Boy, does this say it all.....

[TheOtherVillainess]

Laura--you must not live in the South-Southwest, as I do. I'm from Texas, where it's almost a necessity to learn at least some Spanish in order to get by. We have a HIGH immigrant/illegal alien population in Texas, a lot of whom do not speak English or care not to.

At my last job, that's the way it was with a majority of my co-workers. They were either Hispanic or from a Latin country and for them, asking them to speak English was the biggest pain in the world. They would much rather speak Spanish than English. And some of them didn't speak English AT ALL, which forced me to learn enough of their language so that I could sort of communicate with them.


TOV

 

[Laura]

I agree that immigrants (legal or illegal) should learn at least some English if they're coming to this country and want to be successful, but I disagree that the OP "says it all". And there are plenty of immigrants in my city, particularly Somalis.

 

[bicker]

Yet, even that (referring to the Spanish language-related issues in the Southern tier), if taken as a problem (a perspective I fully and completely respect), doesn't rationalize the rest of the quoted material in the OP. And that's the problem I see: That the arguable legitimacy of one small part of the monograph might be misconstrued as a foundation for a broader-based perception of legitimacy. That sort of distortion undercuts the progress of the nation towards its original vision, of a land of freedom and opportunity for all.

 

[In a hurry]

I thought that tolerance was a fundamental concept in the US.

The fact that we are no longer a "melting pot" is a change that is hard for many people to conceive. But life is about change, not maintaining the status quo. We may not always like or appreciate the changes, but, so it goes.

Mean-hearted OP.

 

[luvmydogs]

...We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese...

Actually, my Native American Aunt, a member of the Makah tribe, would disagree with that. Her ancestors were here hundreds of years before the English language was.

 

[Cindyluwho]

I get what the OP is talking about. I have family members who came to this country as Cambodian refugees so I'll speak to this. I AGREE about speaking English. My family members learned English. They went to our schools without translators, they assimilated. They even became proud American citizens.

However, in no way did they lose their own heritage. They still speak their language, eat their traditional foods, etc. They were shocked when they moved into communities with larger immigrant populations. They discovered that while they had the "best of both worlds", many of their new friends had limited social circles, limited work opportunities, limited educational opportunities.... and they were thankful that they had immigrated to an area where they were sort of forced to assimilate.

When our family members first came, by law they were offered translators at school, welfare. etc. Together we decided to turn it all down and work at helping them become independent of that kind of help as quickly as possible. While it was not the easiest option (they were a family of 10), they are now of family of highly educated, highly successful Cambodian Americans.

Learning to get along in the society in which you are living does not mean you have to give up your own heritage. There are ex-patriots living all over the world that could tell you that.

disykat, thanks so much for sharing your family's story! I wonder if much of the time new immigrants don't know how vast their possibilities really are? I hadn't thought of that before but it may be part of the reason so many immigrants keep to themselves.

 

[jimmiej]

You didn't even need to post. We knew.

Just makin' sure all the CB "newbies" know.

 

[What the Heck]

I agree with a lot of what has been said, yet I can also understand the frustration of the speaker in the OP. After all, we are multi-cultural, provided you don't want to have a Christmas Tree in many of the major cities. Or have a float at the "Holiday Parade" that has anything to do with Jesus. The freedom of religion, the way things are going in some places, will only apply to those who are not Christian.

As for those learning to speak English, there are part of Chicago that those who imigrate choose to not learn any English - and the stores have adapted to them. It's their right to do so, but in parts of Florida (just as in other parts of the south) if you are not bilingual you cannot get a job.

Also, what about the first paragraph of what was said? No one has commented on that part. I don't mind people being multi-cultural - but why should I be ashamed of mine? Go to the major cities in our country and you will see many events scheduled for Kwanzaa, but call a pine tree with lots of ornaments and lights and a star at the top and Christmas Tree and people start suing! Have a nativity scene on public property - Heaven forbid. But the Kwanzaa stuff is not a problem. What the Heck?

 

[AnaheimGirl]

But the Kwanzaa stuff is not a problem. What the Heck?

Kwanzaa is a cultural holiday, not a religious one.

 

[nwdisgal]

Exactly. If non-English-speaking immigrants come here and want to be successful, it's much easier for them to learn English. But it was the following statement: "This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity" that had me baffled. America has always been a multicultural community, since the first people settled this continent.

I live in one big multicultural melting pot. If you want to understand how intolerance feels, live as the minority. I'd never wish that type of feeling on anyone, now that I've been in the shoes of living as a minority.

 

[bicker]

Kwanzaa is a cultural holiday, not a religious one.

That's true, but I don't think that's the reason. I doubt there would have been that many restrictions concerning the uncontstitutional state-sponsored celebrations of Christmas if the imposition of Christian religious perspectives on non-Christians hadn't been so oppressive to non-Christians in the past.

