Bought new puppy-vet diagnosed with heart murmur. UPDATE!

[FLCyndi]

Appointment at UF cardiology found Severe Aortic Stenosis. Because there is spongy mass growing in his aorta it is inoperable. UF has done 40 surgeries for this with a 50/50 success rate. No long term data is available as it is a fairly new procedure. Life span is about 2 years and he is on atenolol (beta blocker). Breeder has refunded all of our money and we are going to keep him and treat him for as long as he lives. We have to be careful of his excitement level as he may have fainting spells.

Breeder did offer us another puppy, same litter. I did not want to give him back as breeder said her vet recommended putting him down.
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We have a new English bulldog puppy. I researched kennel where we bought him on AKC and breeder was recommended by his father's kennel. Father's pedigree is impeccable and so is his mother's. Both have multiple show dog champions. HE is a beautiful puppy and we adore him.

Now the problem: Took him to my vet the next day after purchasing, he was diagnosed with a range 3 heart murmur on a scale of 1-6. My vet wants to monitor and said I should notify the breeder. I have made an appointment for a full work up on him at UF Gainesville cardiac unit which may include EKG or echo.

Kennel we bought him from said her vet diagnosed a couple puppies in the litter with murmurs but felt it was no big deal. Her contract says she will replace and she has offered. Father's kennel said the puppy never should have been sold and I should ask for half the money back.

We do not want to give the puppy back as he cannot be bred and may be euthanized so he doesn't pass on defect. We can afford to help this puppy live the fullest life possible and want to keep him. My husband would like her to provide us with a healthy puppy because he feels she will not refund any money.

Sorry so long, just looking for other opinions.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

We have a new English bulldog puppy. I researched kennel where we bought him on AKC and breeder was recommended by his father's kennel. Father's pedigree is impeccable and so is his mother's. Both have multiple show dog champions. HE is a beautiful puppy and we adore him.

Now the problem: Took him to my vet the next day after purchasing, he was diagnosed with a range 3 heart murmur on a scale of 1-6. My vet wants to monitor and said I should notify the breeder. I have made an appointment for a full work up on him at UF Gainesville cardiac unit which may include EKG or echo.

Kennel we bought him from said her vet diagnosed a couple puppies in the litter with murmurs but felt it was no big deal. Her contract says she will replace and she has offered. Father's kennel said the puppy never should have been sold and I should ask for half the money back.

We do not want to give the puppy back as he cannot be bred and may be euthanized so he doesn't pass on defect. We can afford to help this puppy live the fullest life possible and want to keep him. My husband would like her to provide us with a healthy puppy because he feels she will not refund any money.

Sorry so long, just looking for other opinions.

I'm pretty sure it's gonna be an either/or situation. You can't keep the puppy and also ask for another. Well, you could certainly ask, but I don't think you'll find a judge willing to force such a performance.

 

[CPanther95]

Yeah, it's going to be either keep the puppy, or accept the replacement. You can try to get a discount, but if the breeder is offering a no charge replacement, he's under no obligation to do more.

 

[gotomu212]

It's worth asking though. If they've offered a replacement puppy and they know that they are going to euthanize the sick puppy they may take you up on keeping both in order to avoid the cost of having to make final arrangements.

 

[yoopermom]

There are certain breeds with known health issues and for your breed, this is one of them, unfortunately. How old is the pup? I just did a quick google, and it said that pups with a grade 1-2 murmur can have them disappear by the time the pup is 12-18 weeks old. I would ask for a copy of the vet record from the breeder for your own vet to go over. If it is consistent with what your vet diagnosed, then you know what you are facing. If it has changed/worsened, that would be much more serious.

Honestly, if you return it, the pup will most likely be euthanized. That is a decision that only you can make. I have rarely seen a breeder that would simply give you a replacement pup without expecting the first pup back.

Many, many dogs live with a heart murmur their entire lives and it doesn't bother them. Others have it progress, and it impairs their quality of life, and can shorten it dramatically.

If you choose to keep the pup, ask your own vet what further tests he would recommend, and what you can do to ensure as long of a life for the dog as possible.

Also, know that most pet insurance companies will NOT insure a pup like this, so you could be looking at major expense in the future.

I wish you luck. Many buyers see that "replacement pup guarantee" and don't realize the emotional quandary it can put the buyer in.

Terri

 

[DisneyHardin]

Oftentimes heart murmurs in pets don't mean they are going to have any sort of disability. My inlaws have a cat that is 15ish years old. When they first got her the vet diagnosed her with a heart murmur. They have never "treated" it in anyway and she is kicking at 15.

