Buses and people on scooters...

[maxiesmom]

I say get in line and wait like everyone else. Just because you have trouble walking dosen't mean you should have trouble waiting in line. Since when does any dissability give you preference or special treatment. I was always taught that everyone is equal weather they have two arms or one, two legs or none. I say get in line and be a customer like everyone else. If you have to wait to travel with your family, so be it, WAIT, just like the rest of us who travel in large groups or with our families. Disabillities or inabillites, remember, you are on vacation to enjoy yourself.

Umm, so you would be ok with the ECV smashing your toes as they are loaded onto the bus? And you would be fine with the bruised ankles you would get as they tried to move around you on the bus? It is simply not safe for the rest of the guests for the ECVs to be loaded after everyone else.

If you want equal bus treatement with those on ECVs, then the bus would hold exactly 2 able bodied people. Because that is how many ECVs can fit on a Disney bus. Two. Still think people in ECVs have anything remotly like equal treatment at Disney?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You have me rolling with laughter in Brooklyn....Mouse House Mama....you are tooooooo funny.....

....water gun......

I have never laughed outloud at the Disboards in my life.......until today!!!

Glad I could make you smile!
Us Lawng Islandas are pretty funny people ya know!

 

[Fletchmonger]

I can respect your view of this issue, however, communication is key. I would be happy to wait for someone in a wheel chair to board a bus. Any Disney traveler understands. But special treatment given is not right. I can't tell you how many times a bus has come and me and my group of travelers had to wait for another bus in order to travel together, especially after fireworks at night when the park closes. Being on a scooter does not change a thing. Be like everyone else, be patient and wait jsut like me or any Vacationer at Disney.

 

[Stacerita]

I just wanted to get other people's opinions regarding people on scooters and the Disney transportation buses.
I remember being at Disney a couple of years ago and waiting in the bus line at the end of our day at MK. The lineup was huge and people were hot and tired. The lineup was so long that it probably was about 3 busloads.
About 1 minute before the bus arrived, a couple, each on scooter, showed up at the "disabled" gate. Of course the driver got off the bus and then had to go through the whole routine of getting them on the bus and secured in positon before he allowed the able bodied passengers on.
Just because they ride on a scooter they get ahead of everyone else?
How is that justifiable? We have to stand in line after day on walking and being in the hot sun while they have been sitting down.....why shouldn't they have to wait like the rest of us?
Am I wrong to feel this way?

Yes and no. Be thankful you are able to stand in line and wait for the bus. But there is no telling that they won't have to wait longer than you if a full bus comes by. Im sure everyone has those moments where they are a bit peeved by someone seeming like they are getting special treatment, but I would assure you, they are not. They are just getting treatment to make sure all are safe. I personally know I wouldn't want to trade places with someone with mobility issues.

 

[SherylWrites]

especially after a long hot day in the parks, you just want to get back to your room and relax. So it does "seem" unfair when guests in scooters and wheelchairs get on the busses first.
That being said, it doesn't make it right to feel that way. And I'm not asking you to feel sorry for those people, just take into account the challenges they face that you don't.
Even getting all of that extra attention of having a driver get you in, buckled in, if you're a shy person, it's even worse!
My husband used to feel that way to some extent. And last year at Disney, he made mention of how many folks were in scooters that were probably just too lazy to do all the walking.
This year, he was diagnosed with osteo-arthritis and degenerative disc disease. He's in constant pain and uses a cane when we have to go shopping. If he were to go to WDW with us this year, he'd be the one in the scooter. To look at him, you'd think he was perfectly healthy. His disability is on the inside, out of view and open for speculation and judgement.
He'd be pretty happy to be able to walk up on that bus after a day of MK, but it's not possible.
Be grateful you have the ability to wait, to stand and to have patience. So many people do not. And it's up to those that do, to teach those that don't.

 

[SueM in MN]

I say get in line and wait like everyone else. Just because you have trouble walking dosen't mean you should have trouble waiting in line. Since when does any dissability give you preference or special treatment. I was always taught that everyone is equal weather they have two arms or one, two legs or none. I say get in line and be a customer like everyone else. If you have to wait to travel with your family, so be it, WAIT, just like the rest of us who travel in large groups or with our families. Disabillities or inabillites, remember, you are on vacation to enjoy yourself.

Having people with wheelchairs or ECVs load onto the bus first is not preferential treatment or special treatment. It is the way that makes the most sense as far as time and safety is concerned.

