Between me and my ex, I'm usually the smart one, but this time....

[Ava83]

Here is the website.

http://www.fdic.gov/

of Operation: 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Central Time M - F
Toll Free Number: 1-800-378-9581
Mailing Address:
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
Consumer Response Center
2345 Grand Avenue, Suite 100
Kansas City, MO 64108-2638
Email Address: Consumeralerts@fdic.gov
To File Complaint: FDIC's Electronic Customer Assistance Form

Did you get to him before he signed?

 

[Chuck S]

Bank scams are common this time of year. This one sounds like something internal at the bank, maybe higher than a teller. A teller can not erase all records of an account, it should take a bank officers access code...and there should still be a paper trail.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Please keep us posted as to how this works out. This is wrong on so many levels.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Ok, I can't get in touch with him right now, he is probably inside the bank with his cell off.
I thought about it being an inside job too, how else could there be no record of an account so quickly and how could they authorize a transfer that was so much more than the person had in their account to begin with?
I like the idea of the police report.
I wrote down the number for the FDIC.

I knew if I asked here, that I would get some good answers. If I was looking at all of this from the outside I'm not sure I would believe it, but because it is happening to me, it is a nightmare. My stomach has literally been in knots all day and I'm having trouble focusing on working.
I will let you all know when I have an update.
Thank you so much for all the good advice.

 

[pettyone]

Can anyone advise me on what to do???

Oh boy! That is a nasty one! As a bank auditor, I am appalled at the actions of these people!

I wish I could do the research for you...I'd have that situation remedied for you in a flash!

I agree 100% with JVL1018! It does sound like there wasn't a phantom "closed" account that they can't find (regulatory retention schedule anyone??)...sounds like teller error, with serious emphasis on the data entry part (fumbly fingers?). Generally, an online transfer can only go to a "linked" account...i.e. I can't transfer money online to my coworker because her account and my account aren't linked in any way, shape or form. As far as a transfer completed AT THE BANK, the bank should have a policy that you cannot directly (the definition gets muddy on directly) transfer from one account to another without an agreement in account ownership--and the transaction went into overdraft in his account, which would REQUIRE a supervisory override (dual control/second set of eyes) with at least a $2500 limit...an ATM transfer is virtually impossible...hmmmm...wish I could get my hands on this, I could use a good day of research. Where is the withdrawal slip?? Where is the film footage? Where is the teller log?

Oh, and I would seriously be screaming over them freezing the other account...they should freeze the one that's being investigated to cut the risk of further fraud...they can do that & still allow "normal" activity to occur...too bad they don't seem like they have the time or inclination to service their customer by watching the account...

Keep in mind, that if this transaction was conducted by electronic means, it should be covered by Reg E (Electronic Funds Transfer Act)...they would NOT ask you to cover the funds while they are investigating the unauthorized activity.

You keep talking to people at this institution until you find the one that will dig for you...don't let them off the hook.

Good luck!!

 

[malibuconlee]

You've gotten some great advice here. I know in these situations sometimes it just takes someone outside the situation to give their perspective.

My friend's debit card information was stolen and we're still not sure how. She called me that day to vent. I said it was probably isolated, but wouldn't hurt to check her credit accounts and to pull her credit report jus to check it out. She hadn't yet thought of those things and was happy I had suggested them.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[EthansMom]

Do not "borrow" money from a bank that has allowed money to be removed from your account without your authorization! Personally, I would contact the fraud department of your local police department -- obviously, someone either stole this money or made a big mistake and it doesn't sound like the bank is trying to solve the problem.

Good Luck!

 

[AllyandJack]

I do all of my banking online. I transfer money between accounts regularly and it always shows up on my statement (online and paper) as a transfer to XXX account. If this transaction was done online, as they say, there is an even bigger paper trail. He should access his account online and get a look at the transaction for himself.

 

[pettyone]

My friend's debit card information was stolen and we're still not sure how. She called me that day to vent. I said it was probably isolated, but wouldn't hurt to check her credit accounts and to pull her credit report jus to check it out. She hadn't yet thought of those things and was happy I had suggested them.

