Brits visiting Canada detained after accidentally driving into USA

[maddiel]

It does have its drawbacks. You noted that it requires arriving early and of course everyone has to do it to make any sense.

It certainly wouldn't have worked in the cases where my wife (who is notoriously late for everything) showed up. I've been at the checkin desk 30 minutes before an international flight and we got to the gate 20 minutes before departure, along with going to the head of the security line with a small child.

It probably does work to schedule to some lower-traffic airports with limited Customs hours, although they almost always get placed on call. I know over at Oakland International Airport, there are complaints about what happens when there's a delay. It's a smaller airport and they carefully schedule international arrivals to spread the load on Customs.

Huh?

Our local airport (Halifax) pre-clears for all US flights. So whether I am flying direct from Halifax to O'Hare or Boston or Newark or Orlando or any other US destination, I arrive 2 hours early and use the US departure area, clear customs in Halifax and go merrily onto my flight.

If I were to travel to the US via another Canadian city (like Toronto or Montreal) I would arrive an hour early and use the domestic departure area in Halifax as I would be taking a domestic flight, then I would more than likely clear customs and move from the domestic to an international area in the second airport.

I don't have a choice (once I have chosen my routing by buying my ticket) about where I clear customs. It is however greatly preferable to me to clear customs before my initial flight since it's no fun to run through an airport to do it if there is a delay in my original flight (BTDT!!)

Your wife would risk being denied permission to board by arriving at our airport that late. Not a risk I would take, but to each their own.

M.

 

[ronandannette]

Huh?

Our local airport (Halifax) pre-clears for all US flights. So whether I am flying direct from Halifax to O'Hare or Boston or Newark or Orlando or any other US destination, I arrive 2 hours early and use the US departure area, clear customs in Halifax and go merrily onto my flight.

If I were to travel to the US via another Canadian city (like Toronto or Montreal) I would arrive an hour early and use the domestic departure area in Halifax as I would be taking a domestic flight, then I would more than likely clear customs and move from the domestic to an international area in the second airport.

I don't have a choice (once I have chosen my routing by buying my ticket) about where I clear customs. It is however greatly preferable to me to clear customs before my initial flight since it's no fun to run through an airport to do it if there is a delay in my original flight (BTDT!!)

Your wife would risk being denied permission to board by arriving at our airport that late. Not a risk I would take, but to each their own.

M.

That's an interesting point - I never layover in Canada when I'm going to the States but I'd imagine you're correct about how it works. Almost all our air travel is into the US and it's amazing how much quicker it is, on those few domestic or overseas flights we take, when one doesn't have to go through US Customs before boarding.

 

[CdnCarrie]

The "counter-protest" wasn't even on-site with the climate activists. It was a drive-by convoy. The event was peaceful on all sides. This is the account from CityTV in Toronto, not exactly a biased, conservative bastion:
https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2019/10/17/convoy-heading-to-edmonton-for-climate-counter-protest/

@CdnCarrie Here's the CBC's account and not one peep about the smack talk you mentioned.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/greta-thunberg-edmonton-climate-rally-1.5325030

It was some link on FB. Tried to find it but haven’t seen it again. Think it was a Alberta radio station?
But the comments were brutal about her killing herself and such.
Honestly I haven’t paid any attention to any of this stuff. Never heard of her until the UN thing.
But no she doesn’t deserve death threats. That’s just awful.
If I find the link I will post it.

It wasn’t the actual story that was awful.
Just the comments.

 

[ronandannette]

It was some link on FB. Tried to find it but haven’t seen it again. Think it was a Alberta radio station?
But the comments were brutal about her killing herself and such.
Honestly I haven’t paid any attention to any of this stuff. Never heard of her until the UN thing.
But no she doesn’t deserve death threats. That’s just awful.
If I find the link I will post it.

Please do - I'll wait. And do try to be fair in your assessment of whether it's an isolated nut or a countless hoard of mouth-breathing, in-bred Albertans like you implied. I wish you'd come out for a visit - I think your opinion of us might change. You probably will, after all your kids move here for work.

 

[bcla]

Huh?

Our local airport (Halifax) pre-clears for all US flights. So whether I am flying direct from Halifax to O'Hare or Boston or Newark or Orlando or any other US destination, I arrive 2 hours early and use the US departure area, clear customs in Halifax and go merrily onto my flight.