If everyone waited in line with wheelchairs and ECVs it would be fair if they had an equal chance of getting onto the bus, compared to the people who are waiting in line with them. But, they don't.
The only way to get an equal chance to get on from the same line would be if wheelchairs and ECVs could be loaded onto the bus from the front door and any seat could be transformed for use with wheelchairs/ECVs. That is not how the buses are set up though. Guests with wheelchairs have to load from the back door and there are only 2 possible spots they can use in the whole bus.

Let's just guess that a bus can hold 60 people, 40 sitting and 20 standing. If there are 60 people waiting there, they will all be able to get onto the bus. Person 40 in line will get a seat the same as the first person in line. And, persons 41-60 won't get a seat, but they will get on the bus.

Now, imagine that person 40 has a wheelchair or ECV.
That person can only get onto the bus if the lift or ramp are working
and if the tiedowns are in working condition
and if there is enough room to manouver into the 2 spots for wheelchairs/ECVs that are the maximum the bus can hold. There is plenty of room left on the bus - 20 more people can get on, but there may not be enough room for the person with the ECV/wheelchair.
With a lot of people already on the bus, people will have to move and some may have to get off temporarily so that the person with the wheelchair can be loaded. That would take quite a bit longer than just loading the wheelchair in the beginning would. And, people who are tired and have just sat down will be even more inconvenienced than if the wheelchair/ECV had been loaded right away.

What if WDW introduced new buses that had spots to stow strollers inside the bus.
And, what if not all buses had those spots, and the buses that did have them had room for 2 strollers.
And, what if the new rule was that only 2 strollers could be brought onto the bus; once there were 2 strollers, no other strollers could be loaded.
No matter how much room was left on the bus.
And if the bus did not have the special stroller spots, no strollers could be loaded.
That would put people using strollers in the same spot as people who use wheelchairs/ECVs. Most people using strollers would think that was ridiculous, but that is what people using wheelchairs and ECVs have to put up with each time they ride the bus.

 

[Chuck S]

I can respect your view of this issue, however, communication is key. I would be happy to wait for someone in a wheel chair to board a bus. Any Disney traveler understands. But special treatment given is not right. I can't tell you how many times a bus has come and me and my group of travelers had to wait for another bus in order to travel together, especially after fireworks at night when the park closes. Being on a scooter does not change a thing. Be like everyone else, be patient and wait jsut like me or any Vacationer at Disney.

Actually, being on a scooter or in a wheelchair does change things. A lot.

As another poster said, to be truly equal, then each bus should only accommodate 2 passengers, ambulatory or not, since they can only accommodate two chairs or ECVs.

It is for the safety of all that non-ambulatory guests are loaded first. Imagine if a wheelchair was, oh, 35th in line. Busses accommodate more than 35 people. How is that chair going to safely load? Are people who just entered and took a seat on the jump seats now going to willingly move, as required by ADA law, to accommodate the ECVs? I'd bet we'd hear even more complaints. If someone is bumped by the ECV while loading, more complaints.

Really, pre-boarding the ECVs and their parties makes the most sense, and takes the least amount of time. The alternatives are both time consuming and/or expensive, like running an additional bus in every loop just for non-ambulatory guests and their parties.

 

[bavaria]

Coming from a different culture but spending a good part of each year in America, I have never understood the theory that people using an ECV must be 'cheating'. It does seem to be rather unique to WDW and even somehow to this website.

Consider the fact that people using an ECV at a bus stop are most likely using that ECV for a week, or they brought it with them. They most likely didn't rent in the park for the day if they are going back to their resort with the ECV. Renting an ECV is expensive, buying one even moreso.

We can all agree I believe that driving an ECV does not appear to be that easy, either. Then add the stares, mutters, comments, and website postings, and I cannot fathom how challenging it must be for that person.

Then add in their physical reasons for using an ECV - the pain that they must feel in order to require an assistive device.

It is certainly not 'fun' for them. I cannot believe that over and over there are debates about how ECV users are getting 'perks' and 'benefits'.

For those of you who say that 'they should wait their turn', they DO wait. They wait, and wait, and wait. I once waited over an hour with someone for the Safari ride when the standby line was 10 minutes, because the vehicles which can accommodate wheelchair users are not every vehicle.

The time that they ride up and get on the bus right away may be the one time during their trip that it happened (see Phorse's post for instance) It may be the one time that day that they didn't have to wait two, three, four or more times as long as other guests to experience an attraction. And every time this argument arises, people talk about the ECV users have large parties. I know many, many ECV users who travel alone, or have three or less in their party. The large parties are the exception - they may be more obvious due to the size, but are certainly not the norm.