Debit card fraud is rampant...most of the fraud we see in Knoxville is from service industry personnel (restaurant, hotel, etc.) writing down numbers and then using them for online purchases (don't require a pin or signature)...that, or people who hack into card processing websites & get millions of card numbers and use a few, sell the rest...it stinks!

You HAVE to watch your bank statements and credit card statements...there is consumer protection available (Regulation E), but you have to ACT.

Getting off of my soapbox...

 

[CajunDixie]

When we had money stolen from our CU account they told us it basically how it was done. Someone literally walked into a "sister" CU in another state and withdrew our money. DH had to sign a statement saying if the FBI caught the person we would allow the CU to press charges.

Another issue we had once was DS15 cashed a check. Technically they don't "cash" checks. They deposit them in your savings then let you withdraw cash. When he came out to the car he asked me to put the reciept in my purse. I looked at it and it had someone else's account info on it. I guess they think DS looks like a Maria

He should in no way sign a paper saying he'll pay anything back. I'd even go so far as to call the local police and report the "theft" if the bank doesn't cooperate.

 

[malibuconlee]

The thing that really made my friend mad was that she got married in March. Around that time she got a letter saying that some information from the bank had been compromised and the customers could either get new cards, or just watch their statements.

Since she needed to get a new card for her name change she decided to have them change the number at the same time. Only problem was, they didn't "hot card" the old debit card. Their term for cancelling. It was the old card information that was being used. All in Florida mostly in amounts of $75 or $100. Even amounts at gas stations, and one other amount at a grocery store. She lives in Iowa and hasn't been to Florida in over 5 years.

Why didn't they cancel that card and information six months ago? She did get her money back but it took over a week.

 

[RUDisney]

I manage the MIS and Computer Operations (Proof) areas of my bank. My first advice to you is to get your accounts moved to another institution that actually offers customer service to its customers.

I, like Pettyone, would be happy to do the research on this myself. I'd have it figured out in no time... but then again, I actually know where all of the information is stored and all of the access to them is online, so I'd never have to leave my desk.

First of all, there should be a record in the teller's electronic journal that shows to where the money went. Secondly, the transaction was processed through the system as paper items. These would have the signature that authorized the transaction on them. If they were captured at the teller line and not sent to item processing, there is still a period during which the items should not be destroyed. Finally, every teller transaction that hits the host is recorded on a posting journal that should be saved for 3-7 years.

What I cannot understand is why the bank did not have your ex sign an indemnity or affidavit form that states that he did not take the money nor did he authorized the transaction. I thought that Reg E specifically states how long a bank has to provide credit, even provisionally, to a customer who claims a forgery or fraudulent transaction. I'll check when I send this and I'll let you know.

I wouldn't start by complaining to the FDIC, unless that is the organization by which your bank is regulated. It could be the OCC or the Fed. The bank should be able to tell you what regulator governs them.

I'd also call the Compliance Officer of the bank and talk to that individual. If the branch is not following procedures and giving you no satisfaction, the Compliance Officer can see if they are violating any policies or federal regulations.

So, that's how I see it in the real world of banking.

However, the fact that a lawyer advised your ex to pay back the bank has me believing that there is more to this than your ex is admitting. I could be wrong, but the lawyers I know are more about working for their clients when it comes to a bank error than immediately telling them to pay the bank. Are you sure that there is no IRS lien that was placed on the account and then paid to the IRS? This seems far-fetched to me because banks typically only remit what is in the account and not the total that the IRS wants. Why would a bank pay the entire amount of a lien only to be left holding the bag if its customer doesn't pay it back?

If the facts are exactly as you know them, the bank should be doing far more to get satisfactory answers for him. BTW, if it was because of a lien, even if it wasn't really his and a clerk got fat fingers typing it into the system, the bank has records of that, too. It's not a matter of, "we don't know what happened so you have to pay us back."

