Boys in the Girls Bathroom?

[hentob]

So, let this debate go on, i guess but nothing anyone says will ever make me change my mind...
__________________
well, until Disney does like the YMCA at it's locker and restrooms: completely prohibits it and points you toward the family restrooms and lockerrooms





You people are nuts. Your child will not be raped, murdered etc in the 3 minutes it takes them to use the bathroom in a DISNEY PARK!!!!!!!!!!!! WITH YOU STANDING OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cutoff? Starting to get a little creepy at age 7.


Entitledment mentality: "I am entitled to bring my child into this bathroom because I am too lazy to go find the family restroom."

It is too "our restroom"-- thats why it has a labelled door. Duh. Freaks.

I asume you people are from some popualtion: 300 people-type town if you think your 10 year old is in danger in DISNEYWORLD!

An excerpt of an article from Salon.com(I think it is from 1998, so I am sure more of these tragic events have occured since then):::::


The 1997 case of Sherrice Iverson, a 10-year-old who was molested and choked to death in the restroom of a Nevada casino. Jeremy Strohmeyer, 19, of Long Beach, Calif., pleaded guilty and was sentenced in October to life in prison. He killed Sherrice after luring her into the bathroom with a game of hide-and-seek. (You can donate to a memorial fund for Sherrice at www.iverson.org.)

In 1996, a Kansas City, Kan., man was hunted by police because he was molesting girls who entered public restrooms alone. His first victims were molested at a bowling center; he subsequently attacked a girl in a Catholic church recreational center after a basketball game.

This April, the Orange County Library System in Orlando, Fla., agreed to spend $1 million to move its children's departments to more visible areas of the library buildings. Part of the plan requires that no adults be allowed into the children's section restrooms unless accompanied by children. Local police report one call a month to check out victimless sex crimes in the libraries' public restrooms or book stacks.

Last year, a man was tracked by police after he sexually assaulted at least two boys in Los Angeles McDonald's restaurants. In the second case, the assault was interrupted after the boy's mother called his name and knocked on the door. The man was caught on videotape as he rushed out of the bathroom, brushing the mother aside.

And two weeks ago, on Nov. 14, 9-year-old Matthew Cecchi was murdered by a 20-year-old transient in a Southern California beachside bathroom while attending a family reunion. Matthew's murderer, who was arrested within minutes after running out of the bathroom where Matthew was bleeding to death, his throat slashed from ear to ear, confessed that he was looking for an easily subdued victim when he settled on Matthew; the circumstances of the killing -- considered murder by ambush and torture -- may lead prosecutors to seek the death penalty. At Matthew's funeral last week in the Northern California town of Oroville, one mourner had to be helped out of the church as she wailed uncontrollably: It was Matthew's aunt, who had escorted him to the Oceanside Harbor beach bathroom and then waited outside the door to ensure his safety.





AllyCaptTapia:: It is one thing to debate (I love a good debate ), it is another thing to rage. You are out of control. Almost always. You seem so angry. Why? Why can't you get your point across in an educated manner? Why are you always calling people names? "Duh. Nuts. Freaks"...and that was in just one of your posts.

You posted this today on another thread::

Ugh, when I see a 10 year old boy in the bathroom next to my five year old girl- i am gonna 1) puke 2)scream 3) embarrass the hell out of the kid and his overprotective parents

You would actually try to hurt the feelings of a 10 year old?



And you work with children

 

[Evil Queen]

I saw a special on Dateline or the like recently about how many people ignored children and adults that were invovled in dangerous situations (i.e. bullying, harrassment, pushing, etc.). I like the "yell fire" thing. I should teach DS that. Thanks for the tip

My pleasure. Anything to bring attention to someone who needs it and quick.

