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[ericamanda01]

You're right...

... I could (should) have been more diplomatic... and I am simply outraged at this having happened. I guess my comments were a shade stiffer than they should have been.

Off hand... it's enough to simply say I am sorry to see this sort of thing happen. But - it could have been an electrical short or who wknows what having caused this.

Frankly, I can't quite fantom how they have determined that it WAS a smoker who caused this. So quickly to have found out - and then what are the odds it was a ciggy from that cabin or one tracing a ballistic line above and ahead of the ship one or two distant from the flash point? Yeah, if it was a ciggy then they must have a good idea of who was at fault.

Bottom line - this is a tragic event with unnecessary loss of life. And I maintain, that I consider cigarette smokers to be more likely to be inconsiderate sorts... I find cigarette butts litterred about as if they did not want to use an ash tray or other proper disposal method. And if this is in fact proven to be caused by a cigarette then it is exactly this sort of inconsiderate notion of disposal that led to the fire.

Smokers should be restricted to the rear third or lowest balcony level of the ship or fan tail where if they must flick a cigarette butt into the ocean then it is a little less likely to return to another person's balcony. Of course, an inconsiderate smoker might just smoke in an unauthorized area or decide it's funny to flick their spent cigarette up onto someone elses' veranda!

The insanity of some people never ceases to amaze me. I was on the Carnival Spirit this past Valentines day and I was shocked to discover a vandalized elevator. The interior had gang letters scratched into the wood paneling and a metal trim piece (thick at about 1"x 0.5" cross section) pulled away! I have sailed with my spouse on about 15 cruises and on DCL with 4 voyages for 26 nites on the Magic and NEVER have I seen this sort of nonsense. WHat is the world coming to?

So... once again I am very soprry to have offended you ericamanda01... I meant no ill intent. I am just a little angry over this example of potential inconsideration from another cruising patron. Just like having encountered the vandalized elevator.... that was dissappointing but in a far lessor way.

I know that it is possible to take the soft view that we forgive and move on. I can do that too. No problem. But... has anyone ever seen a cigarette tossed out a window ahead of you at night while driving? Yeah... in California that would be a $1000 fine for litterring if the person were caught... and the driver ahead is doing this intentionally.. not some kind of innocent accident. Yeah - they smoke maybe half a pack a day and might have a clean ash tray in their car?!? That's not exactly neighborly. And has anyone ever seen ciggy butts on the ground? NOT everyone who smokes does this but some people do so... and someone might have caused this accident ... as well as many other fire "accidents". AND... has anyone ever been to a non-smoking room with a ciggy burn in the carpeting? Tossing a bit of regular trash rarely leads to destruction, fire, smoke and possibly loss of life. Not to say I'm a litter bug. But every tossed ciggy that is lit by the road side can lead to a brush fire and potential property damage and or loss of life. That is bad enough to say this is not the best of conduct for all concerned... but a really bad example.

SO - my regrets at offending anyone who smokes. The next time you're with one of your smoking pals and your pal throws a smoldering butt on the ground or leaves it in any inappropriate area - I challenge you to make them pick it up and dispose of it properly. DO that each and every time because the one time it is not done maybe that will be the time a fire is started and someone might get hurt unnecessarily. We should work collectively for the greater common good... and take the smoking where it should go.

TTFN...

Don't give it a second thought. As a smoker I would gladly vote for smoking to be only allowed on odd or even decks. I hate to run into children or non smokers. I feel terrible when a child runs into a smoking area. And I totally understand how you feel about those few unsavory people who feel it's ok to vandalize. It's enough to drive me to scream out loud! It's such a shame that something like this had to happen at all. I feel so badly for all those passengers.

Edit to add: I will gladly tell any smoker littering the ground with their butts to pick them up, just as I would someone who throws trash on the ground.

 

[nutz4dzny]

I am sorry but quite frankly I am surprised that this thread even got this many responses. People love to debate. If I was a Mod I would consider this thread closed!

 

[pppiglet]

So maybe it wasn't an accident.....read this...scary....


From someone on the ship posting to Cruise Critic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I copied this from the Princess site:

I have to tell you all that after reading some of the posts on my thread I am appalled at some of your posts.

