black and white digital

[jann1033]

sorry i know this has been asked but i did an search and couldn't seem to find it

what in your opinion is the best way to do digital b and w? i just can't seem to get the same depth of tone with digital

i have been removing the color then playing with the brightness, contrast, etc but it just doesn't compare to b &w film...i am ready to either pull out my old rebel film and see if my lens will work( i'm guessing they would) or would like a great software program that would actually come close to film...any suggestions in digital processing or programs( hopefully like $100 or less, i have photoshop elemets 4)?
thanks

 

[boBQuincy]

Here is the method I have found to be the most useful:

http://www.outbackphoto.com/workshop/photoshop_corner/essay_21/essay.html

It allows you to see the changes as you move the sliders.
Adobe Lightroom has a very good b&w system, I hope Adobe fixes the slowdown issues soon.

 

[fitzperry]

I've had the tutorial that boBQuincy linked to bookmarked for quite awhile but haven't had enough time to play with it.

If you're using the "remove color" command, you might also try desaturating instead. I really don't know why, but sometimes it produces a nicer result. I play with the levels and contrast too, and I also sometimes add a very slight diffuse glow to b&w images.

Also, a certain former poster from north of the border used to recommend Alienskin Exposure, which if I remember correctly is a PS plug-in with filters that mimic the effects of various types of film.

 

[Anewman]

I mostly desaturate and a apply a curves adjustment during the RAW conversion.

Also, a certain former poster from north of the border used to recommend Alienskin Exposure, which if I remember correctly is a PS plug-in with filters that mimic the effects of various types of film.

But of course it was a "coincidence" that the person that "recommended" it, just so happened to be selling it on EBAY at the exact same time of said recommendation...

But it is a very good product, I tried it based on that "recommendation", and was very impressed.

 

[fitzperry]

But of course it was a "coincidence" that the person that "recommended" it, just so happened to be selling it on EBAY at the exact same time of said recommendation...

But it is a very good product, I tried it based on that "recommendation", and was very impressed.

Purely coincidence, I'm sure. It looks pretty cool to me--just not at the top of the priority list, which unfortunately at the moment includes a new washing machine instead of more photo gear.

 

[jann1033]

ok i downloaded the alienskin exposure, it said it installed it in photoshop e4 but when i open photoshop it's the same as before, minus alienskin ...i found the manual and it said to install it the way i did( expect not registration for the demo) so what did i do wrong? i cant' find it any whereon my computer and sure not in photoshp

 

[ndelaware]

Jann, you do know the XT can take B&W images?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I haven't played around with B&W shooting, but I would imagine that it would hugely important to be able to adjust the different colors before conversion.

For example, if you were shooting a red object on a green lawn under a green sky and they were all at the same brightness, a simple conversion would result in a boring gray photo. If you darkened your greens and lightened your blues before the conversion, you would darker grass and lighter sky.

A classic use of this is for skies. If you have a light blue sky with light gray clouds, it'll look really boring with a straight conversion. If you darken the blues first, the clouds will really stand out because they'll contrast with the sky more.

I would also think that maximizing your dynamic range would be even more important with B&W than it is with color. If your histogram doesn't extend from absolute black to absolute white, I would adjust your exposure and black levels to make it so. There are occasional exceptions to this rule, but in general it will give you a more interesting picture.

 

[boBQuincy]

ok i downloaded the alienskin exposure, it said it installed it in photoshop e4 but when i open photoshop it's the same as before, minus alienskin ...i found the manual and it said to install it the way i did( expect not registration for the demo) so what did i do wrong? i cant' find it any whereon my computer and sure not in photoshp

I don't have Alienskin (might have to see a digital dermatologist) but if it loads actions, they usually have to be loaded in PS before they can be run.
The "Load" command is under the "Actions" menu in the palette.

I would not use the b&w settings in the camera because they are not as good as you can do in PS, and you don't have a color image to use later.

 

[pyrxtc]

what I do is maximize the color photo before you do anything else. Make the pic look like you want to in color and then desaturate it. when that is done, you want to up the contrast slightly or until you like it. But the real key is, love the color version, then convert it. If it doesn't look right in color, sky is not blue grass - is too yellow, then it won't look right in B&W. You could also go into your color channels (don't know if they ahve this option in elements, sorry) and choose the color channel you like the best and delete he other ones. I ahve done it this way too. There is also another way, a free download called Virtual Photographer. Agian, don't know if it's compatible with elements but it has a full range of filters and some convert for you.

 

[MICKEY88]

with paint sho pro, you choose, effects, then photo effects, then black and white film, and it gives you different colored filters to use, and you can preview what each filter will do

 

[Razor Roman]

one thing I have read is different programs convert it different ways, and, for example, in Photoshop you can just "discard all color information" but that they doesn't usually work the best way... you can also use other tools (i'll need my photoshop book to look this up) to combine the three channels of color information in such a way that makes it look much better.

 

[jann1033]

Jann, you do know the XT can take B&W images?

yeah i tried that but i wasn't thrilled with the results. even with the filters applied they just were blaaaa
thanks for all the other tips which i will try momentarily

 

[jann1033]

...I don't have Alienskin (might have to see a digital dermatologist)....

sounds really yucky doesn't it

 

[0bli0]

Jan - as people have pointed out, don't do b&w in camera (although i found out when you do b&w in raw, the colour info is still there, which is cool). anyway, you're losing out on the ability to choose the best parts of each of the channels and also decreased dynamic room for decent contrast.

i will second the recommendation for optikverve Virtual Photographer plugin. it works with photoshop *and* paintshop pro. it has various settings for different styles of shots. i paticularly like the shoebox and (colour) Snap! presets.

i've been very pleased with my mono conversions now that i use Apple Aperture. it's not that the program does it well, btu it's easy for me to do exactly what i used to do in photoshop a little easier.

i don't always process an image to look good in colour. to be honest, there are some of shots that i convert to mono because they don't turn out well in colour. but most of the time i shoot things like the bikes above with a mono conversion in mind.

ok i first convert to mono. in my case i use the monochrome mixer mode. you can desaturate, use 'greyscale', whatever - as long as you have some control over the image afterwards.

i then play with the red, green, and blue channels. i'll start with 100% red - because when i used to shoot b&w film, red filters then slowly decrease the red channel and introduce the green. the image above is the equivalent of a yellow filter - 34% red and 66% green 0% blue. this looked the best (to me) with the various colours of the bikes.

i then i adjusted the contrast at the lower end of the tonal spectrum - very similar to using a curves tool.

lastly i add a touch of colour to give it a nice kodak tri-x feel.


what's important is no method is best. this is especially true because each image is different. what is most fun is the trial and error process. we can do it with the luxury of our own homes, without getting developer and fixer on our fingers (and it's a lot quicker and cheaper, too).

 

[jann1033]

thanks. the bikes do have the "richer" tone i'm after.... just more to learn