Boycotting the Oscars

[AustinTink]

So I'll use Star Wars as an example. JJ Abrams wrote and directed. Race was not put into either of those. So casting notices goes out for age range, body types, acting styles whatever. They did not mention race. At no point was it flat out said Finn must only be AA actors. So CD puts out notice and sends several people to see JJ Abrams and the rest of the crew. That is how it should work. However, same situation different movie and it happens that only white actors are seen in the final step. So if the writer never wrote a race, and the director didn't care, who only sent white actors in? It happens and to deny it doesn't would be sticking your head in the sand.

Since you know how it works I imagine you are very familiar with the industry so to deny CDs have anything to do with what type of actor gets through is insane to me. I can guess and be right many times over what kind of actors/actresses certain Tesley and Co CDs will pass through just because I've seen what/who they cast or what notes have come back and know what the "look" is they want.

I'm not denying their input, but so much has been said in the last few days about casting directors when their piece of the puzzle is far smaller than that of the writer/director. Star Wars is a bit different in that this new one was based on original content, not stemming from a book, etc.

A better example would be Gone Girl. The book is commissioned into film and the characters are already fleshed out very carefully by the author Gillian Flynn. They are not going to cast an AA female as Amazing Amy, because her character is already set in stone in the book. The Casting director put out the call for a very specific look and body type for Amy and the end result was pretty spot on. Don't get me started on Ben Affleck, though.

Anyway, my point is when films are based off of books (which a huge percentage are) the characters are most of the time very specific on race, body type, etc. Sure with original screenplays they can and should run the gamut of looks. But where is the original content coming from these days?

 

[asta]

Yes actually in some cases it doesn't matter. Someone can be a different race then their parents. You could also cast a mixed race family or just add in a quick comment about adoption or whatever. Unless the story is about an inherited disease and the struggle about the possibility that the main character has it, it is not out of the realm to imagine that a white and Asian couple could have had a black child through adoption or whatever mix you can imagine.

I am not a writer but putting something like that in a story would be unnecessary to the central story of a movie. I imagine that focus is a primary effort of a writer and explaining extra issues about how people of one race have children of another race is a distraction that takes away from their focus if only for a few minutes. When you are trying to edit your film into a standard movie length why would you want to deal with extra issues like this?

 

[cabanafrau]

I think the call though is if gender or race is not paramount to the role then why say AA or Caucasian or Asian female?

So if a casting direct needs to fill the role of a woman who works at the front desk and becomes a love interest of lead it doesn't need to be a white woman or black woman. However 9 out of 10 people who will be called in for that audition are white women. Most of the time black women are only seen for roles where they want some one ghetto or ratchet.

If it is a club scene why should the extras call say AA or a specific race at all. They could just say club scene actors and actresses ranging in age from blank to blank please submit.

On what basis should they make the decision of who to hire? If it's not a minority chosen is it automatically unfair?

From what I've seen none of the complaints lodged about the Oscar nominations say the nominees are undeserving, simply the wrong race or ethnicity. If selections are made strictly on qualifications, quality, etc., why is it so improbable there will be times a slate will tilt any direction? Why does that have to indicate an inherent injustice?

 

[asta]

You wouldn't really need to rewrite the script. Hell if may never even be mentioned and the audience would just assume as such. It isn't the end all that parents race does not match their child.

It is a problem with my logical mind. If that is a fault then I accept it. I understand genetics and know that outside of adoption or mixed race, people of one race do not have children of another. It would be a distraction to see a mismatched genetic issue without an explanation of how. I guess that is why scientists don't often write movies.

 

[AustinTink]

And so it begins. Mark Ruffalo feels like crap about going to the Oscars, even though he made a very important movie and was recognized for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ion=us_entertainment&utm_hp_ref=entertainment

 

[cabanafrau]

And so it begins. Mark Ruffalo feels like crap about going to the Oscars, even though he made a very important movie and was recognized for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ion=us_entertainment&utm_hp_ref=entertainment

Cancel all the awards or give one to everyone.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

I'm not denying their input, but so much has been said in the last few days about casting directors when their piece of the puzzle is far smaller than that of the writer/director. Star Wars is a bit different in that this new one was based on original content, not stemming from a book, etc.

