live in Florida. I am hopping to relocate back to So. Cal soon. The reason I brought up this conversation is because I have been totally impressed with WDW and would like to see the same success brought to DL. I understand the land issues and such but would like to see DL improve on the resort destination side of the house. Right now WDW trys to get you for a 5-7 day stay. DL I think you can do in 2-3 and see about everythig. As many have stated DCA needs to improve the family concept of the park, this is the true formula why Disney parks make money and the rest don't. Philarmagic is a great Idea for DCA!
Personnaly as stated before you get the most for you money at DL MK, even compared to WDW. I like all the parks equally well from California to Florida, but I think DL MK is cramed full of Magic and DCA needs to be also!

 

[GreenGirl8]

The park is changing quite a bit with new attractions being discussed constantly. It is hard to build another "Disneyland" since that park has so many attractions. DCA is pretty equal to MGM, Epcot, Animal Kingdom and probably even the Magic Kingdom in Florida in terms of attractions.

A new show at DCA is in the planning stages right now. There is discussion of it on other boards. Expect the lagoon to be drained in the future. I believe the plan if for the show to be open in 2008.

I vote for Fantasmic! to stay where it is in Disneyland. I have seen both shows and the Disneyland version is more magical, intimate and actually a better show. The boats that go through the Rivers of America are massive and the scenes are put together better.

All of that is my opinion of course....

 

[DLR29]

I decided to throw in my two cents here. I think DCA gets a bum rap in the area of rides.

I have broken down the rides at the DLR and WDW parks here: http://hydroguy.smugmug.com/gallery/1819958. This is slightly out of date, and does not include the new Nemo ride at Epcot.

MK - 32
Epcot - 20 (including Nemo)
MGM - 10
AK - 11

DL - 41
DCA - 25

Comparing DCA to DL is just not fair. A more fair comparison is to AK or MGM at WDW. DCA has way more rides than these parks. DCA has four true headliner rides: Soarin Over CA, ToT, CA Screamin, and GRR.

MGM has two: ToT and RnR

AK has four: EE, Dino, KRR, and KS.

Since DCA has so many more rides, and some of them are not that great, it is easier to say that DCA has a lot of rides that are not that great. IMO, if you take the top 10-12 rides at DCA, they are pretty good compared to MGM or AK.

In addition, MGM and even Epcot have some truly awful rides as well (think Sounds Dangerous and Figment). I cannot think of any awful rides at AK, but it does have a cheap carnival area along the lines of DCA's.

If we take the positive view in all of the above cases, which I tend to do already, it means that the Disney parks have room for improvement.

OK but the QUALITY overall of the attractions is lower. Yes DCA does have a few great headliners. But 10 of DCA's rides are carnival style rides. (Flik's FLyers, Francis' Ladybug Boogie, Tuck &Roll's, Golden Zephyr, Jumpin Jellyfish, King Triton, Maliboomer, Mulholland Madness, Oragne Stinger, Sun Wheel)That's 40%! That's pretty low quality compared to MGM which has NO cheap amusement park rides and AK which has 2.(Triceratops Spin, Primeval Whirl)

 

[HydroGuy]

OK but the QUALITY overall of the attractions is lower. Yes DCA does have a few great headliners. But 10 of DCA's rides are carnival style rides. (Flik's FLyers, Francis' Ladybug Boogie, Tuck &Roll's, Golden Zephyr, Jumpin Jellyfish, King Triton, Maliboomer, Mulholland Madness, Oragne Stinger, Sun Wheel)That's 40%! That's pretty low quality compared to MGM which has NO cheap amusement park rides and AK which has 2.(Triceratops Spin, Primeval Whirl)

I was comparing based on quantity (i.e., DCA has 10-12 rides as good or better than MGM's or AK's 10-11), and you are comparing based on percentage, so we come up with different conclusions. Since DCA has over twice as many rides as AK or MGM, it makes it harder to do an apples to apples comparison. In general I agree that DCA has some rides that seem ill conceived and cheap. However, I would also argue that Mailboomer and the Sun Wheel in particular are not cheap amusement park rides. The Sun Wheel looks innocent enough, but you can read the threads here on DIS about how terrified some people become on the Sun Wheel.

My earlier point was just that all of the Disney parks have weak areas and room for improvement, although DL itself seems pretty close to perfection to me.

