Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[TiggerBouncy]

Except genie + is far from everything that’s wrong with Disney right now. It’s so much more than that. I think anyone can go and still have magical time, but for each person or family it’s an assessment of value. The WDWexperience as a whole has to hold enough value for people to come away feeling good about it. You need something to offset the mess of genie+ and I don’t think there’s much to do that currently.
People who were upset about FP+ weren’t also dealing with issues like lack of mousekeeping, transportation and dining issues, missing shows and experiences (fantasmic, character meets and autographs), staffing issues etc etc. it’s everything all at once and then this facade that Chapek and his minions want to put on that everything is just all good… eck.

Fair enough. Except lets not forget that this is not all Chapek's fault. A lot of this was put in motion prior to his stewardship and the global pandemic might have played a little part in all of this mess, too. But I can't argue that he's out there with the biggest stick of lipstick he can find putting it all over that pig.

There was a test of the base Genie done by Touring Plans.......base Genie is a joke.

It basically avoided anything with a line and so the people were doing 2nd and 3rd tier rides.

Yeah... I played with Genie while I was there. It kept telling me that I would enjoy sitting and listening to it drone on about something or another since there was nothing that actually had a reasonable line. The last thing I wanted to do was stand outside SDD listening to a podcast about it rather than riding it. I must have spent half my day clicking on activities and telling it to remove it from my day.

 

[mom2rtk]

Regarding previous complaints with FP+ about not being able to get all the FPs they wanted... that problem has always existed, no matter which system was in effect.

When legacy FP was around, the FP kiosks had distributed all of the FP tickets for the day pretty early for popular rides. Those who arrived a little later in the day complained that the "good" FPs were all sold out already.

Under FP+, the FPs for popular rides sold out at 60+x days. People who stayed offsite or had shorter onsite stays complained that the "good" FPs were all sold out already.

Under G+, the LLs for some popular rides sell out within seconds at 7 am. People who don't get one (slow phone/WiFi, glitch, etc.) complain that the "good" LLs are sold out (on top of now paying for the chance to compete for one of the limited number of LLs).

The underlying problem has always been that there are too many people vying for a limited number of FP/FP+/LL slots. No app is ever going to solve this. It can only shuffle around which people get blocked out because there's not enough supply to meet the demand.

This was and always will be about Disney not wanting to build enough ride capacity to fill the needs for the ever increasing crowds. Instead, they just keep switching around systems. It distracts people for a while, but eventually everyone gets back to the fact that there isn't enough to serve the crowds coming through the gates. The winners and losers change a bit with each change, but it never fixes the root problem. It's like a giant shell game.

 

[Westerner]

I remember one point from the YT video Disney's Fastpass: A Complicated History that comes to mind. That Disney spent a ton of money on the old FP+ and Magicband system without a clear return on investment. I suspect that's one of the reasons they decided to charge for G+/$ILL vs FP+ which I think was essentially a bundled onsite room perk.

 

[Davey Jones II]

That's hilarious. Lucky for you, though! Indiana Jones is hands-down the best ride at DL.

I might have "helped" the luck, by keeping my thumb on the date and only showing the time to the CM

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

There was a test of the base Genie done by Touring Plans.......base Genie is a joke.

It basically avoided anything with a line and so the people were doing 2nd and 3rd tier rides.

In other words, working as designed... to re-distribute guests to "under-utilized" attractions. Every person who did what the genie told them to (i.e., watch cartoons at the Imagination pavilion, etc.) was one less person adding to the already long lines at the popular rides.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Please tell us how you are now going into HS and riding multiple headliners with no wait. We would all like to hear this strategy.

Sarcasm noted. Not exactly sure why it's not like I have a vested interest in you liking or hating Genie+ I am just sharing my thoughts, same as you.

I already explained it but here is my real life example from Feb 10, 2022: Woke up at 7am and booked SD for 3pm-ish. Next booked ROTR ILL$ for 12:50pm. Then booked MMRR ILL$ for 11am-ish. This was all before 7:02. Went back to sleep. Walked in park later with 3 headliners. And it would have worked more easily at the other 3 parks because at MK you don't even have to get up at 7am everything is available at 8 or even 9am.