 

[RUDisney]

Here is what Reg E says about the timing and recrediting of a customer's account who files a complaint. I found this at: http://www.bankersonline.com/regs/205/205-11.html

(c) Time limits and extent of investigation--(1) Ten-day period. A financial institution shall investigate promptly and, except as otherwise provided in this paragraph (c), shall determine whether an error occurred within 10 business days of receiving a notice of error. The institution shall report the results to the consumer within three business days after completing its investigation. The institution shall correct the error within one business day after determining that an error occurred.
(2) Forty-five day period. If the financial institution is unable to complete its investigation within 10 business days, the institution may take up to 45 days from receipt of a notice of error to investigate and determine whether an error occurred, provided the institution does the following:
(i) Provisionally credits the consumer's account in the amount of the alleged error (including interest where applicable) within 10 business days of receiving the error notice. If the financial institution has a reasonable basis for believing that an unauthorized electronic fund transfer has occurred and the institution has satisfied the requirements of Sec. 205.6(a), the institution may withhold a maximum of $50 from the amount credited. An institution need not provisionally credit the consumer's account if:
(A) The institution requires but does not receive written confirmation within 10 business days of an oral notice of error; or
(B) The alleged error involves an account that is subject to Regulation T (Securities Credit by Brokers and Dealers, 12 CFR part 220);
(ii) Informs the consumer, within two business days after the provisional crediting, of the amount and date of the provisional crediting and gives the consumer full use of the funds during the investigation;
(iii) Corrects the error, if any, within one business day after determining that an error occurred; and
(iv) Reports the results to the consumer within three business days after completing its investigation (including, if applicable, notice that a provisional credit has been made final).
(3) Extension of time periods. The time periods in paragraphs (c)(1) and (c)(2) of this section are extended as follows:
(i) The applicable time is 20 business days in place of 10 business days under paragraphs (c)(1) and (c)(2) of this section if the notice of error involves an electronic fund transfer to or from the account within 30 days after the first deposit to the account was made.
(ii) The applicable time is 90 days in place of 45 days under paragraph (c)(2) of this section, for completing an investigation, if a notice of error involves an electronic fund transfer that:
(A) Was not initiated within a state;
(B) Resulted from a point-of-sale debit card transaction; or
(C) Occurred within 30 days after the first deposit to the account was made.

 

[pettyone]

Around that time she got a letter saying that some information from the bank had been compromised and the customers could either get new cards, or just watch their statements.

Only problem was, they didn't "hot card" the old debit card. Their term for cancelling. It was the old card information that was being used.

Why didn't they cancel that card and information six months ago? She did get her money back but it took over a week.

Unfortunately, when debit card information is compromised, it is USUALLY not compromised at the bank level, or even by any company that the bank itself does business with; however, the bank is required to notify customers that a breach has occured, regardless of where it actually happened (again, mostly by third party processors...usually online). Whenever you use your debit card, the trail that it follows until settlement--invisible to you--could have multiple "stopping" points & who knows how long the information is stored there (again, not at the bank)???

The bank did drop the ball by not "hot carding" the old card...a big oops on their part!

Our bank is small, 22 branches, $1billion in assets, but we have had 6-figure debit card losses that didn't originate "internally"...it is absolutely frightening!

Glad your friend got her money back!

 

[pettyone]

Here is what Reg E says about the timing and recrediting of a customer's account who files a complaint. I found this at: http://www.bankersonline.com/regs/205/205-11.html

Don't we love Reg E and Banker's Online!

 

[leighe]

It sounds fishy to me because there is no record of the account the money was supposedly moved in to. My dad had an employee recently who was stealing money and was able to get my brother, my sister, DH's, and my ss #'s. When we found out we all checked our credit reports and I was able to get records of a bank account I had had in college and closed 4 years ago.

I wouldn't sign anything or agree to any payments at all whatsoever!

