Cafeteria Catholics?

[Fitswimmer]

This totally blessed me! Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome!

I have never heard a priest in any Mass I have attended condemn homosexual people. The Priest at the Church near my office has a line he uses in every Mass praying that we will love ALL of God's children no matter what race, creed, or sexual orientation. It just has not been my experience. I know others have heard that, and it is truly sad.

 

[golfgal]

Maybe they couldn't handle the liberal thoughts in Belgium, and emigrated because of that?

Rolle Bolle, sure it's written that way?
I know what "rollebollen" means

I only know it to be written this way although it could be "Americanized". Here, well, around our old town that had a high concentration of Belgian-Americans, Rolle Bolle is a game played with a beveled "bolle", a round, thick disk type deal, played kind of like horseshoes. Ever hear of it?

 

[momof2inPA]

You're welcome!

I have never heard a priest in any Mass I have attended condemn homosexual people. The Priest at the Church near my office has a line he uses in every Mass praying that we will love ALL of God's children no matter what race, creed, or sexual orientation. It just has not been my experience. I know others have heard that, and it is truly sad.

I've heard a priest say there's no place in the Catholic priesthood for homosexuals and pedophiles, and Cardinal (now Pope) Ratzenberger's declarations about homosexual acts were very clearly negative, but other than that, I have only heard priests say that we should love homosexuals.

Any Catholic that practices birth control is a cafeteria Catholic, and I certainly struggle with a few strong teachings of the Catholic Church. I'm not sure whether that's more because the teachings are wrong or because of my own short comings.

 

[mickeyboat]

I am really struggling with this right now. I am a lapsed Catholic, and am starting to feel like a Cafeteria Catholic. I don't attend mass, but I was married in the Catholic Church, and my kids were baptized. I would like to send them to CCD, but I feel like a complete hypocrite about doing that. I would definitetely not be practicing what I preach, but I feel terrible about not giving the kids the foundation (and the sacraments) that I had growing up. It's not their fault I am a bad Catholic.

I think I need to talk to someone about it, but I haven't gotten up the nerve.

Denae

 

[mrsltg]

I guess I would say that my experience growing up Catholic was different from yours in respect to the "homophobic" teachings of the church. The Catholic Church does not condemn the homosexual, it does not approve of the homosexual act and to me that is a HUGE difference. Personally, I agree with that that teaching. I do not have issues with people being gay, I do not agree with Gay sex, however. I am certainly not going to tell anyone how to live their life, I am not going to protest any anti-gay anything, I have friends that are gay I just don't talk about their sex life, nor to I talk about the sex life of our straight friends either.

As far as being a Cafeteria Catholic, about the only issue I have with the church is the stance on birth control. I do feel that is a very outdated belief and that yes, 2000 years ago, I can see the need to go forth and populate the world but we have done that, time to move on to something else.

I agree with this (mostly). I also realize the Church is made up of humans and humans are fallible. I don't agree with the way the church handled the scandal nor do I agree with the lawyers who are profiting from its deep pockets or the people who are just drewling at the thought of a fracture in the Church - my thoughts? Screw off, focus on your own religion, and get out of mine.

 

[RickinNYC]

I guess I would say that my experience growing up Catholic was different from yours in respect to the "homophobic" teachings of the church. The Catholic Church does not condemn the homosexual, it does not approve of the homosexual act and to me that is a HUGE difference. Personally, I agree with that that teaching. I do not have issues with people being gay, I do not agree with Gay sex, however. I am certainly not going to tell anyone how to live their life, I am not going to protest any anti-gay anything, I have friends that are gay I just don't talk about their sex life, nor to I talk about the sex life of our straight friends either.

Not true at all. The catholic church recently decreed that NO homosexual is to become a priest. The church does not take into consideration that the potential priest was celibate, which renders one's sexuality null and void. If you ask me, that is not "love the sinner, hate the sin."

On that note, what does a private act in my own bedroom, behind closed and locked doors, between two consenting ADULTS have anything to do with being a good Catholic? If homosexuality is indeed a sin, then it is entirely between me and God and absolutely not a single other person on this entire planet whatseover. And that includes priests, who are merely human and never entitled to place judgement.

FWIW, being gay is not the only factor in my decision turn my back on the Catholic church (not an easy decision for me by the way). They're entire belief system is completely against my own, in terms of a woman's right to choose, the rhythm method (a ridiculous concept if you ask me), contraception, the woman's role in the church and on and on and on.

I'm most definitely not a Catholic basher by any stretch. I just choose not to participate in a church that has chosen to condemn me, my partner and millions of others on this diverse planet.