Now it looks like some rides have been moved to regular Genie+ so it is now TWO headliners and not 3....but under FP+ it was one and only one when you walked in.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

This was and always will be about Disney not wanting to build enough ride capacity to fill the needs for the ever increasing crowds. Instead, they just keep switching around systems. It distracts people for a while, but eventually everyone gets back to the fact that there isn't enough to serve the crowds coming through the gates. The winners and losers change a big with each change, but it never fixes the root problem. It's like a giant shell game.

Looks like you haven't been to WDW in....10 years? unless your signature isn't updated?

Our last trip in Feb - and really every trip - there was just TOO MUCH to do...(and everyone I saw seemed to be having a blast.) you can't possibly get to everything....and not becasue of lines...we wait maybe 45 mins for anything, tops. We've been 10 times since 2005 and there are still things I haven't gotten to.

 

[Westerner]

Fastpass Plus Sucks!

This thread from 2015 was an interesting read. OP, staying offsite, complains about not being able to get any good passes 30 days out and is criticized for choosing FP+'s with late times b/c apparently back then you couldn't book a 4th FP+ day of til you used the 3rd.

Plus ça change...

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

Fair enough, and Disney is never going to release that kind of information, so we will never know with 100% certainty.

But we can say that empirical evidence is that it was a widespread problem that people were not able to get their FP+ selections at either 30 or 60 days out, that it had been complained about extensively both on social media (which pre-pandemic during the development of Genie was being monitored by Disney and in tweets directed to Disney) and directly to Disney (if even a small percentage of people who said they were going to complain followed through, then Disney received a lot of complaints) and that it was a question of which Disney was focused on during the development of Genie (based on survey's which were taken at the parks). We also know that Disney spent a lot of time cracking down on various loopholes to FP+.

On top of that, as a manager for software developers, if I were given the task of developing Genie - besides shooting myself the next day - I would have gone online and looked at the current issues people were experiencing and that one was hard to miss.

So while I agree with your premise that we can not say with any 100% certainly, I think we can say that it's highly, highly probable. Which in science is about all you can ever say.

Well, if Disney is responsive to complaints, hopefully they'll be responsive to complaints about G+ as well. Anecdotally, at least, it seems to me that the wave of complaints behind G+ is much larger than the opposition to FP+. So maybe they'll start changing or at least tweaking things soon.

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

My biggest two complains prior to G+ was: (1) if you stayed off site, you had zero chance to get decent FP+, and (2) I had no idea what I would want to ride on what day. The planning was awful.

What G+ does do is put more money into Disney's pocketbook while providing a lot of data to Disney.

I was the total opposite - when planning a trip I loved the process of making spreadsheets and going over them, envisioning "The Big Day", ha ha. It was a way of extending the vacation mentally - savoring the details, scouring the internet for "finds" (from a little known snack somewhere in the park to a dessert party to activities like finding hidden Mickey's in a certain spot), adding a little flourish or extra here and there, and so on. That said, that's just my personality in general. I'm the planner of family holidays, birthday parties, various kids activities, and so on. Someone who doesn't like that type of thing sees it as being "locked in" to plans in a restrictive way, for people like me, it felt like an act of creativity - the chance to design something amazing.

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

I would prefer not to go back right now - not because of G+ alone, but because of G+ in addition to the overcrowding and lack of activities I keep hearing about in the parks.

 

[Boardwalk III]

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

Me! We just canceled our first trip in over 20 years. We were supposed to be down at BWV in a 2 BR Villa the first week of April. Booked 11 months in advance. However we had our first trip back in November and found G+ to be a miserable experience. So much so that none of us want to go back right now, even though we have AP’s and will likely not use them a second time as we come from the Northeast. Sigh.

