Buses and people on scooters...

[Candikayne]

I think everyone is missing the point. A person with a legitimate disabillity deserves some extra help, especially if traveling with others with affliction or the elderly, and yes I believe the designers should take some consideration while constructing or renovating attrations.

However, if your are over weight, obese, lazy, each cheek hangs over the seat of the scooter, abused smoking with the oxygen tank attached, never took care of yourself, don't exercise or just plain cant put down the snickers bar..............
BACK OF THE LINE!

Thank you and have a Disney Day!

If the shoe fits.....wear it!!!
You should not be offended if you actually neeeeed the ECV!
These posts are directed at the group above!!

 

[Candikayne]

Thank you Mouse House Momma.

Thank you both!

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

i agree when you are wheelchair or scooter at disney you get anything when you want it you get special seating at the shows, so you can come late and still have a seat. if normal people come late they get stuck in wherever they will fit. I always tell my family i want to go to disney for a day in a wheelchair.

Reminds me of that chinese proverb where the king was granted a wish, and he wished for his worst enemy's head in a box, and when he opened the box it was his own head...

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

But the expensive alternatives to the busses (monorails, people movers or light rail to all resorts) would boost ticket prices, likely to the point most folks couldn't afford the park admission or resort fees. Since the transportation system is not a pay as you go thing, where you are charged to ride, the $$ is budgeted into resort fees and park tickets. It would cost as much or more to fix the transportation system as it would to build a new park, with a similar increase in park admission and room prices.

When Eisner was president and CEO of Disney he pulled in a salary of $800 MILLION dollars per year.

Take 10% of that and build some more monorails. The parks are a *major* cash cow for Disney, how about Disney send a little of that largesse back to its guests instead of putting more Picassos in the CEO's office.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I think everyone is missing the point. A person with a legitimate disabillity deserves some extra help, especially if traveling with others with affliction or the elderly, and yes I believe the designers should take some consideration while constructing or renovating attrations.

However, if your are over weight, obese, lazy, each cheek hangs over the seat of the scooter, abused smoking with the oxygen tank attached, never took care of yourself, don't exercise or just plain cant put down the snickers bar..............
BACK OF THE LINE!

Thank you and have a Disney Day!

I think you're actually missing the bigger picture. If people are obese because they're lazy, don't exercise, etc, or long term smokers, then I see no need to "punish" them by sending them to the back of the line because they are, in fact, living their own punishment.

So fat you can't even walk, man, that for me would be hell. And it doesn't matter if you self-inflicted it or it was because of meds, it would still be hell. Sucked down so many cigarettes your lungs have turned to carbon and you have to think about every breath? Again, misery.

It makes no difference to me whether bad luck or bad behavior put you where you are; you're still suffering, and I won't be the one judging you.

I don't care why you're on an ECV or in a wheelchair, it's not my job to decide. It's not even my job to think about whether or not you "should" be in one.

So my family will not be giving you dirty looks or b*tch*ng about ECV's in Disney, we'll be the ones counting our blessings and enjoying the magic .

 

[yitbos96bb]

Give me a break. It was a joke.

I know it was a joke... as was my answer.

 

[Chuck S]

When Eisner was president and CEO of Disney he pulled in a salary of $800 MILLION dollars per year.

Take 10% of that and build some more monorails. The parks are a *major* cash cow for Disney, how about Disney send a little of that largesse back to its guests instead of putting more Picassos in the CEO's office.

At the estimated cost of of $8 million per mile*, it will take a lot more than $80 million to put in a workable system for connecting all the resorts to the theme parks. Figure at least a 25% increase in ticket prices, or a big increase in room costs.

*Estimated cost of Las Vegas system, WDWs swampy land would be higher. I've seen other estimates, even for elevated light rail in cities, of over $100 million per mile in initial building costs. San Diego estimates are $73 million per mile for elevated light rail. Even spread over 10 years, that is a major expense. Then add regular operating costs. And huge multi train boarding platforms for the parks.

 

[yitbos96bb]

When Eisner was president and CEO of Disney he pulled in a salary of $800 MILLION dollars per year.