 

[nuke]

I used to feel guilty about not going to church but then I actually started going again and my attitude changed. I don't go every week but I don't feel guilty anymore and I certainly get much more out of the mass when I do go. I can't tell you what made me change my mind but whatever. I also selectively listen to the homily. If it's about pro-life stuff I tune it out. They aren't talking to me so I don't listen. I have a much better feeling in church now.

My son goes to Catholic school and I love our parish and school. It really is an extended family.

 

[golfgal]

On that note, what does a private act in my own bedroom, behind closed and locked doors, between two consenting ADULTS have anything to do with being a good Catholic? If homosexuality is indeed a sin, then it is entirely between me and God and absolutely not a single other person on this entire planet whatseover. And that includes priests, who are merely human and never entitled to place judgement.

.

Absolutely nothing at all, in my opinion. There are plenty of people that "fit the mold" of a "Good Catholic" that are horrible people.

 

[mrsltg]

FWIW, being gay is not the only factor in my decision turn my back on the Catholic church (not an easy decision for me by the way). They're entire belief system is completely against my own, in terms of a woman's right to choose, the rhythm method (a ridiculous concept if you ask me), contraception, the woman's role in the church and on and on and on.

Let me correct something here - It's not the "rhythm method" it's natural family planning and about the BEST thing a woman can do to understand herself. In fact, if you watch the threads on "trying to conceive" many people, myself included, recommend a book that teaches women *exactly* that. It's natural family planning.

 

[JunieJay]

Not true at all. The catholic church recently decreed that NO homosexual is to become a priest. The church does not take into consideration that the potential priest was celibate, which renders one's sexuality null and void. If you ask me, that is not "love the sinner, hate the sin."

On that note, what does a private act in my own bedroom, behind closed and locked doors, between two consenting ADULTS have anything to do with being a good Catholic? If homosexuality is indeed a sin, then it is entirely between me and God and absolutely not a single other person on this entire planet whatseover. And that includes priests, who are merely human and never entitled to place judgement.

FWIW, being gay is not the only factor in my decision turn my back on the Catholic church (not an easy decision for me by the way). They're entire belief system is completely against my own, in terms of a woman's right to choose, the rhythm method (a ridiculous concept if you ask me), contraception, the woman's role in the church and on and on and on.

I'm most definitely not a Catholic basher by any stretch. I just choose not to participate in a church that has chosen to condemn me, my partner and millions of others on this diverse planet.

I feel the same way as you do on many of the same issues. Yet I guess I feel I can seperate the man-made rules from the God-given and still go to Mass (which I love to do -- it always gives me such peace....I sometimes have to force myself to go, but once I'm there I find much needed solace!)

 

[RickinNYC]

Thought you might be interested in this, from Catholic World News:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39700

Pope approves barring gay seminarians

Vatican, Sep. 22, 2005 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.

The new document-- which was prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education, in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II (bio - news) in 1994-- will be published soon. It will take the form of an "Instruction," signed by the prefect and secretary of the Congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller.

The text, which was approved by Pope Benedict at the end of August, says that homosexual men should not be admitted to seminaries even if they are celibate, because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers.

Priests who have already been ordained, if they suffer from homosexual impulses, are strongly urged to renew their dedication to chastity, and a manner of life appropriate to the priesthood.

The Instruction does not represent a change in Church teaching or policy. Catholic leaders have consistently taught that homosexual men should not be ordained to the priesthood. Pope John XXIII approved a formal policy to that effect, which still remains in effect. However, during the 1970s and 1980s, that policy was widely ignored, particularly in North America. The resulting crisis in the priesthood-- in which one prominent American commentator observed that the priesthood was coming to be seen as a "gay" profession-- prompted Pope John Paul II to call for a new study on the question.

The Congregation for Catholic Education prepared the Instruction after soliciting advice from all of the world's bishops, from psychologists, and from moral theologians. A draft of the Instruction was then circulated among the Vatican dicasteries concerned with the issue, notably including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The pending release of the Instruction, in the face of certain criticism from liberal forces in America and Western Europe, demonstrates the determination of the Vatican to improve the quality of priestly ministry, and to protect the Church from some of the scandals that have recently shaken the Catholic community-- and no doubt deterred many men from entering priestly training.

Informed sources in Rome indicate that the Instruction probably will be made public after the Synod of Bishops, which meets in Rome from October 2 through 23.

 

[RickinNYC]

Let me correct something here - It's not the "rhythm method" it's natural family planning and about the BEST thing a woman can do to understand herself. In fact, if you watch the threads on "trying to conceive" many people, myself included, recommend a book that teaches women *exactly* that. It's natural family planning.

I am aware that "rhythm method" is the same as "natural family planning." It's all semantics. Different name for the same thing. And natural family planning is recommended to all Catholics, even if you are NOT trying to concieve.

