Border Wall..Yes or No

[dcentity2000]

I still have visions of immigrants armed with ladders, spades and boats; the wall is only a partial solution and others should be studied in the mean time.



Rich::

 

[dreamergirl78]

Well I have read this entire thread, I even posted when it first started. I have to say, until you live by the border and see on a daily basis how crazy the illegal situation is, your opinion is from hearsay and media hype.
I want to start by saying that I am not a racist. I am not against anyone coming into the US as long as they do it the right way. But here are my thoughts on the matter. And yes, I am aware that my opinions might sounds extreme but whatever. I am really really tired of the whole situation.
How is it even fair that bus loads of illegal children can get dropped off near a public school and we welcome them with open arms. We spend millions of tax dollars educating these kids who will do what with the education? Probably not become productive citizens of the US. If that was the goal they would be here legally. The whole ESL debate is huge. Do I think learning another language is important? Very much so. Do I think that we should take away funding for other programs so they can have more money for more ESL programs? NO WAY!
The official language of the US is Engligh correct? So how in the world can we even consider changing the official language to Spanish? THIS IS AMERICA! When my Grandma came from Austria she did it the proper and legal way. She leanred the language etc. YES she still held on to her customs and so forth but she was proud to be an American. MOST illegals do not have that sense of pride. They really want the benefits without having to commit to being an American citizen.
Ballots should be written in English. If you can't read English then you probably are unable to watch political debates, read the newspaper, etc to know what it is you are voting on. And yes, everyone should have to show a proper form of ID to vote. If you are a citizen legally then you should have no issues showing an ID card when you get to the polls.
The health care issue is another huge problem. YES if they get hurt while on American soil they get free health care, no questions asked. And babies being born here are automatic citizens. It's just wrong! Until we can take care of our own and ensure that every American has access to health coverage there is no way we should try to justify giving free health care to illegals.
I read several comments about all they want to do is come here and work. Fine, great! Then get a work Visa and come on over. DO IT THE RIGHT AND LEGAL WAY! That's pretty simple.
Did you know that if they are hurt while crossing illegally they can SUE? Yep. And did you know if they damage any of your property while they cross through your backyard you are just SOL? A man heard noises and looked out his window to see about 10 or so illegals crossing over his property. I don't know what happened in between but one of the illegals was hurt by this man. He went and sued this gentleman and was won! All of his property and possessions was turned over to the illegal. That is just sick! Do you know how scary it can be to look out your window and see 10 starangers moving across your property in the dead of night? Now tell me you would NOT defend your property and protect your family.
As you know it gets very hot here. So what do we do? We make watering stations and maps available for them! Why? To make it easier for them to break the law? Pretty smart on our part right?
They leave trash all over the place. In fact many ranchers have reported that their cattle have died from eating plastic bags etc that have been left behind.
The drug smuggling is a whole other story. Do a search on Nogales Arizona drug tunnels.
My frustration is not with Mexicans. I would feel the same way no matter who it was. You have to realize not all of them are peaceful people looking for work. They use force to attack our Border Patrol. They have nothing to loose! They destroy land and abuse our programs that many Americans can't even qualify for.
Perhaps we should take care of our own before we try to resuce the world.

 

[elizke]

I voted no to the wall. I agree there is an illegal immigrant problem, and although I am politically liberal, it is not because I think we should allow all immigrants in and give them all free services from an already strapped system and speak in their language. There are definitely problems there that need to be addressed.

But the wall will not work. Not even alittle. It will cost far too much when we already have too many other costly problems going on. Can we just open one can of money worms at a time? Can we try to fix anything in this country any more with something more than denial and something less than ineffective blunt force?

It will cut US or Mexican citizens off from the river, which is the lifeblood for some. And it will not work - for all of the reasons already stated on this thread.

As much as people dislike the idea of American industry going across the border, maybe more should. The more Mexico becomes a financially decent place to live the less people will feel the need to leave. In fact, put them all along the border. They'll see thriving industry and communities on their way out and change their minds.

 

[rie'smom]

