Buying at Riviera?

[DVC Doctor]

But, to give you an idea....I just booked a 1 bedroom SV at RIV for next October today, 9 months out. As an owner there, I bought not only because I love the place, but also so I can use points for SV and believe owning is the best way.

I agree, and this applies to most resorts - "buy where you want to stay" - but I will modify that to add - make a smart financial buying decision and don't use high interest rate financing.

 

[sethschroeder]

initial decisions were around 20% for SV

So from following a few different sources it was 20% then 28% now its roughly 37% of rooms. I am more likely to believe the latest revision in counts because people are actually staying in the resort and reporting back which rooms they got based on a booking category.

Just wanted to add it can change over time. My hope is that it does change in to 3 view categories of Standard, Epcot View, Lake View.

 

[Sandisw]

So from following a few different sources it was 20% then 28% now its roughly 37% of rooms. I am more likely to believe the latest revision in counts because people are actually staying in the resort and reporting back which rooms they got based on a booking category.

To clarify, they did not give me the % but said that they don’t publish or include that because of what you mention. They have found that once the resort is built and they can actually evaluate it, it may not fit the criteria they feel it should.

That is good to hear that it may have already been raised from initial reports. Cant say I agree it should change to 3 views and hope they do not do that.

 

[poofyo101]

I agree, and this applies to most resorts - "buy where you want to stay" - but I will modify that to add - make a smart financial buying decision and don't use high interest rate financing.

You know a majority of people buying DVC buy with their emotions instead of their logic. The interest rate is insane.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

I agree, and this applies to most resorts - "buy where you want to stay" - but I will modify that to add - make a smart financial buying decision and don't use high interest rate financing.

Great advice. I really think that once we are through with COVID, Riviera will be similar to BCV in that you will absolutely need to own there to be able to obtain anything but scattered day reservations at 7 months. This level of popularity should serve to support resale market sales to a price well above what a lot of people are speculating. I don't think the resale restriction will scare people off that want to stay at this resort. Time will tell.

 

[havoc315]

We are interested in buying at Riviera. We do not have any DVC contracts currently. I’ve been browsing the DVC boards since Nov and watching DVC show - but it’s unclear to me the best way to go about buying Riviera to get the best value. And it’s unclear if my calculations are correct at Riviera.

Are there any deals or recent deals I should know about buying direct? Or any scoop on how things have evolved buying RR DVC.

My family of 4 loves Disney, husband included.We have two high schoolers who still are not too cool for Disney and our Junior still wants to be an imagineer. Possibly headed to UCF - note we’re in Minnesota. We may relocate to FL in retirement - 12 -15 years - we may stay here and travel and include Disney about every other year into our retirement.

We loved the RR preferred view 1BR at TG - we love the more boutique styling and size. Generally skyliner is great and we “want to stay here” - something we heard is important.

Is it booking up at 11 months for the peak periods (but not Xmas)?

We want at least some direct points to allow flexibility with other properties - new ones in particular (DLHotel, others) though that isn’t guaranteed I know. And Beach Club, Boardwalk, Copper Creek and Bay lake appeal enough to tryout for stays. Even Key West seems ok when/if family grows.

It seems that any resale points cannot be used at Riviera unless they are from Riviera correct? So we would have to be happy to only stay at Riviera with any resale RR points, even if new resorts come online. Which is less desirable, so it feels like direct is better for us...

But pricing out the cost of Riviera, I have a hard time finding it much of a good value or savings Over getting a 30% to 35% room discount.

To stay in a one bedroom every other year for a week buying now:

200pts at $180 = $36000
Annual Dues: $8.38 x 200 = $1676 x 49 years
= 82124 + 36000 = $118,124 approximate investment.

A one bedroom preferred view for a week is 1100x7= 7784
Then at a 30% discount (approx 5450) every other year would take approx 21 stays or more to recoup costs... 40 years... .

