BOG breakfast for Mine train warning! Early ride not guaranteed

[mom2AidanAndEli]

Let's assume both groups are getting there way before the park opens. Both groups are waiting.

The only difference is the ADR group is paying a huge premium to wait in a restaurant and eat at the same time.

What is the logic behind holding ADR people to go behind the rope drop people? Both groups have done their time.

My suspicion is that MrInfinity doesn't want to make an ADR and go have breakfast. Thus, the logic that people who do that need to wait until after him.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

You really think that? You're "just waiting in a different spot?". Oh my. Why not walk up to any ride and expect to ride immediately. Oh CM, but I was waiting, I was just standing by that post... I was just in the bathroom... I was just eating... That's one of the craziest thigns I've heard, that if you're "just waiting somewhere else" that that counts as waiting in line. There is a system for that. It's called FASTPASS. If you do not have a FastPass, you *are not waiting somewhere else*. You're either in line or you're not. ADRs do not come with a bonus FastPass. Too funny.

But there is no line for any ride before the park opens. You are waiting for the park to open in different locations, some of which may offer an advantage at certain rides and attractions over other locations. You keep trying to compare the pre-opening breakfast ADR situation to a situation where an actual line has already formed at an actual attraction after park opening. Everyone can see you're making an analogy that makes no sense except you. And with that, I'm done with this conversation. It's all moot anyway since no one else except the OP has experienced being held back like she did.

 

[MrInfinity]

My suspicion is that MrInfinity doesn't want to make an ADR and go have breakfast. Thus, the logic that people who do that need to wait until after him.

Why would you suspect that even tho I've clearly said in two posts that I do that often? Are you just not reading the posts? Again all I've said is that one cannot EXPECT an ADR to essentially be a bonus FastPass. If it works out that way? Great. But if you expect it, and thus get mad at a CM because it doesn't work, then it's your expectation that was off, not the CM that was wrong.

A lot of ppl have a hard time assuming that what you're arguing is because it's "good for you". i.e. if you don't want something, it must be because you don't use it. I don't do that. I look at the scenario posed, objectively. In this case, if you go in thinking you deserve, or are guaranteed a free cut in line your expectation is off. Simple.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

(At 9am, if you have finished eating around 8:30, you, too have been waiting in line. The difference is that you are just waiting in a different spot.)

But is that different spot the correct spot? Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

(If those people had been there since 7:45am, technically they were there first. Whether or not they chose to eat is really none of your concern.)

When it's the very subject we're talking about, it doesn't need to be anyone's concern.

(So have you, apparently.)

Most everyone here has gamed the system in some way or another. Guilty as charged for all of us not the least of which is me. But at the end of the day, we aren't entitled to it. And all not getting it requires is a change in strategy. It's still the same game. And he who can make the adjustment wins.

 

[MrInfinity]

But there is no line for any ride before the park opens. You are waiting for the park to open in different locations, some of which may offer an advantage at certain rides and attractions over other locations. You keep trying to compare the pre-opening breakfast ADR situation to a situation where an actual line has already formed at an actual attraction after park opening. Everyone can see you're making an analogy that makes no sense except you. And with that, I'm done with this conversation. It's all moot anyway since no one else except the OP has experienced being held back like she did.

That's a pretty fair way to look at it, but whether I think that is fair, or you think that is fair doesn't matter. What matters is what Disney wants to enforce. If they say the line starts at the rope, then the line starts at the rope. Since you were never guaranteed to get to go in ahead of the rope, they can decide this.

And I agree, it has not happened often that Disney held back nearby guests for the rope, but if they were to start doing so, you would have no grounds to be mad at them for not letting you go first. You don't seem to get the difference. If you do it? Fine. Great even. But if you expect it or feel it's owed to you, that's where you're wrong. Oh well. I will continue to use ADRs for early access to rides as always... but I won't wrongly set the expectation that by doing so I'm owed a ride unless I actually use a FastPass on it.

 

[Kalliope]

I don't understand why anybody needs to be there at rope drop anyways, most rides are virtually walk-on through most of the day even during the summer.