If I were to travel to the US via another Canadian city (like Toronto or Montreal) I would arrive an hour early and use the domestic departure area in Halifax as I would be taking a domestic flight, then I would more than likely clear customs and move from the domestic to an international area in the second airport.

I don't have a choice (once I have chosen my routing by buying my ticket) about where I clear customs. It is however greatly preferable to me to clear customs before my initial flight since it's no fun to run through an airport to do it if there is a delay in my original flight (BTDT!!)

Your wife would risk being denied permission to board by arriving at our airport that late. Not a risk I would take, but to each their own.

M.

Not 100% sure what the question is about, but I'll take a guess.

I was thinking that it only makes sense if everyone on a flight is precleared. It's not as if they could have some people go through preclearance, but others who might be waved through (for example if they're late) and then required to go through US CBP at the destination.

My wife actually visited Canada once on a business trip and managed to get back in time. She's not like my parents, who like to arrive 3+ hours before the scheduled departure. Once I was driving my parents for an international flight when my dad realized that he left his cell phone at home. We actually had enough time to return and still got to the airport more than 2 hours.

My only flight to Canada was before preclearance. It wasn't bad though. The lines seemed really short.

 

[SirDuff]

That's an interesting point - I never layover in Canada when I'm going to the States but I'd imagine you're correct about how it works. Almost all our air travel is into the US and it's amazing how much quicker it is, on those few domestic or overseas flights we take, when one doesn't have to go through US Customs before boarding.

Yes, that is (generally) how it would work. There are a few airports in Canada with flights to the US but no CBP facilities (or, with CBP facilities that aren’t available for all flights) where you’d have to wait for customs/immigration until you’re in the US (whether you’re connecting or starting your trip at that airport), but it isn’t that many.

 

[dish rag]

I’m at a gate now at Pearson. The customs people are Americans. One goes through customs here at the airport for flights to the US. I’ve heard the US customs area at the airport is considered US territory some how but not sure about that.

 

[BadPinkTink]

One thing which has been mentioned but hasn't really been discussed and may give some context. Its been mentioned that the family are Irish Travellers.

Irish Travellers / Gypsies are an indigenous Irish ethnic group. They are called Travellers as traditionally they live in caravans and move location on a regular basis. They have very different customs, traditions and even language to settled people.

They would live very much outside the main stream. They marry from their own community, they would have very poor education, as the children move schools very often. The amount of cash they were carrying has been mentioned in this thread. Now that its known they are Travellers, this makes sense to me, as Travellers mainly don't have bank accounts, and would pay cash for most things, yes even big expenses such as flights and holidays.

Many Irish people move to The UK for work and family reasons, and Irish Travellers are no different. There are large communities of Irish Travellers in many areas of The UK.

Irish Travellers don't really have mainstream jobs like settled people. Traditionally, in Ireland back about 100 and more years ago, they were skilled metal workers and crafts people. The got the name Tinkers, as they made and fixed metal items such as jewellery, horse harnesses etc to make a living. They were also called knackers, as people would pay they to bring horses to the slaughterhouse.

Nowadays their tradition skills and crafts are just practised in their communities. Irish Travellers have a very fractured relationship with settled people. Many of their customs and traditional ways of living cause conflict with settled people. Their large families, association with dog breeding, horse breeding and scrap metal industries as well as their preferred living in caravans in unofficial campsites mean that they are targets for discrimination and exclusion from mainstream society.

Since the majority of Irish Travellers' employment is either self-employment or wage labour, income and financial status varies greatly from family to family. Many families choose not to reveal the specifics of their finances, but when explained it is very difficult to detect any sort of pattern or regular trend of monthly or weekly income. To detect their financial status many look to the state of the possessions: their trailer, motor vehicle, domestic utensils, and any other valuables.

 

[ronandannette]

I’m at a gate now at Pearson. The customs people are Americans. One goes through customs here at the airport for flights to the US. I’ve heard the US customs area at the airport is considered US territory some how but not sure about that.

There is a sign up in the Calgary airport at the secured entrance to US Customs saying something to that effect. I'd guess it's designated the same way an embassy is.

One thing which has been mentioned but hasn't really been discussed and may give some context. Its been mentioned that the family are Irish Travellers.

Irish Travellers / Gypsies are an indigenous Irish ethnic group. They are called Travellers as traditionally they live in caravans and move location on a regular basis. They have very different customs, traditions and even language to settled people.

