BREAKING NEWS on CNN: Monorail Accident Kills One IN WDW

[JPN4265]

I disagree. I found her posts informative, emotional, and raw. I find that she is standing up for the driver, she comes from a perspective I dont have.

Your posts sound like you are attacking, and emotional! as well... as mean - as if you are trying to bully her into having the same opinion - or to have her just go away.

to me that is sad. Why why when a tragedy occurs posters have to attack one another.

I stand by my post. This person is making snape judgements before any of the evidence is in.

 

[Geoff_M]

Truth of the matter is the "general public" will probably never know what truly happened, whether it be driver error or monorail error.

The worker fatality will be investigated by the police, as well as OSHA and its Florida counterparts will be all over this. If things are "swept under the rug", Disney will risk steep fines and/or people will go to jail. Just like the BTMRR accident and fatality a few years ago, there will be full reporting along with the details and a cause announced.

 

[ObsessedwiththeMouse]

..

 

[Hollywoodhaha]

What scares me is sometimes people sit in the front of the monorail and it is lucky that noone was on the front!

 

[agnes!]

It is incredibly unfortunate.

I've been reading other message boards and here is what I have heard. Monorail Pink's driver was on the other end of the monorail, Monorail Purple had the CM in it when the "back" of Pink ran into the front of Purple. Apparently Purple was stopped completely, and the driver of Pink didn't notice Purple was there.

It's still not clear to me about whether this happened in the station or just outside of the station and then was pushed in somehow. Clearly the video shows inside the station.

... It is a sad day for us all who love Disney and an even sadder day for the family and friends of the CM and also those who were unfortunate enough to witness it happen.

I'm wondering where the accident took place too. There is that video and a still picture that seem to show the crashed trains in two different places. The Guest video shows the trains inside the Epcot station but I seem to remember seeing a still photo that seems to show the train-wreck outside the station on the beam? Not sure when the still photo was taken as the trains are clearly inside the Epcot station now during the investigation phase.

agnes!

 

[andrewilley]

The monorail should apparently be re-opening for service today, the OSHA having released the system back to WDW control.

Looks like the track switch and reversing off the Epcot line theories are spot on, and WDW have implemented additional verifications of these track switch positions and supplemented the safety procedures and protocols for these operations.

Andre

 

[happygirl]

I never knew there was so many monrail experts in the world. Everytime I'm watch the news the person the talk to is a Monrail expert,

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was talking about when it first happened. Disney didn't release it right away, I'm sure for a reason.

My brother spoke with the deceased driver a few hours before the crash. He is having a hard time with this.

I'm sorry for the grief your brother is experiencing.

With all due respect, why is it that we expect any corporation in the moment of tragedy to immediately do a press release?

I'm sure the reason was that it was 2:00 in the morning. Their first priority was to call 911 (or whatever the Reedy Creek FD equivilant is), check for injuries, extricate the driver and take care of guests. Would Disney have been held in better light if they called the WKMG, WFTV or WESH news hotline so that they could be there to broadcast the events live?

It seems that the news was availalable pretty quickly in relation to the accident and with the shutting down of the entire monorail and the 2 trains still in the station--it seems it would be obvious that the last thing WDW could do was not spill the beans.

The only thing that I would EXPECT at this point from Disney is that they provide grief counseling to their cast members.

I would hope that the conspiracy theorists will simmer down and be patient to allow time for an actual investigation to be completed. It doesn't do Austin any favors and in some cases disrespects him.


And to the person who calls it not an accident, unless one is accusing this to be a deliberate act of man--it is an accident. An accident with fault somewhere--but an accident none the less.

I'm sure that portions of this investigation will certainly be public record and I have no doubt that they will find the cause and remedy procedures so it does not happen again.

 

[FireDancer]

I think it is unfair to assume no investigation is going to happen or that Disney will sweep this under the rug the day after the accident. With a death involved there will be an investigation by the police, the insurance company, and I'm sure by someone hired by the family. Disney may in the end settle and close the settlement but this wouldn't be sweeping it under the rug, this would be a standard accident settlement.

Accidents do happen and I am glad the monorail system will continue to operate. The accident will most likely lead to better safety. It is still much safer to have the monorail operating between MK and EPCOT than having guests drive it. Look at accident statistics. This is the only death in 38 years of operation and while sad it is still an impressive safety record when compared to motor vehicles.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm wondering where the accident took place too. There is that video and a still picture that seem to show the crashed trains in two different places. The Guest video shows the trains inside the Epcot station but I seem to remember seeing a still photo that seems to show the train-wreck outside the station on the beam? Not sure when the still photo was taken as the trains are clearly inside the Epcot station now during the investigation phase.

agnes!

