Bringing family members...what would you do?

[bangzoom6877]

DH and I just became DVC members, with BWV as our home resort. I know our first trip home in July 2010 is still far away, but we are trying to bring some relatives with us. However, they are not DVC members and are not familiar with how it works, as far as reservations, availability, and cancellations.

We are going to book at the exact 11-month window, which means we have to book in August 2009. We know we want to arrive the third week in July 2010. I have spoken to my parents and my sister about coming with us. They only want to go for 5 nights (we will be staying 10 nights). We could afford for them to come with us and stay on our points if we get a one-bedroom (our original plan for our trip), and they each get a studio (my nieces will be joining my sister, so they will have a room, and my parents would have their own room). This is affordable on our points, with banking and borrowing some. They all insisted on paying the going rate at the time for a value resort since that is where they would have been staying had we not purchased the DVC. I told them that I will either accept that amount, or the going rate for renting the points, whichever is less money. I tried just allowing them to pay the maintenance on the points but they were pretty insistent.

I recently spoke to my sister about this, because we got our member number last Friday so we were excited. She told me that she does not know where she will be in her life in summer of 2010, and she is not sure if she could tell me in August either. She said I should book it and she can definitely give me an answer before the 31-day mark (I explained the holding account thing to her briefly). Now, I am aware that once you make a reservation that requires you to borrow points, you cannot return those borrowed points to the original use year if you cancel that reservation. I did not think to mention this to her at the time (it just slipped my mind, I know I should have told her). So, what I am trying to avoid is a situation where my sister tells me to book it, and then for example in Spring 2010 tells me "oops, we're not going". I also do not want to get into an argument with her over this. And I know it is far away right now from booking.

So, my plan was to speak to her some time in June, 2 months before we actually have to book the trip. I am adamant about trying to get a standard view one-bedroom at BWV (our home resort) so we can stay for 10 nights on fewer points. With borrowing, we will ONLY be able to afford each of them a studio in a standard view category. So there's the importance of the 11-month booking window. I know those standard view studios go fast at BWV and July is busy season.

On the one hand, I do not want to lose my points (borrowed points would go into the 2010 use year, and expire March 31, 2011 since we have and April UY). We are going to WDW every other year, so we would definitely lose those points if we cannot rent them and I don't want to have to count on renting them either. On the other hand, I would love for my parents, sister & nieces and us to all enjoy BWV. Planning to go every other year in a one-bedroom for 10 nights each trip, this would be the only trip we could afford the points for all of us to go (since we have 2009's points coming and I am banking those into 2010 for the trip, plus borrowing 2011 points, so 3 year's worth to use).

What would you do if you were me? Book it and risk it, then rent out the points if they decide not to go? Don't book it and explain it to my sister and parents that I might not be able to get them 5 nights since the lower point rooms go quickly and I will have to book wherever I can get it the longer they wait to book? And how do I break all of this to them gently without any arguments?

Sorry this is so long! We're a very close family and this trip would be so nice together, especially for my nieces and my children but it seems so complicated.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Um, I'm just gonna say good luck.

 

[vicki_c]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I would wait until the last possible time to book, so like you said August 2009 and not stress about it too much until then.

Then, between now and then, have a sit down with your family and just explain that should they decide to cancel and put you in a situation where you can't use the points, they will have to pay you for the room anyway. I recognize that's probably a difficult conversation, but I think that's what I would do -- make it very clear, up front, multiple times if needed, that you can't really cancel last minute when using points for a reservation.

Or get the money from them up front and explain that you won't be returning it if they cancel (same thing, just different process).

Hope that helps - we have unreliable type relatives (not saying your DS is!), but we haven't tried to take any of them to Disney yet!

 

[disneynutz]

Book for you, and if they can't commit, let them place their own reservations at the BW.

Being nice sometimes leaves you holding the bag.

 

[toocherie]

So here's a question: if you book a one bedroom and two studios--some using current year's points, and some using borrowed points--can you designate which reservation gets the current points and which gets the borrowed points? So that you can definitely use the borrowed points towards the reservation you keep no matter what? (i.e., the one-bedroom?)

or, with an April UY, if MS uses the borrowed points first, then can't the current year points be banked? (assuming that the reservation is cancelled 31 days or more)?

or am I confused (very possible!)

 

[bangzoom6877]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I would wait until the last possible time to book, so like you said August 2009 and not stress about it too much until then.

Then, between now and then, have a sit down with your family and just explain that should they decide to cancel and put you in a situation where you can't use the points, they will have to pay you for the room anyway. I recognize that's probably a difficult conversation, but I think that's what I would do -- make it very clear, up front, multiple times if needed, that you can't really cancel last minute when using points for a reservation.