 

[DizneyLizzy]

I think people tend to gloss over the "good old days" of FP+. Go back and look at the threads. You will see HUNDREDS of threads about "NO SDD at 60+3 days" or "I can't get FOP" - one of the reasons why we can't prebook Genie+ selections is because one of the biggest complaints on these and other social media's was that at <whatever days before visit> you couldn't get your SDD or TSMM or FOP or whatever it was you wanted.

The problem with the old FP+ system is that you could book x days + days of your trip. So people who stayed 10 days had an advantage over those staying 3 days and people who stayed 3 days pretty much never got any tier 1 rides. People staying offsite were just up the creek. Every day on here I would see dozens of threads about how Disney was only for the rich who could stay 5+ days onsite and the average person couldn't get their rides because they can't afford a week or couldn't afford the exorbitant prices of staying onsite. Basic going reference was at any time SDD was at 60+3 days and FOP at 60+4.

Despite always staying onsite, I was never able to get a FP+ for FOP, and rarely for SDD, but that was fine with me bc I knew that in advance of my trip and could plan around it. My expectations were set before my vacation even started. The daily stress and unknowns are what I dislike most about Genie+ (well, second of course to the resentment I feel when paying for something that used to be included, but that’s a foregone conclusion)

 

[DisneySongbird]

I was the total opposite - when planning a trip I loved the process of making spreadsheets and going over them, envisioning "The Big Day", ha ha. It was a way of extending the vacation mentally - savoring the details, scouring the internet for "finds" (from a little known snack somewhere in the park to a dessert party to activities like finding hidden Mickey's in a certain spot), adding a little flourish or extra here and there, and so on. That said, that's just my personality in general. I'm the planner of family holidays, birthday parties, various kids activities, and so on. Someone who doesn't like that type of thing sees it as being "locked in" to plans in a restrictive way, for people like me, it felt like an act of creativity - the chance to design something amazing.

I appreciate that a lot of people think this way, but for me personally, I'm an aggressive anti-planner when I'm on vacation.

I get more than enough of planning and schedules and coordinating during my day job and regular life: the only planning I want to do for my vacation is "where am I going, where am I staying, how am I getting there/around" and as soon as the flights/car/hotel are booked, everything in between arrival and departure gets marked as 'figure it out as we go' on my calendar.

Luckily, as someone who doesn't really care for rides - I've had multiple trips to Disney where I rode zero attractions for a week - neither FP+ nor G+ has really phased me. No problem that I'm shut out of Rise or FOP for refusing to book them in advance, I wasn't ever really invested in riding them anyway: I'm much more interested in touring the World Showcase and meeting fascinating people from around the world, taking in the streetmosphere in each park, soaking in the magic of being in this place that is bubbled off from my everyday life, people watching, that kind of thing.

My absolute line in the sand, if anything, is park pass reservations - I absolutely will not book another trip until that system is either gone for regular ticket purchases or not applicable to resort guests. It is completely antithetical to the way I want to vacation, which is deciding what to do when I wake up based on what mood strikes me.

But even if they get rid of park reservations and restore all-day park hopping, it'll then be the lack of entertainment, no international program, effectively no good TS options for day of booking, and so on keeping me from finalizing my next trip to Disney. Every missing piece of entertainment and every lost opportunity for spontaneous decision making and every single time the answer to "how can I enjoy X here at Disney" is "go back in time and book it 60 days ago" makes the prospect of returning to Disney less and less attractive to me. I can have a wonderful vacation while never boarding a single ride vehicle. I can't have a wonderful vacation if there's nothing else to do.

 

[mom2rtk]

Looks like you haven't been to WDW in....10 years? unless your signature isn't updated?

Our last trip in Feb - and really every trip - there was just TOO MUCH to do...(and everyone I saw seemed to be having a blast.) you can't possibly get to everything....and not becasue of lines...we wait maybe 45 mins for anything, tops. We've been 10 times since 2005 and there are still things I haven't gotten to.

LOL, I was there in January. And lots of other times before then. My signature gives links to my trip reports. It doesn't recount all of my trips. I actually stopped doing trip reports when people started mining through them looking for bits to argue with me about on threads like this.

