Bin Laden - celebrations

[WDSearcher]

I can assure you that we know exactly who "the they" we are talking about in this thread, are. But, I'm pretty you really do know that

Nope. Don't. Or I wouldn't have asked the question.

If you know exactly who "the they" you are talking about are ... I'm simply asking for a definition. I ask because I think that, to many people (perhaps not you specifically), the "they" is a general clump of people in a country or culture group or religion. It's "those people over there". It's kind of like saying "the ugly American" -- you have to define that to have it make sense.

I am genuinely and sincerely curious. When you (you, personally -- not the larger "you") think of "the they", who are you thinking of?

 

[FredinFL]

I'm thinking of the people I saw on TV burning flags, jumping, cheering and gathering in large crowds to celebrate the death of thousands of innocent civilians. Who are you thinking of?

 

[WDSearcher]

"They" are the subset of the world's population who on hearing about the murder of approximately 3,000 people from all over the world in NY, VA, and PA on September 11, 2001 responded with happiness, the burning of American flags, and hope it would happen again. That is who "they" are, nothing more.

Thank you. That's perfect. You're not relating it to a specific country or culture group, and you're not implying all people in said country or culture group feel the same way. You're acknowledging that it's a subset -- nothing more -- of the world's population and that those people could be anywhere.

Nicely stated. (Not that my approval or opinion would make a difference to you ... just sayin'.)

 

[Rora]

BUT....and yes, there is a but, I am disgusted by the celebrations in the streets. Just as much as I was disgusted by seeing muslim celebrations after 9/11.

I agree.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

We have been down this road already...the thread got locked.

And I think one got deleted.

 

[WDSearcher]

I'm thinking of the people I saw on TV burning flags, jumping, cheering and gathering in large crowds to celebrate the death of thousands of innocent civilians. Who are you thinking of?

I'm thinking of the same people. Was just wondering if people are thinking in specifics or generalizations.

For some, "they" are "all Muslims" or "those people in Afghanistan" -- with no real belief that not all people of any given faith or country are part of the group of extremists that they're actually talking about. A lot of folks here tend to talk in generalities; I was just trying to hone in on the specifics. I'm anal-retentive that way.

 

[bumblebee]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars" Martin Luther King Jr

I agree with this.

I'm an American and I, too, think the celebrations were a bit too much. But to each their own. Hopefully those who lost loved ones will find closure.

Freyja, as I'm sure you're well aware, Americans are notoriously ethnocentric.

Sadly, yes, many are.

Like Sara, I would like to get the opinions of others from around the world, not just here. After all, America wasn't the only place that had terrorist attacks occur. Other countries did, too. And other countries are fighting in the wars, as well, or providing supplies, etc. His death affects everyone.

 

[FredinFL]

The race, religion, citizenry really doesn't matter to me. It's what's in the heart. I don't think those things determine if you are evil or not. It's what you are inside that makes you.

 

[GinnyEmma]

Of course the united states isn't the only place terrorists have attacked. But I would never presume to know how people in those countries feel nor would I say how they should feel. I've been to countries where war is the norm. That doesn't make me an expert, nor does it give me anything but a glimpse into their hearts. I resent the self righteous who say how others should or shouldn't feel about the death of the boogeyman.

 

[FireDancer]

Thank you. That's perfect. You're not relating it to a specific country or culture group, and you're not implying all people in said country or culture group feel the same way. You're acknowledging that it's a subset -- nothing more -- of the world's population and that those people could be anywhere.

Nicely stated. (Not that my approval or opinion would make a difference to you ... just sayin'.)

I think most rational people know that every Muslim isn't a terrorist or sympathies with Al-Qaeda. I think a lot of people lose sight that they target other Muslims as often as they target the "infidels". The spur of the moment gut reaction of people moments after an attack or event isn't always indicative of their own feelings let alone those of the majority.

Every religion, country, or region has their collection of hate filled nut jobs. I offer a certain church in Kansas as exhibit A.

 

[luvmy3]

Nope. Don't. Or I wouldn't have asked the question.

If you know exactly who "the they" you are talking about are ... I'm simply asking for a definition. I ask because I think that, to many people (perhaps not you specifically), the "they" is a general clump of people in a country or culture group or religion. It's "those people over there". It's kind of like saying "the ugly American" -- you have to define that to have it make sense.

I am genuinely and sincerely curious. When you (you, personally -- not the larger "you") think of "the they", who are you thinking of?

Then I apologize , I really thought you were just trying to be troublesome. I just have a hard time believeing that anyone could think that some of us don't know who "they" are. I mean if you are an American adult and you were old enough to remember 9/11, then its impossible to not remember the dancing in the street in Palestine after the attacks, at least it is to me. There may have been others, but the ones I am referring to are the ones I saw and its sickening to me that the Americans who were celebrating the news of OBL death are being compared to a bunch of animals who were celebrating the news of 3000 innocent deaths.

 

[luvsJack]

You know ... it's very possible for people to "see the difference" and still not agree with the celebrations. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

And the poster I was talking to specifically said that she could NOT see the difference. So, you comment doesn't follow the chain of that conversation.


