BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[DaviVascaino]

So what does everyone think will happen to Genie+ once the recession and “revenge travel” finally merge? After 9/11, Disney had to offer deep discounts on rooms, ticket packages, FP+ changes, 3am
EMHs etc.

Is it feasible to think that as a family, we could hold off on another trip for 2-3 years and ride out this tide? Could they potentially throw Genie+ into an onsite resort stay or include one-two $ILL with a resort stay based on the length of nights?! I wasn’t a Disney goer until just a few years ago, so I don’t know how the “going down the rabbit hole of discounts” happened after 9/11. But I just don’t feel like this is sustainable in the long term and I realize no one knows, but someone, somewhere has to be looking at a potential exit strategy once the bubble finally bursts, right?!?

no discounts, I can guarantee.

International travelers, that used to make 20% of WDW guests, have barely returned flying. I know several people that are still waiting to go back to WDW (covid, vaccine requirements, etc...)

By the time Americans are maybe going less to Disney, you will see a HUGE influx of foreign travelers coming back.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Saw a thread on this elsewhere yesterday "everyone stop going to the parks and they'll know we hate Genie" - like, no. You think even a massive drop in attendance right now **gestures wildly at everything looming** would somehow get tied to their wildly successful (in terms of their sales) genie program?

Precisely. Even if you got a large number of people to boycott the parks, management would just point to the currently economic data as the culprit. You would have to maintain that lower level of attendance past the recession and into recovery, and even if you did that, it would be too far disconnected (you're at years now), for them to make the connection. If you waited until after the economic situation, it would again be too far disconnected from the event (Genie+). As it is, it's really too far out NOW to blame Genie+. Disney management are like dogs and toddlers - if you don't make the punishment hit at the time you catch them peeing on the carpet, it won't stick.

The biggest issue I have with Genie+ (beside paying for it) is the one LL per ride per day rule. I'm not the kind of guy that wants to do it all... I want to do a few select rides multiple times. In the FP+ days I would (for example) do Haunted Mansion 5-6 times in a day at MK. So let me have re rides and I will "happily" pay for G+ even with the price increase.

This is my son to a T. He would happily ride ToT all day (his record was some 30+ times in one day). Genie+ doesn't really help him since he doesn't want variety. He wants to just ride his ride.

It's measurably worse for me...

Find myself criss-crossing the park much more now, as I have to take the times that are available.
Find myself "stuck" in a park, because all I could get at 7AM is a 4PM slot for an attraction like Slinky Dog.
Find myself rushing to an ADR or a Concert as I had no control over picking a Genie+ time, or the waits that might have developed even in the LL.

I tend to roll with the punches, so I have not gotten noticeably upset over Genie+. That said, some of these are key points to me. They are not - I think - insolvable with Genie+(Disney could tweak the system). The biggest problem to me that would solve a lot of that is being able to pick the time you are reserving and maintain that time through checkout. But yes - my biggest frustration with the system was for example on my last trip when I had an ADR in Mexico at 2pm and I bought Remy choosing the 10am, then it changed to noon and after checkout was from 2-3pm. There was absolutely ZERO way I could have made both the ADR and Remy. That said, it was a pretty easy chat with Disney support to get that fixed (they pushed Remy back a bit) and it didn't really impact me as I was able to do it while standing in line.

As I said, I am a roll with the punches guy. I like FP+ better only because it worked FOR ME. That's because I am DVC, I plan to stay for a week, and I have a limited number of rides on my must do list. Because of that, I could usually get the 3 rides I really wanted in FP+, and I could get them at a time that was convenient for me.

Having said that, I saw (and see) the problems that FP+ had that Genie+ attempts to solve for others. I get it. I am someone who can nod my head at things that make sense to me, and the problems and the solution make sense. They do not work as well for me personally, but I follow the reasoning and therefore, I can agree with the concept.