A better example would be Gone Girl. The book is commissioned into film and the characters are already fleshed out very carefully by the author Gillian Flynn. They are not going to cast an AA female as Amazing Amy, because her character is already set in stone in the book. The Casting director put out the call for a very specific look and body type for Amy and the end result was pretty spot on. Don't get me started on Ben Affleck, though.

Anyway, my point is when films are based off of books (which a huge percentage are) the characters are most of the time very specific on race, body type, etc. Sure with original screenplays they can and should run the gamut of looks. But where is the original content coming from these days?

Movies using books as source material have less to do with it than you think. It didn't stop Morgan Freeman getting a best actor nomination for The Shawshank Redemption, widely regarded as one of the greatest movies OF ALL TIME, for his portrayal of an Irishman called Red! And don't forget original screenplays like Aloha which got lambasted (rightfully so, IMO) for casting Emma Stone as a Asian woman.

 

[AustinTink]

Movies using books as source material have less to do with it than you think. It didn't stop Morgan Freeman getting a best actor nomination for The Shawshank Redemption, widely regarded as one of the greatest movies OF ALL TIME, for his portrayal of an Irishman called Red! And don't forget original screenplays like Aloha which got lambasted (rightfully so, IMO) for casting Emma Stone as a Asian woman.

Very true about Shawshank! Kudos to Stephen King for thinking outside the box. Most writers are too selfish and don't allow that much change.

Aloha... I can't even begin with that one. So wrong.

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm not denying their input, but so much has been said in the last few days about casting directors when their piece of the puzzle is far smaller than that of the writer/director. Star Wars is a bit different in that this new one was based on original content, not stemming from a book, etc.

A better example would be Gone Girl. The book is commissioned into film and the characters are already fleshed out very carefully by the author Gillian Flynn. They are not going to cast an AA female as Amazing Amy, because her character is already set in stone in the book. The Casting director put out the call for a very specific look and body type for Amy and the end result was pretty spot on. Don't get me started on Ben Affleck, though.

Anyway, my point is when films are based off of books (which a huge percentage are) the characters are most of the time very specific on race, body type, etc. Sure with original screenplays they can and should run the gamut of looks. But where is the original content coming from these days?

I agree with you. If a film is based off of something where race matters or where physical characteristics have been blatantly lined out then yes it does make sense to cast the person that best fits that. I have not read the gone girl book so don't know if Caucasian was the only way it would fit. For the same token though JK Rowling said with the new HP casting that she never called out Hermione's race and that she technically only has brown eyes, bushy hair, and a know it all attitude for cannon so it is perfectly fine that she be whatever race fits that. So in the films there is a white Hermione and for the stage production coming next year she is at least being played for now by a black woman.

So to the point, yes if race is called out in an existing piece it is usually best to stick with it but if race is not called out specifically it isn't really necessary.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Of course roles are segregated, they have to be. They need actors and actresses that fit the profile of the role they are filling. The ideal of "all ethnicities should be able to fill all roles" is not just impractical, it's an impossible goal to strive for.

Are we going to force the studios to give us a transgendered James Bond? Will we boycott if one of the greatest actors of our time - Peter Dinklage - isn't allowed to audition for the lead role in "The Kobe Bryant Story"?

Why "of course"? If you know anything about the history of theater you would know that Shakespeare always used transgendered actors and he did all right getting his point across. As I mentioned there are times when race is an inherent feature such as in the case of a Othello who is defined as a Moor. However, I submit that it would be irrelevant if the head actress in "Bones" or the lead of 'Bourne Identity' was Asian, Indian or Aftican American. Occasionally it may in fact matter, but that's not what it sounded like to me from what I've read. And while we're on the subject of type I think it's ridiculous that all the women on TV have implants and it's not that there's anything wrong with it but seriously if you look at TV from the 80s women were natural and the world didn't end.

 

[AustinTink]

I agree with you. If a film is based off of something where race matters or where physical characteristics have been blatantly lined out then yes it does make sense to cast the person that best fits that. I have not read the gone girl book so don't know if Caucasian was the only way it would fit. For the same token though JK Rowling said with the new HP casting that she never called our Hermione's race and that she technically only has brown eyes, bushy hair, and a know it all attitude for cannon so it is perfectly fine that she be whatever race fits that. So in the films there is a white Hermione and for the stage production coming next year she is at least being played for now by a black woman.