I for one must admit, I'd PROBABLY (never been faced with it-can't say for sure) run quicker to anyone, child or adult yelling fire than help. Sad, I know, but stats normally say the same for everyone.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

An excerpt of an article from Salon.com(I think it is from 1998, so I am sure more of these tragic events have occured since then):::::


The 1997 case of Sherrice Iverson, a 10-year-old who was molested and choked to death in the restroom of a Nevada casino. Jeremy Strohmeyer, 19, of Long Beach, Calif., pleaded guilty and was sentenced in October to life in prison. He killed Sherrice after luring her into the bathroom with a game of hide-and-seek. (You can donate to a memorial fund for Sherrice at www.iverson.org.)

In 1996, a Kansas City, Kan., man was hunted by police because he was molesting girls who entered public restrooms alone. His first victims were molested at a bowling center; he subsequently attacked a girl in a Catholic church recreational center after a basketball game.

This April, the Orange County Library System in Orlando, Fla., agreed to spend $1 million to move its children's departments to more visible areas of the library buildings. Part of the plan requires that no adults be allowed into the children's section restrooms unless accompanied by children. Local police report one call a month to check out victimless sex crimes in the libraries' public restrooms or book stacks.

Last year, a man was tracked by police after he sexually assaulted at least two boys in Los Angeles McDonald's restaurants. In the second case, the assault was interrupted after the boy's mother called his name and knocked on the door. The man was caught on videotape as he rushed out of the bathroom, brushing the mother aside.

And two weeks ago, on Nov. 14, 9-year-old Matthew Cecchi was murdered by a 20-year-old transient in a Southern California beachside bathroom while attending a family reunion. Matthew's murderer, who was arrested within minutes after running out of the bathroom where Matthew was bleeding to death, his throat slashed from ear to ear, confessed that he was looking for an easily subdued victim when he settled on Matthew; the circumstances of the killing -- considered murder by ambush and torture -- may lead prosecutors to seek the death penalty. At Matthew's funeral last week in the Northern California town of Oroville, one mourner had to be helped out of the church as she wailed uncontrollably: It was Matthew's aunt, who had escorted him to the Oceanside Harbor beach bathroom and then waited outside the door to ensure his safety.





AllyCaptTapia:: It is one thing to debate (I love a good debate ), it is another thing to rage. You are out of control. Almost always. You seem so angry. Why? Why can't you get your point across in an educated manner? Why are you always calling people names? "Duh. Nuts. Freaks"...and that was in just one of your posts.


And you work with children

This is tragic and sad. As an aunt to a Matthew myself, it hit me hard.

First, I want to say that as the child of overprotective parents, I have finally in the past few years as a teacher begun appreciating them. I've had to deal with abusive parents, parents who are missing, drug addicts, completely absorbed with bf's/gf's, those who kick kids out of their house, those who leave kids alone all day, let them wander the streets, etc. and then flip out and kick the kids out when they get pregnant or arrested or end up in rehab at age 15. Parents let 16 and 17 year olds rent hotel rooms down the shore for the weekend or in some cases the week after prom- alone. (PS I doubt they play Candy Land all week)

I just want to say that I myself finally learned that parents are overprotective because they love their kids and want what's best for them. That doesn't always mean that their decisions are the best, but they are well intentioned. I think that these bathroom moms fit into this category. I think kids in general could use a little more protection.

I just have to wonder- where's the line between protective and overprotective? When can kids go to the bathroom alone? When can kids walk to a friend's house alone? When can kids go to a dance alone? When can kids stay home alone? When can kids go on vacation with friends? When can they move out and live on their own?

It all has to happen eventually, and unfortunately no matter when it happens, some tragedies will happen because there are evil people in this world. A 9 year old in a bathroom or a 90 year old woman can become a victim. A 10 year old walking home from school and a 30 year old walking home from work can become a victim. Look at Natalee Holloway- she went off alone on a family vacation- she was 18. There was a boy killed from my college a few months ago. He was 18. A honeymooning man was killed on a cruise ship. He was almost 30. Imette S. was out at a club and was brutally killed her last year in college. My dad's coworker's sister was raped and killed in a grocery store parking lot ten years ago.

