Caitlyn Jenner

[Gracie09]

Tolerance of a once considered DSM diagnosis? We're to celebrate that? I don't think that Caitlyn feels at all at peace. I'm sorry that she has to live like that. I hope she finds help. Being on the front of Vogue magazine certainly won't do that.

There are many dsm diagnosis that are no longer considered a mental illness. Homosexuality springs to mind as one. There are also disorders listed that are part of a "normal" persons life such as grief is now a mental illness under dsm 5.

 

[Gracie09]

You can't force tolerance. I see many here wanting to force what they see as tolerance.

If Caitlyn can find happiness then it really doesn't matter what strangers think. I know that it's not that simple but I believe that it's true.

It's not about forcing tolerance but not accepting intolerance. I am no more willing to accept intolerance of transgendered people than I am willing to accept racism, sexism or ageism.

 

[mnrose]

Are steroids permitted in HS athletics?

Apparently, yes, when those steroids are consistent with normal male development.


For those who think that Caitlyn hasn't found happiness, I will say this. I have no way of knowing about Caitlyn directly, but I do know my friend's son is happier and more content that at any point in his life now that he can live as a male. It's obvious even from photos. Rare smiles before the transition. Nothing but smiles now. He radiates happiness and contentment. It's just obvious to those of us who know him. I believe his parents have saved his life.

 

[anniemae]

I am sad for Bruce's children. For his previous wives. I can't imagine how they feel, hearing "my entire life was a lie".

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Kris seems to be having some trouble with this and I can't say I blame her. Probably because it is so fresh, his other wived seemed to have moved on. I am no Kris Jenner/Kardashian clan fan, but I can't help but feel for her. She was essentially duped. That marriage was doomed from the start. Now she is alone and everyone is praising Caitlynn for being so brave and honest. Well, Bruce was not brave or honest with Kris. He married her, had kids with her and built a life with her that was built on lies. What bothers me is that he KNEW how deep his gender issues ran back then, but downplayed them to Kris, by his own admission. He basically concealed information from her that could have changed her mind about marrying and building a life with him.

I am happy for Caitlyn and glad she can finally live the life she was meant to live, but I do feel bad for the broken hearts and broken dreams left in her wake.

 

[Tiggeroo]

Like others have said, I am glad she is happy. I am bothered by her past though. She apparently neglected emotionally and financially the children from the first two marriages. I don't think that was all because of being trans-gendered. Every marriage had a certain amount of fraud when beginning. I could understand and probably excuse the 1st marriage. Maybe even the 2nd. But by the time of the 3rd marriage there was more public knowledge about transgendered persons and he was not marrying a person who was raised and living in the deep south or some corn farm in Iowa. I do think Kris (who I don't love) would have a right to be upset at the fact that her ex is getting so much positive attention. I think it might upset his earlier kids as well.
Here's hoping that Kaitlyn is better at relationships.

 

[cabanafrau]

It would not surprise me at all if Caitlyn winds up not as happy as she imagined. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wishing her ill. I don't see much in the way of signs of amends having truly been made for the suffering others went through as Bruce repeatedly made decisions prioritizing himself. While he was no doubt unhappy all these years he time and time again made life altering decisions to try to make himself happy that involved other people -- and had no compunction about dropping them when they became inconvenient to his happiness down the road. IMO it's very telling when Bruce and Caitlyn have stated that this has been put off too long in the interest of other people and now it's her turn to be happy. You've ditched 3 wives and 4 kids along the way. You're trying to hide behind being father of the year while waiting for the two youngest to be out of the nest? Tell the whole truth, at least to the people you wronged.

All of Bruce's issues and unhappiness cannot be laid at the doorstep of gender issues IMO. I have the feeling Caitlyn thought she just needed the opportunity to tell her story, glam up, make some more $$ to insure her future and, whammo, the future is rosy. If Caitlyn isn't more skilled at real empathy and caring for others she won't have friends and be lonely just as Bruce was.

 

[sunshinehighway]

It would not surprise me at all if Caitlyn winds up not as happy as she imagined. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wishing her ill. I don't see much in the way of signs of amends having truly been made for the suffering others went through as Bruce repeatedly made decisions prioritizing himself. While he was no doubt unhappy all these years he time and time again made life altering decisions to try to make himself happy that involved other people -- and had no compunction about dropping them when they became inconvenient to his happiness down the road. IMO it's very telling when Bruce and Caitlyn have stated that this has been put off too long in the interest of other people and now it's her turn to be happy. You've ditched 3 wives and 4 kids along the way. You're trying to hide behind being father of the year while waiting for the two youngest to be out of the nest? Tell the whole truth, at least to the people you wronged.

All of Bruce's issues and unhappiness cannot be laid at the doorstep of gender issues IMO. I have the feeling Caitlyn thought she just needed the opportunity to tell her story, glam up, make some more $$ to insure her future and, whammo, the future is rosy. If Caitlyn isn't more skilled at real empathy and caring for others she won't have friends and be lonely just as Bruce was.

I don't see her making amends in much of the media circus right now. Apparently the older children are not participating in the new show and she was very angry with them about that.
There's also a lot of Kris bashing. That's unfair. I can't stand Kris but to blame her for so much is unfair.

 

[erin1715]

Has anyone ever considered that maybe the suicide rate is so high among the transgender community because even after they transition, they still can't fill the emptiness inside?

