Buying DVC dilemma

[AtomicFrog]

Sooo.... I've tried to research this, but there are so many opinions and variables, I figured I would throw this out there for your thoughts.... I've always been fine staying at the All Star resorts, but would love to spoil my friends and family at GF every year or so. I've done some points renting and that's a pretty cost effective way to stay there, but want to buy my own DVC. I have a chance to get OKW with 210 points per year and 420 banked and full points for 2018 for $70pp or GF with 100 points per year with 200 banked and full points for 2018 for $150, and there is always direct purchase of GF. I'm on another DVC deed so I get all the perks, so there isn't much bonus to direct for me. So would it be better to get the more points and then roll the dice on getting a studio, 1 or 2 BR at GF anytime of the year when I can(I'm not picky about when I go... I do like Food and Wine, and Xmas Holiday decorations time though, like everyone else). I'm leaning towards the 100 at GF knowing at 11 months I have a shot at whatever I might want, but just not for as long..

I appreciate your thoughts..

 

[Ben E N]

If all you want is GF, I would go with those points. 7 month availability will only get more difficult as more resorts are added, especially for smaller resorts. Also, less points means you pay less for MFs.

 

[iheartglaciers]

If you’re getting the points to use only at GF, I would definitely buy there. It’s tempting to get cheaper points and take your chances, but if you’d be disappointed staying at OKW, than I think GF is the way to go. Assuming you can comfortably afford the contract without financing. I think with the amount of money you’re investing in DVC, you should get exactly what you want

The only other thing to consider is that more points give you more flexibility if our need to cancel. If you bank/borrow points for a stay, those points get stuck in that UY.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Marionnette]

Sooo.... I've tried to research this, but there are so many opinions and variables, I figured I would throw this out there for your thoughts.... I've always been fine staying at the All Star resorts, but would love to spoil my friends and family at GF every year or so. I've done some points renting and that's a pretty cost effective way to stay there, but want to buy my own DVC. I have a chance to get OKW with 210 points per year and 420 banked and full points for 2018 for $70pp or GF with 100 points per year with 200 banked and full points for 2018 for $150, and there is always direct purchase of GF. I'm on another DVC deed so I get all the perks, so there isn't much bonus to direct for me. So would it be better to get the more points and then roll the dice on getting a studio, 1 or 2 BR at GF anytime of the year when I can(I'm not picky about when I go... I do like Food and Wine, and Xmas Holiday decorations time though, like everyone else). I'm leaning towards the 100 at GF knowing at 11 months I have a shot at whatever I might want, but just not for as long..

I appreciate your thoughts..

A couple of thoughts for you to consider:

1. You will pay slightly more than double the dues each year for 210 OKW points vs. 100 VGF points. The current projection for 2018 is $6.7245 per point at OKW and $6.1329 per point at VGF. That's $1412,15 for 210 OKW points vs. $614 for 100 VGF points in 2018. And that will go up every year.
   
2. The VGF contract has 22 more years of use on it than the OKW contract. OKW expires in 2042, while VGF does not expire until 2064. That's 5460 OKW points vs. 4800 VGF points over the lives of the respective contracts.
3. VGF is a small resort with only 47 studios. Owning there is almost imperative if you want a studio. especially during fall frenzy. People who buy there expect to stay there and don't tend to switch resorts at the 7-month mark.
   
4. OTOH, 100 points does not go very far at VGF. A studio commands anywhere from 17 to 43 points per night, depending on the view and time of year. You would not be able to get a full week without banking or borrowing. 210 points at OKW will go much further and allow you more flexibility when it comes to booking non-home resorts.

And finally my opinion: If you're buying DVC to stay at VGF, then buy at VGF but buy enough points to be able to book a lake view villa at the time of year that you expect to travel most of the time. If you love OKW, don't mind the shorter contract life, and won't be disappointed if you cannot stay at VGF during most visits, then go with OKW.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It gets complicated because you're flexible in time and room size. It is definitely possible to book larger villas at VGF at 7 months. Studios even at some times of the year. Others have outlined the difference in end dates but you're paying a lot less for the OKW points too which is essentially compensating for that. I'd say the question is if the 100 points at VGF gives you enough for your planned trip? And are studios fine because unless you don't go ever year and bank/borrow points that is the size room you'll be getting for the 100 points for anything more than a short number of nights. Is 210 points too many? And do you plan to always stay at VGF or to move around? If always at VGF and you can book during the home priority then it's just going to be easiest to own there.