Take 10% of that and build some more monorails. The parks are a *major* cash cow for Disney, how about Disney send a little of that largesse back to its guests instead of putting more Picassos in the CEO's office.

The Las Vegas Monorail cost around $90million per mile. So 10% of $800 million isn't going to get you much. Expanding the monorail all over property is a multi-billion dollar project.

Eisners salary was NOT 800 million. His bonuses pushed him there... many of which were in stock options. It wasn't ready cash on hand to build.

 

[yitbos96bb]

At the estimated cost of of $8 million per mile*, it will take a lot more than $80 million to put in a workable system for connecting all the resorts to the theme parks. Figure at least a 25% increase in ticket prices, or a big increase in room costs.

*Estimated cost of Las Vegas system, WDWs swampy land would be higher. I've seen other estimates, even for elevated light rail in cities, of over $100 million per mile in initial building costs. San Diego estimates are $73 million per mile for elevated light rail. Even spread over 10 years, that is a major expense. Then add regular operating costs. And huge multi train boarding platforms for the parks.

Chuck, the estimates for Las Vegas are $87 million a mile, not 8. Some estimate higher.

http://www.austinmonorail.org/monorail_costs.htm

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_briefs_20030106.htm#LasVegas

 

[stitchfan23]

I wasn't going to even respond to this as I am so disgusted by some of the comments here. Yes I am overweight and have had to use a wheelchair on 2 of my last visits. Is it because I am overweight, no it is because I have a slipped disk in my back that won't go back into place. I am in pain almost every minute of everyday. Can I walk at home, yes and I do for the little bits that I can. I can be pain free when I get off a bus at the MK and be in agony by the time I get to the front gate. It all has to do with gravity. Am I overwieght from this condition partly yes, partly no. I was heavy before from my own doing but have put on more weight over the past two years because I can't exersice.

To the OP no it is not wrong for you to FEEL that way. But I do think it is wrong if you were to voice your disapproval to the ECV or wheelchair person. I think the bottom line to this is that if you have a problem with wheelchairs and ECV's being loaded first then talk or write a letter to Disney, don't take it out on the poor person who is following the rules that have been set out by Disney. Just as an aside, comments were made about special seating in shows. Well I just came back from Disney and will use Finding Nemo show as an example. We were in line and were there for the doors opening. Since I could transfer my family of 3 were taken to the wheelchair row and asked to transfer to a seat. We did and were off to the right hand side of the theatre. People were coming in 5 minutes before the show started and were being seated in the middle section still. When the show started we couldn't see half of the opening scene and others as well from our vantage point so don't think that the wheelchair seating is always the best in the house. As well at some of the shows if you cannot transfer you don't get the effects that others get at say bugs life and muppets or stitch.

For the poster who commented that they would like to do Disney in a wheelchair go for it. If you think looking at people's waists and below all day is fun, having to miss out on family conversations because they are going on behind and above you is fun, if you think having people fall on you or push you out of the way or jump over you is fun, if you think listening to comments about your weight or you disability is fun, if you think getting injured because someone pushed by you and you try not to hit them, hit an embankment and almost tip your ECV over is fun (saw this first hand last week) then maybe a wheelchair is for you. On the buses yes there were 3 of us and on most trips I was the only one who took a seat and I transfered to a seat so that others could sit in the handicap seating. In a week long trip my DH sat with the wheelchair folded once. Every other bus ride he stood in the exit door with the folded wheelchair. Is your loved one willing to do this so more people could get on the bus?

Again the bottom line is if you have a problem with the rules talk to Disney not the person in the wheelchair who is obeying the rules.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

At the estimated cost of of $8 million per mile*, it will take a lot more than $80 million to put in a workable system for connecting all the resorts to the theme parks. Figure at least a 25% increase in ticket prices, or a big increase in room costs.

*Estimated cost of Las Vegas system, WDWs swampy land would be higher. I've seen other estimates, even for elevated light rail in cities, of over $100 million per mile in initial building costs. San Diego estimates are $73 million per mile for elevated light rail. Even spread over 10 years, that is a major expense. Then add regular operating costs. And huge multi train boarding platforms for the parks.