Let me set the record straight, it was not a cigarette that probably caused the fire. I spoke to the person who pulled the actual fire alarm and she's been interviewed by police and officials. It looks like someone did this on purpose. The initial fire spread way to rapidly and there was some kind of accelerant on the balcony. They believe in the possiblity that either some through a moltov cocktail or poured liquor over onto the balcony and then threw a cigarette. The fire went from being a small thing to an inferno in a matter of seconds. Staff told me that more went on than we're being told and that it was a serious major fire that spread very quickly. Our sprinklers didn't go off properly and some of the fire doors didn't shut like they were supposed to.

My husband and I were sound asleep and were woken up around 3:10 by banging. I smelled smoke and opened the blinds to see many embers flying onto our suite balcony hitting the wood chairs. Within 1 minute my husband opened the other curtain to now see a wall of fire on our double balcony. The sliding door then cracked in his face and we turned and ran. It took almost 15 minutes from the time the girl pulled the silent alarm to when the alarm came over for everyone to hear. My room was on fire prior to the captain sounding the alarm. There was no time to grab much of anything unless I wanted to risk my life. My cabin was C414 and was smack dab in the middle of the fire where the balconies were even gone.

We made it to our muster station and everyone was terrified. They kept telling people it was okay, but we knew differently from what we had left. It took them 4 hours to complete roll call. They finally gave us some water from the tap and we would turn in our glasses and they would reuse them. We all watched the life boats being lowered. Some of the crew was telling people we would have to abandon the ship. By am when the fire was completely out they had no reason not to bring bottled water and some crackers or rolls for people to eat. The captain kept saying that they were working on opening the restuarants so we could eat and we couldn't care less, we just needed something. One flight down were tons of food sitting. We had one of the crew sleeping on the floor when he was to be working. Some of the crew were eating Mike and Ikes. My daughter almost passed out and even though lots of the crew were outside hanging out, they wouldn't let her get any fresh air by standing by the open doors.
Our friends we were traveling in were in a different muster station and they quickly were given bottled water and had air turned on hours prior to us. Their roll call was done quickly and the entertainment crew that was manning their stations took great care of them. We had elderly people and people with different illnesses to needed help. For those poster who said that the diabetics should have grabbed their stuff, you have no idea what is was like or if they had time. If there was a large fire in your cabin I highly doubt you would have stopped for anything but rather ran for your life.

They allowed us to go back to our cabin and I lost it. One at a time with staff. What was once two sliding doors witha wall inbetween was now
a large gaping hole.
Everything was burnt, wet, and black. There was nothing for us to salvege, nothing. My husband had his pajamas and I had a pair of shorts and shirt on. At no time did the staff on any level and a senior staff should have taken those of us who lost everything and spoken to us to prepare us. They already knew what our staterooms looked like. All afternoon I would have to go back to the pursers desk to see what was going to happen to us only to be told to come back in an hour. On one of my trips I had to endure an idiot in front of me would was pissed and loudly complaing how he had $40 worth of casion chips and it was crazy he had to wait and "they better give me my money back". It was very hard to hear that. At 3 pm I finally took it upon myself to book my own hotel and called in a favor at a hotel that I stayed in in November. I also used the computer to book my own flight home on American Airlines. We felt like we were on our own.
My hair still stinks and I still have soot under my nails and on my feet that no matter how much I scrub it all won't come out. My chest is killing me and I'm still coughing up black crap. Can you imagine what it's like to walk into a hotel and have some guys make a joke how it smells like the hotel is burning down and laugh at us.
__________________

 

[captaincrash]

So... this is absolutely incredible!

Wow... so if this is true then it was NOT a cigarette and actually a criminal act. As I mentioned - how on earth could it have been so extensive if just a flicked ciggy?

Wow... that's all I can say at this point!

 

[dwkwootton]

I just read the report that pppiglet posted from the other board. In addition to the incident might have been intentional, the last sentence in the first paragraph says it all in that the sprinkler system and the fire doors on the ship did not work properly. I had said last night that something didn't seem right about all this and now it looks like the Mel Gibson movie might have been true after all. They tossed out about the most controversial red herring they could think of and managed to avoid the first few days of bad press, knowing that the smoking v non-smoking debate would take over most people's common sense. Very, very smart on their part. Not very nice, but very smart.

 

[greenban]

you are quite correct in your postings, i suppose things got off topic because of people wanting to ban smoking, and the point i was trying to make is people smoke, just like they drink and do other things, and it would not be realistic to expect that to happen, i said before i have severe asthma and bronchritis and i am not for smoking but i accept it is part of our socitey,

You are correct in what the bigger issue is the holding people accountable, i could not have phrased it better.