 

[Disney Davo]

I never really cared for Fantasmic until I saw it at WDW, I like the WDW show better. There just isn't many good seats to see the show at DL. I do like the river boats being used in the show and the pirate ship with Peter Pan and Captain Hook is awesome. WDW has two shows a night, and maybe 3 on the longer nights and the crowds are crazy for each show but it doesn't effect the park because it has its own theater. We were at DL on Dec. 15th and was dissappointed we could not enjoy Fantasmic and the Fire Works. You either have to get good seats for one or the other.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I never really cared for Fantasmic until I saw it at WDW, I like the WDW show better. There just isn't many good seats to see the show at DL. I do like the river boats being used in the show and the pirate ship with Peter Pan and Captain Hook is awesome. WDW has two shows a night, and maybe 3 on the longer nights and the crowds are crazy for each show but it doesn't effect the park because it has its own theater. We were at DL on Dec. 15th and was dissappointed we could not enjoy Fantasmic and the Fire Works. You either have to get good seats for one or the other.

Actually during much of the year MGM only has one Fantasmic. Only during the peak times will you see two and only during Christmas and EAster will you see three since it takes a long period of evening darkness to do that many. And while I agree it is always nice to see fireworks and Fantasmic you can't do that at WDW either very easily since it requires park hopping. If you have ever tried to exit MGM and then get to either MK or Epcot for more nighttime entertainment you know what I mean. Possible, but not easy. Disneyland frequently has two Fantasmics on Fri. and Sat nites and every night during the summer. One at 9:00 before Remember and another at 10:30. And even if there is only one show you can see it and the fireworks, iIf you see Remember in Frontierland directly after Fantasmic. If you stand near the Rancho de Zocalo restaurant you have a great view of Remember (minus the castle affects) just a short walk from where you saw Fantasmic. I do see what you are saying and agree with with you on some points but think in some ways you need to give more fair comparisons.

And I also agree with an earilier point that Sun Wheel and Maliboomer are not cheap attractions. I would love to see some more headliners at DCA but would also love to see some more at MGM which I think is in much need of some overhaul and updating. That Drew Carrey show, and the outdated backlot tour to name a couple of things that DCA can't touch on the cheesey/dumb scale.

 

[Rena75]

Philharmagic at DLR may be in the works. See:

"The Lasseter Effect: DCA Upgrades and Other Great News" www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1241090

That's great news - we loved Philharmagic!!!

 

[HydroGuy]

Hey! We LOVE Figment! I didn't know that was considered a 'blah' ride. We think it's really cute and love the little interactive area after the ride.

And AK...I think it can get away with less rides because their are so many FANTASTIC shows, there's alot of hands on, and it's just plain beautiful. But, I also think AK is one of the highly misunderstood parks. We loved it, and I know in many 'circles' it is considered a 2nd rate park.

MGM on the other hand. Maybe because I'm born and bred SoCal and have seen and done that whole Hollywood, backlot, Universal thing a zillion times. But to me that's probably as '2nd rate' as Disney gets. Worth a visit, but 1 visit is enough for me.

Oooops, now I did it. Long time Epcot visitors are bound to have nostalgia for some of the rides. I saw Figment for the first time in June, and while I can understand nostalgic attachment, if a ride like Figment was installed at DCA it would be severely ridiculed. If we set Figment aside, I hope I do not offend anyone else if I say that Maelstrom and Rio Del Tiempo at Epcot are truly awful.

It is really not my intent to criticize your tastes or that of others, or Epcot, or WDW. I do stand by my original statement that DCA, while imperfect, gets overly criticized - especially by the hypersensitive California locals.

 

[HydroGuy]

And while I agree it is always nice to see fireworks and Fantasmic you can't do that at WDW either very easily since it requires park hopping. If you have ever tried to exit MGM and then get to either MK or Epcot for more nighttime entertainment you know what I mean. Possible, but not easy. Disneyland frequently has two Fantasmics on Fri. and Sat nites and every night during the summer. One at 9:00 before Remember and another at 10:30. And even if there is only one show you can see it and the fireworks, iIf you see Remember in Frontierland directly after Fantasmic. If you stand near the Rancho de Zocalo restaurant you have a great view of Remember (minus the castle affects) just a short walk from where you saw Fantasmic. I do see what you are saying and agree with with you on some points but think in some ways you need to give more fair comparisons.

I think Amy is aware of this but she did not say it explicitly. On nights where there are two Fantasmics at DL, it is not that hard to see the fireworks and Fantasmic. If you watch the fireworks from the hub - which most would say is the best place to see it - and then make your way quickly to Fantasmic thru Frontierland, you can arrive 30-40 minutes before the 10:30PM showing. We did this once in mid-summer, and had a great spot for the fireworks and for Fantasmic down front in the center near the water - and we have six in our family.

