Border Wall..Yes or No

[Cool-Beans]

Yes, but there lies the problem, they have to get the ids and cards to be able to work, so then they take them to get the state assistance. It goes hand in hand.

You don't need an ID to clean houses, mow lawns, waitress, do mechanic work, work in many warehouses, etc.

But if they are getting IDs to work jobs not paid under-the-table, then they are paying taxes and might as well get the welfare that Americans get. If they are working, they won't get much.

I honestly have never understood what the problem is with Mexicans coming to America. I know the Liberals are for it and the Conservatives are against it, but I'm honestly not sure why. If the illegal part is the big problem, why not just let them become citizens? I'm not being a smart-****. I'm seriously asking.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Is that right? My gosh, I never knew that. Are you talking all CA schools or southern CA schools?

I'm not 100 percent sure,but I was in San Diego county the year it started. It was the year my dd started 1st grade..So 1998 or so

This article arizona following Ca footsteps

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/RS-az.htm


Looking at this it looks like some restrictions havebeen lifted,and I'm not surprised,because the teachers I knew hated English Only.

 

[Amity 3]

. The Mexican government is to blame, but they will never change while the US is more than happy to provide for their poor.

and the US breaks down to the average legal, law-abiding, tax-paying man or woman citizen.

I'd rather pay more for my lawn care in the end.

 

[Papa Deuce]

As much as I detest illegal immigration, I think a wall sets a very bad precedent. I would MUCH RATHER we send illegals back to their own coutry ( yes, I know it won't / can't happen.... it is just what I would do if I could ).

Realistically, who except illegals, wannbe illegals, and politicians from the countries which these folks left, could find fault with that, unless they are misguided?

Any soveriegn nation has the right to protect its borders and its citizens.

 

[GotFids]

Yes. It could never work. You can't expect little ones to learn in an environment that was completely foreign to them. School is hard enough. I just wish the schools would offer the same for kids that only speak english. Teach spanish to them. It's become almost mandatory to get jobs here in Ca...you need to know spanish fluently. Most of the jobs I did in the hospitals now require spanish. I couldn't even get my old jobs!! I did manage to communicate enough to get my job done, but I could never pass a test to qualify. Bilingual workers get more money too.

 

[Amity 3]

Yes. It could never work. You can't expect little ones to learn in an environment that was completely foreign to them. School is hard enough. I just wish the schools would offer the same for kids that only speak english. Teach spanish to them. It's become almost mandatory to get jobs here in Ca...you need to know spanish fluently. Most of the jobs I did in the hospitals now require spanish. I couldn't even get my old jobs!! I did manage to communicate enough to get my job done, but I could never pass a test to qualify. Bilingual workers get more money too.

GotFids is now my favorite person here.

screw border patrol and legal immigration, the USA needs busboys.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Yes. It could never work. You can't expect little ones to learn in an environment that was completely foreign to them. School is hard enough. I just wish the schools would offer the same for kids that only speak english. Teach spanish to them. It's become almost mandatory to get jobs here in Ca...you need to know spanish fluently. Most of the jobs I did in the hospitals now require spanish. I couldn't even get my old jobs!! I did manage to communicate enough to get my job done, but I could never pass a test to qualify. Bilingual workers get more money too.

My DD picked up a ton of Spanish in the 3 years she went to PS in ca...Ok,a big part of the problem at least in SD, was that the Spanish speaking kids could not pass the manditory tests so the teachers spent tons of time teaching those kids the words on those tests...The other kids suffered becaus of this..Most of the foreign language speaking kids didn't speak a word of English in K, but by 2nd grade,with bilingual education,they spoke both..Most of the 1st generation Immigrants(legal and illegal )were too busy trying to just feed their kids,to learn English, but the next generation spoke it by 9 or 10..Where I lived there were just as many Samoan, Cambodian and Vietnamese immigrants as there were mexican ones...The ones I knew all worked,with the exception of the elderly..Most of the kids worked by 15..
I will tell you this the economy of Ca would fall apart if youkicked out all of the illegal aliens.

 

[Cool-Beans]

GotFids is now my favorite person here.

screw border patrol and legal immigration, the USA needs busboys.

Some days, I just don't know WHAT to say to you.

But you know what, we do need busboys and lawn-mowers...not that that is all Mexicans are capable of doing! Those are the jobs they take, though. So, why not? They have families to support, too. Wouldn't you cross a border to make sure you could feed your daughter?

 

[nightowlky]

A side note...

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to help create jobs for people south of the border? I mean, look at Ford. Closing down 9-10 plants in the US and then investing $9 billion to build new ones south of the border. Gee, why are they still clamoring to get into the US? Wouldn't be because they're paid **** wages by US companies where US regulations do not apply, would it? NAAAHHHHH!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Flame away!! Quote me all you want, insult me, call me names, and do whatever you want but this is what I think and question I ask when people bring stuff up like this....

When you go out to eat who makes your food?
Who cleans your mess up at the table you eat at restaurant?
Who landscapes your home?
Who builds your new home?
Who paves your streets?
Who will nanny for you while you are at work?
Who cleans your offices?
Who cleans your shopping establishments?
Who cleans your home?
AND who does this for next to nothing or for less than an average american would ever work for? Sometimes working a long hard day and then not getting paid at all?
Oh my is it these "evil" illegal aliens coming over here? YES, it is.

