Budget cuts at Walt Disney World

[rteetz]

The deal wasn't officially struck until 1999 around two years after the handover. While it commenced under British Administration, it proceeded and was finalized after the handover. It wasn't any power in London orchestrating the deal, it was the Government of Hong Kong.

That is true but the people there were still very influenced by the British. Whereas Shanghai is true mainland China.

 

[DDLand]

That is true but the people there were still very influenced by the British. Whereas Shanghai is true mainland China.

I see your point now. You're certainly correct on the cultural differences between the two countries. Even now it remains much more western. My misunderstanding.

 

[rteetz]

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...changes-to-sorcerers-of-the-magic-kingdom.htm

 

[Budshark]

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...changes-to-sorcerers-of-the-magic-kingdom.htm

That sucks. We've used it a few times. When we were there in Feb only 1 computer was running up front. Because of this both sites were very busy...

 

[rteetz]

That sucks. We've used it a few times. When we were there in Feb only 1 computer was running up front. Because of this both sites were very busy...

At least they aren't getting rid of the game.

 

[rteetz]

http://wdwnt.com/blog/2016/02/budge...-disney-world-still-no-statement-from-disney/

 

[Josh Hendy]

I don't disagree with that concern. One thing that gives me comfort though, is the identity of the majority partner in this project.

Would the Municipal Government of Shanghai invest in a product that they view as too controversial or lacking appeal? It seems dubious. They too must expect that the appeal of these great stories and experiences will transcend cultural barriers and create joy for guests. They probably have more riding on this than Disney does (hard to believe, huh?) because this park and resort is also an extension of the effectiveness of the government. If this bombs, it will be a sharp rebuke of their investment, partner, and also their leadership. It will be humiliating.

Very good point. In general, I'm sure that the movers and shakers of Shanghai business and government are very pro-Disney and relatively pro-American and pro-peace.

But there are tensions between the central government in Beijing and the people who have regional power bases. It's a kind of internal imperialism. The largest cities in China have all been turned into provincial-level jurisdictions ... which sounds like a promotion, but it has also been interpreted as a way of weakening the cities in comparison to Beijing by imposing political boundaries between them and their natural economic resource base. Therefore Chongqing was removed from Sichuan Province, and Shanghai was removed from Jiangsu Province. This was intended to keep the cities relatively weak and to prevent the development of regional, distinct and separate power bases.

It would be interesting to find out whether the people who behind the rude b_tch-slapping of Iger last year were actually Beijing officials, who were doing it not out of any personal hostility, but in order to put the Shanghai officials back in their place for the sin (to the central government) of scoring a really big coup for Shanghai-USA relations.

If you remember the tensions over the building of the first McDonalds in Beijing ... basically a long-term lease was signed which was then torn up and McDonalds was ejected from their prime location. I was visiting China at that time and a foreign journalist told me in a quiet and hushed voice, "This is really a struggle between Beijing and Shanghai," because apparently people from Shanghai had scored the coup of bringing McDonald's to China and made the Beijing people jealous of their power and influence (and money).

 

[Julz226]

One of the store employees mentioned budget cuts being behind the MAJOR backup at bag check. Today it took over 40 minutes to get through security at the Magic Kingdom.
Have included a photo that shows how long the lines stretched for bag check....

 

[Mofang]

Lurker finally registering an account to say hi, and to chip in a bit of my perspective on the Shanghai park because I've spent quite a bit of time as an American traveling throughout Asia.

Have they over saturated their market in Asia? What was the motive/rationale for having two parks in Asia anyway?

(Not begrudging it, just confused).

The most important reason is probably language. Tokyo operates a park in Japanese characters and language. Hong Kong operates a park where the first written language is in traditional Chinese characters and the first spoken language is in Cantonese. But everyone in mainland China uses simplified Chinese characters and speaks a different language, Mandarin. None of these three languages is mutually intelligible when spoken...

While the written characters share a common heritage, and Hong Kong Disneyland certainly courts mainland visitors - there's absolutely a need for a park presented in their native language. The Tokyo park in particular is unlikely to draw visitors from China, and there's a growing amount of resistance from locals in Hong Kong to increased mainland tourism.

Disneyland Paris benefits from the widespread usage of English across the European Union as a common denominator language; there's no such convenient alternative for the major Asian languages yet (although English may fill that role sooner rather than later!)

Shanghai may be more like Tokyo in that it's an Asian super-megalopolis which therefore has a built-in local customer base of 10-20 million people within a short commute of the park.

This is true - Shanghai is the largest city proper in the world and a very vibrant market in and of itself. But don't discount its position within mainland China, either - both Beijing and Shanghai are aspirational cities to visit for people throughout China. It's already a built-in tourist destination with fantastic transport connectivity and a neverending stream of visitors - much like Paris is in Europe. I think this park will be very well positioned to pull in a steady stream of new guests.