 

[crostorfer]

You really think that? You're "just waiting in a different spot?". Oh my. Why not walk up to any ride and expect to ride immediately. Oh CM, but I was waiting, I was just standing by that post... I was just in the bathroom... I was just eating... That's one of the craziest thigns I've heard, that if you're "just waiting somewhere else" that that counts as waiting in line. There is a system for that. It's called FASTPASS. If you do not have a FastPass, you *are not waiting somewhere else*. You're either in line or you're not. ADRs do not come with a bonus FastPass. Too funny.

I've never done this for BoG, but I'm assuming that you don't get to just leave the restaurant, or just wander through the park and not show up for your ADR, and just plant yourself in line at the 7DMT? You are held, at a rope, outside of BoG, correct? Still waiting, just in a different spot. That isn't crazy at all. You are still in a line, at a rope, before the park opens, waiting. Quite logical, not funny.

 

[crostorfer]

Why would you suspect that even tho I've clearly said in two posts that I do that often? Are you just not reading the posts? Again all I've said is that one cannot EXPECT an ADR to essentially be a bonus FastPass. If it works out that way? Great. But if you expect it, and thus get mad at a CM because it doesn't work, then it's your expectation that was off, not the CM that was wrong.

A lot of ppl have a hard time assuming that what you're arguing is because it's "good for you". i.e. if you don't want something, it must be because you don't use it. I don't do that. I look at the scenario posed, objectively. In this case, if you go in thinking you deserve, or are guaranteed a free cut in line your expectation is off. Simple.

But even you do, to a certain extent. You make H&V reservations with the expectation that you will be able to get to TSM faster. You do this too, you said you did. You just qualify this with the tagline of "if they change the policy I won't get mad". The OP didn't get mad, she saw some mad people, but she wasn't mad, she was disappointed, as would be you, if they changed the policy at H&V. When you point a finger at someone, you have three pointed back at yourself. That pedestal you are standing on is starting to wobble a bit.

 

[GaryDis]

How is waiting in a herd in the front of the park construed as a "legitimate line" for 7DMT?

It becomes a legitimate line when a CM at the front of the park says "Everyone who wants to go on 7DMT line up right here by me, and when the park opens, we will walk, not run, to the ride, and anyone who gets in front of me will have to go to the end of the line."

I don't know if that's what actually happened. I've only ever seen it happen at DL for Indiana Jones, but yes, I consider that a legitimate line forming at the front of the park.

And after I got in front of the CM, because I was heading to buy tickets for the Fantasmic! dessert buffet, I didn't then go back to IJ and expect to cut in front of the 80% of the people who had been behind me at the rope drop, claiming that they started out behind me but I was giving Disney more money, I deserved to get back into what would have been my place, had I chosen to go to IJ before going to the dessert buffet line.

Yes, this is not exactly the situation with BOG/7DMT, but I hope it's close enough for people to at least understand and acknowledge the rationale, even if you still don't agree with it.

 

[MrInfinity]

But even you do, to a certain extent. You make H&V reservations with the expectation that you will be able to get to TSM faster. You do this too, you said you did. You just qualify this with the tagline of "if they change the policy I won't get mad". The OP didn't get mad, she saw some mad people, but she wasn't mad, she was disappointed, as would be you, if they changed the policy at H&V. When you point a finger at someone, you have three pointed back at yourself. That pedestal you are standing on is starting to wobble a bit.

I joined the conversation when I noticed several ppl said they'd be irate if that happened. To that I have to ask... does that happen often? If you do not get something you didn't buy and weren't owed, you get mad? Irate? On vacation? When you weren't even owed it? Again great if it works out, but if it doesn't then that's that. The OP said they went on something else. Perfect! I never once chided the OP. I was commenting on the folks who said that would make them irate to not get what they were never owed. You seem to take that very personally. I'm not on a pedestal. I've used ADRs, I would use them again, but if Disney enforced the rope drop lines it's not like I'd be up in their face demanding to go ahead of the rope drop crowd because "i was in line, just waiting somewhere else" [ROFL]. I think you're trying to make an argument where there is none. Everyone pretty much agrees you A) can try it, but B) you're not owed it, and it's not guaranteed, since nowhere on the ADR does it say you get an extra FastPass or to go in the lines before the rope drop crowd.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

15 pages of discussion for something that happened one time to about 20 people. Isn't the internet grand?

(and I'm not judging btw. Heck, I read most of it! lol)

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Let's assume both groups are getting there way before the park opens. Both groups are waiting.