 

[set88]

And they still do not have the ability to do it now. But now you get to pay $100 per day extra for an average size family to roll the dice and hope you can get some meaningful ones. And if you can't get stuff that works for you and you want to do a different park instead - nope! That video cherrypicks so much it's comical. It assumes you needed to take a sledgehammer to a system rather than tweak it. And there are FAR more issues with Genie+ on aggregate.



But it does. And I'd say far more. Genie+ only doesn't affect you if you are willing to just do whatever they give you. Want to take a mid-day break - tough! (unless you basically want to forego using Genie+ to full advantage). Arrive late? Tough. Sleep in? Tough. Want the ability to plan some rides so you're not criss-crossing the park all day? Tough. It benefits those who have absolutely no restrictions on their day and do not care how it gets scheduled. FP+ allowed you to plan around what you got. You weren't wondering what your day was going to be like and when you'd get to do things. All they had to do to solve the issues you brought up was eliminate the on-site advantage. Or just keep the system as it was but don't allow pre-booking. Lots of options for them which would have retained the benefits of that system. But they didn't do that. They replaced a few easily solvable drawbacks with a system which has created more dissatisfaction than you ever saw under the old system and at a HUGE daily cost for people. What other product that isn't gambling related asks you to pay money for something that you might or might not get depending on your luck? "Give us the money - but we're not promising you'll get ANYTHING in return for it. We're only giving you access to a system that might allow you to get things that work for you". Say what you want about FP+ but you can't come up with an issue with it that wasn't solvable in a far less destructive way than what they did.

My criticism of FP+ has been basically only to point out that it wasn't a system which "worked just fine and it was free." It didn't work just fine and it did have a cost. I think Genie+ as a system creates a more level playing field than FP+ did. That is not to say Genie+ doesn't have significant flaws. It's not even to say that Genie+ is a better experience than FP+ for those who knew how to and were able to use both. I agree with you, it's likely not. But it is a fairer system.

I agree that the capacity clearly isn't there for 50% of people to be using Genie+ at high crowd times. The solution isn't a system which has to try to accommodate literally everyone because it is free. The solution is to make line skipping in general a much more exclusive perk (with a correspondingly high price tag).

Genie+ would work extremely well if only 10% of guests had it. Then you'd be able to get much closer to immediate returns on everything - eliminating the issues with getting a time that doesn't work for your schedule. It would also have much less of an effect on the standby waits if significantly less people were skipping lines.

Disney would not have been struggling nearly as much with any of this if they had never tried to design a system which would see the majority of their guests able to skip lines. That simply isn't realistic no matter what system you're trying to use.

Also, I've thought about whether Genie+ as it is could work if they allowed you to pick your return time, and I think it would work less well. It would have the same problem that purchasing ILLs does which is that if the time you select is no longer available due to too many people trying to select the same time, you have to get bounced to a later time... or you run the risk of being blocked out of any time. First available time eliminates that problem - but it's only a problem at all because so many people are trying to book the same ride at the same time. Going back to the much greater problem which is too many people trying to use the system.

That's the fundamental problem with both FP+ and Genie+. Too many people trying to use the system. I cannot see any solutions to that other than 1) offer no line skipping service, 2) offer a very limited capacity line skipping service which is a lottery to get, 3) offer a very limited capacity line skipping service that costs a high enough price that most people will choose not to purchase it. The third option is the only one of those which makes any sense, which is the reason why it is the solution that literally every other non-Disney theme park offers.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

That's the fundamental problem with both FP+ and Genie+. Too many people trying to use the system. I cannot see any solutions to that other than 1) offer no line skipping service, 2) offer a very limited capacity line skipping service which is a lottery to get, 3) offer a very limited capacity line skipping service that costs a high enough price that most people will choose not to purchase it. The third option is the only one of those which makes any sense, which is the reason why it is the solution that literally every other non-Disney theme park offers.

I have been around this with my spouse many times. Ultimately, I think #3 is really the only solution. Either you have nothing, or you offer something at a high enough price to create a class system. Either way, people are going to complain though. You see how many complaints over a small increase that really doesn't have a huge effect on budget.