Well I have read this entire thread, I even posted when it first started. I have to say, until you live by the border and see on a daily basis how crazy the illegal situation is, your opinion is from hearsay and media hype.
I want to start by saying that I am not a racist. I am not against anyone coming into the US as long as they do it the right way. But here are my thoughts on the matter. And yes, I am aware that my opinions might sounds extreme but whatever. I am really really tired of the whole situation.
How is it even fair that bus loads of illegal children can get dropped off near a public school and we welcome them with open arms. We spend millions of tax dollars educating these kids who will do what with the education? Probably not become productive citizens of the US. If that was the goal they would be here legally. The whole ESL debate is huge. Do I think learning another language is important? Very much so. Do I think that we should take away funding for other programs so they can have more money for more ESL programs? NO WAY!
The official language of the US is Engligh correct? So how in the world can we even consider changing the official language to Spanish? THIS IS AMERICA! When my Grandma came from Austria she did it the proper and legal way. She leanred the language etc. YES she still held on to her customs and so forth but she was proud to be an American. MOST illegals do not have that sense of pride. They really want the benefits without having to commit to being an American citizen.
Ballots should be written in English. If you can't read English then you probably are unable to watch political debates, read the newspaper, etc to know what it is you are voting on. And yes, everyone should have to show a proper form of ID to vote. If you are a citizen legally then you should have no issues showing an ID card when you get to the polls.
The health care issue is another huge problem. YES if they get hurt while on American soil they get free health care, no questions asked. And babies being born here are automatic citizens. It's just wrong! Until we can take care of our own and ensure that every American has access to health coverage there is no way we should try to justify giving free health care to illegals.
I read several comments about all they want to do is come here and work. Fine, great! Then get a work Visa and come on over. DO IT THE RIGHT AND LEGAL WAY! That's pretty simple.
Did you know that if they are hurt while crossing illegally they can SUE? Yep. And did you know if they damage any of your property while they cross through your backyard you are just SOL? A man heard noises and looked out his window to see about 10 or so illegals crossing over his property. I don't know what happened in between but one of the illegals was hurt by this man. He went and sued this gentleman and was won! All of his property and possessions was turned over to the illegal. That is just sick! Do you know how scary it can be to look out your window and see 10 starangers moving across your property in the dead of night? Now tell me you would NOT defend your property and protect your family.
As you know it gets very hot here. So what do we do? We make watering stations and maps available for them! Why? To make it easier for them to break the law? Pretty smart on our part right?
They leave trash all over the place. In fact many ranchers have reported that their cattle have died from eating plastic bags etc that have been left behind.
The drug smuggling is a whole other story. Do a search on Nogales Arizona drug tunnels.
My frustration is not with Mexicans. I would feel the same way no matter who it was. You have to realize not all of them are peaceful people looking for work. They use force to attack our Border Patrol. They have nothing to loose! They destroy land and abuse our programs that many Americans can't even qualify for.
Perhaps we should take care of our own before we try to resuce the world.

You know,I was thinking about people near the border think. It's all well and good for people not faced with the problem on a daily basis to whine and moan about the poor,pitiful illegals but they don't face the problem every day. My former in-laws lived in Uvalde,TX and my FIL had to chase illegals with machetes out of his barn several occassions. He and my MIL ended up moving because the problem was so bad.Yes,hey did complain to the authorities. It's a shame when law-abiding,decent people have to leave their property because of illegal immigrants.
That said,I have no problem at all with people coming into the country by legal means.My husband has a 2000 acre farm and he hires many immigrants. They are here legally and some with their families.The kids attend school and learn English fairly quickly. If they cannot show papers,he sends them away. People from immigration come and check on a fairly regular basis and he's not about to literally lose the farm, to protect illegals.

 

[dreamergirl78]

You know,I was thinking about people near the border think. It's all well and good for people not faced with the problem on a daily basis to whine and moan about the poor,pitiful illegals but they don't face the problem every day. My former in-laws lived in Uvalde,TX and my FIL had to chase illegals with machetes out of his barn several occassions. He and my MIL ended up moving because the problem was so bad.Yes,hey did complain to the authorities. It's a shame when law-abiding,decent people have to leave their property because of illegal immigrants.
That said,I have no problem at all with people coming into the country by legal means.My husband has a 2000 acre farm and he hires many immigrants. They are here legally and some with their families.The kids attend school and learn English fairly quickly. If they cannot show papers,he sends them away. People from immigration come and check on a fairly regular basis and he's not about to literally lose the farm, to protect illegals.

I agree. It's a different world living by the border than someone who say lives in Ohio or New York. I am sorry your in-laws had to leave THEIR property. It really is sad that they felt they had to move because the problem with illegals was so bad.
Good for your hubby for doing it the right way. There is NOTHING wrong with people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families as long as it is legal.

 

[minniecarousel]

ugh! reminds me of the Berlin Wall

 

[Simba's Mom]

I agree. It's a different world living by the border than someone who say lives in Ohio or New York. I am sorry your in-laws had to leave THEIR property. It really is sad that they felt they had to move because the problem with illegals was so bad.
Good for your hubby for doing it the right way. There is NOTHING wrong with people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families as long as it is legal.

