Buying an extension?

[tpclady]

I know that OKW was offered an extension of their contracts from 2042 to 2057. Does anyone know, or heard anything about, and extension for the other 2042 resorts. We own at Wilderness and now that it’s 2021 the 2042 date feels so close. I would love to be able to extend!

 

[Sandisw]

No, and most believe it won’t happen. However, if any resort was going to one Or something different done, it’s BRV.

I speculate that what will happen is those rooms will be added to CCV and then sold that way so everything ends at the same time.

They may give current owners first chance but I can not see it being an inexpensive option.

A extension requires the ground lease to be extended which, once done, applies to all owners and that is why OKW has been defined as a failure.

 

[RoseGold]

OKW extension was, in a word, a cluster.

Lawyers, uncertainty, a mess. There are still a lot of people who never paid for it and never quitclaimed it, and it's not really clear what will happen at the end: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvcs-old-key-west-extension-ordeal.3078317/

I highly doubt any resort will ever get another extension. Why would they anyway? Point charts are escalating quickly, and they can just throw some paint on something and resell it.

By 2042, the BRV and CCV charts will be looking very outdated. I don't see why they would sell more into those outdated charts.

 

[OKW Lover]

Conventional wisdom says that DVC won't offer an extension for other properties. That's based on assumptions about how well received the OKW offer was. Disney itself has never said anything positive or negative about the offer so all you will read is people's opinion.

 

[Bruggok]

DVD stands to raise point cost per room type AND make $200+ per point for Epcot DVCs. My guess is they'd give existing owners right of first refusion (hah hah) to buy at the list price a month before offering it to the public.

 

[chalee94]

Conventional wisdom says that DVC won't offer an extension for other properties. That's based on assumptions about how well received the OKW offer was. Disney itself has never said anything positive or negative about the offer so all you will read is people's opinion.

Not exactly.

Well, it's public record that less than 20% of OKW was extended during the offer period back in the late-2000s. It's a reasonable guess that they expected a higher take rate. Given the threats of DVC placing liens on OKW owners contracts and restricting their use of their points until they either purchased the extension or signed a quitclaim to waive their rights to the extension, it's reasonable to think that those DVC executives would not have expected owners to still be holding out over a decade later - but here we are...with DVC "generously" not exercising their legal right to act...or else being told that they overstepped (more likely IMO). As I have said before, I suspect a much higher percentage of BCV owners would now be willing to challenge DVC as to the legality of a similar extension to see if they could get it for free...

It's also public record that Disney is on track to own over half of OKW in 2042. If they can't find a way to profitably ROFR/foreclose on more OKW contracts and sell them directly to new owners (as OKW-2057 contracts) at a much higher rate than they have in the past decade, that will create a major headache.

It's also based on the argument (with obvious quantitative support) that the 2042 point charts tend to be lower than the newer DVC resort point charts. In order to raise the point charts at BWV, for example, DVC needs to start over.

It's also based on the new resale restrictions. In order to add those resale restrictions to the 2042 resorts, DVC needs to start over.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

You can't extend any of the 2042 resorts' land leases without defacto extending every deed holder. This is just legal fact. Disney done screwed up with OKW.

An "extension" at BRV is likely to be a new condo association set to expire with CCV, possibly with whatever restrictions are trendy by 2042. But it won't be extending current contracts so much as offering out new contracts that expire with CCV. Because unless they let the land lease expire, they have significant issues.

BCV and BWV is a lot of money left on the table if they keep the points charts. A lot.

And the fact that every OKW resale since the extension has to sign a quitclaim if it's a 2042 speaks to the issue. The quitclaim is specific to the extension.

 

[APiratesLifeForMe2]

I honestly expect they will do something but I don’t know what. They have too many resorts expiring in 2042 to just let them all expire and start over.

 

[Ginamarie]

Since OKW was such a mess, I don't see them going the extension route again. I think those resorts are going to turn over and owners may be given a special discount to buy into the new resorts.

 

[chalee94]

They have too many resorts expiring in 2042 to just let them all expire and start over.

This keeps coming up but I don't get it.

BCV and BRV combined together are roughly the same number of villas as RIV. They are pretty small unless Disney opts to do significant construction to change number of villas in a resort (which would push back the potential sales window).

BWV is fairly large but OTOH, the total points for all 3 resorts is currently a little less than 10 million points. Even if they increase the point charts by 20%-25%, the 3 resorts combined will be smaller than SSR and with better locations to sell. I don't think Disney would have any trouble renting villas for cash in these 3 locations during the sales process.

The beach resorts are a complete non-issue.