It may be time to step back and stop being jealous of what others have, and consider instead what they don't have. I hope that I am never in a position to be jealous of someone requiring assistance, or feel the need to put them in their place for doing so.

 

[bavaria]

Really, pre-boarding the ECVs and their parties makes the most sense, and takes the least amount of time. The alternatives are both time consuming and/or expensive, like running an additional bus in every loop just for non-ambulatory guests and their parties.

HKDL does it differently, because the ADA of course does not apply. I actually took photos for a member of this website, because of this frequent argument.

There the resort buses are coach style, like the ME busses. But like most busses in China there are 3 seats on one side where in America there would only be 2. Many of us would not fit in those seats, I can assure you. Strollers cannot be boarded and are stored underneath in the luggage bay.

When a guest requiring assistance arrives at the bus queue area, they step or roll into the designated wheelchair zone (marked with tiles on the ground) Immediately a CM escorts them to the smaller accessible bus which always seems to be waiting, and they and their party are boarded and transported.

This may sound like an 'ideal' solution, but it wouldn't work at WDW for many reasons. It is not ADA compliant. And as Chuck points out, it is expensive as it requires more busses and more drivers. Guests pay for that expense.

So that too is not an ideal, just a different way of handling the situation. Somehow I suspect that if that option were in place in WDW, or if some WDW guests went to HKDL, they would cry foul that those guests who boarded the other bus received special treatment or benefits.

There is no easy solution, but the one WDW has in place is the best option at the moment for an American Disney park.

 

[bavaria]

And last year at Disney, he made mention of how many folks were in scooters that were probably just too lazy to do all the walking

First, my apologies to MrSheryl for only taking part of your post and highlighting that part...

Have any of you considered that there are a larger number of ECV/wheelchair guests at WDW BECAUSE WDW is an 'easy' vacation for them? It is easy in the sense that WDW accommodates so many people's needs, making it an enjoyable holiday for them.

I have been extra cranky for the last several weeks because on day one of recent holiday I fell and reinjured myself. I had to completely change all my plans and my very active holiday became very different. I don't always handle my physical challenges with grace, and I will admit that I did my best to enjoy my holiday but am still a little disappointed that I couldn't do the active parts of it that I had imagined. (and it was planned to be a far more active holiday than a trip to WDW would be, with a lot more walking and climbing)

Sue once commented on the lack of access at DLRP; on my first visits I rarely saw wheelchair users. Since that time, DLRP has listened to recommendations and the laws have changed, and now on each visit I see more and more wheelchair users. Those with certain needs in Europe have discovered that they can navigate DLRP far more easily than other places, and are now coming to enjoy DLRP in greater numbers.

That doesn't mean that the Europeans are becoming fat and lazy; it does mean that people who may not have been able to have such a holiday in past can finally do so.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Can someone please tell me why it isn't right to feel any certain way? Really? You might think someone is wrong but that doesn't mean that it isn't right for them to feel a certain way. People can feel anyway they want. It is nobody's business to decide that for them.
I can see both sides of this issue. I do think everyone should wait in line and wait their turn, however there doesn't seem to be a way for that to happen. So WDW came up with their plan and it seems to work for them.

I don't think it is wrong to feel annoyed when I have waited for 3 buses to pass with 4 small kids so they can get a seat and someone rolls up with their family, gets right on and now I have to wait for bus#4. It doesn't make me ungrateful that I am able to stand etc. It makes me tired of standing there waiting! Am I not allowed to be tired?

I am not begrudging the ECV user but I do wish there was a better setup. I have rarely seen an ECV user have to wait for a bus. The only time was when 4 of them rolled up at once. Then it was 2 on each bus. I know because I was standing there waiting. I know it is not a walk in the park to use an ECV and I am always grateful that I do not need one. I just wish the bus setup was a bit better sometimes. I have no great suggestions about it as really, what else can they do? So please know that the angst isn't at the ECV user, but rather at the situation.

 

[bavaria]

So please know that the angst isn't at the ECV user, but rather at the situation.

And I am quite certain that is the case for you, and many others.

But please understand that there have been some very unpleasant posts and threads here over the years. Some have been deleted very quickly but others still live on in search, or in our memories.

Threads such as 'overweight people on ECVs shouldn't eat junk food'. Or comments that all people needing wheelchairs or ECVs should be banned from the parks, and the poster clarifying that they were serious. I am certain that the moderators here have seen far more than I, but those are just a few that stand out to me.