They would live very much outside the main stream. They marry from their own community, they would have very poor education, as the children move schools very often. The amount of cash they were carrying has been mentioned in this thread. Now that its known they are Travellers, this makes sense to me, as Travellers mainly don't have bank accounts, and would pay cash for most things, yes even big expenses such as flights and holidays.

Many Irish people move to The UK for work and family reasons, and Irish Travellers are no different. There are large communities of Irish Travellers in many areas of The UK.

Irish Travellers don't really have mainstream jobs like settled people. Traditionally, in Ireland back about 100 and more years ago, they were skilled metal workers and crafts people. The got the name Tinkers, as they made and fixed metal items such as jewellery, horse harnesses etc to make a living. They were also called knackers, as people would pay they to bring horses to the slaughterhouse.

Nowadays their tradition skills and crafts are just practised in their communities. Irish Travellers have a very fractured relationship with settled people. Many of their customs and traditional ways of living cause conflict with settled people. Their large families, association with dog breeding, horse breeding and scrap metal industries as well as their preferred living in caravans in unofficial campsites mean that they are targets for discrimination and exclusion from mainstream society.

Since the majority of Irish Travellers' employment is either self-employment or wage labour, income and financial status varies greatly from family to family. Many families choose not to reveal the specifics of their finances, but when explained it is very difficult to detect any sort of pattern or regular trend of monthly or weekly income. To detect their financial status many look to the state of the possessions: their trailer, motor vehicle, domestic utensils, and any other valuables.

It was mentioned by a pp but I doubt very many of us are familiar with them. Are Irish Travellers different from Roma? Perhaps the reputation is undeserved but when we traveled to Paris, we were warned repeatedly about their criminal nature - thieving from and scamming tourists.

 

[BadPinkTink]

It was mentioned by a pp but I doubt very many of us are familiar with them. Are Irish Travellers are different from Roma? Perhaps the reputation is undeserved but when we traveled to Paris, we were warned repeatedly about their criminal nature - thieving from and scamming tourists.

Yes, my post above is most of the information about them. Irish Travellers are different to Roma / Romany Gypsies.

Irish Travellers are a totally different ethnic community. While their origins are not known, most historical studies agree that they share the same genetics as Celtic Irish people, not Romany Gypsies. Irish Travellers have been traced in existence over hundreds of years in Ireland, while Roma / Romany Gypsies only arrived in Ireland less than 20 years ago.

Irish travellers are a very organised ethnic community and part of their culture would be to keep to themselves and not interact with settled people.

If I was walking down the street it would be Roma / Romany Gypsies I would suspect of being a pick pocket, not an Irish Traveller.

An Irish Traveller would more likely just walk on by and not bother with purse stealing.

Also other than in certain areas of The UK, you wont see communities of Irish Travellers living in France, Germany or other European countries

 

[ronandannette]

Yes, my post above is most of the information about them. Irish Travellers are different to Roma / Romany Gypsies.

Irish Travellers are a totally different ethnic community. While their origins are not known, most historical studies agree that they share the same genetics as Celtic Irish people, not Romany Gypsies. Irish Travellers have been traced in existence over hundreds of years in Ireland, while Roma / Romany Gypsies only arrived in Ireland less than 20 years ago.

Irish travellers are a very organised ethnic community and part of their culture would be to keep to themselves and not interact with settled people.

If I was walking down the street it would be Roma / Romany Gypsies I would suspect of being a pick pocket, not an Irish Traveller.

An Irish Traveller would more likely just walk on by and not bother with purse stealing.

Also other than in certain areas of The UK, you wont see communities of Irish Travellers living in France, Germany or other European countries

Interesting - thanks.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The suburb I live in there are both Irish travellers and Roma / Romany Gypsies.

These photos I found on Google search would be very typical of the Irish travellers I see in my area. The girls dress very provocatively and teenage marriage is very common. Horses are a big part of their culture and even when they live in houses they would have a horse in their back yard. Its very common in certain Dublin suburbs to see horses and where I live, the council set up a community horse stable, so that the animals are housed correctly and the travellers are taught how to look after them properly






This photo I found on Google Images would be very typical of the Roma / Romany Gypsies I see in my area. The girls and women wear headscarves and long skirts. They live in subsidised houses and its typical for multiple families to live in one house. They have an olive skin tone and dont speak English. Most of then dont have any trade or craft and are on Government benefits. Once they have a house they tend to stay in that area.