Due to the trainwreck of the extension, OKW is kind of its own thing now. Will Disney try to finagle the units owned and shutter part of the resort? Maybe use their units for corporate purposes if they can't rent them? Try to sell 15 year memberships at a discounted rate? That will probably be interesting.

A lot can still happen in 20 years but re-selling the 3 expiring resorts in 2042 doesn't seem like that big of an issue when you break down the numbers.

 

[D-Trick]

An "extension" at BRV is likely to be a new condo association set to expire with CCV, possibly with whatever restrictions are trendy by 2042.

Excellent thought.

To piggyback, has anyone wondered if somewhere down the road, new resorts will have shorter land leases? I'm envisioning this as a way to make the buy in costs more attractive for new members as prices continue to rise. I imagine DVD can easily sell a 25 year contract for a new BWV or BCV for $250+/pt (in 2043 dollars) with new point charts.

 

[ScubaCat]

DVD stands to raise point cost per room type AND make $200+ per point for Epcot DVCs. My guess is they'd give existing owners right of first refusion (hah hah) to buy at the list price a month before offering it to the public.

I might buy back in (if I'm still alive), but ONLY if I get a free DVC backpack.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I might buy back in (if I'm still alive), but ONLY if I get a free DVC backpack.

They will only be offering fanny packs.

 

[ScubaCat]

They will only be offering fanny packs.

Probably the usual WDW ones without elastic that don't stay up, too. Oh well...

 

[CastAStone]

Depends if Disney ever finds itself incredibly cash strapped. If they do something stupid like spin off Theme Parks that’s possible.

Or if Disney sees Climate Change as an existential threat to its operations in Orlando, they would Probably try to timeshare out / extend as much as possible to reduce their risk / cash out. Use the proceeds to build a park near Buffalo.

 

[Lorana]

Depends if Disney ever finds itself incredibly cash strapped. If they do something stupid like spin off Theme Parks that’s possible.

Or if Disney sees Climate Change as an existential threat to its operations in Orlando, they would Probably try to timeshare out / extend as much as possible to reduce their risk / cash out. Use the proceeds to build a park near Buffalo.

On an aside, as much as we’re planning for the long haul and retirement, we’ve actually talked a bit about our worry that in 20+ years vacationing in Florida may not be a thing we want to do, and so we did debate if we should still with 2042 expiration dates. Ultimately we decided to go for longer contracts hoping we could sell in 20 years if we wanted out.

I would be very happy if the built a new Disney World in the northeast!

 

[The Jackal]

This keeps coming up but I don't get it.

BCV and BRV combined together are roughly the same number of villas as RIV. They are pretty small unless Disney opts to do significant construction to change number of villas in a resort (which would push back the potential sales window).

BWV is fairly large but OTOH, the total points for all 3 resorts is currently a little less than 10 million points. Even if they increase the point charts by 20%-25%, the 3 resorts combined will be smaller than SSR and with better locations to sell. I don't think Disney would have any trouble renting villas for cash in these 3 locations during the sales process.

The beach resorts are a complete non-issue.

Due to the trainwreck of the extension, OKW is kind of its own thing now. Will Disney try to finagle the units owned and shutter part of the resort? Maybe use their units for corporate purposes if they can't rent them? Try to sell 15 year memberships at a discounted rate? That will probably be interesting.

A lot can still happen in 20 years but re-selling the 3 expiring resorts in 2042 doesn't seem like that big of an issue when you break down the numbers.

The problem DVC has with renting rooms at these 3 deluxe resorts is. That the 3 resorts Disney already has rooms to rent there. At WL, the took a wing and turned into DVC. Why, because they were not renting all the rooms. Now it is CCV, rooms are now highly sought after by owners. Sure there might be some times Disney could rent some of those rooms. I hope DVC doesn’t do a refurbishment of those rooms that owners pay for within the last 5 years of ownership.

 

[tpclady]

Thanks for all your answers. I want to be able to go with my grand babies (when I get them) which is why I’m asking.
I also don’t think I can get hubs on board with buying a new contract for $200 a point.

 

[Spark65]

and owners may be given a special discount to buy into the new resorts.

I highly doubt Disney will give anyone a special discount for anything.

 

[Yinn]

No, and most believe it won’t happen. However, if any resort was going to one Or something different done, it’s BRV.

I speculate that what will happen is those rooms will be added to CCV and then sold that way so everything ends at the same time.

They may give current owners first chance but I can not see it being an inexpensive option.

A extension requires the ground lease to be extended which, once done, applies to all owners and that is why OKW has been defined as a failure.

That would be very interesting. If they did that, the layouts of BRV and CCV are pretty different. I wonder if they would either refurbished to match, or if they would class them differently and have different points.

Just thinking about the studio BRV sleeping 5 vs studio CCV sleeping 4.