Boo and hiss to Major League Baseball and its Teflon Umps

[Doctor P]

I guess Major League Baseball thinks that its umpires are descendants of the Messiah and beyond reproach. There have been multiple incidents of players and coaches being suspended for vociferous arguing with the umpires this year. I can't even believe some of the suspensions that have been handed down, but the one handed down today really got my goat because I was watching the game in which it happened. Carlos Lee of the White Sox attempted to steal second base in a game a few days ago and the umpire got lazy on the play and did not get into position to make the call. Unfortunately, he had to guess and he missed the call VERY, VERY badly. The White Sox manager came out to argue the call and the umpire went ballistic/macho on him and was not even willing to hear an argument or listen to the manager. As you might imagine, this incited the manager even further. Well...seems the MANAGER just got suspended two games for arguing. This is about the tenth time this season (including the recent suspension of Kerry Wood for what they claimed was "inciting the crowd") they have suspended someone for a situation brought on by an umpire's behavior. I'm sorry, but I think the fines for umpires and suspensions for bad behavior should be more frequent and more public (I know of at least two large fines levied against umpires for things done at games I attended, but you would never know it unless you dug and read the fine print). UGGGHHHHH! I know umps are human, and they generally do a fantastic job, but when it is the ump who cops an attitude I think he should REALLY, REALLY pay an extreme price. JMHO.

 

[nativetxn]

I guess there's just "no arguing allowed" in baseball, huh?

 

[olena]

OH! Talk about opening old wounds! Drew Coble and Eric Gregg are not missed by this baseball fan.

 

[KingsFanInRI]

Originally posted by olena
OH! Talk about opening old wounds! Drew Coble and Eric Gregg are not missed by this baseball fan.

You can add Richie Garcia and Frank Pulli to that list......

Umpires need to be taught that the fans did not pay to see them, they came to see the players. Most of these guys are egotistical maniacs whose sole purpose is to get on Sportscenter, when in reality their job is to go unnoticed. The sign of a well-umpired game, a well-officiated game in any sport for that matter, is when you can't remember who the umpires/referees were.

 

[KimRaye]

Originally posted by KingsFanInRI
The sign of a well-umpired game, a well-officiated game in any sport for that matter, is when you can't remember who the umpires/referees were.

ITA!

I didn't even know that umps could GET fined until I read your thread, DrP. Thanks for the info.

I feel your pain.

 

[piglet too]

DH and I talk about this a lot. It used to be that the players or managers could argue, yell, cuss, kick dirt all they wanted, so long they did not touch the ump, before they got thrown out or in any real trouble. As a matter of fact, I can recall some of the faces of umps, as they were trying not to laugh as the player or manager carried on their little hissy fits. Now-a-days it seems like they (the umps) are throwing people out of games for so much as questioning a call. They seem to get much more physical as well, rather than just standing back and letting it go. I feel that the umps have gotten to big for their britches.

 

[Jungle Skipper]

I agree in theory...Umps are trying to lean into the spolight more often these days...however, we as an armchair coach can't hear everything being said on the field, so as an optimist I can't condemn them for throwing players out after the arguing has started...but it is true a lot of umps seem to be starting things recently.

As a wise man (my dad) once told me...if you know an Umpires name...that's not a good thing. i.e. C.V. Bucknor and Angel Hernadez (the worst of them all IMHO). Oh and not to mention the imfamous Don Dekinger

That being said, I also thing there are other flaws in the MLB suspensions program...allowing some of these appeals to go on forever (just so a key player doesn't miss out on a key series...god forbid we acctually punish the player and/or team!) And I think the way suspensions with starting pitchers are handled is ridiculous too...if they get a 5 game, all it is is an extra days rest..not acctually missing a start...it just seems flawed.

Sorry...rant...quirk....

Jungle Josh

 

[KimRaye]

Thought you might find this interesting:

CHICAGO -- Umpire Bruce Froemming admitted he made a mistake Thursday but it was too late to help the Chicago Cubs.

The controversial play occurred in the Padres' sixth. Cubs starter Matt Clement, had a 2-0 lead.

The Padres rallied in a wild sixth. Reliever Jon Leicester walked Terrence Long to start the inning. Rich Aurilia then hit a grounder that second baseman Mark Grudzielanek grabbed and flipped to shortstop Nomar Garciaparra, who was covering at second.

Garciaparra threw to first, but the ball sailed past first baseman Derrek Lee and into the seats for an error.

Froemming, who was the second base umpire, ruled Garciaparra was off the bag and Long was safe. Both Garciaparra and Cubs manager Dusty Baker argued that Long was out, while Long scrambled to his feet and scored on the throwing error.

"I looked at the replay and he had the bag so I missed the play," Froemming said. "You don't like it to happen. On the field, I had him coming across the bag. I came in here and looked at the replay. I wanted to know if I had it right. I did not have it right.

"I missed the play," Froemming said. "That's all I can tell you. You don't like to miss them. I looked at the replay and it's clear he got the bag."



Kudos to Froemming. Tough luck to the Cubs, tho.




Josh, I hear ya on many things you're saying, but as far as the pitchers' suspensions go, they get 5 days typically so that they DO miss 1 game. How many actual games do day-to-day players miss when they're suspended? Not much, if any, more than that.

In some respects, I think the FINING is a better way to handle some things. It takes the punishment to another level, i.e. the players own (FULL) pocketbook, but nonetheless, they pay personally! I know the announcers said the other day that Moises Alou was gonna PAY for spiking his bat. Rule-breakers pay, personally. just a thought.

 

[Dreamer04]

What effect does arguing with the ump have, exactly? Can a call be changed after it is made? Can an ump change his mind?

Unless we get some kind of replay rule-these type of suspensions will continue.

 

[Doctor P]

Yes, sometimes with the arguing calls can and will be changed. There was a series about a week ago that upon argument THREE calls were changed (correctly I might add) to take away home runs that were actually foul. Generally, the calls that get changed are ones that another umpire also had a good look at the play and is able to help out with the call (typically fair/foul calls since there is usually more than one umpire that is in reasonable position to see the play). Interestingly, the Froemming call that Kim refers to was the same umpiring crew that was involved in the controversial call the day before that led to the suspension that irked me. It is also notable that typically it is the bad umpires who get involved in these incidents time after time. The problem is really not the bad calls (though they can be frustrating), because these guys are human. The problem is attitude and machismo on the part of the umps when they get in these situations.

 

[Doctor P]

You might be interested in the two incidents that led to the umpire fines that I know about. The largest fine (and it was large--as I recall it might have been as much as 1/4 of the umpire's typical yearly salary) involved Ken Kaiser. He was the plate umpire in a game being pitched by a rookie pitcher (might have been his first major league start). On the second or third pitch of the game, the ball got away from the pitcher and ended up hitting Kaiser in the shoulder. He screamed out at the pitcher, came out from behind the plate and kept screaming and ROLLED the ball on the ground to the pitcher. When the manager yelled out to Kaiser (and the field mike caught the exchange) saying "where do you get off showing up my pitcher? he's a rookie for god's sake?" Kaiser threw him out of the game while he was still in the duggout. The manager flew out of the dugout to protest and the strongest thing he said in the argument was "that is BS" and "you are BS." The second incident involved Albert Belle. He struck out on a called third strike. He calmly (without saying one word) took his helmet off and laid down his bat in the batter's box and walked away. He did not say a word and was immediately thrown out of the game for "showing up the umpire." The umpire was ultimately fined for having no grounds to eject him.