The only difference is the ADR group is paying a huge premium to wait in a restaurant and eat at the same time.

I can't see the logic behind holding ADR people to go behind the rope drop people? Both groups have done their time.

When I went to Crystal Palace way back when, and it didn't work out, I was taking a chance that the park would be empty and I could get great pictures at the castle and would get done in time to be reasonably toward the front at rope drop. But Disney wasn't selling that and I wasn't paying for that. Disney sold me a breakfast. I paid for a breakfast. I got a breakfast. The other things didn't work out. Similarly, Disney isn't selling fotl privileges. And people aren't paying a premium for them. They're paying for and getting breakfast and taking a chance, they'll be in the fotl.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

15 pages of discussion for something that happened one time to about 20 people. Isn't the internet grand?

(and I'm not judging btw. Heck, I read most of it! lol)

I found it ironic when I warned of something that happened to me that people it didn't happen to were complaining and I wasn't. I wonder if the OP finds this thread ironic?

 

[DisneyWishes14]

You really think that? You're "just waiting in a different spot?". Oh my. Why not walk up to any ride and expect to ride immediately. Oh CM, but I was waiting, I was just standing by that post... I was just in the bathroom... I was just eating... That's one of the craziest thigns I've heard, that if you're "just waiting somewhere else" that that counts as waiting in line. There is a system for that. It's called FASTPASS. If you do not have a FastPass, you *are not waiting somewhere else*. You're either in line or you're not. ADRs do not come with a bonus FastPass. Too funny.

Um, no they aren't just randomly waiting in another spot. There is a line that forms outside of BOG that is being supervised by a CM. Just like the RD line. Same kind of line. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Oh and regarding my expectations, you have that wrong as well. I don't expect to ride multiple times or before anyone else. I don't even want to be ushered into the FP+ line. I would like to freely line up for attractions when RD occurs. I don't think that is expecting too much.

I think it's hysterical that you even think that's my expectation. As I've stated before my son has a DAS. We don't need a leg up to get on the ride. I'm trying to minimize his standby time so he can play the queue games. I don't even care if we get on the ride. I am trying to find the best way to get in the standby line with minimal wait (I'm not asking for instant access) and avoid a stampede up Main Street. My son can't do it. So forgive me if, in the interest of my disabled child, I bring him to the park an hour and a half before RD to walk quietly up Main Street, eat breakfast and then wait IN A LINE in a less congested area of the park so he can go in a STAND BY line. Oh, but according to you, that's not "fair"? I'm sorry, but who put you in charge of what a "legitimate" RD line looks like at RD? The RD people waiting for 7DMT ALSO form their line in another part of the park just like the BOG people. They are not lining up AT the ride. At the end of the day, this is all at Disney's discretion. And it's been pointed out time and time again, BOG guests weren't crashing gates or jumping fences. Disney was encouraging multiple rides and ushering people into FP+. BOG guests weren't breaking any of your "rules".

 

[DatFan]

Hoping for latest reports from those with pre RD ADR's.... IF I think I can beat the crowd to ride SDMT then I will certainly attempt to book early ressies. It is that simple. For those that disagree then I say get over it!

 

[thiabelle]

This thread is so interesting to me and I've been following it faithfully. Fairness is such an interesting concept but we all know that life isn't always fair. I teach in a middle school and the first thing my kids will point out is perceived unfairness (and I will say they are usually fairly accurate)!!

The issue here (to me) is that someone has to be first on 7DMT but how does Disney determine who is first AND DO THEY CARE ABOUT FAIRNESS? My guess is they don't give a Remy tushy about fairness- rather bottom line business decisions guide such decisions. And they must make money having pre-park opening ADR's. Is it possible to have multiple rope drop locations and would that be fair? I don't know. But I do know that BOG is closer to 7DMT than the front of the park and as such I will be enjoying BOG breakfast twice on my trip in three weeks. I'm actually more excited now that I can look at it as recon mission. If it works out great- if not- well I ate!