 

[MillauFr]

Those photos look like performers from a high school drama production.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Interesting. We're on the eve of a national election right now and there's an international activist in town that I wish somebody would have screened. As for your comment about the Ottawa airport, yeah, that seems odd, doesn't it? One would imagine there would be a fair amount of US traffic in-and-out of the Capital. Calgary has had US Customs for at least 20 years, which is kind of a drag because it can add up to an hour to the security process. We've taken morning flights where there's only 1 agent on duty to clear hundreds of passengers. We've often thought about applying for Nexus but with only taking one one or two leisure flights per year, we just suck up the inconvenience.

You either have to go thru pre-clearance US Customs in Canada or go thru the standard method at your US destination if the Canadian airport doesn't offer it. Either way it adds time to your trip. I like the pre-clearance. It's done and over with and you can just collect your bags and depart when you reach the US.

The family illegally crossed about three miles east of the Lynden/Aldergrove crossing.


View attachment 445361

It's an odd route to take if, as they claimed, they were heading back to their hotel in Vancouver, especially after nightfall. There are much quicker direct routes.

The Zero Avenue road right on the border is now on my travel bucket list.

Some of these must be kind of an oddball assignment, such as a ferry terminal or train station. That's only two departures/arrivals per day.

Years ago I took the high speed catamaran ferry from Seattle to Victoria, British Columbia. There is a Canadian customs shed right on the docks in Victoria harbor.

No US pre-clearance there. Had to go thru US customs back on the pier in Seattle upon returning. This was in mid-March and there was only one round trip ferry per day. (They add additional crossings in the summer.) I suppose a handful of US Customs agents needed to be sent over from the Seattle airport to meet the ferry arrival at about 9 pm.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Those photos look like performers from a high school drama production.

Thats what they look like, thats their traditional style of clothes. You would never see Roma / Romany Gypsies wearing jeans and a Disney hoodie, you would never see Traveller girls wearing preppy style clothes.

Both of these groups are ethnic communities. In American you have Native Americans, well in Ireland we have Travellers and Roma / Romany Gypsies.

Right now, its 4.45pm on a Saturday, if you go down to my local mall, you will see girls and woman dressed like that,

 

[cheryl.UK]

@cheryl.UK - let me ask you. Have you ever been camping in France?

I don't understand? Was that not clear? Yes- many times. Often go there at Easter.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't understand? Was that not clear? Yes- many times. Often go there at Easter.

No, you were clear. I was teasing because you had to explain "camping" SO many times

 

[marcyleecorgan]

Now that @BadPinkTink has pointed out they are Irish Travellers, OF COURSE it makes sense that the border guards came down hard on them.

Not that I condone their illegal crossing at all, and I am laughing that they thought there wouldn't be video surveillance every two inches of that border... nor am I condoning their treatment...

BUT if they were all packed up with road trip items in their vehicle, no documentation of their reason for the road trip (photos, campground reservations, souvenirs, local eatery food trash, etc.) and carrying that much in cash, they looked just like any other group of people hoping to come to the USA on an asylum or refugee claim. They definitely would not have given off the normal stereotypical vibes that most "vanilla" land crossings are used to. Just like another poster said, they went camping in France, and probably due to the fact that they brought the camping gear home with them instead of just abandoning it or donating it, there was half an hour of questioning.

 

[kdonnel]

As for the hours of Customs in US airports, I hope they are scheduled based on international arrival times. Are there airports where arriving passengers have to wait for hours for the next shift to arrive?

I remember arriving in Barcelona back in the 90’s on a Delta flight that arrived before Customs and Immigration opened. Not sure if that was Deltas fault for scheduling a flight to arrive at that time or Spain’s fault for not properly staffing customs and immigration.

In any event we were bused to a room where we had to wait for 2 hours and then bused back to customs and immigration once it had opened.

 

[ronandannette]

I remember arriving in Barcelona back in the 90’s on a Delta flight that arrived before Customs and Immigration opened. Not sure if that was Deltas fault for scheduling a flight to arrive at that time or Spain’s fault for not properly staffing customs and immigration.

In any event we were bused to a room where we had to wait for 2 hours and then bused back to customs and immigration once it had opened.

That sounds like a real drag. On our only trip to Europe (so far) we flew into Paris and I don't remember it taking very long at all to clear customs. Several days later we flew to Barcelona and maybe because of the Schengen Agreement, we walked off the plane and straight to the luggage carousels. Rubes that we are, we were very hesitant to leave the terminal, looking all around for some sort of check-point to clear. Even when we finally got the nerve to venture out we kept looking over our shoulders.