The video shows them inside the station.

I have a theory--that if the reverse theory is correct--that the force of purple train pushed the train into the station further back on the platform. 15mph isn't much, but with the weight of purple--it would be enough force to move a stationary object.

The outside pictures--I'm not sure how those came to be except at some point that they moved the trains to see if they could separate them and then put them back in the station when they could not. (Just a theory!)

But the youtube video was pretty immediate on impact as guests are exiting the train and two men are seen going to check on passengers and then check on the cab. The photo on mouseplanet shows a cast member on top of the cab (I would presume trying to talk to the driver just in case?) and the guy in the black shirt with white stripes is speaking to monorail cast members and pointing at purple.

So the impact had to have been in the station. (The theory is purple was backing up thinking they were getting onto the MK beam and until impact didn't realize they were on the wrong beam.)

Wasn't the still photo outside of the station in daylight.

 

[agnes!]

Here's a link to the picture I was remembering...

WESH says :
[http://www.wesh.com/news/19963457/detail.html]

Video from Chopper 2 on Monday morning showed the trains had been moved from the location of the crash, and there were no other trains visible on the tracks at the time.

I found the photo I was thinking of (the trains on the beam outside of the Epcot station) but ClickOrlando.Com has something similar, as well as that (very raw) Guest video. Go to http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19954891/detail.html and then click on "IMAGES:" to see some pics of the wreck outside the station. From the images I've seen, it looks like there are at least two sources of the "beam-pictures".

I don't want to post any of the actual picture here...don't know why, just don't want to do it.

agnes!

 

[Geoff_M]

I don't think Disney will "sweep things under the rug", but I just don't think the general public will know all that happened and whose fault it truly was.

You can be rest assured that those themes will be the central points of the OSHA report. It's objective will be to find the cause, assign any "fault" (ex. employees violating procedures, lack of needed safety procedures, violations of safety rules/laws, etc.), and prescribe corrective actions to try and prevent the accident from being repeated. Here's the California OSHA report on the 2003 fatal BTMRR accident as an example of the level of detail that will be available to the general public.

 

[diznygirl]

The video shows them inside the station.

I have a theory--that if the reverse theory is correct--that the force of purple train pushed the train into the station further back on the platform. 15mph isn't much, but with the weight of purple--it would be enough force to move a stationary object.

The outside pictures--I'm not sure how those came to be except at some point that they moved the trains to see if they could separate them and then put them back in the station when they could not. (Just a theory!)

But the youtube video was pretty immediate on impact as guests are exiting the train and two men are seen going to check on passengers and then check on the cab. The photo on mouseplanet shows a cast member on top of the cab (I would presume trying to talk to the driver just in case?) and the guy in the black shirt with white stripes is speaking to monorail cast members and pointing at purple.

So the impact had to have been in the station. (The theory is purple was backing up thinking they were getting onto the MK beam and until impact didn't realize they were on the wrong beam.)

Wasn't the still photo outside of the station in daylight.

If you've read any of the news articles, it mentions that the accident happened outside the station, and that they were moved inside to unload the passengers.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-3-070509,0,6944624.story

 

[RadioNate]

I was talking about when it first happened. Disney didn't release it right away, I'm sure for a reason.

My brother spoke with the deceased driver a few hours before the crash. He is having a hard time with this.

One can hope.

I don't think Disney will "sweep things under the rug", but I just don't think the general public will know all that happened and whose fault it truly was.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative at all. My thoughts and prayers do go out to your brother and the entire CM family. But it WAS on the early news out of Miami. That is how I learned of it. I'm sure they picked it up from their Orlando affiliate.

I wasn't in Orlando at the time but it did make local news (and posted on their websites) as early as 7 am. Being on the 1st regular news cast after the incident is pretty good IMO.

Disney didn't need to 'release' anything. There were witnesses, RCID calls, photos and video. That doesn't scream of hiding anything. They waited for information (and yes gathered and consulted with their PR teams and I'm sure upper level execs) and on family notification before releasing a media statement.

The 1st contact I had (from a WDW CM) was at 6:43 am so the word was out by then.

I just don't see any thing out of the ordinary in regards to how WDW handled the incident.