 

[MickeySP]

Were you planning on breeding? If so you will more than likely need to give this one back for a non murmur puppy. If not murmurs do not necessarily mean heart problems.

 

[King Schultz]

I hope you can find a way to keep the puppy and give him the best chance of having a long, happy life.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I hope you can find a way to keep the puppy and give him the best chance of having a long, happy life.

I agree. If money isn't the problem, something the op indicated in their initial post, I think it's an outstanding opportunity to give a great life to an animal that many might turn their back on.

 

[wilkeliza]

Our dachshund breeder was willing to give partial refund and let you keep the defect pup if you didn't want a replacement. Of course our pups went to the vet the day before we got them and got a full check up and then we also had 72 hours to confirm with our own vet.

If you get nothing cut a lose and let the AKC know. They'll want to know breeders are selling puppies witb a heart murmur with out telling the buyers. She could lose the AKV recognition even though it doesn't mean much at all to be honest.

I'm confused by the father's kennel and such. Is the father the woman's father who has their own kennel?

 

[disney world dreamer]

i don't have dogs but i did get a kitten at 8 weeks old and took her to the vet at 10 weeks old and was told she had a murmur and it would be monitored.
by the time i took her back at 14 weeks she no longer had one.
so i'd say its possible that the pup may even "grow out of it".

i'd let the person know that you're not interested in a rplacement because you want THIS dog but you're wondering if there is any way any portion could be refunded.
if the answer you get is no then i'd just roll with it.
you have a pup and you love it.

 

[FLCyndi]

Sire-Highly regarded Kennel in Florida. The sire has had DNA/OFA testing and is free from heart defects.
Mother(bi*ch) is from a kennel in Georgia. Many show dogs and excellent pedigree. This is not the first litter for this dog so it seems she would have passed this on before and shouldn't be breed.
I am taking him to UF cardiac unit to see specialists so I am hoping to get a better read with what we are up against. Range 3 heart murmur can live with medications/intervention depending what is causing the murmur. I hope to know more in a week. The appointment at UF is 1-3 hours with state of the art equipment. The puppy will most likely have a shorter life, need medications and limited activity.

I am leaning towards asking breeder for half the money back as she sold us a sick puppy. This is what the kennel in Florida has advised as the puppy should not have been sold in the first place.

What is emotionally hard is we just had to put one of our dogs down due to seizures. Between that and this it just makes me sad.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Half the cost of the dog now is a drop in the bucket compared to potential medical costs if his murmur indicates a congenital cardiac defect. The thing is, I wouldn't make any firm decisions until I saw the veterinary cardiologist, who is really the person who will fully evaluate the dog and let you know his prognosis. He will have expertise in cardiology and will examine the information on the ultrasound. If his heart valves look like they are opening and closing correctly without causing disruption in blood flow, he might say it's fine, and see how it goes. You say you can afford to keep the dog either way and that would be my concern if it was my dog; just that it could potentially be expensive later on. Once I have a pup for a day, I'd have a hard time "trading it in". I, personally, would always be wondering if that was the right decision. So my advice would be to just wait and see what the cardiolgist says. I also doubt the dog would be euthanized, I'd think neutering would be the main thing, unless the cardiac defect is present and severe. (And I still doubt they would euthanize, but you could always ask.)

http://www.bulldogsworld.com/puppy/heart-murmurs-puppies

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Hmm quotes won't come out, but I wouldn't assume the dog will necessarily live a shorter life, need medications or have limited exercise capacity. Again, it just depends. Bulldogs aren't the most active dogs anyway, lol. In fact, just this afternoon I had lunch with two family members who own an English Bulldog and they were saying she will literally not go out. She doesn't like to walk and spends most of the day under the bed. Now I don't think anything is really wrong with the dog, her veterinary appts always check out ok, it just seems to be "her". So it could be that some in the breed aren't highly active to begin with; of course there's always variation, etc., but something to consider. I know it's hard to think this through right now, but really, just wait and see what the cardiologist has to say, unless you think you might be totally attached by that point. (If you're not already!)

 

[Callie]

I can't believe people would put down a puppy just because of a small defect that isn't causing them any pain. I would keep the puppy.

 

[rascooby]

I guess it depends on your specific contract, but with our Aussie, if he wasn't "show worthy" for any reason (undescended testicles, etc) we would get half our money back.