What am I missing that makes this a good deal at all? A wrong assumption I can get a 30% discount at RR into the future? Even with 20% the DVC isn’t a great bargain. An assumption that the rack rate is going to keep increasing therefore the deal is that much better? How much more expensive can these rooms get? Will they be double their current cost? Unlikely. Will they go up? Yes, but enough to make this a good value?!?! I find it hard to believe.

Please tell me I’m calculating something wrong cuz I would love to own RR DVC but it seems like I’m better off going with cash side... this is banking on it being available to book into the future with a reasonable (20-30%) discount of course...

One bedrooms are "overpriced" with points in comparison to cash. I'd have to run the math myself (not sure if you included taxes in the cash rate, which up it significantly), but compared to cash with a 30-35% discount, it likely would take a long time to break even. With likely increases in cash rate, you will also break even a little faster than you calculated...

But the reality is simply that 1 bedrooms are not great point values. If you stay exclusively at 1 bedrooms, you will not realize any massive savings compared to cash booking. I suspect you will break even faster than 40 years, but not sure how much faster.

Here is how I would run the calculation:
You are paying $180 per point, plus $8.32 per point annual. So "break even" is how long until you are *only* paying the annual dues. So if you get $25 of value per year in each point... then you hit that point after 11 years. At $20 of value per point, takes about 15 years. At $15 of value per point, it would take about 25 years to reach that point...

When you book 1 bedrooms, you are typically only getting $15-$20 of value per point...
I have an upcoming 1 week trip: Rack rate 1 bedroom would be $8,134. With 30% discount, it would be 5,692. Would be 364 points -- Only $15.6 value per point.
But we are actually staying in a 2br: Rack rate of $11,468. 30% off would be $8027 -- 455 points, comes out to $17.64 per point.
Studios or standard view rooms would get a significantly better per point value.. If I was staying in a standard studio, it would be $4837 cash rate -- $3386 with 30% discount -- 136 points, bringing it to $24.89 value per point! (so if you used all your points for studios, you'd break even in about 10 years).

Lesson being: If you are really only going to stay in 1 bedrooms, it may indeed take an awful long time to see real value. Potentially over 20 years. But if you stay in other types of units, especially studios, your break even point would accelerate significantly.

 

[sethschroeder]

I have an upcoming 1 week trip:

I think we have chatted about this upcoming stay before. The only thing I will add is that as you say people need to do that math. Early February is bottom of the barrel price for Rack Rate (and you are getting a 30% discount) on the flip side early February is actually a mid-tier pricing period for DVC.

When I was finalizing my larger Riviera purchase (already owned BWV) I had planned out 6 different stays (comprising different time periods and with and without kids) that likely would make up most of our stays over the next 50 years. This allowed me to easily see how much more expensive it was at Riviera compared to just buying at BWV on resale and make an informed decision.

 

[DVC Doctor]

I have an upcoming 1 week trip: Rack rate 1 bedroom would be $8,134. With 30% discount, it would be 5,692. Would be 364 points -- Only $15.6 value per point.
But we are actually staying in a 2br: Rack rate of $11,468. 30% off would be $8027 -- 455 points, comes out to $17.64 per point.
Studios or standard view rooms would get a significantly better per point value.. If I was staying in a standard studio, it would be $4837 cash rate -- $3386 with 30% discount -- 136 points, bringing it to $24.89 value per point! (so if you used all your points for studios, you'd break even in about 10 years).

ok, reality check here....

There is NO WAY that a studio Riviera is worth $691 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 1 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,162 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 2 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,638 per night (rack rate)

I love Disney, and have stayed in a 2 bedroom Riviera on resale SSR points, but these cash rack rates are a total ripoff. Seriously, how wealthy do you have to be to afford these rates. No take that back, how stupid do you have to be to pay these rates.

 

[Lorana]

ok, reality check here....

There is NO WAY that a studio Riviera is worth $691 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 1 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,162 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 2 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,638 per night (rack rate)

I love Disney, and have stayed in a 2 bedroom Riviera on resale SSR points, but these cash rack rates are a total ripoff. Seriously, how wealthy do you have to be to afford these rates. No take that back, how stupid do you have to be to pay these rates.