We've been many times since 2004 when we started going regularly. I feel like we've done it all, or at least everything we want to do. Many many times. I have a good perspective on how to get things done. And it continues getting harder and harder to get those things done.

We've also been to DLR many times over that time frame. On balance, that's usually a more enjoyable experience because there are more attractions to spread out the crowds. Lots of other reasons, but that's a big one. I expect G+ to work better there as well because of it.

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

I appreciate that a lot of people think this way, but for me personally, I'm an aggressive anti-planner when I'm on vacation.

I get more than enough of planning and schedules and coordinating during my day job and regular life: the only planning I want to do for my vacation is "where am I going, where am I staying, how am I getting there/around" and as soon as the flights/car/hotel are booked, everything in between arrival and departure gets marked as 'figure it out as we go' on my calendar.

Luckily, as someone who doesn't really care for rides - I've had multiple trips to Disney where I rode zero attractions for a week - neither FP+ nor G+ has really phased me. No problem that I'm shut out of Rise or FOP for refusing to book them in advance, I wasn't ever really invested in riding them anyway: I'm much more interested in touring the World Showcase and meeting fascinating people from around the world, taking in the streetmosphere in each park, soaking in the magic of being in this place that is bubbled off from my everyday life, people watching, that kind of thing.

My absolute line in the sand, if anything, is park pass reservations - I absolutely will not book another trip until that system is either gone for regular ticket purchases or not applicable to resort guests. It is completely antithetical to the way I want to vacation, which is deciding what to do when I wake up based on what mood strikes me.

But even if they get rid of park reservations and restore all-day park hopping, it'll then be the lack of entertainment, no international program, effectively no good TS options for day of booking, and so on keeping me from finalizing my next trip to Disney. Every missing piece of entertainment and every lost opportunity for spontaneous decision making and every single time the answer to "how can I enjoy X here at Disney" is "go back in time and book it 60 days ago" makes the prospect of returning to Disney less and less attractive to me. I can have a wonderful vacation while never boarding a single ride vehicle. I can't have a wonderful vacation if there's nothing else to do.

I can understand your mindset because I’m very different about planning depending on the situation. When it comes to any kind of trip - even just to visit family - I plan every last detail, bring activities for their kids, find local excursions, and so on. But on weekends I never plan anything - I want to wake up and see “what kind of day it is”. I hate waking up on a Saturday knowing that I “have” to do something and usually by the time the weekend rolls around I no longer want to do whatever it was that I’d planned, or at least not at that particular time. Having a toddler probably has a lot to do with that - the advice for toddlers is always “have a schedule!” but in my experience this is just a recipe for struggling with your child all day. Trying to get them to eat at the “scheduled” time when they’re not actually hungry, sleep at the scheduled time when they’re not tired, go on an outing at the scheduled time when, for the first time all day they are fully immersed in independent play with their cars…. I gather other toddlers do beautifully with a schedule but it’s never worked with my little one. So I get how plans can seem like an obligation and a drag in some situations and like an exciting blueprint in others.

Regarding the lack of performers, parades, etc. in Disney - I’ve seen so many reviews complaining that “the magic is gone!” or “Disney feels like any other theme park now!” but not really being more specific… I wonder if this is a part of it. Even for people who don’t specifically seek those things out on a trip, walking through that type of ambiance as you make your way from ride to ride probably adds to the overall mood and experience.

 

[DavidNYC]

I think people tend to gloss over the "good old days" of FP+. Go back and look at the threads. You will see HUNDREDS of threads about "NO SDD at 60+3 days" or "I can't get FOP" - one of the reasons why we can't prebook Genie+ selections is because one of the biggest complaints on these and other social media's was that at <whatever days before visit> you couldn't get your SDD or TSMM or FOP or whatever it was you wanted.

The problem with the old FP+ system is that you could book x days + days of your trip. So people who stayed 10 days had an advantage over those staying 3 days and people who stayed 3 days pretty much never got any tier 1 rides. People staying offsite were just up the creek. Every day on here I would see dozens of threads about how Disney was only for the rich who could stay 5+ days onsite and the average person couldn't get their rides because they can't afford a week or couldn't afford the exorbitant prices of staying onsite. Basic going reference was at any time SDD was at 60+3 days and FOP at 60+4.