 

[MateasMom]

I hope I do not offend anyone else if I say that Maelstrom and Rio Del Tiempo at Epcot are truly awful.

K. Won't argue there! Seems we spent hours waiting to get off that horrible Maelstrom boat My poor kids were so sad LOL. I think the only ride they hated more at WDW was that LONG boring MGM ride (Movie Ride???). They asked about 100 times 'is it over, can we go now'

 

[HydroGuy]

I never really cared for Fantasmic until I saw it at WDW, I like the WDW show better. There just isn't many good seats to see the show at DL. I do like the river boats being used in the show and the pirate ship with Peter Pan and Captain Hook is awesome. WDW has two shows a night, and maybe 3 on the longer nights and the crowds are crazy for each show but it doesn't effect the park because it has its own theater. We were at DL on Dec. 15th and was dissappointed we could not enjoy Fantasmic and the Fire Works. You either have to get good seats for one or the other.

Everyone has their own preferences, buy most folks would disagree with you here. From what I read on the DL forums, most (but certainly not all) prefer Fantasmic at DL - even with the lack of stadium seating. And as I noted in my post above to Amy&Dan, it is not difficult to see the fireworks and Fantasmic on the same night if there are two showings.

 

[AllJackedUp]

The first time I saw Fantasmic was at DL and it just amazed me! So, I was very excited when I heard it was being brought to WDW. We went and I saw this huge stadium and it was so...so...sterile. I felt like I was watching a show at Sea World or something. It had none of the charm and appeal that DL offered. I, too, was appalled at the cheesy boats. But, geez, there were plenty of seats and I don't think anyone was turned away. It's even funny when you go off season and only about a third of the stadium is filled. I love the thrill of stalking out a table at River Belle Terrace two hours before the show, munching on a beef stew bread bowl or fried chicken dinner and watching the crowds. Someday, I will splurge for Disney Gallery seating just once but that will have to be saved for a special occasion.

I don't know why DCA gets such a bad rap. You know, DL wasn't all that great when it opened either. It was great because it was the first theme park of its kind, but when I went in the early 60's, there was no Splash, no Space, no Big Thunder, no Indiana Jones, no HM or POTC. You had TS Island, the Pirate ship (which was a restaurant as I recall), the Mine train ride and the Fantasyland rides. DCA will evolve, just as DL has. Again, in our fast-paced, must-have-now society, we just grow ever impatient when things aren't done on our timetable. But in the ever-selfish way of American society, I'm kinda glad people don't like. Fewer people means more riding time for me!

I don't like the off-shelf rides of Paradise Pier so I don't ride them. AAMOF, I usually just walk through that part of the park once, just to see what's changed and maybe ride the Sun Wheel for the view. I agree that some family-oriented rides/attractions would be helpful, there does seem to be that little kid/big kid distinction. I was so sad that CA was closed when we were there Dec. 10-14, as I really wanted my friend to ride it (would be her first time). Alas, we have something to look forward to on the next trip. And that's always the wonderful thing about any Disney park. They are always adding or changing something so that it's not stagnant.

I missed the EP, wasn't running when we were there and I understand that's the trade off for going off-season. I love it and hope it will always be at either DL or WDW.

Just my two-cents worth....

 

[Albort]

i think its because DCA only as about 14 rides... its not really worth the money... not to mention, its not too Disney...

Some lady was like, "is this still part of Disney?"

 

[HydroGuy]

i think its because DCA only as about 14 rides... its not really worth the money... not to mention, its not too Disney...

Some lady was like, "is this still part of Disney?"

Actually it is more like 25 rides. And people say the same thing about AK and MGM at WDW. I have to admit that my first visit to Epcot this year (over two days) left me feeling like it was the most un-Disney and un-magical of all four WDW parks, and more un-Disney than DCA.

One of the confusions here, IMO, is that many West Coast folks only have DL which which to compare DCA. And that may make it look un-Disney to some, especially if they have not visited WDW in recent years with the newer parks there. If you give an honest comparison to the WDW parks, DCA does not come out too badly - even with its flaws. However, the lower than expected attendance is an issue which must be dealt with. The good news is that it appears Disney is prepared to do that.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I think Amy is aware of this but she did not say it explicitly. On nights where there are two Fantasmics at DL, it is not that hard to see the fireworks and Fantasmic. If you watch the fireworks from the hub - which most would say is the best place to see it - and then make your way quickly to Fantasmic thru Frontierland, you can arrive 30-40 minutes before the 10:30PM showing. We did this once in mid-summer, and had a great spot for the fireworks and for Fantasmic down front in the center near the water - and we have six in our family.

