Boycott Discovery Cove and Sea World?

[brergnat]

I was only referring to use for entertainment and theme park shows.

You know, I agree with you here. Not that I would boycott Sea World, but I really don't enjoy the "shows". I recently went to Sea World San Diego with my kids. They are young...preschool age, so I wanted them to see some "real" sea animals, not just see them on television.

I have to say, I hadn't been to Sea World for a LONG time (+15 years), and when I went there, I remembered why. I just don't ENJOY the shows. I think it's sort of weird that a huge crowd gathers and finds it SO funny and interesting to watch dolphins and whales jump through hoops. I just don't get how that's entertaining at all. I sort of felt uneasy watching it, and THANKFULLY, my kids were not amused either. They were totally indifferent to the shows, so we saw two of them (Believe with Shamu, and the dolphin acrobatic show) and that was it. We enjoyed the other exhibits and rides/play areas. My kids haven't asked to go back (this was last summer), and I'm glad. I just found the park to be sort of trashy overall...not what I'm used to visiting Disneyland all the time. And, the "beer gardens"...I don't know. Didn't like it. Too many DRUNK people hooting and hollering at the shows. Just a weird vibe.

To be straight with you, though, MOST of the animals in the shows were BORN in captivity, at Sea World. They have never known their "natural" environment. This is what they do, and what they know. If you tried to let them go free, they'd die pretty quickly.

I do trust that Sea World is very responsible for the care of the animals. That's not where I take issue. Like you, I find it just wrong to get all excited about seeing animals "perform". I find this wrong on EVERY level. I don't like circuses, I don't like pet "stunt shows", I sort of even feel this way about DOG SHOWS. It's just weird to me. These animals wouldn't be doing this stuff if HUMANS didn't make them, and that's what is strange to me.

Animals are wonderful companions, but I think it goes too far when we use them solely for entertainment.

 

[inkkognito]

I was just curious about any animal shows where the animals are doing things that are beyond their natural behaviour to entertain us.

So should I release my horse into the wild because I jump him and jumping is not a natural behavior? I guarantee you he'd be back at the barn door the minute he figured out there are no carrots and grain in the wild.

SeaWorld actually does not make the animals do unnatural things. All of the "tricks" you see are derived from natural behaviors. Also, they never force the animals to perform. My husband loves SW and goes there a lot, and he always laughs about the days when the whales decide not to perform and the trainers have to get up and explain that to the audience. One time, they wouldn't get out of the pool area by the audience when they were supposed to, and one was swimming by the audience and splashing them just for fun.

Don't take this as meaning that I don't "get" what you are saying. In the best of all worlds, animals would be in natural environments. I am disgusted by zoos and other places that keep their animals in small, terrible enclosures where the poor creatures just pace back and forth in misery. No captivity is ideal, but at least places like SW and Disney make an effort to keep things as natural as possible.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I can't see what is so about that question, as it is quite right to ask

I thought it was a very good question and it amused me.

I also believe that the animals in captivity enjoy being challenged, and rewarded. Just like people. My natural place to be is snuggled up in my nice warm bed. But I get up to interact, and for the reward intrinsic and extrinsic.

An animal in the wild is in danger all of the time. Like the manatees. It isn't a wdw existence. Unless we are discussing Bambi. So I don't think that the trade off of food and safety and the opportunity to breed safe and well fed for a few flips in a dolphin pool is a bad trade.

As I said, you are more than welcome to your opinion. this is just mine.

 

[zipuzee]

Keep in mind that the money made from admission goes to taking care of the injured, rescued, sick animals. So if you boycott, they lose money and then there is no one to help the needy. Simplistic in description, perhaps, but thats a basic explanation.

 

[dzorn]

Don't forget the educational value of SW either. When people see wonderful amazing animals (hopefully in as natural an enviroment as possible) it may be easier to persuade people that we need to protect their shrinking natural enviroments.

Denise in MI

 

[Schmoodle]

You know, I agree with you here. Not that I would boycott Sea World, but I really don't enjoy the "shows". I recently went to Sea World San Diego with my kids. They are young...preschool age, so I wanted them to see some "real" sea animals, not just see them on television.

I have to say, I hadn't been to Sea World for a LONG time (+15 years), and when I went there, I remembered why. I just don't ENJOY the shows. I think it's sort of weird that a huge crowd gathers and finds it SO funny and interesting to watch dolphins and whales jump through hoops. I just don't get how that's entertaining at all. I sort of felt uneasy watching it, and THANKFULLY, my kids were not amused either. They were totally indifferent to the shows, so we saw two of them (Believe with Shamu, and the dolphin acrobatic show) and that was it. We enjoyed the other exhibits and rides/play areas. My kids haven't asked to go back (this was last summer), and I'm glad. I just found the park to be sort of trashy overall...not what I'm used to visiting Disneyland all the time. And, the "beer gardens"...I don't know. Didn't like it. Too many DRUNK people hooting and hollering at the shows. Just a weird vibe.