Now many of these cases involved alcohol, or people in darkly lit areas without anyone nearby, but not all. I guess the best we can do is to be prepared for the worst without living a life in fear. I know my mom's anxiety/overprotection made me afraid to drive, afraid to do a lot of things, which isn't the best way to live.

I just wish I had been more confident/prepared for life instead of being told "You can't ride the subway alone. What if you get attacked?" (at age 21 P.S.) You just can't live life by "What if?" It's such a fine line. I applaud parents who try their best, because who knows where to draw it?

 

[robinb]

This is tragic and sad. As an aunt to a Matthew myself, it hit me hard.

I am very sorry for your family's loss .

I just want to say that I myself finally learned that parents are overprotective because they love their kids and want what's best for them. That doesn't always mean that their decisions are the best, but they are well intentioned. I think that these bathroom moms fit into this category. I think kids in general could use a little more protection.

I agree with your assessment of overprotective parents. They really do love their children and want the best for them. I *know* the mothers who bring their 9, 10 and 11 year old boys into the bathroom really are concerned for their safety and it makes them more comfortable around a group of women than men.

I just have to wonder- where's the line between protective and overprotective? When can kids go to the bathroom alone? When can kids walk to a friend's house alone? When can kids go to a dance alone? When can kids stay home alone? When can kids go on vacation with friends? When can they move out and live on their own?

It all has to happen eventually, and unfortunately no matter when it happens, some tragedies will happen because there are evil people in this world.

Yes, a very small percentage of children do become victims. No matter what measures we parents take to protect our children. I think that the image of the Pervert Boogie Man is a strong one in our society. That Boogie Man is fueled by the media ("If it bleeds, it leads") and some parents protective instinct is fed by the stories until the fear becomes almost irrational.

As for WDW bathrooms (not Truck Stops, for Pete's sake!) I think that children as young as 9 years old are perfectly safe being alone. I am not naive enough to believe that there are not creeps in WDW. Of course there are. There is a small percentage of pedophiles in any population. However by 9 a child understand "stranger danger" enough to yell and carry on if something happens. In addition, there are too many people in and out of a WDW bathroom that any of the possible scenarios of doom just won't happen. A child won't be snatched from inside a men's room. They won't be snatched from outside a women's room. They won't be overpowered and dragged into a stall and a man cannot ********** at the urinal looking at boys' *****es. There are plenty of men and women going in and out all the time, the vast majority of them parents, and if there is anything a predator hates it's an audience.

I know that I will not change the minds of the "Better Safe Than Sorry" set. They are too afraid by the stories of the Pervert Boogie Man to allow their kids out of their sight. I just want to make a point for those of us who worry about the things that can actually happen (like a 7 year old who wanders off and gets lost) and not a litany of "what ifs?" that paralyses some parents. I love my daughter and am concerned about her safely as much as they are concerned about their own children. Lastly, I am not a bad parent for not buying into the media's Pervert Boogie Man who lurks in every bathroom stall.

 

[Mariposa]

Okay, I completely agree with the idea of protecting your children.. but my request would be this, if you bring your son into the bathroom with you, please take him into the stall with you. Simply put, you can keep a better eye on him there and limit everyone else's embarassment. He's going to be embarassed either way, I'd rather the only other person who has to have any involvement be his Mom (who, in all fairness, chose to bring him in there). If he's truly too old to come in the stall with you, you might consider letting him wait outside. I know it sounds bad, but it will be no worse for him to face the door in the stall than to stand directly outside it, and the only other person who'll have to know he's there (for the most part) will be his mother.

I know, personally, my DD8 would be MORTIFIED if there was a 9 year old boy standing out in the open in the bathroom. She'd REFUSE to go. And I get where she's coming from on that, there are certain expectations she has when she enters a Ladies' Room and coming face-to-face with a boy her age or older isn't one of them, so it would put her off-balance a bit, so to speak.

Just for general info purposes, I let my daughter begin using the restroom by herself when she was 7 or so. I wait at the door. If I have to go, I go in with her, but don't if I don't need to. Also, I'm an extremely loving and involved mother- so, it's not that I just don't care about her safety.

