Bush's "conversation" w/troops staged

[MizBlu]

BTW, Powell's former deputy has gone public with his criticism of former Sec. St. Powell for caving and giving credibility to those now exposed in error

Oh no, say it ain't so.

Another rat deserts the sinking ship.

Hark, what's that I hear in the background?

Sounds like new talking points.............pssst, criminalization of politics...........buzz phrase of the day........pass it on.

 

[richiebaseball]

You might want to pick up a paper from time to time, your "We" is getting smaller and smaller by the minute:


Oct. 17, 2005

Bush approval hits 39%, lowest of his presidency
By Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — President Bush's job approval rating has slipped to 39%, the lowest measure of his presidency, according to a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll.
At the same time, job approval for Congress, which has a Republican majority, has fallen to 29%. That is its lowest level since 1994, the year Democrats lost control of the Senate and House of Representatives for the first time in 40 years.

The poll showed that 68% of Americans say they are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country. That is the most negative assessment in nearly a decade.

You guys are like kids waiting for Christmas morning. Unfortunately for you, Christmas morning is a little over three years away.

 

[MizBlu]

You guys are like kids waiting for Christmas morning. Unfortunately for you, Christmas morning is a little over three years away.

Actually, Christmas is coming early this year.............Delay's mug shot tomorrow.

 

[richiebaseball]

Actually, Christmas is coming early this year.............Delay's mug shot tomorrow.

That is this week isn't it.

Tell me, if that's Christmas and if Delay beats it, will it feel like finding that extra pretty present hidden in the closet and then finding that it's actually for someone else?

Richard

 

[MizBlu]

That is this week isn't it.

Tell me, if that's Christmas and if Delay beats it, will it feel like finding that extra pretty present hidden in the closet and then finding that it's actually for someone else?

Richard

Maybe, but with a scumbag like Delay, there's always something on the horizon.

 

[richiebaseball]

You might want to pick up a paper from time to time, your "We" is getting smaller and smaller by the minute:


Oct. 17, 2005

Bush approval hits 39%, lowest of his presidency
By Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — President Bush's job approval rating has slipped to 39%, the lowest measure of his presidency, according to a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll.
At the same time, job approval for Congress, which has a Republican majority, has fallen to 29%. That is its lowest level since 1994, the year Democrats lost control of the Senate and House of Representatives for the first time in 40 years.

The poll showed that 68% of Americans say they are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country. That is the most negative assessment in nearly a decade.

Also in that article:

Every president since 1963 has had approval ratings at one time or another that were lower than Bush's current rating. Those ratings include Lyndon Johnson's 35%, Richard Nixon's 24%, Gerald Ford's 37%, Jimmy Carter's 28%,
Ronald Reagan's 35%, the elder George Bush's 29% and Bill Clinton's 37%.

So at what point during the Clinton administration did you feel you were just drinking the koolaid? I need a benchmark.

 

[Teejay32]

BTW, Powell's former deputy has gone public with his criticism of former Sec. St. Powell for caving and giving credibility to those now exposed in error

I'm glad you brought it up. Richard Armitage:

"Finally, and perhaps most important, in both Germany and Japan's case there were people who suffered during the war and who stayed in the country. They experienced the horror and were victims themselves and afterwards were prepared to take up the cudgels on behalf of democracy. In Iraq, the political class I've seen are people who were part of the diaspora.

"And here's another thing. The humane way in which the coalition fought the war actually has led to a situation where it is more difficult to get people to come together, not less. In Germany and Japan, the population was exhausted and deeply shocked by what had happened, but in Iraq it's been the opposite."

In essence, Armitage is saying that you can . . . impose a radically new system of government on a people (only) if they're on their knees. He emphasises the point by saying "the US is dealing with an Iraqi population that is un-shocked and un-awed".

He's all yours now! Congratulations.

 

[sodaseller]

I'm glad you brought it up. Richard Armitage:



He's all yours now! Congratulations.

Not talking about Armitage:

Link

In a scathing attack on the record of President George W. Bush, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January, said: “What I saw was a cabal between the vice-president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.

“Now it is paying the consequences of making those decisions in secret, but far more telling to me is America is paying the consequences.”

Mr Wilkerson said his decision to go public had led to a personal falling out with Mr Powell, whom he served for 16 years at the Pentagon and the State Department.

“He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."

That's the excerpt, here's the truncated transcript, in which he mentions who you though the reference was to - http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c925a686-40f4-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html

And so it’s not too difficult to make decisions in this, what I call Oval Office cabal, and decisions often that are the opposite of what you thought were made in the formal process. Now, let’s get back to Dr. [inaudible]. For so long I said, yeah, Rich, you’re right. Rich being Under Secretary of State Richard [inaudible].

Unfortunately, that's where the partial transcript ends

Here's where he suggest that Powell, who he admire, capitulated too easily, or perhaps was too loyal for his own or the nations' good

And I wish, I wish I had been able to help George Packer write that book. In some places I could have given him a hell of a lot more specifics than he’s got. But if you want to read how the Cheney Rumsfeld cabal flummoxed the process, read that book. And, of course, there are other names in there, Under Secretary of Defense Douglas [inaudible], whom most of you probably know Tommy Frank said was stupidest blankety blank man in the world. He was. Let me testify to that. He was. Seldom in my life have I met a dumber man.