 

[phamton]

Claim: Air Force veteran pens editorial about the need for immigrants to adapt to American culture.

Status: Sort of.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/american.htm


The article quoted above was written by Air Force veteran Barry Loudermilk and originally published in his local Georgia newspaper, The Bartow Trader. The article has morphed somewhat after it began circulating via email.

 

[va32h]

Go to the major cities in our country and you will see many events scheduled for Kwanzaa, but call a pine tree with lots of ornaments and lights and a star at the top and Christmas Tree and people start suing!

That's just horsepucky. Proof please?

I live just outside a major city (Dallas) and I have not seen a single Kwanzaa event listed in our newspaper or in any way publicized. Show me these lists of scheduled events.

And show me the lawsuit against Christmas trees. Not some garbage off the internet, or an email that was forwarded to you by a friend of a friend of a friend.

The only lawsuit reported in the media was the lawsuit a conservative Christian group threatened to file if the city of Boston did not have a city Christmas Tree.

I had no idea that the "American Spirit" meant being as hateful and vile as possible to anyone who happened to arrive on these shores a few generations after you. Some of the posts in this thread are just disgusting.

America did not invent the English language, you do know that don't you? Our country does not have an "official language" although various right-wing groups have petitioned for that over the years.

"American English" is an amalgam of several languages - if we are so eager to ban any foreigners from speaking them darn confusin foreign words, I guess we'd better all stop eating tacos and sending our children to kindergarten.

Oh I forgot - those are "American" things now. Because we said so. That's what we do, just take whatever we like from a culture and call it our own.

Quick call the Patriotism Police, I said something bad about America! Fortunately, our country was in fact founded on the principle that it should not be illegal, treasonous, or blasphemous to criticize your government.

So sorry, I'm not leaving. And who the heck are any of you to tell me (or any other citizen) to get out of our country? Is that the kind of nation you really want to live in? Where you are exiled if you dare to profess anything but love and adoration for everything about your country?

That's a slap in the face to your beloved Founding Fathers. The very first Americans died for the principles of free speech, free thought, a government that had to listen to and answer to its citizens.

My husband has served two tours in Iraq, and he has seen what it is like to live in a nation where there are no such freedoms.

The very essence of America is the notion that you don't have to speak a certain language, celebrate a certain holiday, or attend a certain church.

And you don't have to like that. That's America, too.

 

[DawnCt1]

There is definately something to be said about the concept of the "melting pot". Some areas of the country and some cities approach that better than others. Last weekend I spoke with a black surgeon who has recently relocated from Miami to Ct. It was snowing and freezing and the thought of living in Miami was indeed tantalizing. I asked him what posessed him to leave. One of his big complaints was the many separate cultures that did not want to seem to come together and work together. He cited the multiculturalism that was pervaisive and seems intent on remaining separate. He pointed out that even though most of the people he encountered had a decent mastery of English, they spoke in their native language, excluding whoever was among them, in other words, the "Balkanization of America". He felt that Ct. was much more inclusive and that despite where people hailed from, they pulled together. Interesting perspective.

 

[HOGFAN]

Bravo!!! ITA with the author!!

 

[jimmiej]

Bravo!!! ITA with the author!!

High-five, HOGFAN!

 

[Free4Life11]

I really feel for minorities. At one of my jobs, I was a "minority" and hated it. I worked at a big movie theatre in downtown Chicago and was one of only a few white employees, most were black. I will be perfectly candid, after 5 months I left. I had it with that place. I didn't appreciate the comments, things said behind me back, nor this "attitude" towards me that seemed to be pretty prevalant. So I don't blame minorites for not wanting to deal with becoming like the majority. And even if they do learn english, they'll likely get comments, sighs, rolleyes, from their accents.

 

[What the Heck]

That's just horsepucky. Proof please?.

I don't have any proof except what I used to see every day at this time when I was getting ready for work on the Chicago stations, usually their ABC affiliate, channel 7.

I live just outside a major city (Dallas) and I have not seen a single Kwanzaa event listed in our newspaper or in any way publicized. Show me these lists of scheduled events. .

Perhaps I should have said Northern major cities. There is a huge cultural difference between Northern and Southern cities.

And show me the lawsuit against Christmas trees. Not some garbage off the internet, or an email that was forwarded to you by a friend of a friend of a friend. .

This one isn't about Christmas trees, but it is about Christmas music - trying to allow it to be sung in school because it has alredy been banned.. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47925

How about this one? http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=3476

Or, how about a lawsuit to ban the Christmas hoiday? http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1998/11/04/loc_xmas04.html

Or, a threatened lawsuit from the ACLU if Christmas isn't censured by a school principal http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1026315/posts (I guess freedom of speech isn't protected in the Constituation either).