To be straight with you, though, MOST of the animals in the shows were BORN in captivity, at Sea World. They have never known their "natural" environment. This is what they do, and what they know. If you tried to let them go free, they'd die pretty quickly.

I do trust that Sea World is very responsible for the care of the animals. That's not where I take issue. Like you, I find it just wrong to get all excited about seeing animals "perform". I find this wrong on EVERY level. I don't like circuses, I don't like pet "stunt shows", I sort of even feel this way about DOG SHOWS. It's just weird to me. These animals wouldn't be doing this stuff if HUMANS didn't make them, and that's what is strange to me.

Animals are wonderful companions, but I think it goes too far when we use them solely for entertainment.

And I agree with you both. I don't bother worrying about whether it's "right" or "wrong" for zoos, etc. to exist, and I don't judge those that enjoy them. Some of my best friends are zoo-goers! But I've never gotten it. Ever since I was a kid circuses, zoos, etc. just make me uncomfortable. I don't enjoy them at all, so I just don't go to them. My kids must feel the same way because they've never asked to go. They have been, on school trips, but when we are planning a family outing, they never ask to go to the zoo. I didn't want to respond to this thread because I thought it might get ugly, but I was glad to see your posts because I have often felt that I'm the only one that feels this way!

 

[snowbunny]

timben: I think your question is a good one (aside from boycotting, which is a protest technique that maybe is outside your central question).

It's not reasonable compare dolphins, which are federally protected marine mammals, with domesticated animals (most cats, dogs, and horses) that have not been able to survive as wild species for many hundreds of years. A more accurate comparison would be elephants, which live in very close social groups, and are hunted still and used for entertainment.

I am kind of neutral on Sea World. I don't think dolphins, as a species, need Sea World as much as Sea World, Discovery Cove, etc. need dolphins. But as others have pointed out, aside from the theme park aspect, Sea World does help rescue and rehabilitate injured marine mammals and sea turtles.

Best wishes

 

[RabFlmom]

I do not see it cantakerous at all as you are quite right with your questions.
I was wondering the same when I first visited AK. But in some ways I think this solution of an animal exhibit (seems to me) better than an ordinary zoo. That said if it's true what Disney is telling us about.

I was just curious about any animal shows where the animals are doing things that are beyond their natural behaviour to entertain us. Do not get me wrong. I am not a greenpeace activist and I do not want to get rid of zoos. I was just questioning how much responsibility I am willing to take over.

Is also do not want to start any discussions about the difference between pet, horses, cows, and other animals as this clearly would go to far.

Maybe we see things a bit different here in Europe and as English is not my mother tongue I might have used the wrong expressions to make my point clear.

But thank you very much for your answers. I got an impression.

Actually most "tricks" you see the animals do at SW are natural behaviors that SW forms the shows around sometimes in a funny script highlighting the natural behaviors and sometimes just to show the sheer beauty of the movement.

If the animals don't want to do something they never force them to. Also I guess you have never been there when the whales for example do nothing but swim. If they do not want to perform the show stops and they either tell the crowds they are going to wait until Shamu is ready or cancel it.
When a baby is born they stop all shows for a while so the mother, baby, and other whales can adjust etc.
We have been there early for shows and have seen the whales just swimming around decide to splash the people in the front rows. The whales were having fun and kept returning over and over to splash.

When a baby whale is born, the trainers do not really teach the babies how to jump out of the water, splash the crowds,or the 'tricks" of the show they watch their moms and learn from them.

You mention that you are European, My cousins from Denmark visit a park all the time that has been in existence for at least 12 generations. Have you ever been to Knuthenborg? This park with animals from around the world has been a tourist attraction since 1860 or so in Denmark.

 

[bleeps]

When people see animals up close, and feel a connection with them, it motivates them to be more responsible about caring for wildlife. Once people understand their innate connections to all living things, they step up and behave better toward animals in the wild. SeaWorld understands this, Steve Irwin understood it. Is there entertainment and money involved? Yes. Does the net result end up saving more animals? Yes.

All good.

 

[POF]

About 18 years ago - my Mom and I were vacation in seaworld - I was in mid 20's. it was raining that day - and the last thing we were doing was the Shamu show. We went to the arena really early and we wer esitting under the overhang out of the rain. We were probably the only people there.

I wandered down to the pool and was thrilled to peek through the windows at Shamu. he must have been thrilled too - because he jumped up on the platform to look at me more closely.

I jumped back and panicked because ... well.... he was out of the water. His trainer was near by - laughing really hard and proceeded to talk to me a lot about the whales. The sense I had was that they do like the interaction and the shows. ( I also got to pet his tongue .... cool ). Shanus' not the trainers ... get your brains out of the gutter !