As for your question of who "they" are--what was the purpose of that? Are you attempting to "prove" that all of those that don't see a problem with celebrating this man's death are not "intelligent" enough to know that it wasn't all Muslims or all of any one nationality? Because I well know that and I am sure the rest do too. I am not someone who has an issue with anyone of a different color, race, relegion, etc. I do not judge anyone by any of those things. I judge them by their character and by their actions. Their were SOME Muslims who were celebrating the attacks of 9/11. It may have been a very small group. But they were celebrating the deaths of many innocent people; dead simply because they were Americans or simply IN America. We, otoh, were celebrating the death of a monster. A monster who CAUSED all of those senseless deaths. The death we were celebrating was not an innocent person, not a person who was blameless--but someone who would only cause more deaths of innocent people.

He was given the choice to surrender and to live. What choice did he give the victims of 9/11? NONE. He was buried at sea with respect to his relegion. What respect did he give the victims of 9/11? NONE. Please, do not tell me that this monster's death does not give one US citizen the right to celebrate.

 

[NaLisa]

A very interesting CNN article about whether it's morally right to celebrate:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/is-it-morally-right-to-celebrate-bin-ladens-death/?hpt=T1

 

[snapppyd]

I live in New York - does anyone else remember how long the rubble burned? I could smell the smoke for almost two weeks, the twin towers were a part of my landscape and all of a sudden they were gone, replaced by smoke. I had to ride the subway on 9/12 and wonder if the train would be blown up as it approached Grand Central Station.

I don't care who thinks it's wrong, when I heard that we had finally gotten the person responsible, after ten years and countless military lives lost, I felt like celebrating. No, I'm not burning any flags, but I fly mine proudly.

 

[wvjules]

FoxNews is playing clips from 09/11 right now.... I think a lot of people HAVE forgotten.... watch those clips for a minute and then tell me you aren't a little bit satisfied that Bin Laden is dead....

Where has anyone said that they aren't satisified that bin Laden is dead? Has ONE person said that they wish he was still alive?

OK, frejya isn't from America that makes her opinion wrong. But Americans that live here also have the same opinion? Are they wrong too? No one is any less patriotic if they don't like the keggers and partying in the streets celebrating Osama's death.

Am I glad Osama is dead? Hells yea! Am I going to have a keg party to celebrate it? Umm no. Seeing the Phillys/Mets game and the fans reaction to the news was heart warming and almost made me cry. That was patriotism to me. The crowd outside the White House partying, girls being hoisted on guy's shoulders? Not so much. Do they have a right to do it? Absoutely. Do I have a right to not like it? Sure do. That does not make me any less patriotic than those that were there and those that did that type of celebrating. The White House scene almost reminded me of a Frat party...young 20s looking for a reason to party. There is a huge difference between those two types of celebrations.

 

[FredinFL]

A very interesting CNN article about whether it's morally right to celebrate:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/is-it-morally-right-to-celebrate-bin-ladens-death/?hpt=T1

I don't need an article to tell me what I believe is morally right and wrong. I believe it is morally wrong to mass murder. I believe it's morally fine to celebrate the death of evil. Done.

 

[luvmy3]

A very interesting CNN article about whether it's morally right to celebrate:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/is-it-morally-right-to-celebrate-bin-ladens-death/?hpt=T1

The only one who can decide if its morally right to celebrate, is yourself.

 

[NikitaZee]

Where has anyone said that they aren't satisified that bin Laden is dead? Has ONE person said that they wish he was still alive?

OK, frejya isn't from America that makes her opinion wrong. But Americans that live here also have the same opinion? Are they wrong too? No one is any less patriotic if they don't like the keggers and partying in the streets celebrating Osama's death.

Am I glad Osama is dead? Hells yea! Am I going to have a keg party to celebrate it? Umm no. Seeing the Phillys/Mets game and the fans reaction to the news was heart warming and almost made me cry. That was patriotism to me. The crowd outside the White House partying, girls being hoisted on guy's shoulders? Not so much. Do they have a right to do it? Absoutely. Do I have a right to not like it? Sure do. That does not make me any less patriotic than those that were there and those that did that type of celebrating. The White House scene almost reminded me of a Frat party...young 20s looking for a reason to party. There is a huge difference between those two types of celebrations.

Great post. No one here has forgotten what happened on 9/11. It's ridiculous to think that we have. These folks who are implying that are not going to change anyone's mind who disagrees. As far as being Americans, or New Yorkers, or seeing the Towers burn - what is the point being made? I am all of those things. My husband worked at Ground Zero right after the attacks too. And I STILL think the celebrating was inappropriate. That's my opinion, and folks here trying to pull emotional 'trump cards' to prove their point aren't going to change it. I am not wrong. You folks who agree with the celebrating are not wrong. Agree to disagree!!

 

[FredinFL]

Absolutely. I don't care if you don't think celebrating is proper, that's your choice. Just don't look down your nose at those of us who think it is proper. That is our choice.

 

[snapppyd]

Great post. No one here has forgotten what happened on 9/11. It's ridiculous to think that we have. These folks who are implying that are not going to change anyone's mind who disagrees. As far as being Americans, or New Yorkers, or seeing the Towers burn - what is the point being made? I am all of those things. My husband worked at Ground Zero right after the attacks too. And I STILL think the celebrating was inappropriate. That's my opinion, and folks here trying to pull emotional 'trump cards' to prove their point aren't going to change it. I am not wrong. You folks who agree with the celebrating are not wrong. Agree to disagree!!

Exactly.