Or get the money from them up front and explain that you won't be returning it if they cancel (same thing, just different process).

Hope that helps - we have unreliable type relatives (not saying your DS is!), but we haven't tried to take any of them to Disney yet!

I don't have the heart to have them pay me anyway even though they are not going. DH suggested sitting down with them and telling them that if they do cancel and we cannot rent out the points, they will have to pay the maintenance on those points. I still don't know if I even have the heart to do this.

Book for you, and if they can't commit, let them place their own reservations at the BW.

Being nice sometimes leaves you holding the bag.

DH and I talked about this and it just might be the most peaceful way to go. We'll see. I still think that maybe explaining the cancellation policy when using points to them, and then giving them the option to commit or not might work. Again, it is still a risk that they will cancel anyway (hey, things happen too beyond our control). But that is also a risk we take ourselves when booking on points since we cannot predict the future and things can happen last-minute. Still, this will not be easy to talk about with them. Why do I have a funny feeling that it will just be DH, me, and our 2 kids in July 2010?!

 

[westjones]

We took family with us last summer. We booked a 2 bedroom and decided that we would just enjoy the unit ourselves if they didn't come (but they did).

You know, you could always let them stay at the values and just meet up with them.....OR book them at the Swan or Dolphin right next to the Boardwalk if they can't plan that far in advance.

Good Luck!
DJ

 

[bangzoom6877]

So here's a question: if you book a one bedroom and two studios--some using current year's points, and some using borrowed points--can you designate which reservation gets the current points and which gets the borrowed points? So that you can definitely use the borrowed points towards the reservation you keep no matter what? (i.e., the one-bedroom?)

or, with an April UY, if MS uses the borrowed points first, then can't the current year points be banked? (assuming that the reservation is cancelled 31 days or more)?

or am I confused (very possible!)

According to the member materials I read (the trip planner), unless I misunderstood, once you make a reservation that will require you to borrow points from the following UY, those points cannot be returned to their priginal UY should you cancel the reservation, even if it is before the 31-day window. Yes, I suppose you can use the borrowed points for the reservation not being cancelled, and bank the current year's points. That would mean banking 2010's points into 2011. The problem is that those points would then have to be used by March 31, 2012 or lose them. We are going every other July to WDW. So we will miss being able to use those banked points for our next Disney trip by about 4 months.

I know what many of you are probably thinking...just go on another trip! LOL, it still is a lot of money to go down there even with DVC (tickets, food, transportation, etc.). So every other year works for us! That's why we purchased 150 points on our resale!

 

[bangzoom6877]

We took family with us last summer. We booked a 2 bedroom and decided that we would just enjoy the unit ourselves if they didn't come (but they did).

You know, you could always let them stay at the values and just meet up with them.....OR book them at the Swan or Dolphin right next to the Boardwalk if they can't plan that far in advance.

Good Luck!
DJ

I know, this is another option too. DH and I figured that if they do decide to go and there are no rooms we can afford to get them on points then they can stay at a value. It would be nice though if we could all stay together, especially since the kids would enjoy it so much. That was the whole point of taking them with us, but we would still enjoy ourselves if we stayed at different hotels. I know they will not pay close to $400 a night for a room at BWI. The value is where they would be staying if we did not have DVC, no doubt (even though we would have stayed at either BWI or BC if we did not get DVC, one of the reasons we got it in the first place!).

The other problem with this is that a 2-bedroom holds 8 people and we will be 10 total. Even if it would fit all of us, they are only staying 5 nights and we are staying 10, so we would not need all that room the last 5 nights. And DH is adamant about staying in the same room the entire trip and not moving!

 

[Dean]

IMO, this has all the earmarks of a bad plan. If you're looking at standard view for BWV, you'll need to book at 11 months out to the day in all likelihood. Look at what you need in terms of rooms and how many points. Look at weekends vs weekdays. Envision your worst case scenario if every single person cancels and where you would be with points. Try to put yourself where you can use up all of your banked and borrowed points in your reservation. If necessary, you could leave some weekends for later to avoid borrowing points you might not end up needing. Be prepared for someone to cancel 3 weeks before your trip.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I would suggest that you book 10 nights in the 1BR for your immediate family. In SV at BWV, that will run about 294 points.

When your family members commit and pay you for their accomodations, book a S-Th night stay for them. That will run you 70 points in PV and 55 in SV. Let them know that the price will be $700 if they commit at 11 months, $550 if they commit at 7 months and you will try your best, but nothing may be available at any other time.

As an alternative, book 10 nights in a SV 2BR for 402 points. Invite your parents for first 5 nights and your sister for the next 5 nights. If anyone cancels, enjoy the extra space for your immediate family and hope you are not forever spoiled and unable to book a 1BR in the future.