But you're not starting from scratch, you already have existing infrastructure.

WDW has 100 million guests per year. I betcha if you tacked on a ONE DOLLAR "build the monorail get rid of the busses" tax onto each ticket you'd find people would be falling over themselves to pay it.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[Dani C]

Am I wrong to feel this way?

No, you are not wrong to feel that way. Please remember that feelings are emotional not logical. To be rude or disrespectful to someone in a scooter would be wrong as that is an action and is something you can control, but you cannot always help the way you feel.

 

[Chuck S]

But you're not starting from scratch, you already have existing infrastructure.

WDW has 100 million guests per year. I betcha if you tacked on a ONE DOLLAR "build the monorail get rid of the busses" tax onto each ticket you'd find people would be falling over themselves to pay it.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread...

The only real expense not there is purchasing right of ways, as there are already some monorail right of ways to SSR and DtD. But you would need at least a dozen new trains, new track installations to connect the resorts, new electrical transformers/power supplies and new/expanded load platforms, and expanded maintenance facilities. The majority of the expenses are still there, $100 million per year wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to construct a fully operational transportation system without busses.

And actually, most industry estimates are in the 25 Million visitors per year range,not 100 million. No way that there are 68,000 people per park every day at WDW.

 

[katybugsmom]

Speaking from someone that has to use an ECV out of neccessity I do understand how you feel, but please remember if someone on an ECV is the first person on they are also the last person off. Try explaining this to your DD10 and DS 4 who can't wait to get into a park each day why we have to wait to get off last all because I'm in an ECV.
I am also one of those people who can leave the comfort of my ECV and walk onto a ride-this doesn't mean I can walk all over the parks, but short distances only. I had back surgery 1 1/2 ago and can't do all the walking required in the parks. I got plenty of looks last summer, but I chose to ignore them. No one was ever verbally rude, just looks. It's extremely hard to navigate an ECV at WDW on a crowded summer day-people walk in front of you all the time and never give you a second glance. It also takes a lot of practice boarding a bus-it's why we don't buy hopper passes-I try never to get on a bus more than twice a day-I don't want to hold up other families any longer than necessary. Please try to remember too-just because you can't see a disability does not mean there's not one there! I'm overweight-always have been, but I still manage even with my back problems to teach 30 precious 4 year olds, including three special needs children, every day! People think just because I'm overweight and riding an ECV that I'm simply lazy and don't want to walk! My husband and I shared a wonderful trip to Disney World 11 years ago not knowing I was pregnant with our first child! We walked everywhere and had a blast! I will never be able to do that with my children and that breaks my heart! I have to be content scooting around with them instead of walking, running and holding their hands! Next time you see someone riding in an ECV there's probably a story behind the chair.
*** I'm sorry if I sound over-emotional! Our house was broken into today and I'm stressed out! Went on DISBoards for a little stress relief and found this thread instead!

 

[taximomfor4]

Those comments hurt, and many of us don't forget them. I have never used an ECV and I am very active, but it hurts me to see people I care about spoken to in such a fashion. And I can assure you that those are not just words on a message board; they are also spoken aloud time and time again in 'real life' at WDW. Just read for awhile over on the DisABILITIES board and you will see that not everyone is pleasant while at WDW.

Nobody can tell someone how to feel, but perhaps they can give some insight as to what the other person is experiencing.

Geez, your posts are always so well-worded, and well thought-out. If you're ever in Cleveland, we DEFINITELY should get together for a drink (coffee? margaritas? whatever!)

Beth

 

[yitbos96bb]

But you're not starting from scratch, you already have existing infrastructure.

WDW has 100 million guests per year. I betcha if you tacked on a ONE DOLLAR "build the monorail get rid of the busses" tax onto each ticket you'd find people would be falling over themselves to pay it.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread...

You still have to pay for the tracks! That cost is NOT reduced by existing infrastructure.