So to the point, yes if race is called out in an existing piece it is usually best to stick with it but if race is not called out specifically it isn't really necessary.

Gone Girl was very specific. Interesting about JK Rowling and Hermione. That description of Hermione fits every female in my family.

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

While there have been times that certain roles call out for certain a certain ethnicity to play them it seems that white people end up playing roles they shouldn't play:

- Avatar: The Last Airbender for example, the characters in the cartoon are of Asian decent [Southern Asian, Eastern Asian.. etc], when Nickelodeon decided to make it a live action film the main characters were all WHITE. And they couldn't even pronounce the names of the characters correctly. The only time you saw someone who was of Asian decent was when they were extras or the two really evil characters. That movie was awful, and completely whitewashed.
- Lucy: Character was supposed to be of Asian decent
- Aloha: ^
- Peter Pan: Roony Mara who is 100% caucasian played Tiger Lily
- Prince of Persia: The Prince was played by Jake Gyllenhal who is 100% caucasian
- The Lone Ranger: Johnny Depp played a Native American (Toto)

 

[LuvOrlando]

Just an observation, but why does it always seem like it's the AA population that's complaining? I haven't heard of any asian or hispanic actors complaining and I would say that they are much less represented in Hollywood than the AA population. In fact, I can't even think if a famous asian actor unless you count the dad on Fresh Off the Boat or Jackie Chan.

Maybe they just don't have a podium yet. If you've ever spoken with Asian people many of them complain about seething racism but it's not wildly talked about in mainstream media- no idea why that is but I know Hispanic people and they do talk about it. If you pay attention to 'Modern Family' Sophia's character has brought it up

While there have been times that certain roles call out for certain a certain ethnicity to play them it seems that white people end up playing roles they shouldn't play:

- Avatar: The Last Airbender for example, the characters in the cartoon are of Asian decent [Southern Asian, Eastern Asian.. etc], when Nickelodeon decided to make it a live action film the main characters were all WHITE. And they couldn't even pronounce the names of the characters correctly. The only time you saw someone who was of Asian decent was when they were extras or the two really evil characters. That movie was awful, and completely whitewashed.
- Lucy: Character was supposed to be of Asian decent
- Aloha: ^
- Peter Pan: Roony Mara who is 100% caucasian played Tiger Lily
- Prince of Persia: The Prince was played by Jake Gyllenhal who is 100% caucasian
- The Lone Ranger: Johnny Depp played a Native American (Toto)

Oh my, I can't even tell you how confused I was when I was a kid watching David Carradine in "Kung Fu." I remember trying to reason it out with whether not he was adopted and how that fit into the storyline because I knew Asian people and I knew they didn't look like that and didn't sound like him. In all seriousness Hollywood has really really awful track record with this.

** I think Johnny Depp does claim to be part Native American

 

[JoeA]

While there have been times that certain roles call out for certain a certain ethnicity to play them it seems that white people end up playing roles they shouldn't play:

- Avatar: The Last Airbender for example, the characters in the cartoon are of Asian decent [Southern Asian, Eastern Asian.. etc], when Nickelodeon decided to make it a live action film the main characters were all WHITE. And they couldn't even pronounce the names of the characters correctly. The only time you saw someone who was of Asian decent was when they were extras or the two really evil characters. That movie was awful, and completely whitewashed.
- Lucy: Character was supposed to be of Asian decent
- Aloha: ^
- Peter Pan: Roony Mara who is 100% caucasian played Tiger Lily
- Prince of Persia: The Prince was played by Jake Gyllenhal who is 100% caucasian
- The Lone Ranger: Johnny Depp played a Native American (Toto)

What's your point? Come on, we're talking about Hollywood. You know, where people play "pretend" for a living and try as hard as possible to make a very fruitful one at that.

Depp? They didn't "not" cast an Indian because of any bias, rather - they thought Depp had a huge box office draw. BTW - anyone complain because Jack Sparrow wasn't portrayed by a real pirate?

Prince of Persia started filming shortly after Brokeback Mountain and they were looking for box office draw.

Lucy: You guessed it, box office draw from Johansson

Aloha: I think you know where I'm going

The name of the game is nothing more than to put butts in seats!