And yet, and yet, after the Secretary of State agrees to a $400 billion department, rather than a $30 billion department, having control, at least in the immediate post-war period in Iraq, this man is put in charge. Not only is he put in charge, he is given carte blanche to tell the State Department to go screw themselves in a closet somewhere. That’s not making excuses for the State Department.

And I'd take Armitage, a solid thinker, if he were really "ours"., which I don't think he is, based upon all my reading. He's more rational than the team that elected to attack, to be sure, but that doesn't make him disloyal, just thoughtful. Try a bit more sophistication in thought in either event, in reading comments

 

[Teejay32]

You could try posting more sophisticated published comments; I don't know him or what he's focusing his ire on. Define his beaurocracy, explain why you think calling the former SoS "the world's most loyal soldier" is a complimentary.

According to the article I quoted, Armitage is now "freed from the straightjacket of office" and spouting this stuff, making him more of a non-thinker, yes? Any ideas he might have sold the public about Iran, for example, while collecting a government paycheck should probably be reviewed. Soon.

 

[What the Heck]

If your idea of respect is for those who believe this war was a mistake just to shut up.....you are disrespecting our constitution and bill of rights.

Have you even for one moment thought that many of Saddam's people just "shut up" when the knew in their hearts the government was going in the wrong direction? They shut up and look what happened. Shame on you for insinuating free speech is disrespectful to our soldiers.

Have you thought that learning from errors is a good thing? I happen to think this war was one big error. If I accept the premise that it was a just war - right time right place ===I still think major errors occured. Many innnocent lives were lost (US and Iraqi) because of lack of an exit strategy and lack of a bigger first push. I am saying it is WRONG because I hope that the next time we NEED to go to war we will save countless lives by remembering our errors.

Your disrespect for my freedom of speech is more harmful to the soldiers than my beliefs could ever be.

Yet calling her malicious isn't the same as disrespecting her freedom of speech? We are here to debate opinions, not to put down others for their opinion. It is a very common tactic from both sides to scream "Bobs your uncle" (love that phrase, not sure where I got it from) to get a rise from the other side. To claim disrespect may be true, but it is very ironic when you are participating in the exact same thing.

 

[yeartolate]

Yet calling her malicious isn't the same as disrespecting her freedom of speech? We are here to debate opinions, not to put down others for their opinion. It is a very common tactic from both sides to scream "Bobs your uncle" (love that phrase, not sure where I got it from) to get a rise from the other side. To claim disrespect may be true, but it is very ironic when you are participating in the exact same thing.

Although I clearly see your point, I get the distinct "feeling" that TnKrBeLlA012 would like to put an end to Americans vocalizing their views against the war, where as I may not like what she says, but I have no desire for her or anybody to stop vocalizing their opinions.

 

[cardaway]

Yet calling her malicious isn't the same as disrespecting her freedom of speech? We are here to debate opinions, not to put down others for their opinion. It is a very common tactic from both sides to scream "Bobs your uncle" (love that phrase, not sure where I got it from) to get a rise from the other side. To claim disrespect may be true, but it is very ironic when you are participating in the exact same thing.

She likened others to the enemy for simply having a different opinion. The reaction to that was appropriate.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Although I clearly see your point, I get the distinct "feeling" that TnKrBeLlA012 would like to put an end to Americans vocalizing their views against the war, where as I may not like what she says, but I have no desire for her or anybody to stop vocalizing their opinions.

Let me just make something clear. Please don't take what I say and change it to fit your own argument. Freedom of speech is everyones right. I get that. We fought wars to have that right. I understand that. I'm not asking anyone to give up their right of free speech. I just think more can be accomplished for the soldiers and their families by not continually critizing a war that has already happened and hopefully will be coming to a positive end. We cannot at this point change what has happened. What good does it do to keep dwelling on it? It sure does nothing for the soldiers who have given their lives for this war.

 

[MizBlu]

Let me just make something clear. Please don't take what I say and change it to fit your own argument. Freedom of speech is everyones right. I get that. We fought wars to have that right. I understand that. I'm not asking anyone to give up their right of free speech. I just think more can be accomplished for the soldiers and their families by not continually critizing a war that has already happened and hopefully will be coming to a positive end. We cannot at this point change what has happened. What good does it do to keep dwelling on it? It sure does nothing for the soldiers who have given their lives for this war.

Well, here's your chance to shine. What's your solution to the mess in Iraq? Zip your lip and stay the course? More can be accomplished? Like what? Do you think keeping your mouth shut is going to improve veteran's health care? Do you think keeping your mouth shut is going to help the soldier who's on his 3rd deployment and who has a wife and 3 kids and that wife is barely holding on?

Don't dwell? Of course, there's nothing more you Bush apologists want than for people to forget how we got into this mess. You hope it will come to a positive end? Don't we all or do you doubt that to?