 

[godfather927]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but does anyone know if there's a site tracking the Genie+ price per day since this changed has been announced?

 

[Kingoglow]

Contrary to what people are saying here, fastpass was not some big secret that only a privileged few could hope to discover. It was easy to find info about wirh hardly any research, and easy and intuitive to use with zero training. For all those who say Genie is preferred by first timers, I just can’t see how that could be the case. Those people who weren’t capable of figuring out FP+ was an option and waited in standby all day are still going to be clueless and wait in standby all day. Now they will just be joined by all the people who can’t fit G+ in their budget too.

I totally agree with you. Some posters are acting like people are not googling any information about their first Disney trip, which is absurd. Of course most of them are googling about it, or have a travel agent that tells them.

Are you telling me all those try-hard moms are out there listening to must-do Stacies (my term for all Disney influencers) about how to make your Disney trip the best for your kids, and know which rides to hit, but mom never hard one word about Fastpass+? Please....

I do not believe for a second people are not researching their vacations. Imagine going to Europe without researching places, dates, times, hotels or the language. Are you just showing up and hoping for the best for your thousands of dollars?

 

[lowlight]

Check out the standby lines this week. Just as bad as they ever were. You were hitting 2 hour waits on a bunch of rides. I've been going for decades. You were not seeing many 3 hour waits other than rides like Avatar and Slinky when they first opened. And even then - those times reduced during the day. Genie+ is not having an appreciable different in standby times. The lines this week - in the middle of October - not even T'giving or Xmas season are showing equal or greater standbys.




And they still do not have the ability to do it now. But now you get to pay $100 per day extra for an average size family to roll the dice and hope you can get some meaningful ones. And if you can't get stuff that works for you and you want to do a different park instead - nope! That video cherrypicks so much it's comical. It assumes you needed to take a sledgehammer to a system rather than tweak it. And there are FAR more issues with Genie+ on aggregate.



But it does. And I'd say far more. Genie+ only doesn't affect you if you are willing to just do whatever they give you. Want to take a mid-day break - tough! (unless you basically want to forego using Genie+ to full advantage). Arrive late? Tough. Sleep in? Tough. Want the ability to plan some rides so you're not criss-crossing the park all day? Tough. It benefits those who have absolutely no restrictions on their day and do not care how it gets scheduled. FP+ allowed you to plan around what you got. You weren't wondering what your day was going to be like and when you'd get to do things. All they had to do to solve the issues you brought up was eliminate the on-site advantage. Or just keep the system as it was but don't allow pre-booking. Lots of options for them which would have retained the benefits of that system. But they didn't do that. They replaced a few easily solvable drawbacks with a system which has created more dissatisfaction than you ever saw under the old system and at a HUGE daily cost for people. What other product that isn't gambling related asks you to pay money for something that you might or might not get depending on your luck? "Give us the money - but we're not promising you'll get ANYTHING in return for it. We're only giving you access to a system that might allow you to get things that work for you". Say what you want about FP+ but you can't come up with an issue with it that wasn't solvable in a far less destructive way than what they did.

This post x100. People have already forgotten what life was like pre Genie+ and ILL. You cannot compare something free to something that costs a LOT of money and doesn’t guarantee anything. I used Genie+ in January and got barely anything out of it in DHS, nothing in Epcot, and only a little better in MK. And I paid for it. Have people already forgotten that Disney “revised expectations” saying you may get up to 3 rides for Genie+ because it was performing so poorly? Something that doesn’t work well and is free and something that doesn’t work well and costs a lot of money is not comparable. It’s fine to say both stink, but you can’t compare them.