In my opinion, you are completely mistaken above. From recent laws (all over) smoking is on its way to a complete public ban. Yes it will take years or decades, but the writing is on the wall.

It starts with simple things, like NJ's Seatbelt law, which when introduced was a secondary infraction only, or even NJ's cell phone ban (while driving), but are now primary infractions and ticketable on their own rights.

Likewise, more and more states are banning public smoking, NJ just joined with a restaurant & bar ban!

It is my understanding, that CA disneyland hotels are all smoke free (Don't know about the rest of the state)

The juggernaut (for right or wrong) is moving, Smoking will be banned in all public areas in our lifetimes, and will be 'enjoyed' at home, in the car, or at another smoker's home, or a tobacco shop.

JMHO

-Tony

And lets not forget the real reason of this thread, the tragic & unnecessary loss of life during a 'happy' vacation. My family's prayers go to all involved.

Finally, to the poster who believed a drunk non-smoker decided to take up smoking in the early AM hours, where did they go to buy their smokes, A floating 7-11, steal butts from the non-existant (or existant depending which post you read) ashtrays? Thanks for the chuckle, in this sad thread.

And of course with the latest info, if it was deliberate, was it a 'disturbed perosn', or a planned attack? More scary thoughts to ponder.

 

[HappyLawyer]

In my opinion, you are completely mistaken above. From recent laws (all over) smoking is on its way to a complete public ban. Yes it will take years or decades, but the writing is on the wall.

It starts with simple things, like NJ's Seatbelt law, which when introduced was a secondary infraction only, or even NJ's cell phone ban (while driving), but are now primary infractions and ticketable on their own rights.

Likewise, more and more states are banning public smoking, NJ just joined with a restaurant & bar ban!

It is my understanding, that CA disneyland hotels are all smoke free (Don't know about the rest of the state)

The juggernaut (for right or wrong) is moving, Smoking will be banned in all public areas in our lifetimes, and will be 'enjoyed' at home, in the car, or at another smoker's home, or a tobacco shop.

JMHO

-Tony

And lets not forget the real reason of this thread, the tragic & unnecessary loss of life during a 'happy' vacation. My family's prayers go to all involved.

Finally, to the poster who believed a drunk non-smoker decided to take up smoking in the early AM hours, where did they go to buy their smokes, A floating 7-11, steal butts from the non-existant (or existant depending which post you read) ashtrays? Thanks for the chuckle, in this sad thread.

And of course with the latest info, if it was deliberate, was it a 'disturbed perosn', or a planned attack? More scary thoughts to ponder.

I will just say i disagree, smokers are a large part of the financial aspect, if they ban entirely they will lose a lot of money and in some industries that matters most, not saying life is not as precious but they look at losing their funds. Our country has an issue with smokers, i know some places are doing the ban, but i honestly don't think it will or the idea will be picked up by many industries and enforced.

 

[aprilgail2]

Investigators are saying the fire was the result of a smoldering cigarette.

I hope they can pin it down to the exact room and that person will be charged to the fullest extent of the law and made to answer for his/her actions! That is one thing I think of all the time when staying in hotels...I hope that no idiot goes to sleep with a cegerette in their hands and sets the place on fire!

 

[MousseauMob]

It is my understanding, that CA disneyland hotels are all smoke free (Don't know about the rest of the state)

There are a number of hotels that are going totally smoke free. We're going to Monterey in a few weeks and the Monterey Plaza hotel we're staying at is totally smoke free.

I think it might be easier with less loss of revenue in a hotel, since in a hotel the person can walk outside - but on a ship, where do they go? I guess they could make staterooms smoke free, and just have a designated area with lots of appropriate containers for smoldering butts. I do wonder if this will make the cruise lines think about a change. The loss of revenue from refunds, future discounts, cancellations, and repairing the ship may make them re-think it.

 

[lbgraves]

I am stunned by the latest report. Knowing that anyone can post anything on a message board, I try to read everything with a grain or more of salt. The image this post created is just horrific. If this is true, I hope that they catch the person who did it.

 

[ericamanda01]

Same here. I really hope it was just an accident. I would hate to think that someone this something like this on purpose.

 

[cjsmith]

I was on the cruise ship and can't even begin to tell you what is was like to wake up to our suite balcony being a wall of fire. My husband and I lost everything. I'm now home suffering from smoke inhalation and an infection caused by that. They left us go back to our cabin and where was once 2 sliding doors and a wall was now a large hole without our balcony. Nothing of our survived but we are still here and so are our kids. Our cabin was smack dab in the middle where the balconies are gone. All I can tell you is pay attention to the muster drill.