If I had the money to care for the dog, I don't think I could return it. My husband would probably be saying what yours is though. For what it's worth, we had a Great Dane from an excellent, reputable breeder (multiple champions, all health tests, etc). He got cataracts just before he turned 4 (which we paid $3800 to fix) and then died of lymphoma when he was 4 and a half. It was devastating. All his siblings are fine, it was just something with him I guess. But, even if I had known all those terrible things were going to happen, I would have kept him. He was a wonderful dog, and even though it was short, I loved him every single day of his life.

 

[goofy4tink]

Generally speaking, most kennels will sell either a show/breedable dog or a companion animal. If you buy a companion animal, it will have to be neutered/spayed, according to the contract. If you buy a show/breeding quality animal, but find there is a medical issue that prevents showing/breeding, then you have a valid complaint as far as not being able to breed.
When we bought our previous golden retriever, it was with full knowledge that one testicle hadn't descended. He was just going to be a family dog, so no big deal for us. But, if by the time he was neutered, the testicle hadn't dropped, the breeder wanted to know. If it didn't drop, our dog's mom wouldn't be bred anymore. Happily, it did drop and the breeder wanted us to stop the neuter since they wanted us to agree to show him! Um, no.

Now, the golden we have now, bought from a breeder that was recommended by our previous breeder, also had an undescended testicle. It was so far up that when they neutered him the vet said it was more like a spay..much more extensive surgery!!! We told the breeder this, they didn't seem to care very much. Very disappointed in that particular breeder.

So, wait until you get a more definitive idea from further testing. I agree, it's hard to give back a puppy you've had for more than a day!!! Especially if you think the pup will be euthanized! But, I have to say that we would be looking for at least a partial refund in order to help with medical costs...especially if other dogs had had this issue.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Generally speaking, most kennels will sell either a show/breedable dog or a companion animal. If you buy a companion animal, it will have to be neutered/spayed, according to the contract. If you buy a show/breeding quality animal, but find there is a medical issue that prevents showing/breeding, then you have a valid complaint as far as not being able to breed.
When we bought our previous golden retriever, it was with full knowledge that one testicle hadn't descended. He was just going to be a family dog, so no big deal for us. But, if by the time he was neutered, the testicle hadn't dropped, the breeder wanted to know. If it didn't drop, our dog's mom wouldn't be bred anymore. Happily, it did drop and the breeder wanted us to stop the neuter since they wanted us to agree to show him! Um, no.

Now, the golden we have now, bought from a breeder that was recommended by our previous breeder, also had an undescended testicle. It was so far up that when they neutered him the vet said it was more like a spay..much more extensive surgery!!! We told the breeder this, they didn't seem to care very much. Very disappointed in that particular breeder.

So, wait until you get a more definitive idea from further testing. I agree, it's hard to give back a puppy you've had for more than a day!!! Especially if you think the pup will be euthanized! But, I have to say that we would be looking for at least a partial refund in order to help with medical costs...especially if other dogs had had this issue.

I hear what you are saying! Our dog has a cosmetic, non-medical issue that makes him "non-perfect". His breeder, who is ethical, set him up with a limited AKC registration, so that he could not be registered until he was neutered. Once he was neutered, we sent her the medical certificate saying so, and she sent us his initial paperwork for processing, only then. (I honestly don't think I've even sent it in yet, it's not really a big deal to me. I know he's from good stock and that was the main thing I was concerned about after going through some very heartbreaking medical issues with my previous dogs.)

It sounds like the other dogs, though, had a less serious grade of murmur, ones expected to go away, so those dogs may not, in fact, have anything at all. The OP's dog had a more serious grade murmur, at least according to the general veternarian, but that may or may not turn out to be anything, either. But if it does, it won't be the same thing as the other two - unless their veterinarians were wrong, too! It's sort of subjective to grade a murmur, since it's just what the vet "hears". Before a true diagnosis can be made, they look at actual evidence of valvular problems via ultrasound. And even then, in a puppy, things can change a bit with age when there's a low grade murmur, so that's why one might choose to wait and see. The scenario, though, would be different if there is a true congenital defect. f that all makes sense.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I had a cat with a heart murmur who lived a long, full life and in the end passed away from something completely unrelated. They just gave a listen to it whenever she was at the vet, but it never caused any problems.

 

[FLCyndi]

Thanks for all the answers. He was actually more expensive than the others because he is considered show quality. It really didn't matter to me his show quality as I just liked him the best. He was always going to be a house dog. The availability to stud just would have been nice.