Shanghai may be positioned culturally and politically towards the USA more like France however ... somewhat hostile in other words. It's not a question of whether ordinary people all over the world are attracted to warm-hearted stories and lovable characters ... they are. It's a question of whether the "establishment" of a country feels politically hostile to anything that seems too "American". Not that they have any really strong reason to dislike America, but simply because it's beneficial for the leadership to promote anti-Americanism for reasons of domestic politics.

...

I'm just speculating ... but the political and cultural headwind may be working against Disney in Shanghai as I think it works against them in Paris.

Shanghai is an interesting place. For most of its history, it's been the city in mainland China that has been the most open and welcoming to foreigners. In the 1850s, the city was designated as a hub for western trade; it was divided into fourths and run by the Americans, Germans, British and French. The Bund - the waterfront promenade - still has a very western feel and looks more like 1920s New York than a Chinese city. And if you squint while walking through the French Concession, you could easily imagine yourself in Europe. This heritage has left the city very receptive to western ideas, and you'd be hard pressed to describe the people and culture as a hostile environment...

Most Chinese people are actually very open and receptive to Western culture and ideas. They're certainly proud of their own country, too - don't get me wrong - but there isn't a general hostility toward the US at all that I've encountered in my travels. Far from it - Disney characters are everywhere, western movies are popular, and people actually have a more positive perception of America than most western Europeans do. I can barely walk a block in China without people approaching me, wanting to practice their English and take a selfie with me - it gives me a taste of what being a character in a park must be like!

(This is referring to everyday citizens, of course - leaders of all kinds often take much more aggressive positions for a variety of reasons ranging from politics to trade, and that's what we hear more about in our news reports. But even there, I think everyone recognizes that a healthy, balanced relationship between the US and China is beneficial to both parties.)

That is true but the people [in Hong Kong] were still very influenced by the British. Whereas Shanghai is true mainland China.

Hong Kong and Shanghai actually have a surprisingly large amount in common; both had a British colonial period, both are prosperous financial centers with gleaming new downtowns. But as rteetz says, it's important to recognize that Hong Kong is a completely distinct region from the rest of mainland China - they're proud of their separate governance and the city has developed a culture all its own.

The main risk to Disney from opening a Shanghai park is cannibalizing the Hong Kong Disneyland market. For now, it won't be a problem - HK is extremely popular among mainlanders because it has a perception of offering higher quality products and services, and there are enough visitors to keep both running well. But in 20 years, if the Shanghai park ends up wildly successful, people may choose to go there instead and bypass HK entirely... leaving HK's primary audience as only Australian and Southeast Asian visitors.

---

Long story short, as a US based Disney visitor, all the cuts coming this year are a major bummer. But as a world traveler, I'm super excited to see the new park in Shanghai coming together, and I think it will quickly be known both a source of new rides for us to enjoy and an attraction all its own. I'd encourage all of you to consider eventually visiting China and experiencing the new park (as well as all the other attractions of both Beijing and Shanghai). I find both Hong Kong and the mainland to each be really, really rewarding places to visit, and I believe both would well exceed your expectations if all of your impressions of China are based on what you've seen on TV.

For now, though, I'd nudge you all towards Japan, instead - the currency exchange rate is very favorable right now and airfares are low, making a trip very affordable. And Japan is extremely accessible to westerners - it's the perfect balance of excitingly unfamiliar and comfortably welcoming. Maybe the best part is discovering the vast array of delicious food that would satisfy even the pickiest eater (it's not just sushi!). If you're frustrated with the Disney cutbacks stateside this year, why not plan a trip to Tokyo Disneyland instead? Just make sure to add plenty of extra time to explore Tokyo and Kyoto

(Way off topic for this board, but if you're considering a trip to either China or Japan, I'd love to hear from you via private message - I may be able to help offer some advice!)

 

[Mac30188]

One of the store employees mentioned budget cuts being behind the MAJOR backup at bag check. Today it took over 40 minutes to get through security at the Magic Kingdom.
Have included a photo that shows how long the lines stretched for bag check....View attachment 154012

Sad. That is worse than most of the biggest airport security on a bad day. Custom's lines to third world countries are usually better than 40 minutes. In fact, I can't think of another security gate that takes 40 minutes to get through.

 

[Budshark]

One of the store employees mentioned budget cuts being behind the MAJOR backup at bag check. Today it took over 40 minutes to get through security at the Magic Kingdom.
Have included a photo that shows how long the lines stretched for bag check....View attachment 154012

This is worst case scenario and a pending nightmare for Disney. Guests stuck outside the gates are not spending money and growing heavily agitated. They are apt to post pictures and complain. It is a simple fix, but one clearly lacking in Disney's current mindset.

the next 4 weeks are going to be telling. If lines to get into parks become common coupled with demand pricing this will extend beyond just a vocal minority.

Disney's current win and premium is based on ease of vacation. It is much easier to book, plan, and pay for a Disney vacation the whole family can get behind vs a random city visit. That is worth a premium. When you stand outside the gates for an hour just to get in? That gives people pause. I expect it on Christmas break. Not at the very start of spring break. Unacceptable.