 

[JDietz40]

I was on the cruise ship and can't even begin to tell you what is was like to wake up to our suite balcony being a wall of fire. My husband and I lost everything. I'm now home suffering from smoke inhalation and an infection caused by that. They left us go back to our cabin and where was once 2 sliding doors and a wall was now a large hole without our balcony. Nothing of our survived but we are still here and so are our kids. Our cabin was smack dab in the middle where the balconies are gone. All I can tell you is pay attention to the muster drill.

I can't even imagine what you must have been going through. We were awaken in the middle of the night for a flase alarm at a hotel several years ago and that was traumatic and it was not even real.


John

 

[Disney-Kim]

I was on the cruise ship and can't even begin to tell you what is was like to wake up to our suite balcony being a wall of fire. My husband and I lost everything. I'm now home suffering from smoke inhalation and an infection caused by that. They left us go back to our cabin and where was once 2 sliding doors and a wall was now a large hole without our balcony. Nothing of our survived but we are still here and so are our kids. Our cabin was smack dab in the middle where the balconies are gone. All I can tell you is pay attention to the muster drill.

I just wanted to say HI and that its nice to see you on the DIS, as I am also a cruise critic member.
So glad your family is safe !!!

 

[kaseyC]

Here is an interesting article with a bit more info about how the fire spread so fast and why it possibly went undetected.

http://cruisemates.com/articles/feature/starfire.cfm

 

[HappyLawyer]

I was on the cruise ship and can't even begin to tell you what is was like to wake up to our suite balcony being a wall of fire. My husband and I lost everything. I'm now home suffering from smoke inhalation and an infection caused by that. They left us go back to our cabin and where was once 2 sliding doors and a wall was now a large hole without our balcony. Nothing of our survived but we are still here and so are our kids. Our cabin was smack dab in the middle where the balconies are gone. All I can tell you is pay attention to the muster drill.

I am really glad that you and your family made it through, at least everything you lost is able to be replaced. Have a safe recovery

 

[Cindi0511]

It always seems that there's much more to the story than is ever released at first. Could the paint have been wet? If it was that flammable to begin with even when dry, I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't have happened before, and often. (And that's not any comment on the smoking/nonsmoking, flying flaming butts, shoulda, woulda, coulda debate.) I have seen smokers before on the Magic, and I can't believe that ALL were conscientious enough to put out the butts properly, especially if there aren't convenient accessories.

There's just something that doesn't quite compute with the stories in the media. Remember, too, that not all of what a reporter writes will fit into the space allotted for that story, and cuts, sometimes DEEP cuts will be made, leaving out some very valuable info. Plus, the TV crews often only get 30-90 seconds for their stories.

To those who were aboard, did they even offer you any clothes? What on earth did you do after it was "offically" over? I'm still sitting here just shaking my head... Amazing.

 

[Cindi0511]

All I can tell you is pay attention to the muster drill.

Yeah, and no matter how much space you need in the closet, DON'T put your lifejackets in a hard-to-reach place, like under the bed. Seconds may be all we ever get. Yikes.

 

[ericamanda01]

CJ, I wish you and you family a speedy recovery.

 

[captaincrash]

Yeah, and no matter how much space you need in the closet, DON'T put your lifejackets in a hard-to-reach place, like under the bed. Seconds may be all we ever get. Yikes.

Maybe on the next sailing I'll sleep with mine on!

LOL... seriously.... this sort of thing is sooo rare. Plus it looks (by rumor) that this was no accident but a deliberate act of vandalism. I do not mean to be insensitive ... this event is a tragedy... but the last time any passenger passed away on cruise ship because of a fire was... in the mid 80s. Last year we had over 10 million passengers alone. Cruising is pretty safe.... while you're on the boat. Life jackets - while important - have not been needed by passengers on a cruise ship in decades to the best of my understanding. AND I'll be the first to say my understanding is fairly limited when considering factual references. FERRY operators in the 3rd world are another matter entirely though. Some of the most horrific losses of life seem to have involved ferries jam packed with passengers and vehicles. I would be reluctant to go anywhere on those sort of ships... with or without life jackets or life boats.

I for one would like to see the authorities find the true cause and ... if any are responsible then we need to corner them and bring them to justice.

A long walk off a short strip of wood would do I think... while at sea of course. Sorry, just kidding... we'd need a judge, jury and all the usual routine.... of course, again.