 

[Mariposa]

Yes, a very small percentage of children do become victims. No matter what measures we parents take to protect our children. I think that the image of the Pervert Boogie Man is a strong one in our society. That Boogie Man is fueled by the media ("If it bleeds, it leads") and some parents protective instinct is fed by the stories until the fear becomes almost irrational.

I agree. Anytime I see a major news story like this, I have the same initial reaction any parent would, I believe. I become very sad and angry and think about how I shouldn't let DD do _________ activity again, because it's not safe anymore. BUT, then I remind myself that the reason I'm seeing this on the national news and the reason the story will run for days on the crawlers on the news networks is because it happens SO INCREDIBLY RARELY. Yes, of course you should take normal precautions and NO ONE is saying very small children should be banned from other sex bathrooms.. but what some people here are saying is that guarding from some of these situations is near impossible, and that SOME (not here necessarily) parents can do more harm than good for their kids with the fear that they may instill-- or that they may seem to disregard other people out of a sense of what is panic over something that really, honestly, is NOT going to happen.

Off topic: My other concern over this kind of panic is that it puts emphasis on something that's not, comparatively, a considerable threat (stranger abduction or molestation) while passing over very real situations that most victimized kids find themselves in. I know we focused very heavily on what happens if a stranger talks to you or tries to touch you- and then when something happened to DD it was from our closest family friend, the only person allowed alone with DD other than me, her father and my sister. I know this is seriously off-topic and that all the parents here, I'm sure, are protective in all ways.. I just worry that some parents miss the proverbial forest for the trees. (I will say that we taught DD well regarding these situations as well, and she told us very shortly afterwards.)

 

[Evil Queen]

In my way of thinking, my 10 year old will use the mens room at Disney, I refuse to smother him.

I'm a good Mom (his grades, his good heart, and kindness show some of this). He knows the safety issues, and I'd be the first one in a Disney (or anywhere if I allow him to use another restroom) men's room to save him.

We talked alot about this subject and the subject of buses today. Has anyone done that? To see how your kids feel about what "we" are asking of them?

The bus subject is for a different thread, but....

"Mom, you have taught me well, what to yell to get attention if I am confronted, please don't make me face a restroom full of woman, especially girls to use the restroom."

So, he will use the men's room (he always has-but we both go into gender appropriate restrooms) at the same time, and but NOW when he's finished he will stand in the "foyer" ( between the entrance and actual stalls), while I pee, etc. he will not have face to faces, I won't have to hear women be upset with this, and I am teaching him that, it's not a big scary world for all of us.

This way I am the "perfect Disney Mom who loves her kid", but also the "I care about other woman and girls of WDW".

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I take my DS with me all the time. He is 3 now but last year we were somewhere and as kids do, he peeked under the door. I didn't realize he was doing this until the lady next to me started yelling "he's looking, he's looking make him stop". I couldn't help it but burst out laughing and said 'yea but he doesn't know what he's looking at anyway lady". She was in her late 50s - 60s. Sorry but seriously at 2 he wouldn't get the difference between Pam Anderson or Oprah in the bathroom.

I don't care if you need to take him in.

I also don't care how hold he is. Laughing was wrong and his age has nothing to do with teaching him courtesy.

I would have been mortified if my child was doing that and they are girls.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What do the single or, alone at that particular time, Dad's do if they have daughters?

Not debating. I've answered on this thread. My DS10 has been using Disney bathrooms by himself and we meet outside the doors, when we are done, since he was 8. But I'm ok with the Mom's who do bring their sons in.

Also, can I ask something? What would be everyone's opinion of older boys, 12, 13 or even older going into the restroom's with their Mom's. Would that change the way of thinking? Only reason, I ask (and like I said earlier we don't worry about this anymore), my DS10 is tall and looks more like 12 or 13. This isn't the reason he started going himself, while I would be in the ladies room, he just knows the safety rules, etc and I do trust him using WDW bathrooms more than any other restroom anywhere, except for home.