The fact is, a young man is dead and that is horrible and tragic. I'm no monorail expert but I do know what it is like to be working at 2 am after a holiday at WDW. I also know how close the CP and CM family is and my heart breaks for them.

Several ex-monorail pilots have posed theories that if correct, make this incident even more tragic.

 

[Jennasis]

Sorry you were in atrain crash KJJ, but you need to calm down. They are called ACCIDENTS for a reason. You are right, they should never happen, but they do. Nobody has suggested Disney is innocent (if only due to lack of oversight).

Whether we know the truth or not, I am sure steps will be taken to ensure it never happens again. While it is unbelievably tragic that the CM lost his life, at least there weren't more fatalities.

I disagree. I found her posts informative, emotional, and raw. I dont agree with all she posted but I felt that she sounds like she is standing up for the driver, and not taking the news releases from corporate lawyers ... well... never mind.
Your posts sound like you are attacking, and emotional! as well
... as mean - as if you are trying to bully her into having the same opinion - or to have her just go away.

to me that is sad. Why why when a tragedy occurs posters have to attack one another.

Make note of my bolded parts...

I am sorry for the horrendous thing KJJ went through. I can't imagine how traumatic that must have been.

2. I don't see how the second statement is an attack.

3. I AGREED with her...no attack.

4. Explain how I attacked her please.

5. Puhleaze....

 

[walt's assistant]

Shocking, just shocking.

As expected from the media, they have found several former monorail pilots post-MAPO and all seem to be telling the same story...

1) MAPO tested before trains begin their daily treks.
2) Only way two trains can collide is if MAPO is overidden.
3) The impact damage from the collision suggests the train was travelling at the maximum rate of speed allowed by the override.
4) It would have been very difficult for the pilot not to have seen the other train, regardless of the direction of travel.

It is so hard not to jump to conclusions. None of us were there, so we really don't know what happened. But I have a very bad feeling about what the experts will discover.

 

[brunette8706]

From post #136:

I would say that I'm not making assumptions; I'm making educated guesses, having been in a train wreck. I think Disney's statement where they refused to discuss the way the monorail works is the beginning of the sweeping.


For being in a train wreck, let me say that you must have dealt with a very difficult situation, to say the least and that is a tragedy that no one should have to face.

That said, your response reminds me of a situation I witnessed some years ago. A truck driver was driving down an interstate (in his company's truck). Due to poor maintenance on his vehicle, a shackle fell off the rear axle, bounced off the freeway and went through the windshield of the car behind. The driver, was not responsible for the maintenance on the truck. Yet, he was driving, thus, by law, responsible. The driver that was struck was killed. Upon stopping, the driver of the truck, who was as distraught as the victim's wife (who was sitting next to him in the car), admitted fault and pleaded with the woman to forgive him stating: "I am so sorry this happened". Long story short, she got an attorney and sued the guy for everything he had and she won. The key to the case, was the drivers admission of guilt at the scene of the accident. So, by being a stand up guy and feeling compassion for someone, he lost pretty much everything he had because he consoled a victim of an unfortunate accident that he was a part.

It would be irresponsible of Disney, or any party of an accident, to disclose every detail prior to knowing the facts. "Sweeping it under the rug"?? Disney is too large for them to hide the truth here. It will come out. But at the end of the day, it will probably be due to human failure and with some ideas already posted, seems that it could be a small error that had tragic consequences.

With all that's at stake, and just in general, for Disney to respond to this in any way other than how they have, would be in bad judgment. They are not sweeping it under the rug, only releasing facts as they are known.

I hardly believe, that anyone at Disney takes this whole thing with anything but the utmost grief and sympathy for the family. The same as all of us fans of Disney do as well.

 

[walt's assistant]

Disney World will reopen monorail -- with extra safety features

Posted at 10:30am ET..."The collision occurred as one of the trains was being transferred off the system's Epcot line, which ferries guests between the Magic Kingdom and Epcot".

There is a spur that connects the Epcot line to the express line. The express line is the one that accesses the spur to the monorail shop (garage).

 

[RadioNate]

Facebook Group dedicated to Austin

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=100203833438&ref=mf

 

[RadioNate]

Disney World will reopen monorail -- with extra safety features

Posted at 10:30am ET..."The collision occurred as one of the trains was being transferred off the system's Epcot line, which ferries guests between the Magic Kingdom and Epcot".

I just saw that too. Seems the backing up while transferring lines theory that so many blogs posted (supported by former monorail pilots) seems to be confirmed by WDW internal memo.