 

[phorsenuf]

I won't post the link because some may find it not family friendly, but apparently Family Guy called it back in 2009.

Google
Family Guy Stewie Griffin outs Bruce Jenner

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

I won't post the link because some may find it not family friendly, but apparently Family Guy called it back in 2009.

Google
Family Guy Stewie Griffin outs Bruce Jenner

Wow. How did they know?

To address an argument here, "gender roles" may be a social construct, but the words "gender" and "sex" are synonyms. I can no more declare myself a man than I can declare myself a 21 year old. I might be able to declare myself a gypsy, though.

 

[Gracie09]

Wow. How did they know?

To address an argument here, "gender roles" may be a social construct, but the words "gender" and "***" are synonyms. I can no more declare myself a man than I can declare myself a 21 year old. I might be able to declare myself a gypsy, though.

Gender and Sex are not synonyms. They have two different meanings.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/gender

in short hand - gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs.

 

[erin1715]

So if the mind is so powerful and seemingly you are what you think you are - why don't we embrace people who are anorexic? They look at themselves in the mirror and see someone who is overweight. If that is their truth in their mind, why not let them live it?

 

[Kimberlyann11]

So if the mind is so powerful and seemingly you are what you think you are - why don't we embrace people who are anorexic? They look at themselves in the mirror and see someone who is overweight. If that is their truth in their mind, why not let them live it?

Because we don't like it when people die? Compassion? Both of those?

 

[bethy]

Well, I am a young person, but that just means that I've spent more time being aware of the LGBT+ community and therefore I DO know more about the terms and etiquette. I stand by my original point. This media surge is an educational moment for those generations who have not been aware of the trans* community. It's time to stop making snide comments or gossiping about these issues and start learning what it's like to be in a world where more and more people are brave enough to come out regardless of what people say. I'll stop being 'pedantic' when trans* people stop killing themselves because they're too afraid of being attacked for who they are.

This person's personal journey and struggles do not trump any other human's on this Earth. I respect Caitlyn's personal journey, but not any more than anyone else's. That is my personal opinion on this topic.

 

[erin1715]

Because we don't like it when people die? Compassion? Both of those?

So because the anorexic person is doing harm to themselves, (but the transgender mutilating their body isn't doing harm?) then we draw the line and say what their mind tells them must be wrong. Got it.

 

[AustinTink]

It would not surprise me at all if Caitlyn winds up not as happy as she imagined. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wishing her ill. I don't see much in the way of signs of amends having truly been made for the suffering others went through as Bruce repeatedly made decisions prioritizing himself. While he was no doubt unhappy all these years he time and time again made life altering decisions to try to make himself happy that involved other people -- and had no compunction about dropping them when they became inconvenient to his happiness down the road. IMO it's very telling when Bruce and Caitlyn have stated that this has been put off too long in the interest of other people and now it's her turn to be happy. You've ditched 3 wives and 4 kids along the way. You're trying to hide behind being father of the year while waiting for the two youngest to be out of the nest? Tell the whole truth, at least to the people you wronged.

All of Bruce's issues and unhappiness cannot be laid at the doorstep of gender issues IMO. I have the feeling Caitlyn thought she just needed the opportunity to tell her story, glam up, make some more $$ to insure her future and, whammo, the future is rosy. If Caitlyn isn't more skilled at real empathy and caring for others she won't have friends and be lonely just as Bruce was.

I agree with this 100%. Bruce was a selfish man who hurt his first two families deeply. I just read that he actually told his oldest daughter that he wanted her aborted. He was not Mr. Nice Guy. His first two wives and oldest children have forgiven so much from him. By many accounts, he tried to make up for this with his younger kids. But they are all still trainwrecks. Just google anything about that family.

So to me, Bruce was a "lie" but he was also a big jerk. Caitlyn is the "truth", but I think she will probably still be a jerk. Who you are at your core will still remain after any amount of surgery. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[ashley0139]

Being transgender doesn't make you a good person. Supporting transgender people and their struggle does not mean supporting people who are bad people. I don't know much about Caitlyn's marriages or how she supported her children, or how she treated her wives. But I can support Caitlyn as a woman without condoning everything she's ever done in her life.

I don't know why people think they're mutually exclusive.

 

[Ambear]

So because the anorexic person is doing harm to themselves, (but the transgender mutilating their body isn't doing harm?) then we draw the line and say what their mind tells them must be wrong. Got it.

Mutilation means damaging something. An eating disorder can damage the body (but not always) and does not in any way help the person suffering from it. A transgender isn't damaging their body any more than someone who gets a tattoo. In fact their surgeries can be healing for them since their mental states often improve after.

 

[erin1715]

Mutilation means damaging something. An eating disorder can damage the body (but not always) and does not in any way help the person suffering from it. A transgender isn't damaging their body any more than someone who gets a tattoo. In fact their surgeries can be healing for them since their mental states often improve after.

I read that Jenner thought after all the facial surgery, "what have I done to myself?" Further, there was a study done that showed a 20% higher suicide rate among transgenders AFTER reassignment surgery.

 

[Gracie09]

I read that Jenner thought after all the facial surgery, "what have I done to myself?" Further, there was a study done that showed a 20% higher suicide rate among transgenders AFTER reassignment surgery.

source of the stat please