 

[Crankyshank]

I do know gay men currently in the seminary that have not been asked to leave. I am not sure if it is even known though.

My priest is not exactly open. He's very young for a priest (45) and I've known him 16yrs and he's from this area and those who knew him before he became a priest know he's gay but most people seem to just disregard that. My small town was pretty messed up because of the Father Porter scandal and really priests and sexual preference is a topic best avoided because the wound is still raw.

I have learned a lot from the DIS about the variety of Catholic teaching nowadays. I guess my area is a bit backward because we have a latin mass still (once a week and he faces the front - the mass is the same, just the language is different), and current topics are just not mentioned like gay marriage, homosexuality, abortion, the war, women in the church, etc...

 

[NJDad18]

My issue is that some parishes, not every church, is all about the $$$. My children go to catholic school. They started there in kindergarten b/c it was full time kindergarten whereas the public school was only half day. Since DW and I work half day kindergarten was not an option. We are very happy with the school.

Here's my big problem. Our giving history is reviewed each year by the pastor to see if we qualify for in-parish tuition rates. In the summer we are very often down the shore for the weekend. We make it a point to go to church while there, because your supposed to received the eucharist each week. The pastor told me that because we "missed" going to church for several weeks over the summer we would not qualify for in parish tuition. I even made up the missed "payments" when we were back at the church. I had a meeting with the pastor and I wrote him a check for $250 and magically qualified for in-parish tuition rates. The in-parish rates really help when you have multiple kids in the school.

It's all about the money and that's a shame.

 

[nuke]

Let me correct something here - It's not the "rhythm method" it's natural family planning and about the BEST thing a woman can do to understand herself. In fact, if you watch the threads on "trying to conceive" many people, myself included, recommend a book that teaches women *exactly* that. It's natural family planning.

I did natural family planning. I planned on getting pregnant, tried until I did and then I made sure I didn't get pregnant again.

 

[mrsltg]

I am aware that "rhythm method" is the same as "natural family planning." It's all semantics. Different name for the same thing. And natural family planning is recommended to all Catholics, even if you are NOT trying to concieve.

Right, because it's VERY easy to do and keeps the responsibility in the marriage between to two people in the marriage as opposed to simply the one taking the birth control. You simply abstain a few days per month. Really not difficult at all. And no, the rhythm method is NOT the same thing. I highly recommend Toni Weschler's great book, Taking Charge of your Fertility, for clairification.

 

[minniecarousel]

Yup - Cafeteria Catholic - that describes me. I have been making a very conscious effort to go to Church every Sunday lately, because I bring Communion home to my Mom. She just isn't up to the Sunday morning routine (or even on Saturday afternoon, for that matter.) There is a certain comfort in going to Mass. At times in my life, it has been exactly what I needed - but there I go: it really isn't about me. oh well.

 

[goofygirl]

I think we should start "The American Catholic Church"...and I am not kidding.

Well, there's something kind of like that already- you can be Anglo-Catholic, it's a sect of the Episcopal church, aka "Catholic Lite", lol. All the splendor of a Catholic Mass with no Pope or guilt!

 

[SandraVB79]

And natural family planning is recommended to all Catholics, even if you are NOT trying to concieve.

I went 14 years long to catholic schools, and you know what? In my last year of high school (at a girl's school, lead by nuns), we had many many information sessions about relationships, anticonception and we even learned how to use a condom. I guess their idea was "better safe than sorry", and I am still very grateful we did learn that. It's not because you know how to do something, that you have to use that skill immediately.


Golfgal, I think I know what game you mean. It's a game that isn't played here anymore, except on special "heritage" occasions.

 

[mrsltg]

My issue is that some parishes, not every church, is all about the $$$. My children go to catholic school. They started there in kindergarten b/c it was full time kindergarten whereas the public school was only half day. Since DW and I work half day kindergarten was not an option. We are very happy with the school.

Here's my big problem. Our giving history is reviewed each year by the pastor to see if we qualify for in-parish tuition rates. In the summer we are very often down the shore for the weekend. We make it a point to go to church while there, because your supposed to received the eucharist each week. The pastor told me that because we "missed" going to church for several weeks over the summer we would not qualify for in parish tuition. I even made up the missed "payments" when we were back at the church. I had a meeting with the pastor and I wrote him a check for $250 and magically qualified for in-parish tuition rates. The in-parish rates really help when you have multiple kids in the school.

It's all about the money and that's a shame.

You know, I promise myself I won't get sucked into these debates but here I am....

Yes, parishes need money to run. They, like Disney, do not exist on pixie dust. Yes, to qualify for in-parish tuition rates you need to contribute to the church (IF YOU ARE ABLE). Those donations help cover the cost of those in the school who cannot pay tuition. Not to mention, heating and cooling, lights, maintenance, etc etc etc.