 

[laurie31]

I haven't read all the replies, but something like this happened to us, too. We got a notice saying we were overdrawn - a $40,000 check had been posted to our account! Holy cow!!! We didn't put that much down on the house! I couldn't fathom a check of that size - of course neither of us wrote it. Well, the bank INSISTED that it was not and COULD NOT be their error (which REALLY ticked me off, as I am a nurse and we have umpteen billion safeguards in place to prevent mistakes, but people are human and things happen. To say it was not possible for thier to have been a mistake was...well - a mistake!!)

SO they wanted us to call the police and file fraud charges etc. They did get us a virtually illegible scanned copy of the check. Eventually we were able to figure out that it came from a local buisiness. Their account number is one digit different than ours. Guess what? The bank employee miskeyed it. We still had to go through all kinds of um...stuff getting our account back in order. They also totally wiped out our savings, because we had overdraft protection. Even after all that came out about the error - THEIR error - they were not going to give us our savings back! DH had to go to the bank in person and meet with the manager. It was horrible. And we never get get an apology. If we didn't have so many things direct deposited and direct debited, we would have changed banks. Not because of the error, but because of their inability to recognise that an error was possible and then their inability to apologize when it was obvious that they had indeed made an error.

As you can see, I'm still not over this

I hope you are able to get your situation resoved and I truly feel for you. I thought you were innocent until proven guilty in the USA but apparently that doesn't hold true in banks

Laurie

 

[RUDisney]

Wow, Tracy! Your debit card losses are huge! We've been lucky and ours are no where near that.... not even in the parking lot of your arena. We're a billion dollar bank with 18 offices, but then again, you're in a larger city than we are.

Yes, we love Banker's Online! It helps with answers to so many questions.

 

[RUDisney]

I haven't read all the replies, but something like this happened to us, too. We got a notice saying we were overdrawn - a $40,000 check had been posted to our account! Holy cow!!! We didn't put that much down on the house! I couldn't fathom a check of that size - of course neither of us wrote it. Well, the bank INSISTED that it was not and COULD NOT be their error (which REALLY ticked me off, as I am a nurse and we have umpteen billion safeguards in place to prevent mistakes, but people are human and things happen. To say it was not possible for thier to have been a mistake was...well - a mistake!!)

SO they wanted us to call the police and file fraud charges etc. They did get us a virtually illegible scanned copy of the check. Eventually we were able to figure out that it came from a local buisiness. Their account number is one digit different than ours. Guess what? The bank employee miskeyed it. We still had to go through all kinds of um...stuff getting our account back in order. They also totally wiped out our savings, because we had overdraft protection. Even after all that came out about the error - THEIR error - they were not going to give us our savings back! DH had to go to the bank in person and meet with the manager. It was horrible. And we never get get an apology. If we didn't have so many things direct deposited and direct debited, we would have changed banks. Not because of the error, but because of their inability to recognise that an error was possible and then their inability to apologize when it was obvious that they had indeed made an error.

As you can see, I'm still not over this

I hope you are able to get your situation resoved and I truly feel for you. I thought you were innocent until proven guilty in the USA but apparently that doesn't hold true in banks

Laurie

Don't think this happens in all banks. We are VERY customer oriented and would bend over backwards for a customer. If you want better service, you can find it and make it better for others by taking your accounts somewhere else. That is the only thing that some banks understand. To remain with them tells them that everything was ok with the way they handled this problem.

Furthermore, they not only should have apologized to you, they should have written letters to anyone to whom they sent back your checks saying that it was there error and not yours. They also should have refunded any money that you had to pay to your payees because of a returned check. (If there were any.)

 

[Mom2be]

Okay I work for a national bank as well and have been in banking for 5 years.

Your ex wants to speak to the operations manager, he might have to do this over the phone. The ops manager will do all the reconciling for the branch including transfer. Either 3 things happened.
1) Your ex transferred funds and put in one to many zeros (happens all the time!)

2) Some miskeyed in a transfer on the bank level and used your ex's account number instead of the correct number.

3) Someone is committing fraud.

~Amanda