Right?

One of the things that motivated us at last to become DVC members was the fact that we realized between rising cash prices on the hotel rooms and the insane rising prices of tickets and annual pass prices, Disney was "pricing us out." Because the kind of money it was taking to stay at Disney, we could go to Europe or Tahiti or somewhere else on our bucket list.

But we WANT to keep going to Disney (and go to Europe, Tahiti, etc.)

We then evaluated DVC and the cost of Gold APs as a DVC member, and decided to take the DVC plunge because it would allow us to keep doing our Disney trip. Yes, it was a lot more upfront of course, but we intend to hold long term, and the resale market is strong enough that if we need to sell before then, we should be able to recoup our costs.

I'll also admit I'm one of those people who find it easier to "spend 125 DVC points" for a week in a Studio at Riviera than I would ever want to spend $4,537 for a week in a Studio at Riviera. As in, I'd NEVER spend $4537 for a week in Riviera; I'd stay at Pop Century or Caribbean Beach instead, much as I'd WANT the Riviera studio. Whereas 125 points is about $1,047.50 in dues.

 

[EM Lawrence]

ok, reality check here....

There is NO WAY that a studio Riviera is worth $691 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 1 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,162 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 2 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,638 per night (rack rate)

I love Disney, and have stayed in a 2 bedroom Riviera on resale SSR points, but these cash rack rates are a total ripoff. Seriously, how wealthy do you have to be to afford these rates. No take that back, how stupid do you have to be to pay these rates.

I love the Poly more than any other resort at Disney, but I feel the same way about its cash rates. $800 for a night at the Poly? Last time I went to NYC, you could get a basic room at the Waldorf for $600 a night. Granted, its been a few years since I’ve gone to NYC, but you get my drift. Even the total cash-flashing hotel snobs I know balk at Poly cash rates. But I guess someone is paying it.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Great advice. I really think that once we are through with COVID, Riviera will be similar to BCV in that you will absolutely need to own there to be able to obtain anything but scattered day reservations at 7 months. This level of popularity should serve to support resale market sales to a price well above what a lot of people are speculating. I don't think the resale restriction will scare people off that want to stay at this resort. Time will tell.

the resale restrictions will scare off a percentage of resale buyers at least for the first 5-10 years. In 10 years time, I agree resale will shift to RIV unless the epcot resort values tank.

 

[Lorana]

the resale restrictions will scare off a percentage of resale buyers at least for the first 5-10 years. In 10 years time, I agree resale will shift to RIV unless the epcot resort values tank.

Probably true, but small contracts may continue to be fine, because those are likely to be picked up by existing owners who are grabbing it to use only at Riviera (just like I picked up VGC points only to be used there).

 

[havoc315]

ok, reality check here....

There is NO WAY that a studio Riviera is worth $691 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 1 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,162 per night (rack rate)
There is NO WAY that a 2 bedroom Riviera is worth $1,638 per night (rack rate)

I love Disney, and have stayed in a 2 bedroom Riviera on resale SSR points, but these cash rack rates are a total ripoff. Seriously, how wealthy do you have to be to afford these rates. No take that back, how stupid do you have to be to pay these rates.

The market decides whether it’s a rip off. If people are willing to pay it, then it’s not a rip off.

Reality check... Disney does have trouble booking the rooms at full rack rates. Which is why 25-35% off is pretty common.

Riviera rack rates are pretty comparable to the rack rates at equivalent properties/rooms at other resorts.

Yes, rack rate at ALL WDW deluxe resorts is astronomical. Rack rates for just regular rooms at Grand Floridian are OVER $1,000 per night in many seasons.

Even at 25-35% off, the rates are astronomical.
But... reality is... with those 25-35% off discounts, people are willing to pay it.