Those comments hurt, and many of us don't forget them. I have never used an ECV and I am very active, but it hurts me to see people I care about spoken to in such a fashion. And I can assure you that those are not just words on a message board; they are also spoken aloud time and time again in 'real life' at WDW. Just read for awhile over on the DisABILITIES board and you will see that not everyone is pleasant while at WDW.

Nobody can tell someone how to feel, but perhaps they can give some insight as to what the other person is experiencing.

 

[honugirl]

For everyone who feels like the OP, may I suggest a few things

First please read this thread written by a long time, reasonable poster who does not appear to get upset very often. It may give you some insight into the 'perks' of using an ECV/wheelchair

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1954010&referrerid=93883

Then borrow a cane, or a sling, and try and use them for even just 10 minutes on a hot day. You'll learn quickly that it is frustrating, and even painful, to use them. Now imagine using one every day. Imagine using one while people talk about you, or stare, or post about you on websites.

Then go visit the DisABILITIES board here. Read some of the threads. There are wonderful people there who provide information and support, most while managing their own challenges. They handle themselves with grace and I have a great deal of respect for them.

Threads like this were one of the reasons why I retired from this website. I do lurk every so often, and decided to post today in hopes that I can convince even one reader to be a little bit more understanding of others. Too often here we seem to think of ourselves and how others impacted us, but we fail to consider others and how we impact them.

Bavaria, thanks for sticking up for those of us who need ECV's! It so rarely happens that it's such a nice treat.

Firstly, my hats off to anyone that needs to use an ECV. I did however notice on our last trip plenty of people at disney that could cleary walk use these. Now I don't know their whole backgrounds so I can't say whether they truly need them or not, but I think they should be used by people that actually need them not people that simply don't want to walk. I get flashbacks to the movie WALL E.

Looks can be deceiving. Many of us that park our scooters do so because it's hard to sit all day and it's good for us to walk when we can. I park my scooter in each area so that I can enjoy my time with my friends. Imagine if someone in your family was at butt level the whole day and had to focus only on where they were going. It's not like I can look at the decorations or a parade or window shop while I'm driving. I also can't carry on a conversation with my friends. But, I fatigue easily so getting from one area to another is virtually impossible. I have to conserve energy where I can. At this point if I went to MK, I'd make it to one or two rides and have to go back to the hotel and rest without one.

It's also extremely embarrassing to have to use the alternate entrances because of all the stares and looks I get. I will put myself through heck to avoid that. So I will wear myself out walking from attraction to attraction so that everyone else doesn't think I'm cutting or getting preferential treatment.

I also see and do less on an ECV than I used to when I could walk. Imagine how much extra time it takes out of my day to have to park, get off, ride the ride, get back on, wait for everyone to get out of my way, drive to the next ride and repeat. How much extra time do I spend trying to fight the crowds because people don't see me and don't let me through to catch up to my party.

No one also knows what I have to do at the end of the night. Because I want to avoid the stress and hassle of dealing with the able bodied folks at the bus stop, I have to sit in an empty park for an hour or more before I will even attempt to roll up to the bus stop. I will literally wait for no one to be there before I attempt to get on. So while you're back at the hotel snug in bed, I'm just finally leaving the parks.

There are no extra perks to using an ECV. It's merely a tool so that I can enjoy the parks just like everyone else.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Seriously, people, the REAL point here is that BUSSES SUCK!!!

Yes, I'll say it. Walter Elias Disney would turn in his grave if he knew his guests were being loaded like cattle onto crowded, smelly, inefficient busses.

Nobody on this thread has yet posted about how annoyed they were with an ECV on the Monorail. Why? Because the Monorail is genius, it can fit 400 people at a time, ECV's included, all together!

We have not taken a bus in Disney for a while, and every now and then when my DH will persuade me to take a bus and we end up getting thrown up on, trodden on, or losing 2 hours waiting, I say "How Many Times Do We Have To Do Busses?"

We drive down and we call our Car The Mickey Express, because we're way, way faster than the busses getting in and out of the parks .

The ECV's are a symptom of a system that is broken, not a cause...

 

[kydisneyfans]

Another angle to take here is those that are "able bodied" but have other health issues to contend with. I have Crohn's and mild arthritis, but do not need an ECV. Given the Crohn's, I need ready access to restrooms. When I get to a bus stop, I need to have an idea how long it will take to load and unload. If I guess 3 bus loads ahead of me, then several families of 12 with 1 ECV rider comes along and load first, that 3 bus loads suddenly has turned to 5 and a potential problem develops.