 

[Geomom]

It is a tough decision for you. It really depends on if you'd be happy staying somewhere other than VGF.

Our first contract is at OKW and we've had great success booking other resorts online at 8AM at 7 mths out...but, I go into it with a 'wishlist' of resorts that I'd like to stay at and don't always get my first choice. We have stayed at VGF in a studio...but that was shortly after VGF opened, so there was more availability. I haven't tried to get it since then--we like to mix it up a bit. We bought a small BWV contract so that we could book it at 11 mths out for Food and Wine or Thanksgiving week--it cost more than our OKW contract (by $22/pt) but it's worth it to us.

 

[AtomicFrog]

It gets complicated because you're flexible in time and room size. It is definitely possible to book larger villas at VGF at 7 months. Studios even at some times of the year. Others have outlined the difference in end dates but you're paying a lot less for the OKW points too which is essentially compensating for that. I'd say the question is if the 100 points at VGF gives you enough for your planned trip? And are studios fine because unless you don't go ever year and bank/borrow points that is the size room you'll be getting for the 100 points for anything more than a short number of nights. Is 210 points too many? And do you plan to always stay at VGF or to move around? If always at VGF and you can book during the home priority then it's just going to be easiest to own there.

My original thinking was I would bank or borrow with the 100 GF points and do that "guaranteed" or better chance week long +/- trip every other year
in a studio or 1 BR. The OKW having 210 per year makes it a little easier, even more with banking or borrowing to get a 1BR or 2BR at GF at 7 months every year, and then if I chose another resort, I'm not spending GF points to stay at AK or such...

 

[gharter]

I am still under the philosophy of buy where you want to stay. Buying cheaper points at a different Home Resort is tempting, but at 7 months you may not be able to stay where you want. If you are going to stay during a busy time, that is even more important. There are fewer down times as well.

 

[Marionnette]

My original thinking was I would bank or borrow with the 100 GF points and do that "guaranteed" or better chance week long +/- trip every other year
in a studio or 1 BR. The OKW having 210 per year makes it a little easier, even more with banking or borrowing to get a 1BR or 2BR at GF at 7 months every year, and then if I chose another resort, I'm not spending GF points to stay at AK or such...

I really think that it will depend on how you intend to use your points in the long run. If you want to be able to use those points at other resorts without feeling as if you have "wasted your expensive" VGF points on a lesser resort, then go with the OKW contract. If staying at VGF on a regular basis is your goal, then buy VGF.

Although, I will point out that given the termination dates for the two resorts' contracts, the VGF points are not as expensive as you might think. Using the number of points that I mentioned in my PP and basing the calculations on the 2018 projected dues, VGF points would cost you $9.26 per point in 2018 while OKW points would cost you $9.42 per point.

VGF 100 points @$150 per point = $15,000 (not including settlement costs)

$15,000 ÷ 4,800 (the total number of points you will get over the life of the contract) = $3.215 per point
$3.215 + $6.1329 (annual dues for 2018) = $9.2579 final cost of a 2018 VGF point​

OKW 210 points @$70 per point = $14,700 (not including settlement costs)

$14,700 ÷ 5,460 (the total number of points you will get over the life of the contract) = $2.6923 per point
$2.6923 + $6.7245 (annual dues for 2018) = $9.4168 final cost of a 2018 OKW point​

 

[Dean]

Sooo.... I've tried to research this, but there are so many opinions and variables, I figured I would throw this out there for your thoughts.... I've always been fine staying at the All Star resorts, but would love to spoil my friends and family at GF every year or so. I've done some points renting and that's a pretty cost effective way to stay there, but want to buy my own DVC. I have a chance to get OKW with 210 points per year and 420 banked and full points for 2018 for $70pp or GF with 100 points per year with 200 banked and full points for 2018 for $150, and there is always direct purchase of GF. I'm on another DVC deed so I get all the perks, so there isn't much bonus to direct for me. So would it be better to get the more points and then roll the dice on getting a studio, 1 or 2 BR at GF anytime of the year when I can(I'm not picky about when I go... I do like Food and Wine, and Xmas Holiday decorations time though, like everyone else). I'm leaning towards the 100 at GF knowing at 11 months I have a shot at whatever I might want, but just not for as long..

I appreciate your thoughts..