12 or 13 is puberty.
I'm sorry but at that age--they don't belong in a women's restroom.

If your son hasn't hit puberty yet--I guess others can deal as long as he is respectful.

ETA: After I finished reading the thread I did post below that 10 is too old. Yes that is contrary to this post-but that is my feeling.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

For the poster who said the child was crawling around the stalls like a lizard, I can understand your feelings of not thinking it is appropriate for an older child based on this experience. However, as you said yourself, you don't have children and therefore don't have the mindset that us as parents do in protecting our children.

ducklite---I'd also add that girls do the same and worse in restrooms, I've had more than one little girl crawl through the stall, though not at WDW, and some who just stare thru the cracks in the door regardless of what is said to them. Privacy means privacy, no matter the sex of the child and it is poor parenting if your child doesn't use "bathroom etiquette".

Well I have kids and they know not to peek.

And I do not hesitate to let a child know they should not be doing that. I don't even ask the parents to let them stop.

It is RUDE and inconsiderate.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination an exhibitionist and I will not tolerate that behavior from anyone.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know, and the funny thing is they are "companion bathrooms" not "handicapped only" bathrooms. And "handicap accessible" is not the same thing as "handicapped only". If handicapped people are having to wait, then WDW needs to change the signage. Until it says "handicapped only" I'm using it. (provided there is not a handicapped person waiting - in which case I would definately wait for them)

MTE.

Until recently I didn't even let my kid go in a stall alone--so my whole brood went into the large stall together.

If a boy can be tolerated in a bathroom---then 5 minutes can be tolerated of me using any stall that my family fits in so that I can keep my family safe.

And what about locations where there are only TWO choices? I'm not going to wait while Jane Doe is doing whatever business she is doing in the off chance that someone might come in and need the big potty.

It is ludicrous to expect that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not to be crass, but I pee fast, and so does my ds. If I needed to use one of these bathrooms, we would not monopolize it for 10 minutes combing our hair, changing clothes, etc. In and out. Sixty seconds. If no one is waiting when we arrive, and we hurry, I think it's fine. But I was told that if someone comes up in a wheelchair they may need every second to avoid an accident...so I guess that makes me insensitive if I still choose to use a companion restroom if needed? I am aware and respectful of the needs of the wheelchair-bound, but I think in some cases I will have to disagree about what is appropriate and what is not regarding the restroom usage. I agree that the signage is vague. If not for the DIS, I would NEVER have realized that the companion restrooms are intended only for the disabled (I'm not convinced that they are, to be honest). I assumed they were for families or anyone else needing a larger stall and/or accommodations for both genders with children over a certain age...disabled or not.

Honestly--I think they were created for just that--those who need companions--including dads with daughters and moms with sons who cannot yet send their children alone in the bathroom.

Do those in wheelchairs who don't have a companion not use these restrooms then?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It doesn't make you insensitive to use something that you absolutely need. But to use those restrooms simply as a convenience is insensitive IMO since you obviously have heard why they are the only option for some people and perhaps that is not the case with your family.

My take on it is this, I'm not in a position to say that I can only use those restrooms because I'm in a wheelchair or have some other mobility or physical issue. I had used them in the past before I knew what their intended purpose was and would completely avoid using them now unless it was absolutely necessary.

When you've spent 30-40 mins inside a cramped & crowded restrooms wrestling wet clothing off someone who is in a wheelchair and wet themselves because they couldn't get into the restroom, it will change your perspective dramatically. I've BTDT in WDW & elsewhere & it is not fun, but it does happens.

For the extra 2 minutes it takes to use a regular restroom, it is worth it to possibly save dignity on the part of a wheelchair user.

You are aware that in some restrooms they place the changing table in that stall for children in diapers.

That could be a 10-15 minute wait.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Entitlement mentality as in: I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because I want to. I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because I feel uncomfortable allowing him to go to the mens' room alone. I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because he is smaller than other 10 year olds.