So a few cities call it a Holiday Tree, no big deal right? It's about as small a deal as calling a Menorah a Holiday Candle Holder. It's a pine tree, with lots of decorations, with a star or angel on top - it's a Christmas Tree. Don't bore me with the origins of the tree, I wasn't alive in the 1600's. As a historian I'm interested, as someone who is celebrating a very meaningful holiday I'm not.

The only lawsuit reported in the media was the lawsuit a conservative Christian group threatened to file if the city of Boston did not have a city Christmas Tree. .

And that makes a statement about the media.

I had no idea that the "American Spirit" meant being as hateful and vile as possible to anyone who happened to arrive on these shores a few generations after you. Some of the posts in this thread are just disgusting.

America did not invent the English language, you do know that don't you? Our country does not have an "official language" although various right-wing groups have petitioned for that over the years.

"American English" is an amalgam of several languages - if we are so eager to ban any foreigners from speaking them darn confusin foreign words, I guess we'd better all stop eating tacos and sending our children to kindergarten.

Oh I forgot - those are "American" things now. Because we said so. That's what we do, just take whatever we like from a culture and call it our own.

Quick call the Patriotism Police, I said something bad about America! Fortunately, our country was in fact founded on the principle that it should not be illegal, treasonous, or blasphemous to criticize your government.

So sorry, I'm not leaving. And who the heck are any of you to tell me (or any other citizen) to get out of our country? Is that the kind of nation you really want to live in? Where you are exiled if you dare to profess anything but love and adoration for everything about your country?

That's a slap in the face to your beloved Founding Fathers. The very first Americans died for the principles of free speech, free thought, a government that had to listen to and answer to its citizens.

My husband has served two tours in Iraq, and he has seen what it is like to live in a nation where there are no such freedoms.

The very essence of America is the notion that you don't have to speak a certain language, celebrate a certain holiday, or attend a certain church.

And you don't have to like that. That's America, too.

And free speech includes others saying things that you don't like. I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps protecting those rights. And, I'm not sure if you meant all of your comments towards me or just used part of my post to start your thread. If you did mean it towards me, you might want to look again at the other part I wrote in my post.

And please point out to me why someone who doesn't agree with you is "slap in the face of the founding fathers"? Isn't that a part of free speech as well?

 

[Nickunited]

I do agree with the auther here! While his words might have been strong - I do agree with his concept!

 

[va32h]

And free speech includes others saying things that you don't like. I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps protecting those rights. And, I'm not sure if you meant all of your comments towards me or just used part of my post to start your thread. If you did mean it towards me, you might want to look again at the other part I wrote in my post.

I was referring to the sentiments that anyone who complains about America should leave the country. Calling for the exile of "others saying things you don't like" strikes me as wholly un-American.

So a few cities call it a Holiday Tree, no big deal right? It's about as small a deal as calling a Menorah a Holiday Candle Holder. It's a pine tree, with lots of decorations, with a star or angel on top - it's a Christmas Tree. Don't bore me with the origins of the tree, I wasn't alive in the 1600's. As a historian I'm interested, as someone who is celebrating a very meaningful holiday I'm not.

No, it really isn't a big deal. Because Jesus Christ was born, no matter what you or I or anyone else chooses to call our Christmas tree. I am a Christian - my "meaningful holiday" is celebrated in church and at home, does not rely upon the clerk at Best Buy wishing me "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" in order to maintain its meaning.

You admitted yourself that you had no proof for your allegations other than your own personal anecdotes. What you saw on one TV station in one city is not indicative of the entire country.

About your cited lawsuits:

The one with the ACLU threatening to sue if Christmas was not censored was from 2003. A further internet search on the subject found no other information, other than the same article reprinted in various Christian or conservative websites. So we have no idea what the resolution of that case was - or if a lawsuit was even actually filed.

Your other links did not work.

But even if they did, I would not be swayed. Again, these are anecdotes, about celebrations in taxpayer-funded public schools.

My children attend public school. Christmas is downplayed in their school. And yet, my children continue to believe in God and Jesus, and continue to celebrate His birth. Because they learn this at home and at church.

Look, when schools and business start hand-wringing about not wanting to "offend" anyone at Christmas time, I roll my eyes too. I think it's patronizing and insulting to non-Christians, to presume that their faith is so tenouous that hearing "Jingle Bells" will plunge them into a religious crisis. I have Jewish friends, and more than one of them has wryly pointed out that Jews are well aware of the existence of Christianity, even when it is not the Christmas season, and yet somehow manage to get through each day unscathed.

But by the same token, I don't need to see Christmas plastered all over every mall, school, courthouse and town square to know that it is Christmas.