I can arrive at the front gates of the MK at 6am and be the first person there- still doesn't guarantee that I will be the first person through the tapstiles. Heck- I usually am behind someone who had MB issues. Seriously- I should put a sign on my back that warns the people behind me that they should find another line cause I am bad luck. Along that same line- in the OP's description- the dad of the other family was super upset because he had been behind BOG folks when he was RD and then behind RD folks when he was a BOG diner. THAT would be me on most occasions. I see a situation and adjust accordingly but it still doesn't work out for me. And then I start to feel sorry for myself cause it isn't fair (and I really feel for that guy!!)

 

[GaryDis]

The problem with screaming "fairness" is that there's more than one way to do things fairly.

Consider EPCOT's International Gateway:

1. They could synchronize rope drop to be the exact same time at the front and at IG - that would be fair.
2. They could open IG a couple of minutes earlier, to compensate for the longer walk to FW (the only part that's open at RD time) - that would be fair, too.
3. They could have separate lines at Soarin', TT, and MS for the main gate and IG people, and alternate taking people from each line - that would also be fair.

I wrote earlier that fairness is an innate sense that's triggers strong feelings. But it's also a subtle, slippery concept. It's entirely possible to have two or more strategies, all of which are fair in their own ways.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

This thread is so interesting to me and I've been following it faithfully. Fairness is such an interesting concept but we all know that life isn't always fair. I teach in a middle school and the first thing my kids will point out is perceived unfairness (and I will say they are usually fairly accurate)!!

The issue here (to me) is that someone has to be first on 7DMT but how does Disney determine who is first AND DO THEY CARE ABOUT FAIRNESS? My guess is they don't give a Remy tushy about fairness- rather bottom line business decisions guide such decisions. And they must make money having pre-park opening ADR's. Is it possible to have multiple rope drop locations and would that be fair? I don't know. But I do know that BOG is closer to 7DMT than the front of the park and as such I will be enjoying BOG breakfast twice on my trip in three weeks. I'm actually more excited now that I can look at it as recon mission. If it works out great- if not- well I ate!

I can arrive at the front gates of the MK at 6am and be the first person there- still doesn't guarantee that I will be the first person through the tapstiles. Heck- I usually am behind someone who had MB issues. Seriously- I should put a sign on my back that warns the people behind me that they should find another line cause I am bad luck. Along that same line- in the OP's description- the dad of the other family was super upset because he had been behind BOG folks when he was RD and then behind RD folks when he was a BOG diner. THAT would be me on most occasions. I see a situation and adjust accordingly but it still doesn't work out for me. And then I start to feel sorry for myself cause it isn't fair (and I really feel for that guy!!)

That's just the thing. One group gets to go first. The other doesn't. And what is "fair" is subjective. I think many more in the group that doesn't get to go first are going to think it unfair than in the group that got to go first. The CMs are going to hear it from some of the people in one group regardless when in reality, both groups took their chances and neither group is entitled to automatically go first. The bottom line is it is Disney's park and it is Disney that determines which goes first. And they can change that determination if they wish.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Hoping for latest reports from those with pre RD ADR's.... IF I think I can beat the crowd to ride SDMT then I will certainly attempt to book early ressies. It is that simple. For those that disagree then I say get over it!

There are reports from TODAY indicated that people with early BOG ADRs were allowed to ride 7DMT without being detained. Same with yesterday, and the day before that, and the day before that. OP had an unusual experience.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

It becomes a legitimate line when a CM at the front of the park says "Everyone who wants to go on 7DMT line up right here by me, and when the park opens, we will walk, not run, to the ride, and anyone who gets in front of me will have to go to the end of the line."

Yes, this is not exactly the situation with BOG/7DMT, but I hope it's close enough for people to at least understand and acknowledge the rationale, even if you still don't agree with it.

Yes, I understand that. But how is that any more "legitimate" than the line that is forming and being supervised by a CM outside of BOG? Appears some people on here have a proximity issue. I don't really care. My DS and I will enjoy our breakfast and hope for the best with the standby line when we exit and wait IN THE LINE outside of BOG. Yes, it's true, I'm trying to minimize our wait in a standby line - isn't that what we are all trying to do? It will still be a better situation for DS than waiting in the large crowd at opening. I'm just hoping we can get in to play the games with a wait of 20 minutes or less. If not, he will just walk out of the line (he knows when he can't handle it anymore) and we will do something else.

I cannot imagine what this forum will look like when Garden Grill breakfast opens on Nov. 8 . . . Talk about proximity to a high demand ride!