 

[Spark65]

I love the Poly more than any other resort at Disney, but I feel the same way about its cash rates. $800 for a night at the Poly? Last time I went to NYC, you could get a basic room at the Waldorf for $600 a night. Granted, its been a few years since I’ve gone to NYC, but you get my drift. Even the total cash-flashing hotel snobs I know balk at Poly cash rates. But I guess someone is paying it.

The reason we finally bought DVC was POLY (favorite place to stay) at the time was 500-600 a night so 3-3.6K a week and it was much more than I felt reasonable considering what we used to pay.

 

[Leight19]

We are interested in buying at Riviera. We do not have any DVC contracts currently. I’ve been browsing the DVC boards since Nov and watching DVC show - but it’s unclear to me the best way to go about buying Riviera to get the best value. And it’s unclear if my calculations are correct at Riviera.

Are there any deals or recent deals I should know about buying direct? Or any scoop on how things have evolved buying RR DVC.

My family of 4 loves Disney, husband included.We have two high schoolers who still are not too cool for Disney and our Junior still wants to be an imagineer. Possibly headed to UCF - note we’re in Minnesota. We may relocate to FL in retirement - 12 -15 years - we may stay here and travel and include Disney about every other year into our retirement.

We loved the RR preferred view 1BR at TG - we love the more boutique styling and size. Generally skyliner is great and we “want to stay here” - something we heard is important.

Is it booking up at 11 months for the peak periods (but not Xmas)?

We want at least some direct points to allow flexibility with other properties - new ones in particular (DLHotel, others) though that isn’t guaranteed I know. And Beach Club, Boardwalk, Copper Creek and Bay lake appeal enough to tryout for stays. Even Key West seems ok when/if family grows.

It seems that any resale points cannot be used at Riviera unless they are from Riviera correct? So we would have to be happy to only stay at Riviera with any resale RR points, even if new resorts come online. Which is less desirable, so it feels like direct is better for us...

But pricing out the cost of Riviera, I have a hard time finding it much of a good value or savings Over getting a 30% to 35% room discount.

To stay in a one bedroom every other year for a week buying now:

200pts at $180 = $36000
Annual Dues: $8.38 x 200 = $1676 x 49 years
= 82124 + 36000 = $118,124 approximate investment.

A one bedroom preferred view for a week is 1100x7= 7784
Then at a 30% discount (approx 5450) every other year would take approx 21 stays or more to recoup costs... 40 years... .

What am I missing that makes this a good deal at all? A wrong assumption I can get a 30% discount at RR into the future? Even with 20% the DVC isn’t a great bargain. An assumption that the rack rate is going to keep increasing therefore the deal is that much better? How much more expensive can these rooms get? Will they be double their current cost? Unlikely. Will they go up? Yes, but enough to make this a good value?!?! I find it hard to believe.

Please tell me I’m calculating something wrong cuz I would love to own RR DVC but it seems like I’m better off going with cash side... this is banking on it being available to book into the future with a reasonable (20-30%) discount of course...

I’m late to the thread and haven’t read through all yet but one quick note is the 1BR are worse deal for cash per point then studio or 2br. If you were to run numbers on studio stays you would recoup cost much quicker. 2br likely would be in the middle of the two.

 

[princesscinderella]

I love the Poly more than any other resort at Disney, but I feel the same way about its cash rates. $800 for a night at the Poly? Last time I went to NYC, you could get a basic room at the Waldorf for $600 a night. Granted, its been a few years since I’ve gone to NYC, but you get my drift. Even the total cash-flashing hotel snobs I know balk at Poly cash rates. But I guess someone is paying it.

I think most people that are not DVC staying at WDW resorts and don’t have an AP stay on a package deal (room, tickets and dining plan) with it broken down per person per day so they don’t calculate out the true cost of that poly room nightly. They see package price.

 

[Mkaiser1]

Could DVC ever change the resale terms of Riviera so that resale Riviera could stay at other resorts? I assume they couldn't and wouldn't do it for those that have already bought Riviera resale but for those that own Riviera direct, could DVC change it so that when the contracts are sold they could be used to stay at other resorts?