As you're posted and to use almost exclusively at VGF, I'd buy there. You'll have access to standard view while that's not likely to be the case at 7 months out. I suspect 100 points won't be enough so you may want to consider an option 3 & 4. Buying a larger contract at VGF or around 100 plus a different contract in addition. It sounds like you have enough info with stays and rentals to proceed and make reasonable decisions. If you decide on 2, I'd do the VGF first and see how it goes then decide on the second in a year or 2.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

100 even with banking/borrowing wont go far at VGF. It’s something I failed to truly consider when debating between a smaller BCV contract and a larger VGF contract. Ultimately, I took VGF because I truly adore it and my husband says no other resort will do because he is a golfing addict. One week in October in a studio lake view is 153. I couldn’t even get a standard view studio without gaps at the 11mo window. Since you’re flexible, you should be able to get it but a 1 bedroom would be a big outlay.

Given that your other choice is OKW, for me its a no brainer- VGF all day. If the choice were BLT or BCV or even Poly, you would get a lot more variables. You can always 7 mo at OKW. And the extra 20 years seems hard to justify losing.

 

[.landry]

im so glad i just found this because i was just talking about this today and @kboo said something that made me rethink my entire plan.
I was 100% on board with VGF but, as opposed to you, I want to try out a bunch of different places and then I realized that id be using the points that I spent $135-145 pp on to stay at AKL (no shade, Im super excited to check it out) and then buying VGF started to look less smart. If Im going to be bouncing around a lot maybe a much larger contract at SSR that would give me enough points to book bigger or a more point heavy room at VGF at the 7 mo mark might be better since Im not married to staying there every time. So we are in the opposite boat. The way i look at it, Im flexible and can stay pretty much anywhere and at 7 months there are rooms to be had if you have enough points to cover something other than a std studio.
Now i have to un-convince DW about VGF being our "it" resort

 

[Dean]

im so glad i just found this because i was just talking about this today and @kboo said something that made me rethink my entire plan.
I was 100% on board with VGF but, as opposed to you, I want to try out a bunch of different places and then I realized that id be using the points that I spent $135-145 pp on to stay at AKL (no shade, Im super excited to check it out) and then buying VGF started to look less smart. If Im going to be bouncing around a lot maybe a much larger contract at SSR that would give me enough points to book bigger or a more point heavy room at VGF at the 7 mo mark might be better since Im not married to staying there every time. So we are in the opposite boat. The way i look at it, Im flexible and can stay pretty much anywhere and at 7 months there are rooms to be had if you have enough points to cover something other than a std studio.
Now i have to un-convince DW about VGF being our "it" resort

VGF used for other options routinely is not a good plan financially. One should be able to get in there some of the time owning elsewhere. IMO once you get below 80% of the time at a high cost resort it becomes financially unreasonable. Depending in volume, one might want to buy some points there and buy elsewhere for most of the points but this would require a planned purchase in the 200-300 or more point range to be a reasonable approach. I don't think it makes sense to buy 75 there and 75 elsewhere as an example. One approach for VGF owning elsewhere is to try and possibly wait list most every trip figuring you'll get in occasionally.

 

[Cyberc1978]

VGF used for other options routinely is not a good plan financially. One should be able to get in there some of the time owning elsewhere. IMO once you get below 80% of the time at a high cost resort it becomes financially unreasonable. Depending in volume, one might want to buy some points there and buy elsewhere for most of the points but this would require a planned purchase in the 200-300 or more point range to be a reasonable approach. I don't think it makes sense to buy 75 there and 75 elsewhere as an example. One approach for VGF owning elsewhere is to try and possibly wait list most every trip figuring you'll get in occasionally.

I think you are right Dean, the higher cost resorts would require you to use that resorts for the majority of your trips. Take BCV the price has sky rocketed in 2017, new buyers of that resort should mostly be using the points at BCV. If not they might as well just buy somewhere else and save the money. I do however think that new owners of BCV are using their points at their home resort and not sleeping around.

As OP like to go during F&W and xmas you need to own at VGF to stay there at least for the studios and 2BR, dont know about the 1BR. OP if you go during summer time then you could buy OKW and use the points at VGF. Just have in mind that with more new resorts coming that means more owners fighting for the same rooms at 7 months. So what might work next year might not work the year after.

I'm also "buy where you want to stay" type of guy. a few months back I got a good deal on BWV which to me justify sleeping around. We mostly go during apr-sept and during that time most resorts has availability (for now). If time changes and I can't use my points at e.g VGF during the 7 months window I can always rent my points and then rent VGF points. For now I just want to use my points at BWV.