 

[RN01]

I think everyone is missing the point. A person with a legitimate disabillity deserves some extra help, especially if traveling with others with affliction or the elderly, and yes I believe the designers should take some consideration while constructing or renovating attrations.

However, if your are over weight, obese, lazy, each cheek hangs over the seat of the scooter, abused smoking with the oxygen tank attached, never took care of yourself, don't exercise or just plain cant put down the snickers bar..............
BACK OF THE LINE!

Thank you and have a Disney Day!

Excellent point!!

 

[Chuck S]

And when someone knows of a 100% foolproof and legal way to discern who is truly disabled just by looking at them riding an ECV in a theme park, then you may have cause to complain. Until then, the ADA does not allow any one to require any proof of disability, nor should they, under HIPPA and applicable privacy acts.

 

[SueM in MN]

And when someone knows of a 100% foolproof and legal way to discern who is truly disabled just by looking at them riding an ECV in a theme park, then you may have cause to complain. Until then, the ADA does not allow any one to require any proof of disability, nor should they, under HIPPA and applicable privacy acts.

And still, there are people who think they can tell.
We have heard comments from people who think that our DD is "using a wheelchair to get ahead in lines" just because they saw her sitting on a bench next to her wheelchair. To a lot of people, if someone can get out, they don't need it. They saw DD sitting on a bench, with her legs crossed, swinging her top leg.
But, the part they didn't see was when we lifted her out of her wheelchair and put her onto the bench because she is not able to get out of the wheelchair by herself. And, we lifted her leg to cross it over the other one because she can't do that herself either - well, she can, but in order to do it, she has to grab her sock and work her leg up.
The person who made the comment "knew" though that she was not really disabled.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

And still, there are people who think they can tell.
We have heard comments from people who think that our DD is "using a wheelchair to get ahead in lines" just because they saw her sitting on a bench next to her wheelchair. To a lot of people, if someone can get out, they don't need it. They saw DD sitting on a bench, with her legs crossed, swinging her top leg.
But, the part they didn't see was when we lifted her out of her wheelchair and put her onto the bench because she is not able to get out of the wheelchair by herself. And, we lifted her leg to cross it over the other one because she can't do that herself either - well, she can, but in order to do it, she has to grab her sock and work her leg up.
The person who made the comment "knew" though that she was not really disabled.

Now see that is just terrible. I would never voice any opinion regardless of what I thought for the very reason you posted. You don't really know.
However, I think you could agree that not every person that rides on a scooter really needs one for what you would consider a real disability. Do I begrudge them? No, but I can't help but wonder how lazy you could be if you TRULY DON'T NEED ONE and you still get one because you don't want to walk. I also have no way of knowing which people these are. To be honest I rarely notice anyone that I would actually take notice of in WDW. I am usually so busy with my family that I don't think about those things. Sure, when I am waiting for the 19th bus and my kids are starting to pass out and my back can't take standing anymore I might groan in my head that another scooter with a party of 12 pulled up just as it would have finally been our turn but then I do say a prayer of thanks to God I don't need one and a prayer to bless those that do.

A little OT but I wanted to share this.
My grandmother once told me a story about when my Aunt was younger. (she is now deceased) They went to the store and parked in handicapped parking. They did have a placard so they were not parked illegally. Now to look at them you would see a mother and her young adult dd. What you would never know is that my Aunt had a terminal illness and bad heart problems. She was able to walk but not long distances. She was beautiful and had no outward signs of her illness. A person pulled up to them and yelled at my grandmother and Aunt for parking in the handicapped stall because they were healthy. My grandmother was so mad and told the person in a very colorful way that my Aunt had heart problems and to go...well you get the picture.
How my grandmother only wished that her dd was healthy. She would have parked in the farthest space and carried her on her shoulders screaming to the heavens if she was healthy. I always remember that story because it upset not only my grandmother but my Aunt as well who was battling her illness.
So you can't really tell if someone is ill by looking at them but I do hope that those of them that are faking never ever have to see what it is like to really be ill.
Sorry to get OT-
Back to our regularly scheduled thread!