 

[Eric Smith]

I’ve heard it many times on this board, but where you want to stay at. My wife likes riviera so we bought it. Happy wife, happy love life.

Boiler Up!

 

[Eric Smith]

We are interested in buying at Riviera. We do not have any DVC contracts currently. I’ve been browsing the DVC boards since Nov and watching DVC show - but it’s unclear to me the best way to go about buying Riviera to get the best value. And it’s unclear if my calculations are correct at Riviera.

Are there any deals or recent deals I should know about buying direct? Or any scoop on how things have evolved buying RR DVC.

My family of 4 loves Disney, husband included.We have two high schoolers who still are not too cool for Disney and our Junior still wants to be an imagineer. Possibly headed to UCF - note we’re in Minnesota. We may relocate to FL in retirement - 12 -15 years - we may stay here and travel and include Disney about every other year into our retirement.

We loved the RR preferred view 1BR at TG - we love the more boutique styling and size. Generally skyliner is great and we “want to stay here” - something we heard is important.

Is it booking up at 11 months for the peak periods (but not Xmas)?

We want at least some direct points to allow flexibility with other properties - new ones in particular (DLHotel, others) though that isn’t guaranteed I know. And Beach Club, Boardwalk, Copper Creek and Bay lake appeal enough to tryout for stays. Even Key West seems ok when/if family grows.

It seems that any resale points cannot be used at Riviera unless they are from Riviera correct? So we would have to be happy to only stay at Riviera with any resale RR points, even if new resorts come online. Which is less desirable, so it feels like direct is better for us...

But pricing out the cost of Riviera, I have a hard time finding it much of a good value or savings Over getting a 30% to 35% room discount.

To stay in a one bedroom every other year for a week buying now:

200pts at $180 = $36000
Annual Dues: $8.38 x 200 = $1676 x 49 years
= 82124 + 36000 = $118,124 approximate investment.

A one bedroom preferred view for a week is 1100x7= 7784
Then at a 30% discount (approx 5450) every other year would take approx 21 stays or more to recoup costs... 40 years... .

What am I missing that makes this a good deal at all? A wrong assumption I can get a 30% discount at RR into the future? Even with 20% the DVC isn’t a great bargain. An assumption that the rack rate is going to keep increasing therefore the deal is that much better? How much more expensive can these rooms get? Will they be double their current cost? Unlikely. Will they go up? Yes, but enough to make this a good value?!?! I find it hard to believe.

Please tell me I’m calculating something wrong cuz I would love to own RR DVC but it seems like I’m better off going with cash side... this is banking on it being available to book into the future with a reasonable (20-30%) discount of course...

I think the biggest issue with the math you're doing is that you assume that the current room discounts would be around in the future. Right now, discounts are as high and they're likely not going to be this high in the future. As someone else pointed out above, there are some good cash deals on Riviera since Disney still owns a significant portion of the resort. In the future, once the resort sells out, the discounts won't be nearly as high. If you buy in to DVC, your cost is locked in and won't be affected by any discounts being offered or not being offered.

Also make sure you're comparing the cash cost of the room to the point cost of the room for the same period of time. Point costs vary throughout the year and so do cash costs.

 

[Sandisw]

Could DVC ever change the resale terms of Riviera so that resale Riviera could stay at other resorts? I assume they couldn't and wouldn't do it for those that have already bought Riviera resale but for those that own Riviera direct, could DVC change it so that when the contracts are sold they could be used to stay at other resorts?

Yes, they have the power to change the terms of the restrictions if they want. They can also decide to add a fee, They can add it back, even if it is changed,

They pretty much gave themselves the power to adjust the restrictions in whatever way they want, When you buy direct, you sign a special paper that outlines this specifically so one can not claim it was buried in the fine print,

Do I see them ever just eliminating? No. But I certainly can see some new option being offered when new resorts are built that involve a one time reservation fee to use the points elsewhere or adding direct points that allow those restricted points to become eligible. Pure speculation on my part.