Yeah thats totally true. I was just mainly referring to the fact that even if there is only one F!, you can see it and the fireworks especially if you forgo seeing it from the Hub area which is hard to get into if not impossible that close to Remember. Also I wanted to clarify that DL also runs more than one F! show on many nights. I was just really trying to get across that it can be done easily and in fact much more easier than at WDW where you have to exit MGM then boat, walk, bus or monorail to another park to see fireworks.

 

[Amy&Dan]

One of the confusions here, IMO, is that many West Coast folks only have DL which which to compare DCA. And that may make it look un-Disney to some, especially if they have not visited WDW in recent years with the newer parks there. If you give an honest comparison to the WDW parks, DCA does not come out too badly - even with its flaws. However, the lower than expected attendance is an issue which must be dealt with. The good news is that it appears Disney is prepared to do that.

As usual, I am going to agree with you! On our first visit, Epcot was our least favorite because it didn't feel Disney enough. Now that we have been to WDW something like 8 times I like the fact that at Epcot you get a break from Disney without totally leaving it behind. It grows on me every trip. And I'm still laughing about your Figment comment! Defintiely if that little guy had shown up at DCA it would have been laughed right out of the park. I also agree that DCA gets a bum rap. I always say if you look at DCA as the proverbial condiment, something meant to be enjoyed with something else, not necessarily on its own than you can't help but have fun and enjoy it. And it just keeps getting better. Of all the Disney parks I have visted it seems to be the one that has something new and different each time I go. The addtion of Philharmagic would give it a total new feel and boost. I hope they do it (sorry Muppets fans). I mean think about that, Philarmagic, the Aladdin show and TOT all within steps of each other in the same general area of DCA.

I also have to say in defense of all non headliner Disney attractions that not everything can be a Soarin, Test Track, Mission Space or Splash Mountain. And thank goodness they aren't! Recently at Epcot we enjoyed the new Living Seas ride at Epcot. After reading nothing but gripes about how awful and disappointing it was, I expected nothing. My whole family, including my ride-snob, hard to please 12 year old son loved that ride. I think every part needs some small scale rides. I know Flik's Flair gets made fun of but when I spent a few hours back there with my little nieces who thought it was the cat's meow, I came to appreciate it a whole lot more. DCA will cut down the percentage of non headliners to headliners but I hope not omit them all together. Remember that classics like Pinocchio, Alice in Wonderland and many others in Fantasyland aren't headliners either and they have literally entertained and enthralled mulititudes of people for decades.

 

[TPCShauna]

I would be appalled if they put Fantasmic in a theatre. I saw it for the first time at WDW (because I kept missing it at DL) and was distinctly underwhelmed even though I had very, very good seats. I just couldn't understand what all the fuss was about.

Then I finally saw it at DL and can only say that I was enthralled. It was amazing and everything that I had expected from the WDW version but didn't get. We watched three nights in a row and I loved every show.

And yes, it is easy to see the Fireworks and Fantasmic. You just have to get your fireworks spot and then head over for the late Fantasmic show. We did it twice and it was incredible both times.

While DH and I don't love DCA, we think it is definitely getting better. I also think it is quite a bit better than MGM which was a distinct let-down for me. Personally, I loved AK and think it was a 1,000 times better than MGM. Talk about a park needing a serious overhaul.

 

[HydroGuy]

Personally, I loved AK and think it was a 1,000 times better than MGM. Talk about a park needing a serious overhaul.

AK was a huge hit with my DS10 (it was his favorite of the four), but for most of us (including me) MGM was easily our second favorite at WDW after MK. Oh well. If we all had the same opinions and tastes life would be pretty boring.

 

[HydroGuy]

Now that we have been to WDW something like 8 times I like the fact that at Epcot you get a break from Disney without totally leaving it behind. It grows on me every trip.

Sheesh, I need to start taking more business trips and build up those frequent flyer miles. Eight times? I feel for you.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Sheesh, I need to start taking more business trips and build up those frequent flyer miles. Eight times? I feel for you.

Yeah those days are over, Dan's project is local now the rat! Its probably going to be two trips a year at most if we're lucky. We are actually driving to CA this year. Like our weather?

I'll also add that MGM was our favorite the first trip but is now our least favorite. Which is relative since we love all things Disney. Hey we even love the parking lot trams! But I guess my point is that as your kids get older, tastes change so does your park preferences. Alot of people who don't like DCA might like it a lot better once Philharmagic comes in and makes it more Disney. That is such an incredilbe show it needs to come to California!