They may use our welfare system and ::gasp:: go to the same school as our children but, honestly I would rather have my tax money go to these people than a crack mama, a meth head or someone who is abusing the system that are here legally.

They come here for a better life obviously their country is not going to get any better with as many crooked politicians there are in their countries.
6.00 an hour may not seem to be alot to most people but, to them that is a fortune compared to the 6 dollars a week that they make where they are from.

Justifying illegal immigration b/c they will work less than minimum wage is akin to justifying indentured servitude and slavery.

Which does happen to illegals who work but are paid under the table. Still more than they make at home though. So I guess it is okay then.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Some days, I just don't know WHAT to say to you.

But you know what, we do need busboys and lawn-mowers...not that that is all Mexicans are capable of doing! Those are the jobs they take, though. So, why not? They have families to support, too. Wouldn't you cross a border to make sure you could feed your daughter?

Lots of Mexicans do take those jobs,but I also knew lots of Mexicans who did other jobs...And yes. I would

 

[Amity 3]

Some days, I just don't know WHAT to say to you.

But you know what, we do need busboys and lawn-mowers...not that that is all Mexicans are capable of doing! Those are the jobs they take, though.

they're not legal citizens. go emigrate to a North Korean hospital and complain about your work schedule, wages, and rights if you want to play on their field.

 

[N.Bailey]

Justifying illegal immigration b/c they will work less than minimum wage is akin to justifying indentured servitude and slavery.

Which does happen to illegals who work but are paid under the table. Still more than they make at home though. So I guess it is okay then.

I have no problem with indentured servants, but I have every problem in the world with slavery. Too bad we didn't utilize indentured servants more. It was a trade off with both sides getting a piece of the pie.

BTW Jenny and nightowlky, thanks for the links. I bookmarked them to read them tomorrow.

 

[Cool-Beans]

they're not legal citizens. go emigrate to a North Korean hospital and complain about your work schedule, wages, and rights if you want to play on their field.

Touche. If illegal aliens are complaining, they need to cut the crap. But if they just want to come here and work, I'm all for that.

And don't go raising the price of my lawn care, thank you.

 

[GotFids]

I will tell you this the economy of Ca would fall apart if youkicked out all of the illegal aliens.

I do think it would hurt our budgets...but honestly, just as we've been able to handle the rising costs of gasoline, power bills, and everything else...I think we'd manage. There was a study done...can't quote whom by at the moment, but it did state that the impact would even out, creating better jobs, due to the fact that farmers would have to offer better pay, therefore compensating for the higher costs in the long run...not to mention the major savings in healthcare, education and prisons. There are many different groups of illegals, but here in So Cal...the main resource drag is the Mexican population.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Touche. If illegal aliens are complaining, they need to cut the crap. But if they just want to come here and work, I'm all for that.

And don't go raising the price of my lawn care, thank you.

Americans mow my lawn . $65 per month, including edging and weed eating. love it when they finish in less than 10 minutes, too.

Now hubby gets back home and he's going to do it.


But too support servant labor for cheap rates is inexcusable. One cannot support minimum wage if that were the case. Do away with it completely. More people could be employed across the board.

 

[Amity 3]

But if they just want to come here and work, I'm all for that.

my turn for the

 

[nightowlky]

A side note...

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to help create jobs for people south of the border? I mean, look at Ford. Closing down 9-10 plants in the US and then investing $9 billion to build new ones south of the border. Gee, why are they still clamoring to get into the US? Wouldn't be because they're paid **** wages by US companies where US regulations do not apply, would it? NAAAHHHHH!!

Another side note:

Illegall immigrant population is estimated to be about 10 million. (8 million in 2003 per CIS and growing at 500k/yr) Figure in a good % of them are children who are not in the work force or are a stay-at-home parent and not in the work force but let's be conservative and say only 20% are not working in the US. That leaves about 8 million. According to bls.gov, there are about 145 million workers in the US. So, we're dealing with 5.5% of the total US workforce. That's not a whole lot but losing all of them would make noticeable impacts in certain areas, specifically the southwest.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Americans mow my lawn . $65 per month, including edging and weed eating. love it when they finish in less than 10 minutes, too.

Now hubby gets back home and he's going to do it.


But too support servant labor for cheap rates is inexcusable. One cannot support minimum wage if that were the case. Do away with it completely. More people could be employed across the board.

It might be inexcusable to you, but it is fine by me and the guys who do my lawn. And we didn't ask to be excused.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes. It could never work. You can't expect little ones to learn in an environment that was completely foreign to them. School is hard enough.

Actually young children are very adept at picking up a foreign language--the younger they are the easier it is. The older you get, the more difficult it is to learn.

Case in point--met a young girl a woman at church adopted. She was/is 7 years old. When we first met her for child care we do at church--she spoke very few english words and her mom gave us some russian words to use with her. I saw her again two months later. We didn't need the russian words anymore. She spoke enough english to not need those words. (mind you her mother isn't abandoning her russian heritage...she goes to an american school and she learned to speak english). she does have some helpers as the girls has some issues with appropriate behavior (she was in a poor orphanage). But other than that, she assimilated to her new environment and not the other way around.

Teaching students in their native tongue when they come to a new country does more harm than good if schools basically conduct all business in spanish for them.