After being forced to stand on a bus keeled over with cramps from waiting in line during this exact scenerio several years ago, my family now drives to each park. I cannot afford to take that chance again.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Here is something that I thought about and wanted to throw it out there.

When anyone comes on this boards talking about bringing a stroller for their 8 year old they are blasted. They are told to either- walk everyday until the trip to get the kid up to speed, take it slow on the trip with frequent breaks, take time to go back to their room, resign yourself to go at the pace of the child and don't expect to see it all but just take a leisurely trip, or any other myriad of suggestions.
Now for those people who use an ECV because they can't walk long distances wouldn't the same advice apply? Why not take a slow moving trip? Why not take frequent breaks? Why not take an afternoon break at the resort?
Why is that advice only good for a child but not an adult?

Now, I have said earlier that I do not begrudge anyone ECV or wheelchair use and if you have health problems you do what you have to. I am just not buying that every person on an ECV couldn't walk the parks. Maybe they couldn't see everything but then again neither would a family with small children. I am not picking on anyone who has genuine health problems. I am just putting another side to this out there. People are quick to flame parents of older children in strollers. Why are adults impervious to that? Just a thought.

 

[livndisney]

Here is something that I thought about and wanted to throw it out there.

When anyone comes on this boards talking about bringing a stroller for their 8 year old they are blasted. They are told to either- walk everyday until the trip to get the kid up to speed, take it slow on the trip with frequent breaks, take time to go back to their room, resign yourself to go at the pace of the child and don't expect to see it all but just take a leisurely trip, or any other myriad of suggestions.
Now for those people who use an ECV because they can't walk long distances wouldn't the same advice apply? Why not take a slow moving trip? Why not take frequent breaks? Why not take an afternoon break at the resort?
Why is that advice only good for a child but not an adult?

Now, I have said earlier that I do not begrudge anyone ECV or wheelchair use and if you have health problems you do what you have to. I am just not buying that every person on an ECV couldn't walk the parks. Maybe they couldn't see everything but then again neither would a family with small children. I am not picking on anyone who has genuine health problems. I am just putting another side to this out there. People are quick to flame parents of older children in strollers. Why are adults impervious to that? Just a thought.

My guess would be, the 8 year old does not have a medical condition and the adult needing the ECV does.

Like another person said- the busses suck! If you don't like Disney's policy tell Disney! If you feel the person in the ECV is being "given" something more than you by boarding the bus first, write to Disney INSIST they create a bus that holds more than 2 ECVS (to level the playing field). Make them create a bus that ONLY holds 2 "able body" people and the rest ECV's. That is equal right?

 

[curly-love]

I just wanted to get other people's opinions regarding people on scooters and the Disney transportation buses.
I remember being at Disney a couple of years ago and waiting in the bus line at the end of our day at MK. The lineup was huge and people were hot and tired. The lineup was so long that it probably was about 3 busloads.
About 1 minute before the bus arrived, a couple, each on scooter, showed up at the "disabled" gate. Of course the driver got off the bus and then had to go through the whole routine of getting them on the bus and secured in positon before he allowed the able bodied passengers on.
Just because they ride on a scooter they get ahead of everyone else?
How is that justifiable? We have to stand in line after day on walking and being in the hot sun while they have been sitting down.....why shouldn't they have to wait like the rest of us?
Am I wrong to feel this way?

i agree when you are wheelchair or scooter at disney you get anything when you want it you get special seating at the shows, so you can come late and still have a seat. if normal people come late they get stuck in wherever they will fit. I always tell my family i want to go to disney for a day in a wheelchair.

 

[RMAMom]

I never understood why when a family with an ECV rider approaches a bus stop the family doesn't get in line. When the family gets to the front of the line and you know they will board the next bus the bus driver can load the EVC first and then everyone boards.

I am sure that the bus driver can look at a line and know whether a person is close enough to the front of the line to make it on. If the driver simply got off and asked the person on the EVC where their family was in line they could probably make that determination fairly accurately.

It seems to me that this would stop a lot of the bad feelings on both sides of this topic.

 

[Chuck S]

I always tell my family i want to go to disney for a day in a wheelchair.

I think that is an excellent idea. Spend a day, a full day, in a wheelchair at Disney. Don't ever transfer to a non-wheelchair seat. Don't park the chair and walk onto a ride or restaurant or counter service diner.

Yes, spend a day in a wheelchair. A wonderful idea.