If the rooms you need at BWV are not available when your family is ready to commit, another alternative would be try at that time for rooms at OKW, where the points cost will be similar to a a SV at BWV.

If it makes you feel better, we used more than 2 years worth of points on our first DVC stay and never regretted it.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[Deb & Bill]

IF Member Services would use the current year points to book the studios and the borrowed points to book the one bedroom, you would be able to still bank the points if one or both studios were cancelled. Again, IF. You would be more than 4 months from the end of your UY and they would be current year points that could be banked.

 

[LIFERBABE]

If your plans are that fixed, then you really dont have the flexibility to accomodate others on your points.

I dont book for anyone unless I am prepared to use them or lose them. You can explain, have a contract, etc. but it can still fall thru.

It does not sound like you would use the points before they expire and you dont want to risk losing them, so imho you are not a good candidate to book for others.

I personally would not put my family/friends in the position to commit or ruin my family's future vacation plans.

There will be alot of resentment if this deal falls thru and that would stop me from doing it.

I have hosted large family trips, but each time I was prepared to use or lose those points if they flaked. I had a studio go empty at HHI last May, because not everyone came but I was prepared to lose those points to ensure I was able to accomodate everyone. I am just back from a solo trip that a friend was to join me on. She cancelled last minute and I went anyway. Use them or lose them when dealing with friends or family.

 

[disneynutz]

I don't have the heart to have them pay me anyway even though they are not going. DH suggested sitting down with them and telling them that if they do cancel and we cannot rent out the points, they will have to pay the maintenance on those points. I still don't know if I even have the heart to do this.



DH and I talked about this and it just might be the most peaceful way to go. We'll see. I still think that maybe explaining the cancellation policy when using points to them, and then giving them the option to commit or not might work. Again, it is still a risk that they will cancel anyway (hey, things happen too beyond our control). But that is also a risk we take ourselves when booking on points since we cannot predict the future and things can happen last-minute. Still, this will not be easy to talk about with them. Why do I have a funny feeling that it will just be DH, me, and our 2 kids in July 2010?!

IMHO you are setting yourself up for failure. Based upon your comments, your good intentions may cause a major fracture with the family. No matter what you do, some will think that you are talking advantage of them because they don't understand the DVC system.

You would be better off telling them that you are going on vacation and would they like to meet up with you, paying their own way and making their own arrangements. I bet no one will show up.

The idea of a wonderful Disney vacation is in your mind not theirs, and they will never appreciate the Magic like you do.

 

[disney0210]

we came back from a recent trip (10/5-10/13) with DH's family namely mom and dad, sister 1 with husband and 2 kids, sister 2, sister 3, brother 1 with wife; add to that DH, me, DD6 and my dad - 14 people in total spread out over 4 studios. we offered for them to come and use our points. no one offered to pay and we would not have accepted anyway.

we have a december use year and what we told DH's family is that it is okay we book for them using our points, but we told them if they would cancel, they had to cancel by our banking deadline, which was july 31st. we told them the repercussions for us if they cancelled past that date, and we think they got the point, being that this is free accommodation for them.

glad that your family is really close. i thought i was close with DH's family too, but being at WDW with varying families (some with kids, some without) and different likes/dislikes, was really tough. DMIL really pushed a lot of buttons and really got in my nerves. and to think i was the one who concocted this whole vacation thing with my in laws and proposed it to DH! what in the world was i thinking! i told him if he ever heard me planning on sharing our points again with his family, that he had my permission to pull my hair, grab my head and bang it against the wall so i'd wake up.

 

[disneynutz]

we came back from a recent trip (10/5-10/13) with DH's family namely mom and dad, sister 1 with husband and 2 kids, sister 2, sister 3, brother 1 with wife; add to that DH, me, DD6 and my dad - 14 people in total spread out over 4 studios. we offered for them to come and use our points. no one offered to pay and we would not have accepted anyway.

we have a december use year and what we told DH's family is that it is okay we book for them using our points, but we told them if they would cancel, they had to cancel by our banking deadline, which was july 31st. we told them the repercussions for us if they cancelled past that date, and we think they got the point, being that this is free accommodation for them.

glad that your family is really close. i thought i was close with DH's family too, but being at WDW with varying families (some with kids, some without) and different likes/dislikes, was really tough. DMIL really pushed a lot of buttons and really got in my nerves. and to think i was the one who concocted this whole vacation thing with my in laws and proposed it to DH! what in the world was i thinking! i told him if he ever heard me planning on sharing our points again with his family, that he had my permission to pull my hair, grab my head and bang it against the wall so i'd wake up.

And if anything goes wrong it will be your fault. Some families can get together and have a wonderful time. We have found that most can not, including ours.