 

[Mac30188]

This is worst case scenario and a pending nightmare for Disney. Guests stuck outside the gates are not spending money and growing heavily agitated. They are apt to post pictures and complain. It is a simple fix, but one clearly lacking in Disney's current mindset.

the next 4 weeks are going to be telling. If lines to get into parks become common coupled with demand pricing this will extend beyond just a vocal minority.

Disney's current win and premium is based on ease of vacation. It is much easier to book, plan, and pay for a Disney vacation the whole family can get behind vs a random city visit. That is worth a premium. When you stand outside the gates for an hour just to get in? That gives people pause. I expect it on Christmas break. Not at the very start of spring break. Unacceptable.

Agree, this is one that will not play out well. You could see a lot more fights of this nature:

Agitated customer who spent 47 minutes waiting to get through bag check then is charged by Disney for missing their ADR. They already are hungry and angry and then the poor CM has to try to kick that customer in the gut by telling them they will be charged money for this less then satisfying experience.

 

[Budshark]

Absolutely.... bus cut backs, increased demand for scheduling making time more valuable, and longer lines just to get in the park on top of increased prices? That is a recipe for disaster.

Disney MUST effectively move people around their property and get them into their parks. The model is based on this part working well. And when it doesn't? Everything else becomes that much worse.

It is not difficult to imagine a customer who gets up early with cranky kids to get to a park for ADR before opening only to be met with a 35 minute wait for a bus, then a 40 minute wait for entry, who misses their ADR, only to be met with a 30 minute line to speak to a rep who is understaffed and instead of spreading magic spends their day dealing with angry (not unhappy - angry) guests. And then... without mentioning costs or hotel rooms or lines or dirty bathrooms or anything else - simply failing on the logistics of moving park guests around - Disney loses customers.

I hope this was an anomaly. If what is shown above becomes anything close to routine, then I will have to shift my thoughts / opinions / recommendations.

 

[mom2rtk]

One of the store employees mentioned budget cuts being behind the MAJOR backup at bag check. Today it took over 40 minutes to get through security at the Magic Kingdom.
Have included a photo that shows how long the lines stretched for bag check....View attachment 154012

If that is a result of budget cuts, then that is reprehensible. That has the potential to be a huge decrease in the value of that more expensive ticket to enter the park.

What day was that? Do you recall what the projected crowd level was?

 

[Eoghann]

One of the store employees mentioned budget cuts being behind the MAJOR backup at bag check. Today it took over 40 minutes to get through security at the Magic Kingdom.
Have included a photo that shows how long the lines stretched for bag check....View attachment 154012

If that is in fact the cause (and not other factors of which there could be many) then it would be an extreme example of penny wise and pound foolish. But that is the Disney way to some extent both the company and its guests.

 

[Julz226]

If that is a result of budget cuts, then that is reprehensible. That has the potential to be a huge decrease in the value of that more expensive ticket to enter the park.

What day was that? Do you recall what the projected crowd level was?

This was Monday, February 29. No idea what the projected crowd level was. It was not all that crowed once I managed to get inside. Wait times for rides were reasonable. Standby for the mountains were 30-50 minutes. You could walk onto most everything at EPCOT (which I went into without bags to bypass the mess. I left my house in Volusia County just after 8:00 am. I made it through the mess that is Downtown Orlando rush hour and to the parking lot (was up in the first section so no need to wait for tram) by 8:50.

From TTC, it took me over 40 minutes to make it across the lake.... Took the ferry since Monorail line was stretched out to the ticket counters. Boats were running frequently, with two boarding at once, but there were two boatloads of people ahead of me. Was not allowed to board the resort monorail. Looking back at messages from family who were staying onsite, they say bus service was few and far between that morning as well.

After I made it across the lake, I stood in line for another 40 minutes. There was a very grumpy security officer yelling at folks left and right. If my son had not already been in the park with his cousins, I probably would have turned around and gone home. Maybe some folks did, because it truly wasn't bad once we were inside. Pretty minimal crowds. Just terrible backup at TTC and security. I previously told friends driving in to plan 45 minutes for parking and transportation to gates. Now I would easily up that to an hour and a half. Took me longer to get from the Aladdin parking lot into the park than it did to get from Volusia County to Disney property.

 

[dlavender]

Took me longer to get from the Aladdin parking lot into the park than it did to get from Volusia County to Disney property.

Hopefully that experience is a one off. I couldn't imagine that scenario with DW and three kids. I'm stressed out thinking about it...

 

[Julz226]

The madness that was TTC and Security.... A few more photos. 02.29.2016

 

[Ursula's Apprentice]

The madness that was TTC and Security.... A few more photos. 02.29.2016 View attachment 154067 View attachment 154068 View attachment 154069

 

[Mofang]

This was Monday, February 29. No idea what the projected crowd level was.

TouringPlans data says MK yesterday was predicted 6 of 10, actual 8 of 10. So a pretty busy day, and more crowded than expected based on attraction wait times. Epcot was all the way down at 3 of 10.

Still no excuse for lines like that at all, though - yikes!