Yup, it's really a "different world" for those of us on the border who live with it every day. As far as babies who are born to illegals being instant citizens, that needs to stop! Down here in Brownsville, there are birthing clinics set up within walking distance of the border. You just need to know the correct door to knock on. The health insurance and medical rates are among the highest in the nation, Why? To subsidize the illegals who show up at the emergency rooms (the law is you can't turn anyone away from an emergency room-well intentioned law), then never pay. And unfortunately, I've talked with many people who live on the river, mostly farmers, who battle the illegals running thru their property. Why don't we send them back? In our area, the Border Patrol drives them to the bus station where they "promise" to go back. Then our local news shows the illegals laughing and walking away from the bus station. There just isn't the money for stronger deportation, but there is money for a wall. I'll admit, like dreamergirl78 said, it becomes a real hot topic for many.

 

[rayelias]

That's right...but that was dividing a country.

And it was also keeping people IN.

 

[Cool-Beans]

And it was also keeping people IN.

A wall does both.

I know I already said this, but any time a country starts putting up walls, it leads to no good.

ETA: And especially when it is done to keep away from us those people who are all going to hurt us, are costing us money, and haven't the right to live as we do. The Mexicans are far from the first group to be labeled in this way.

 

[highland3]

I said yes, after watching much of the debate and discussion.

BUT, as a Canadian who loves the United States, I can only hope and pray such action (even the virtual wall) doesn't come to the northern border.

As I'm in law enforcement, I understand the need for enhanced security on both sides of our borders... but hopefully nothing that drastic.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I'm against the wall, it is not a solution but a band-aid.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I live in NJ, and we have a HUGE illegal immigrant problem here. We also have a huge Spanish population that has no intention of learning English or assimilating into American society.

My best friend's sister married a man from Paraguay. (which made him legal-don't even get me started on that). He's been here over 6 years and speaks only a few words of English. His wife is bilingual and handles all his translation needs. However, he really doesn't have that many translation needs. He can go shopping in any Walmart in the area and find every item labeled in English and Spanish. Most other stores have been forced do the same, because many customers don't speak English. If they want to sell in this area, they have to have bilingual employees as well. He can call anywhere and press "2" for Spanish. All government offices and hospitals are required to provide him with a translator and documents in Spanish.
The worse thing to me is that he has told his wife that he does not want to be an American. He wants the money he can make here, but he and his friends don't want to learn the language or be part of American culture. They want to have their own language here, their own customs-basically have a Little Paraguay in their town. He wants his daughter to be raised as a Paraguyan living in America-not as an American, even though she was born here. That is the complete opposite of the feelings of my great-grandparents when they came from Holland and Poland. The FIRST thing they did was learn English so that they could get a good job. They wanted their children to speak English so that they could get a good education and get better jobs. They were proud when they became citizens and could vote in elections because that was a dream for them.

 

[spazzyjazzy]

Oh for crying out loud. Can we drop the disinformation and talking points?

Go ahead and try living on welfare, permanently. Good luck w/that. And disability? Good luck with that, too. Take my nephew. Suffering from brain tumors and unable to work for 18 mos. now and keeps getting denied disability.

More disinformation in your post is that illegals are doing jobs Americans won't. You should complete that sentence:

Illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do for that low of a pay rate.

My niece has a disability and she gets denied every year. I don't think it is disinformation when I see the financial applications on a daily basis for the people that are scamming the system. How is it that they can say that they cannot afford a 78 dollar ticket but, yet they have name brand clothes on, their nails are done, they have professional highlights in their hair, and are driving a 2006 Chevy Tahoe but, yet it says here that they don't work and get SSI and food stamps.
People do live off of welfare permanently. They do whatever it is that they have to do to be able to.

 

[dreamergirl78]

Yup, it's really a "different world" for those of us on the border who live with it every day. As far as babies who are born to illegals being instant citizens, that needs to stop! Down here in Brownsville, there are birthing clinics set up within walking distance of the border. You just need to know the correct door to knock on. The health insurance and medical rates are among the highest in the nation, Why? To subsidize the illegals who show up at the emergency rooms (the law is you can't turn anyone away from an emergency room-well intentioned law), then never pay. And unfortunately, I've talked with many people who live on the river, mostly farmers, who battle the illegals running thru their property. Why don't we send them back? In our area, the Border Patrol drives them to the bus station where they "promise" to go back. Then our local news shows the illegals laughing and walking away from the bus station. There just isn't the money for stronger deportation, but there is money for a wall. I'll admit, like dreamergirl78 said, it becomes a real hot topic for many.

Exactly. I agree 100% with what you said.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, I am referencing Free Enterpise. If some guy decides the job is good enough for him, who are you to say it isn't? Not you personally, just anyone. If two people make a deal, it isn't anyone else's business to put a stop to it.
.