Me, me, me as in: I don't care what others think or feel about my son being in the womens' bathroom. I don't care if my son is humilated by being in the womens' bathroom. I don't care if a young girl is humiliated while using the womens' bathroom. I am entitled because of the "safety first" red herring. See above.

IMO, there is no way for a 10 year old boy to resepctfully enter a womens' bathroom at Walt Disney World. He simply does not belong there.

Not to mention--isn't a 10yo an adult at Disney world????




10 is too old, I don't care who you are. Be the overprotective mom outside the men's door if necessary. I don't care.

10 is too old for the women's bathroom.

And whoever said that a 10yo isn't pre-pubescent. They are funny.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know that at the school where my child attends, they use the buddy system and go to the bathroom together, and I would imagine the same thing applies to field trips. Safety in numbers. If there is a molestor in the bathroom, it's highly unlikely he is going to approach two boys at the same time.

I'm amazed at how many people are appauled by having someone of the opposite sex in the bathroom. All you are doing is going to the bathroom behind a closed door! It would be one thing if there were no doors on the stalls, but sheesh! Aren't most bathrooms abroad co-ed? I hope none of you travel outside of the US

Not sure but when I went to England and France and Wales--the bathrooms we utilized were single sex.

Also--I don't even like the iddy biddy gaps on the doors when a woman walks by. I like my privacy. I would be mortified to see a grown boy walking by the door.

 

[4chitlins]

I am sorry if I have offened anyone. The main topic of my post was what to do when I went, and if I should bring him in with me. Hearing all of the stories has made up my mind that he is coming in with me. However he can stand by the sinks, trying not to offend anyone, I don't feel safe with leaving my child outside of the restroom. I allow him to go in the men's by himself as long as I am by the door and can hear him or if call his name and have him answer. What worries me the most is him being outside the restroom by himself and with a crowd of people.
Thank all of you for helping me to make up my mind about him going inside with me.
.

I say bring him with you. A happy healthy safe child is more important than somebody's annoyance or embarrasment.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I just would like to add here that everyone has been talking about how busy the bathrooms are but to be quite honest I think I was in about 3 bathrooms that were somewhat busy. The rest had very few people in them. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[welovedis]

You are aware that in some restrooms they place the changing table in that stall for children in diapers.

That could be a 10-15 minute wait.

I am referring to the companion restrooms in that post, not the handicapped stalls in regular restrooms.

 

[welovedis]

Well I have kids and they know not to peek.

And I do not hesitate to let a child know they should not be doing that. I don't even ask the parents to let them stop.

It is RUDE and inconsiderate.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination an exhibitionist and I will not tolerate that behavior from anyone.

That's great that yours know not to peek, unfortunately children of both sexes still do it and it is the parents responsibilty to teach them otherwise. I do speak to the child directly when they are misbehaving, unfortunately, the parents are either unconcerned themselves or not paying attention.

 

[welovedis]

Entitlement mentality as in: I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because I want to. I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because I feel uncomfortable allowing him to go to the mens' room alone. I am entitled to bring my 10 year old son into the womens' bathroom with me because he is smaller than other 10 year olds.

Me, me, me as in: I don't care what others think or feel about my son being in the womens' bathroom. I don't care if my son is humilated by being in the womens' bathroom. I don't care if a young girl is humiliated while using the womens' bathroom. I am entitled because of the "safety first" red herring. See above.

IMO, there is no way for a 10 year old boy to resepctfully enter a womens' bathroom at Walt Disney World. He simply does not belong there.

Well, I hope you won't be there when we are & run into my & DS in a restroom if that becomes necessary. You can't judge a book by its cover and my autistic son is going in with me, not because I feel I'm entitled, but because it is what is required in my situation. And you'd never know why he's there because he would not be "acting autistic" as I've heard from other people. However, he has been carried out of a boy's restroom at school (when we attempted the life skill of going to a gender appropriate restroom) after he was found playing with the toilet water, etc... I'll be happy to give any mom who feels the need to bring her son into that situation the benefit of the doubt.