For the people who are flexible, Genie+ can work very well. For everyone else, for example those with kids, elderly travelers, those with ADRs and experiences, those who don’t open and close parks or rope drop, Genie+ likely sucks for them. And they pay for it to suck. More than all of the price increases at Disney, Genie+ is the least palatable and most offensive to date.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I totally agree with you. Some posters are acting like people are not googling any information about their first Disney trip, which is absurd. Of course most of them are googling about it, or have a travel agent that tells them.

Are you telling me all those try-hard moms are out there listening to must-do Stacies (my term for all Disney influencers) about how to make your Disney trip the best for your kids, and know which rides to hit, but mom never hard one word about Fastpass+? Please....

I do not believe for a second people are not researching their vacations. Imagine going to Europe without researching places, dates, times, hotels or the language. Are you just showing up and hoping for the best for your thousands of dollars?

I agree that most people do research for their trips but you'd be surprised at how many don't. I'm in a Disney Facebook group that has hundreds of thousands of members and I see posts every day from people that didn't know that you need park reservations or that you need to make dining reservations. Many don't know what Genie+ is either.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I totally agree with you. Some posters are acting like people are not googling any information about their first Disney trip, which is absurd. Of course most of them are googling about it, or have a travel agent that tells them.

Are you telling me all those try-hard moms are out there listening to must-do Stacies (my term for all Disney influencers) about how to make your Disney trip the best for your kids, and know which rides to hit, but mom never hard one word about Fastpass+? Please....

I do not believe for a second people are not researching their vacations. Imagine going to Europe without researching places, dates, times, hotels or the language. Are you just showing up and hoping for the best for your thousands of dollars?

I agree it's absurd to not research even just a bit about your vacations but you might want to do some digging around on the DIS because countless threads on countless stories. It's unfortunate you don't believe for a second people don't do research because that's one of the most prevalent things I have read on the DIS since joining in 2015 that people cannot believe how many other people aren't doing research for a Disney trip. From relatives to neighbors to coworkers, etc seems like everyone has a story on someone who just flew by the seat of their pants.

No one is acting like anything because all you have to do is research ahem sorry I mean read the DIS. Plus there's been enough stories in the news about some unfortunate soul who flew from the UK to WDW didn't get park reservations and now was shut out (outliers in the news but not exactly out of the probability for people to do enough times)

Keep in mind what you're talking about would be a specific type of person. Not everyone is a mommy blogger.

 

[snikki]

I do not believe for a second people are not researching their vacations. Imagine going to Europe without researching places, dates, times, hotels or the language. Are you just showing up and hoping for the best for your thousands of dollars?

You'd be surprised. Most people I know don't do week long trips to Disney. They go to Florida (Orlando area) for a week and decide what they'll do when they get there. I know plenty of people who want to show up and buy a ticket and walk into the MK. I've known people who have bought the DDP and complained that they couldn't eat anywhere because they didn't make ADRs.

Heck even my own cousins went last year and I had to reiterate to them about 13 times to make a park reservation and buy tickets. And that they had to wear a mask outdoors. You know what happened? They went to Florida for a week, had two day tickets but only made it to the parks for one day because they didn't make a park reservation the other day because they wanted "to see how they felt and decide which park that day." During Spring Break. And then complained about how ridiculous Disney was to make him wear a mask outdoors. They disliked Disney but had fun at Gatorland and SeaWorld.

I'm in NJ. Lots of people go to WDW around here. I just listen to people who are planning and will give a bit of advice but you can quickly tell who doesn't want the advice or who thinks I'm nuts so I usually don't say anything unless asked. I have Disney pics on my desk. They know I go so if they want advice they can ask.

 

[Kingoglow]

I agree that most people do research for their trips but you'd be surprised at how many don't. I'm in a Disney Facebook group that has hundreds of thousands of members and I see posts every day from people that didn't know that you need park reservations or that you need to make dining reservations. Many don't know what Genie+ is either.

I can see that it could happen to a much much older demographic (think grandma and great-grandma), but Millineals and GenZ will have already watched several youtubers, read reddit and probably have seen those FB posts. They would know and they would research. The current generations are too plugged in not to look for this stuff.