The problem with that--is the worker is entitled to a wage (though not when they are not legally able to work)....someone posted they make what--$6 a month if they are lucky in Mexico (not saying you said it nor verifying the validity of the statement--but rather bringing it up to make a point).

Based on something you said or implied...as long as they make more than they do at home and are happy---then that is okay.

So if they are willing to work $8 per month, it is okay to rape them of their due earnings so you can get cheap services?

That isn't free enterprise--that is American business taking advantage of the fact that they need labor, these people are illegal....and if they pay them under the table--anything more than what they make at home is okay.

So then--if wal-mart can hire some people totally willing to make $5 an hour...would that be okay...or only if the person wasn't legally entitled to work in the US but really needed any job?

If it was done to an American--it is illegal. Pretending you are doing them a favor....is not free enterprise.


Two people used to make a deal way back when on what earnings would be okay. Then the government stepped in and made minimum wage. Economically--it enables less people to work as there is now a floor of how low the employer can go...but then people actually got to earn more than slave wages.

Funny how everyone gets their panties in a bunch that we need an increase in minimum wage--and then there is a separate group that is okay with the Perez family making chump change b/c they feel fortunate to be receiving more than what they get at home. Not okay for Americans--and non-Americans legally entitled to work here....but okay to take advantage of illegal immigrants who are poor and came to the land of "opportunity".

Hope you have a real nice lawn.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

THE HOSPITALS ARE ADMITTING THIS PRACTICE!!! THEY ARE OVERCHARGING INSURED PATIENTS TO COVER THE UNINSURED ILLEGALS!!!

Hospitals inflate prices to cover all those who don't have insurance..including the homeless, and those who aren't eligible for SS benefits yet and have no insurance nor any ability to pay.

They are legally required to stabilize a patient to the point where they can be discharged.

But it is NOT limited to just illegal immigrants. It is for all of those who have no ability to pay--and a bill collector would mean nothing to them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The official language of the US is Engligh correct? So how in the world can we even consider changing the official language to Spanish? THIS IS AMERICA!

Actually it is not any language. It is the common language--and thus the huge availability of bilingual items in areas where it is necessary--signs, paperwork, much anything to allow a person who speaks spanish to get by well enough utilizing their native tongue.

Mostly in Border states and Florida. I'm sure elsewhere may have it as well..but I don't know all my bilingual areas just yet.

 

[Fitswimmer]

But it is NOT limited to just illegal immigrants.

Perhaps not, but the billing department did not mention the homeless. I was told specifically that the influx of illegals had created a shortfall and was causing the hospital to find other ways to balance it's books. I was telling the story to two people at my office, and they told me their hospitals told them the same thing. Three different hospitals all saying that they are trying to get additional money from insured patients to cover illegals.

It's been about 20 years since I worked medical billing but at that time Medicare covered the homeless and those who did not qualify for SS. By definition, illegals do not qualify for medicare.

 

[nightowlky]

My niece has a disability and she gets denied every year. I don't think it is disinformation when I see the financial applications on a daily basis for the people that are scamming the system. How is it that they can say that they cannot afford a 78 dollar ticket but, yet they have name brand clothes on, their nails are done, they have professional highlights in their hair, and are driving a 2006 Chevy Tahoe but, yet it says here that they don't work and get SSI and food stamps.
People do live off of welfare permanently. They do whatever it is that they have to do to be able to.

Ah, good ol' anecdotal evidence and generalizations. WHEEEE!!

 

[nightowlky]

I had surgery in January and luckily for me, I have a good job with good medical insurance. The woman I spoke to in the billing dept at the hospital told me that they bill insured customers at the highest possible rate so that they can get as much money out of the insurance companies as possible. That will defray the cost of providing health care for the illegals that come through the ER. They cannot turn them away becuase they don't have insurance. Two co-workers told me similar stories, one just had a baby and another had orthopedic surgery. THE HOSPITALS ARE ADMITTING THIS PRACTICE!!! THEY ARE OVERCHARGING INSURED PATIENTS TO COVER THE UNINSURED ILLEGALS!!!

Let's correct your last sentence to make it accurate:


THEY ARE OVERCHARGING UNINSURED PATIENTS TO COVER THE DISCOUNTS GIVEN TO INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!

You see, when someone has insurance, the insurance company negotiates a STEEP discount with the provider. I get the paperwork back after my insurance has covered hospital bills and there's usually something in the range of 40-60% discounts provided to the insurance company.

Just so happens my oldest had a few hospital visits and ambulance runs at a point in time when I did not have insurance coverage on her and I was stuck with the full balance of every bill. No discounts to be had there.

So, no insurance in this country means you are SCREWED. Isn't it great to be in America, the only industrialized nation on the planet w/o a form of nationalized health care!

WHEEEE!!