 

[Dean]

I think you are right Dean, the higher cost resorts would require you to use that resorts for the majority of your trips. Take BCV the price has sky rocketed in 2017, new buyers of that resort should mostly be using the points at BCV. If not they might as well just buy somewhere else and save the money. I do however think that new owners of BCV are using their points at their home resort and not sleeping around.

As OP like to go during F&W and xmas you need to own at VGF to stay there at least for the studios and 2BR, dont know about the 1BR. OP if you go during summer time then you could buy OKW and use the points at VGF. Just have in mind that with more new resorts coming that means more owners fighting for the same rooms at 7 months. So what might work next year might not work the year after.

I'm also "buy where you want to stay" type of guy. a few months back I got a good deal on BWV which to me justify sleeping around. We mostly go during apr-sept and during that time most resorts has availability (for now). If time changes and I can't use my points at e.g VGF during the 7 months window I can always rent my points and then rent VGF points. For now I just want to use my points at BWV.

IMO it's possible to get in any time even studios but it will be more difficult and a lower % of the time some times of the year compared to others and it will create extra work and consternation. The problem with the "buy where you want to stay" recommendation is that essential zero new buyers actually know that information even when they think they do. There may be LIMITED exceptions for second generation type buyers or those who have a significant amount of both Disney on property and rental experience.

Whether a new resort creates more owners fighting for reservations depends on the demand of the new resort. For VGF that's likely true regardless but it isn't necessarily so for all other new resorts. It comes down to the inherent demand of that resort. Certainly another SSR like resort could make it totally unworkable. But it still doesn't change the principle unless one is going to buy multiple home resorts.

 

[Cyberc1978]

IMO it's possible to get in any time even studios but it will be more difficult and a lower % of the time some times of the year compared to others and it will create extra work and consternation. The problem with the "buy where you want to stay" recommendation is that essential zero new buyers actually know that information even when they think they do. There may be LIMITED exceptions for second generation type buyers or those who have a significant amount of both Disney on property and rental experience.

Whether a new resort creates more owners fighting for reservations depends on the demand of the new resort. For VGF that's likely true regardless but it isn't necessarily so for all other new resorts. It comes down to the inherent demand of that resort. Certainly another SSR like resort could make it totally unworkable. But it still doesn't change the principle unless one is going to buy multiple home resorts.

You are right that most owners dont know but if they just buy DVC without doing their research then they end up disappointed. If you dont buy where you want to stay you should buy where you can get the cheapest points for the cheapest overall price. Doing that will in some certainty bring disappointments to your ownership.

I dont think difficult is the right word during the fall frenzy. If you as an SSR owner gets a studio for say 5-6-7 days in BCV, BWV, BLT, VGF, PVB or BRV. Then I'll call it pure luck or someone have given you some serious pixi dust . I agree you might get a few days here and there. Again some people do get pixi dusted and get the days they want but that dont happen for the majority of owners.

Agree If DVC manage to create a new high demand resort then the owners from that resort will not contribute much to the problem but if its a new SSR then they will. Another thing as a new direct owner you will always in some way contribute to the 7 month problem as you have a justified wish of staying at all/most of the DVC resorts. Only current owners which already knows which resorts they like and dont like wont contribute.

 

[Dean]

You are right that most owners dont know but if they just buy DVC without doing their research then they end up disappointed. If you dont buy where you want to stay you should buy where you can get the cheapest points for the cheapest overall price. Doing that will in some certainty bring disappointments to your ownership.

I dont think difficult is the right word during the fall frenzy. If you as an SSR owner gets a studio for say 5-6-7 days in BCV, BWV, BLT, VGF, PVB or BRV. Then I'll call it pure luck or someone have given you some serious pixi dust . I agree you might get a few days here and there. Again some people do get pixi dusted and get the days they want but that dont happen for the majority of owners.

Agree If DVC manage to create a new high demand resort then the owners from that resort will not contribute much to the problem but if its a new SSR then they will. Another thing as a new direct owner you will always in some way contribute to the 7 month problem as you have a justified wish of staying at all/most of the DVC resorts. Only current owners which already knows which resorts they like and dont like wont contribute.

I don't think it's as difficult as you do but the may be splitting hairs somewhat. Certainly some don't have the stomach for the uncertainty but many of those shouldn't buy DVC rather than buying an overly expensive resort.

 

[crisi]

I don't think it's as difficult as you do but the may be splitting hairs somewhat. Certainly some don't have the stomach for the uncertainty but many of those shouldn't buy DVC rather than buying an overly expensive resort.