 

[LuvOrlando]

I think the point is that it's offensive & wrong should be noted and corrected

 

[AustinTink]

What's your point? Come on, we're talking about Hollywood. You know, where people play "pretend" for a living and try as hard as possible to make a very fruitful one at that.

Depp? They didn't "not" cast an Indian because of any bias, rather - they thought Depp had a huge box office draw. BTW - anyone complain because Jack Sparrow wasn't portrayed by a real pirate?

Prince of Persia started filming shortly after Brokeback Mountain and they were looking for box office draw.

Lucy: You guessed it, box office draw from Johansson

Aloha: I think you know where I'm going

The name of the game is nothing more than to put butts in seats!

Yep. It's all about who's the hottest actor in Tinseltown at any given moment. It not as personal as anyone thinks it is, really. So much of it is luck. Will Smith said it himself today. His luck came in the form of Quincy Jones discovering him at a young age.

Listen, my kid wants to go to an Ivy League school. He has an amazing resume and all the qualifications. He probably won't get in because there is just too much competition.

Same goes for Hollywood. There are only so many parts/ awards/ movies being made. Competition is tough. Not everyone wins.

 

[sunshinehighway]

What's your point? Come on, we're talking about Hollywood. You know, where people play "pretend" for a living and try as hard as possible to make a very fruitful one at that.

Depp? They didn't "not" cast an Indian because of any bias, rather - they thought Depp had a huge box office draw. BTW - anyone complain because Jack Sparrow wasn't portrayed by a real pirate?

Prince of Persia started filming shortly after Brokeback Mountain and they were looking for box office draw.

Lucy: You guessed it, box office draw from Johansson

Aloha: I think you know where I'm going

The name of the game is nothing more than to put butts in seats!

I think the point is people are wrong when they say certain characters have to be played by specific ethnicities and/or races to make sense.

 

[LuvOrlando]

But hot to who? Not likely theater goers. So many movies fail miserably losing millions and millions of dollars and yet nobody gets fired and nothing changes. I know because as I said I am an avid moviegoer and there is nothing worse than looking forward to a movie checking on rotten tomatoes to see a big splat mark with 20% or worse. Same goes with network TV they have an endless supply of awful awful programming.

None of this is making the networks etc any money and yet they continue to exist so at some point you have to wonder why and who is benefiting

 

[wilkeliza]

Yep. It's all about who's the hottest actor in Tinseltown at any given moment. It not as personal as anyone thinks it is, really. So much of it is luck. Will Smith said it himself today. His luck came in the form of Quincy Jones discovering him at a young age.

Listen, my kid wants to go to an Ivy League school. He has an amazing resume and all the qualifications. He probably won't get in because there is just too much competition.

Same goes for Hollywood. There are only so many parts/ awards/ movies being made. Competition is tough. Not everyone wins.

I think getting into college is very different than who makes it in the entertainment business. Actually there is an issue with college admissions right now but I won't go into my thoughts on that as I'm sure I'll get more points and get into to trouble. It all boils down to the fact that if race doesn't matter (like say for a college application) then why is it even considered? I always wondered why job applications, college applications, credit card applications etc have race as a question. Does it really matter if your son is Caucasian when he applies for college? Shouldn't it matter more what his grades are, extra curriculars, internships, etc are? A school application isn't the census and there could always be exit reviews from freshman year that ask about race so it never comes into play for admissions.

I get what the previous poster was trying to say but outside of Aloha I don't really think many of them got much publicity over the issues.

For me once you get into fantasy type situations where magic or fantasy is involved race shouldn't be a part of it. Now if you are making a movie about a WASP suburbs in the NE then yes race will probably be a certain way just the way it was with Straight Outta Compton. It wasn't a raciest decision just a reality decision that there were far more of one race than the other in crowd shots etc. However, if you base your t.v. show or movie in Manhattan it is hard to imagine that every single person in an office is a hot white person. It just isn't reality any more. I don't think I'm doing the best at explaining what is the issue. The issue isn't just the big roles but even the little ones.

 

[cabanafrau]

I think the point is people are wrong when they say certain characters have to be played by specific ethnicities and/or races to make sense.

If that's true, it's true across the board and no one should be called out as "wrong" or "inappropriate" for a role, NO ONE. That puts everyone on equal footing, period.