These are the people that are going; these are the people that have the families that products like this are (theoretically) designed to help. Watch those youtube videos, and instagrams and tik toc's, and watch the videos here on the DIS. You can see who is going to the parks, who is making these videos. The content creators audience is a younger demographic. All of this is easily accessible to the current generation and they are actively researching and learning all these tips.

Maybe grandma and great-grandma aren't out there learning about the in's and out's of Disney, but this isn't their Disney anymore. Its for parents with young kids; parents that are more plugged in.

Editing to say: I recognize that there are outliers in my arguments. We are talking about wide swaths of demographics; of course I understand that there are people that miss something. I would say that number is lower than those that are doing the research.

 

[DCLMP]

no discounts, I can guarantee.

International travelers, that used to make 20% of WDW guests, have barely returned flying. I know several people that are still waiting to go back to WDW (covid, vaccine requirements, etc...)

By the time Americans are maybe going less to Disney, you will see a HUGE influx of foreign travelers coming back.

Not with the Euro, yen and pound and every other currency devaluing. Most of them are just worried about how to pay their heating bill this winter. Don't expect European travel to pick up anytime soon. If you think the economy is going to get bad here look at whats going on around the world. Last go around we had banks defaulting this time it might be whole countries.

 

[cakebaker]

So what does everyone think will happen to Genie+ once the recession and “revenge travel” finally merge? After 9/11, Disney had to offer deep discounts on rooms, ticket packages, FP+ changes, 3am
EMHs etc.

Is it feasible to think that as a family, we could hold off on another trip for 2-3 years and ride out this tide? Could they potentially throw Genie+ into an onsite resort stay or include one-two $ILL with a resort stay based on the length of nights?! I wasn’t a Disney goer until just a few years ago, so I don’t know how the “going down the rabbit hole of discounts” happened after 9/11. But I just don’t feel like this is sustainable in the long term and I realize no one knows, but someone, somewhere has to be looking at a potential exit strategy once the bubble finally bursts, right?!?

I think eventually we'll see more significant resort discounts. I think the days of perks added to resort stays may be over, but they'll have to do something to justify the prices they charge for resort stays- especially at the Deluxe level. I love the Yacht Club- in no way does anything it offers justify $700 and up a night. For now, people are just happy to be there. They want to recreate what they experienced pre-covid. I know we did. But been there, done that and now I want something that makes me want to shuck out a ridiculous amount of money to stay Deluxe especially.

 

[DCLMP]

So what does everyone think will happen to Genie+ once the recession and “revenge travel” finally merge? After 9/11, Disney had to offer deep discounts on rooms, ticket packages, FP+ changes, 3am
EMHs etc.

Is it feasible to think that as a family, we could hold off on another trip for 2-3 years and ride out this tide? Could they potentially throw Genie+ into an onsite resort stay or include one-two $ILL with a resort stay based on the length of nights?! I wasn’t a Disney goer until just a few years ago, so I don’t know how the “going down the rabbit hole of discounts” happened after 9/11. But I just don’t feel like this is sustainable in the long term and I realize no one knows, but someone, somewhere has to be looking at a potential exit strategy once the bubble finally bursts, right?!?

You may see room discounts come back.

 

[Dulcee]

I can see that it could happen to a much much older demographic (think grandma and great-grandma), but Millineals and GenZ will have already watched several youtubers, read reddit and probably have seen those FB posts. They would know and they would research. The current generations are too plugged in not to look for this stuff.

Join a facebook disney group, the millennials are not all "plugged in" on this. I say this fondly, as a millennial myself, we are now very much in our 30s and 40s. Most of us are too busy chasing kids, paying bills, taking care of boomer parents and trying to recession proof our lives to spend anymore time reading up on what you need to do to make your kids vacation magical (present company excluded lol). I have many, many millennial family friends who have come back from disney trips angry and annoyed that their very expensive vacation didn't run nearly as smoothly as the all inclusive experience they thought it would be.