 

[MattM]

Sea World saved the animals from what? Their natural environment?

I really do not believe that the Anheuser Bush Company couldn't find any other place to save sea mammals than central Florida, far away from the real sea....

On the other hand what's educational about a dolphin or orca show?

Don't you think the only question remains is, if this form of entertainment can take care of the animals needs and if they are treated right?

Far away from the real sea? You are aware that SeaWorld Orlando is about 40 miles from the Atlantic and 60 from the Gulf of Mexico, right?

And they are particularly known for saving and rehabilitating Manatees in Florida that have been struck by boats. Most of the time, those manatees otherwise would die.

But if you're going to boycott SeaWorld, you'll also have to boycott Epcot and Animal Kingdom.

 

[tony67]

Rabflmom has already said everything I was going to say.

Don't forget that the maker of the documentary will edit things to get their opinion across.

I could name many examples of this, but this is not the place for that type of discussion.

How many of these animals cannot be released into the wild after being saved by humans?
How many have been saved from bad situations?

Why is Animal Kingdom or the Seas in Epcot Ok?
A prison is a prison no matter how nice.
They still have to go to thier cells every night.

 

[timben]

Far away from the real sea?

As we are talking about animals who live in the sea a place at the coast(s) still seems more reasonalbe.

 

[timben]

Rabflmom has already said everything I was going to say.

Don't forget that the maker of the documentary will edit things to get their opinion across.

I could name many examples of this, but this is not the place for that type of discussion.

How many of these animals cannot be released into the wild after being saved by humans?
How many have been saved from bad situations?


Why is Animal Kingdom or the Seas in Epcot Ok?
A prison is a prison no matter how nice.
They still have to go to thier cells every night.

Find the answers to your questions:

Don't forget that also Seaworld Orlando will also use their PR machine to get their opinion across. They live from selling tickets and no one would consider to go to a theme park with a bad reputation.


ANSWER: I had no objection against that. Read my posts clearly, as I was only referring to animals used in the shows and for public amusement. I honor their efforts in saving animals.

ANSWERT I did not say that these are ok. However beeing in a cell / concrete pool waiting for numerous of people to stare and wanting to touch the animals seems worse.

 

[timben]

Dear all,

thank you very much for your answers, despite some comments which seemed a bit rude to me or off the point (release all animals??), I do have the overall impression that the public's trust in private companies telling how good they are seems bigger in the US than here in Europe.

Accepting that and having learned some valuable lessons I want to thank you very much.

Best regards

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

slaaaammmmm, lol. Perhaps we here are more willing to see the good and the bad, and make their choices from that information. Or are less cynical. Or are just more connected to the real information. I know people who have worked in this system. I know the work they do. I understand animal training. I have shown dogs nationally in agility. It is the same concept of taking a natural trait and using it for fun. Same as the animal actors in movies.

Have a great vacation, regardless.

 

[inkkognito]

People try to make it a black and white issue, and it really isn't. I wish that there were no animals in captivity, but that's not realistic. Therefore, I look at what "captivity" means and make my choices accordingly. For example, I would never, ever go to a circus with elephants because of the way they are kept, housed and transported and the training methods. However, I have no problem seeing the animals at AK because they are in a natural environment...you don't see any repetitive behaviors and other signs of stress. There are choices even with domestic animals; I board my horse at a barn where he is turned out every day and spends his day in a pasture. I know people who stall their horses 24/7, and they develop bad habits such as "weaving" and chewing because it's so unnatural. You can't paste all theme parks and other businesses that use animals with the same brush. I've never seen anything at SeaWorld that would make me hesitant to go there.

 

[a1tinkfans]

interesting thread......something to ponder and make a personal decision on..

I am one of "those".... that PAID to SWIM with stingrays...PAID to interact and even get a KISS from a SEAL (don't even go there, LOL) PAID to have a pix with some tropical bird I cannot even reaall the type.....and would LOVE to swim with turtles as well...I LOVE the zoo, Liked Sea World but would not return, LOVE AK and applaud ALL those that help animals/rescues..........to each his/her own, I guess..........

 

[famsen]

Places like zoos and Seaworld and such allow us and our children to appreciate the animals and sea life. How many people would have the chance to study and understand the beauty and miracle of these species in up close and in person?
Very few people can afford an African safari or a trek to the middle of the ocean. By going to zoos and places like SeaWorld and aquariums, I can look at these gorgeous creatures up close and have more appreciation for them and realize that they are all worth taking care of and treating respectfully.

You can look at a photograph of a flower or a mountain range, but it doesn't compare to seeing, touching and experiencing the real thing for yourself.

 

[jking6]

My daughter is a dolphin lover. We are from upstate NY. I took here to swim with the dolphins at Discover Cove. Loved it and we definitely want to do it again. It was wonderful to see her in the water with a dolphin. How many times in your live could you get that close in a natural environment.