I suspect fewer people have the stomach for uncertainty than no clue where they should buy.

I think most people have a pretty good idea where they would likely be happy owning, and perhaps more importantly, where they wouldn't be happy owning. If the animals and darker decorations of VAKL don't do anything for you, you can cross that off your list. I know, with certainty, that I will never waste my time checking out SSR - I don't like the location, I don't like the room decor, I don't like how spread out it is - unless I'm bringing guest who want SSR or I have a last minute trip where its my only option - so if I never want to stay there, it wouldn't be under consideration for purchase.

Now, its possible that you'd arrive and book a stay at VGF and discover you love it there, much more than the BCV points you bought. But I really doubt that's the case for most people. For most people, they are looking backwards at memories, and they have a favorite park, and they have a theme that speaks to them - and perhaps some other priorities (like they love SAB or they know they'll need Grand Villas). I think most people who buy DVC - and most people looking for advice here - have taken half a dozen or more trips to Disney. If you have a clear favorite, or something you don't like - then its pretty clear. If you don't have a clear favorite, all the choices that are on your list to buy you'll likely be happy with.

The people here who have been unhappy with their purchased resort have been those that bought what was being sold, and didn't check out resale, or got caught up in the hype of a new resort or bought for price.

 

[Dean]

I suspect fewer people have the stomach for uncertainty than no clue where they should buy.

I think most people have a pretty good idea where they would likely be happy owning, and perhaps more importantly, where they wouldn't be happy owning. If the animals and darker decorations of VAKL don't do anything for you, you can cross that off your list. I know, with certainty, that I will never waste my time checking out SSR - I don't like the location, I don't like the room decor, I don't like how spread out it is - unless I'm bringing guest who want SSR or I have a last minute trip where its my only option - so if I never want to stay there, it wouldn't be under consideration for purchase.

Now, its possible that you'd arrive and book a stay at VGF and discover you love it there, much more than the BCV points you bought. But I really doubt that's the case for most people. For most people, they are looking backwards at memories, and they have a favorite park, and they have a theme that speaks to them - and perhaps some other priorities (like they love SAB or they know they'll need Grand Villas). I think most people who buy DVC - and most people looking for advice here - have taken half a dozen or more trips to Disney. If you have a clear favorite, or something you don't like - then its pretty clear. If you don't have a clear favorite, all the choices that are on your list to buy you'll likely be happy with.

The people here who have been unhappy with their purchased resort have been those that bought what was being sold, and didn't check out resale, or got caught up in the hype of a new resort or bought for price.

IMO other than second generation or similar situations or those with a lot of experience that includes several DVC rentals, NO new buyer has enough knowledge or experience to know where they want to stay most of the time but most will think they know. Obviously as the system changes and new resorts come on board, it can and usually will change for all of us but that's different IMO. IMO it's far better to buy say SSR and hate it and the system than to buy VGF love it but stay half the time elsewhere on those points. One can always adjust later if they need to but the financial risk on the low side is so much less than on the high side.

 

[crisi]

IMO other than second generation or similar situations or those with a lot of experience that includes several DVC rentals, NO new buyer has enough knowledge or experience to know where they want to stay most of the time but most will think they know. Obviously as the system changes and new resorts come on board, it can and usually will change for all of us but that's different IMO. IMO it's far better to buy say SSR and hate it and the system than to buy VGF love it but stay half the time elsewhere on those points. One can always adjust later if they need to but the financial risk on the low side is so much less than on the high side.

I disagree. I think if one knows themselves and bothers to research, a person can make a reasonable decision without experience. I think MOST DVCers have, and MOST have been content.

I also think that since DVC continues to open new resorts, there is always the possibility that the next resort to open will be your favorite. There aren't a lot of owners of OKW or BWV on here saying they wish they would have waited for the Poly. They are also going to continue to make changes to existing resorts - if you bought SSR because you love the old Pleasure Island, you may still be disappointed. I much preferred the old BWV decor - I hate the generic hotel room feel and if I were buying now I wouldn't. And they'll continue to make changes to the parks. If you are going to do this, do it. Don't go into analysis paralysis over it. DVC and Disney will change over the contract life anyway.

I learned to make huge multi million dollar purchase decisions off a process called Kepner Tragoe. As long as you can identify your wants and needs, and research to measure them against each other - you can have enough information to make an intelligent decision. I have yet to be steered wrong in twenty years of use (I've been steered wrong when executives have overridden the outcome) And plenty of information is available about DVC resorts.