 

[midwestdee]

I can see that it could happen to a much much older demographic (think grandma and great-grandma), but Millineals and GenZ will have already watched several youtubers, read reddit and probably have seen those FB posts. They would know and they would research. The current generations are too plugged in not to look for this stuff.

These are the people that are going; these are the people that have the families that products like this are (theoretically) designed to help. Watch those youtube videos, and instagrams and tik toc's, and watch the videos here on the DIS. You can see who is going to the parks, who is making these videos. The content creators audience is a younger demographic. All of this is easily accessible to the current generation and they are actively researching and learning all these tips.

Maybe grandma and great-grandma aren't out there learning about the in's and out's of Disney, but this isn't their Disney anymore. Its for parents with young kids; parents that are more plugged in.

Editing to say: I recognize that there are outliers in my arguments. We are talking about wide swaths of demographics; of course I understand that there are people that miss something. I would say that number is lower than those that are doing the research.

I beg to differ. This grandma researched Genie+ and approached it like the Normandy Invasion. DD & I totally rocked it for our group. DH was impressed. When we go back, I would definitely suck it up & spend the bucks for Genie+.

 

[SLThomas318]

Join a facebook disney group, the millennials are not all "plugged in" on this. I say this fondly, as a millennial myself, we are now very much in our 30s and 40s. Most of us are too busy chasing kids, paying bills, taking care of boomer parents and trying to recession proof our lives to spend anymore time reading up on what you need to do to make your kids vacation magical (present company excluded lol). I have many, many millennial family friends who have come back from disney trips angry and annoyed that their very expensive vacation didn't run nearly as smoothly as the all inclusive experience they thought it would be.

Def! We took our kids for the first time in 2018 and had an amazing time. It wasn't cheap, but we felt like there was a lot of value. We were hooked and ended up going 3 more times that year. We haven't given up on Disney yet, but I told my husband the other day that I'm not so sure we would have fallen in love with this current version of Disney

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't see it as generational clearly we've heard from people from all walks of life walk in clueless or just not well prepared. Some will suffer yes if they are not connected to the app to begin with. That would be my in-laws who don't have the slightest clue on the app and we're finding out for our cruise next year people who have been cruising with this company for a long time are finding it hard to shift from everything delivered to them to their mail all around the world is now contained within an app that said people who just show up to destinations typically do this for most if not all their vacations and the span all the years you can think of.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Def! We took our kids for the first time in 2018 and had an amazing time. It wasn't cheap, but we felt like there was a lot of value. We were hooked and ended up going 3 more times that year. We haven't given up on Disney yet, but I told my husband the other day that I'm not so sure we would have fallen in love with this current version of Disney

I told my in-laws a few weeks back that that I just don't foresee them going to Disney with us and that it was probably a good thing they skipped the 2017 trip because it's only gotten more and more. They don't really have an issue with the money spent part (whereas we are a bit more money conscious) but rather they would just get fed up with the rules and so on. And TBH it would be a bit taxing on us just trying to explain everything to them especially as we've been several times together my husband and I know our groove. They would rely heavily on us for everything and I know neither of them would want to manage or work with the MDE app.

I don't think Universal would be a place for them either due to the types of rides but I do know they would have a more relaxing time overall there. They had for a few years a Silver Dollar City season pass and again they didn't do a whole ton of rides but there's more shows and demonstrations they can enjoy with a few lower key rides they can do and they didn't fuss with the Trailblazer pass.

 

[Miffy]

So, for all of you who assert that G+ is better for guests because it levels the playing field, do you also think that ADRs should be bookable only the day of the reservation? Just curious, since ADRs still, on this leveling theory, favor those who plan in advance.

I just saw that the price of Minnie ears went up $5. You can't possibly think that WDW did this because too many people were buying Minnie ears and they wanted to make sure there were enough to go around. They did it because they could and because they're raising the prices of everything.