Here's what keeping your mouth shut is going to get you: more dead, more wounded, more money spent, etc. That's what staying the course means.

We can't what change what happened. Correction, we can't change what people like you let happen. People like me have been against this war from the beginning and we were right and you were wrong. And the families, friends, and loved ones of the nearly 2000 dead and nearly 14000 wounded have had to live with the consequences of the unquestioning support for Bush and his cronies.

You can keep your mouth shut. I won't because I love my country too much.

 

[yeartolate]

Let me just make something clear. Please don't take what I say and change it to fit your own argument. Freedom of speech is everyones right. I get that. We fought wars to have that right. I understand that. I'm not asking anyone to give up their right of free speech. I just think more can be accomplished for the soldiers and their families by not continually critizing a war that has already happened and hopefully will be coming to a positive end. We cannot at this point change what has happened. What good does it do to keep dwelling on it? It sure does nothing for the soldiers who have given their lives for this war.

Because we have to learn from our mistakes. Blind patriotism is useless. The critical errors we made cost several thousand of American lives and the tens of thounsands of innocent Iraqi lives. We have lost much of the support and trust of our allies.

Many atrocities in this world occured becasue citizens sat blindly by. Just think of the atrocities that would have been commited in Iraq by the US if the pictures hadn't have leaked out and people protested. Sit back and take it ? No I don't think so.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Well, here's your chance to shine. What's your solution to the mess in Iraq? Zip your lip and stay the course? More can be accomplished? Like what? Do you think keeping your mouth shut is going to improve veteran's health care? Do you think keeping your mouth shut is going to help the soldier who's on his 3rd deployment and who has a wife and 3 kids and that wife is barely holding on?

Don't dwell? Of course, there's nothing more you Bush apologists want than for people to forget how we got into this mess. You hope it will come to a positive end? Don't we all or do you doubt that to?

Here's what keeping your mouth shut is going to get you: more dead, more wounded, more money spent, etc. That's what staying the course means.

We can't what change what happened. Correction, we can't change what people like you let happen. People like me have been against this war from the beginning and we were right and you were wrong. And the families, friends, and loved ones of the nearly 2000 dead and nearly 14000 wounded have had to live with the consequences of the unquestioning support for Bush and his cronies.

You can keep your mouth shut. I won't because I love my country too much.

I just want to say one thing to you. I think you need to calm down. We are posting on a DISNEY WEBSITE. We are not going to solve the worlds problems here. I think your pure hatred of Bush is very evident. If you want to prove a point I think you could do it in a less hostile manner. I also think you don't have all ThAnswr's. This war was not just supported by,"us" Did Democrats also vote to invade Iraq? Did Hillary vote for the invasion of Iraq? Before we put all the blame on Bush I think you will find alot of other hands in the pot. Any "information" Bush used to justify conquering Iraq he inherited from Clinton. One last question I thought about. You do seem to know so much. Why is it that Clinton Bombed more countries than any other peacetime President? I wonder if any innocent lives were lost? What about that factory in Sudan? Any lives lost there? Bush and his cronies have alot of friends.

 

[MizBlu]

I just want to say one thing to you. I think you need to calm down. We are posting on a DISNEY WEBSITE. We are not going to solve the worlds problems here. I think your pure hatred of Bush is very effident. If you want to prove a point I think you could do it in a less hostile manner. I also think you don't have all ThAnswr's. This war was not just supported by US. Did Democrats also vote to invade Iraq? Did Hillary vote for the invasion of Iraq? Before we put all the blame on Bush I think you will find alot of other hands in the pot. Any "information" Bush used to justify conquering Iraq he inherited from Clinton. One last question I thought about. You do seem to know so much. Why is it that Clinton Bombed more countries than any other peacetime President? I wonder if any innocent lives were lost? What about that factory in Sudan? Any lives lost there? Bush and his cronies have alot of friends.

*****

 

[LoraJ]

Somebody help me.

 

[yeartolate]

This war was not just supported by US. Did Democrats also vote to invade Iraq? Did Hillary vote for the invasion of Iraq? Before we put all the blame on Bush I think you will find alot of other hands in the pot. Any "information" Bush used to justify conquering Iraq he inherited from Clinton.

If you listen, part of the anger is that the information given for justification of the---- NEED TO GO TO WAR NOW--- was based on innacurate and massaged intelligence. People who knew better were silenced or not listened to. By the way -- I am proud of my Representitive - Barbara Lee - who was the lone dissenter.

Now as for blaming the need for war, please let us not forget all the lovely citizens past administrations supported.......Saddam and Osama Bin Laden to name a few. Please, when you are blaming...be accurate and go back far enough. This is what I mean by learning from our mistakes. Our financial and military support of Osama Bin Laden gave him more means to become the successfull Islamic Extremist he is today. Are we creating any new Osama Bin Ladens by our support today? I don't know...but we should be careful. We should question and let our government know we are not happy!

 

[Planogirl]

*****

New teeth?

There's a great saying and I don't know if anyone has used it yet.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

by George Santayana

If we don't take a long hard look at these breakdowns in intelligence and simple logic, then what's next? We need to continue to improve and not backslide as some seem to want.