We were at the SSR bus stop when a 12 person family group started showing up. People would pair off and bit** about the other people, use of points, no one cares, they are always late, they didn't like the food, it went on and on.

We decided to wait for the second bus.

 

[Kathi OD]

Personally, I would not make a reservation for your sister until she is sure she can go. If you can get her a room at that point, great. If not, that's just how things go.

 

[permavac]

If your plans are that fixed, then you really dont have the flexibility to accomodate others on your points.

I dont book for anyone unless I am prepared to use them or lose them. You can explain, have a contract, etc. but it can still fall thru.

It does not sound like you would use the points before they expire and you dont want to risk losing them, so imho you are not a good candidate to book for others.

I personally would not put my family/friends in the position to commit or ruin my family's future vacation plans.

There will be alot of resentment if this deal falls thru and that would stop me from doing it.

I have hosted large family trips, but each time I was prepared to use or lose those points if they flaked. I had a studio go empty at HHI last May, because not everyone came but I was prepared to lose those points to ensure I was able to accomodate everyone. I am just back from a solo trip that a friend was to join me on. She cancelled last minute and I went anyway. Use them or lose them when dealing with friends or family.

VERY sage advice indeed. I've been there - with the rose-colored glasses on - oh wouldn't it be nice to have everyone come on our fun beach week - so my first caution is be careful what you wish for Who me? Bitter? Don't get me wrong - sometimes these family trips can turn into some of the best memories you will ever have in your life, BUT, if your expectations are too high AND if there is a chance to get burned with money (or in this case, more importantly, points!) then you might want to rethink the plan. If you want to do a really generous thing and use your points for your family to accompany you, then joyfully book those studios at 11 months and tell your family members the date that they must cancel by so you can at least do something else with your points. If they cancel after that date, you are allowed to feel slightly bitter towards them . Asking for reimbursement (even if they cancel the day of) may cause bad feelings because as much as DVCers love their points, it's hard to explain to some that you are "out" anything because they might not equate it to money and will feel that you weren't asking them to come join you, but were shaking them down instead. Also, many times, if one isn't the initiator of the vacation, they have no vested interest in it above other things they might want to do and don't see it as canceling "plans" - more that they just decided not to come to visit you after all. (FYI: Saying all this does not mean that I approve of such churlish behavior - on the contrary - I have suffered enough to know that I can't control other people's actions so I will just control my own) So I guess I'm saying take the zen approach - book it and hope they will come. If not - go ahead and have the best vacation ever. If they do, ditto.

 

[permavac]

And if anything goes wrong it will be your fault. Some families can get together and have a wonderful time. We have found that most can not, including ours.

We were at the SSR bus stop when a 12 person family group started showing up. People would pair off and bit** about the other people, use of points, no one cares, they are always late, they didn't like the food, it went on and on.

We decided to wait for the second bus.

One other thing I forgot along these lines. If your sister has two kids staying in her room, she may see a studio as a downgrade from a value hotel like Pop Century because they have two beds (my own sister would see it that way and you'd be blue in the face before you could ever convince her otherwise ). If she does agree to go, you might want to let her know about the accommodations and sleeping arrangements just so she is prepared... Oh - and you may find that she is just not that interested in going and hopefully she will be honest about it.

 

[BroganMc]

I just advise caution.

I am almost exactly like you. I love Disney so much it is ingrained in me to share the experience. I keep offering to take people so often that I'm convinced it's a disease.

As it is I've got a gathering scheduled for my 17 member family next June that I dreamt of for years and now wish I could just cancel. (If only my 10 yo nephew didn't greet my return home with an ecstatic, "And next year I get to go to Disney on my birthday!")

Get your priorities in line. Your family's booking is the most important. That should be on the soon-to-expire borrowed/banked points. Make that clear to Member Services when you call.

Next comes the most likely guests. Look carefully at those point charts. If I recall correctly, it is actually cheaper to book a 2 bedroom lockoff than a 1bedroom and studio. You could book a 2bedroom for 5 of the days and downsize to the 1bedroom for the other 5. I know at SSR the Front Desk has let members just give up the studio when not needed. I believe BWV will too as long as you're talking the same exact category. At most you'd get new keys on the switchover day.

The last thing you do is book a room for the least likely guest (i.e. your sister). She's already giving you signals that she may wig out. You can not count on her at this point so shouldn't. It'll only leave one of you resentful. Discretion is the better part of valor here. Now if she changes her tune by the time you book next year and is making plans around the around vacation, then I'd think about upgrading her to a likely.

One last thought, don't think for a moment that the warnings here mean anyone thinks less of your generous nature. It's part of why we all love Disney so much. It's just that the timeshare world is frequently misunderstood and abused by family & friends.