So now Disney has given you what you asked for. No pro-booking. Fair for all.

It's time to remind people the old adage about "the only thing worse then not getting what you ask for, is getting it".


Some reminders for those who have 'forgotten' the past.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/disappointing-fast-pass-morning-today.3784264
https://www.disboards.com/threads/lack-of-fp-options.3798831
https://www.disboards.com/threads/sdd-at-60-2.3772800
https://www.disboards.com/threads/fastpasses-hard-to-get.3785333
https://www.disboards.com/threads/chances-of-slinky-or-fopassage-fp-at-60-2.3768814
+ thousands more...

Except not really. Still getting some ILL rides gone before offsite people even get a chance to book them. Also - there's a huge difference between knowing what rides you could and couldn't get 30 days in advance allowing you to plan your schedule around it. So now you have people with a reservation at DHS who find themselves unable to get RotR, unable to get SDD or getting a time in the evening, etc. and now they're also locked into that park until 2pm and had to wake up at 7am to now discover on their vacation that the day the planned is basically not going to be what they wanted it to be. The ONLY advantage with the new system is it makes that first LL a little easier to get for some of the rides you couldn't get before (but even then - you have to pay for most of those and those onsite get a 2 hour head start eliminating nearly all of that advantage to begin with. And the trade offs are enormous. None of the things you mentioned about what people were complaining about have really been corrected by this system - if anything they've been exacerbated and those staying off site I'd say are in a far worse position than before - still likely to have trouble getting many rides they'd like at a convenient time for them but now having to deal with it at 7am every morning and having limited ability to change plans around it. So I dispute that Disney has done anything whatsoever to change the "Disney is only for the rich" complaint. I think most people would agree they've gone further in that direction rather than actually address any of the complaints about FP+. (And - yes - Disney gave an advantage to those on-site. A perfectly logical perk whether you like it or not. All they've done with this system is make life harder for everyone while not making it easier for anyone.)

 

[TiggerBouncy]

This was and always will be about Disney not wanting to build enough ride capacity to fill the needs for the ever increasing crowds. Instead, they just keep switching around systems. It distracts people for a while, but eventually everyone gets back to the fact that there isn't enough to serve the crowds coming through the gates. The winners and losers change a bit with each change, but it never fixes the root problem. It's like a giant shell game.

So this has been curious to me. Back in 2014, I remember not having nearly as many issues with rides. October/ November and Jan/Feb were 'quiet' months in which we could generally get what we wanted. There is no 'quiet' time anymore - and I am not talking post-pandemic - all cards are off the table because of COVID. But around 2017+, it got crazy and there was no longer a quiet time to go. Some of that Disney managed by making events like RunDisney.... But the number of actual visitors didn't go up THAT much. So I am not sure how with only about 1 million extra visitors the rides became that log jammed.

But keep in mind this is part of why Disney is upping the cost of tickets so much and halting AP's - to reduce the number of visitors. So a lot of what we complain about is actually them trying to address the criticism. We just don't like it because we would rather them make more rides. More rides takes time though... a lot of time and a lot of money. Plus.... if they have reason to believe the crowds are not sustainable, then they will over-expand... and that's worse. There is no easy way back from that.

Despite always staying onsite, I was never able to get a FP+ for FOP, and rarely for SDD, but that was fine with me bc I knew that in advance of my trip and could plan around it. My expectations were set before my vacation even started. The daily stress and unknowns are what I dislike most about Genie+ (well, second of course to the resentment I feel when paying for something that used to be included, but that’s a foregone conclusion)

This is of course a very fair point toward FP+ despite it's frustrations. You knew what you were not going to be able to do and you could come up with strategies (like getting up early or staying late) to deal. I still think AT SOME POINT Disney is going to allow some people to pre-book. The technology is imbedded in G+. They just do not have it enabled right now. But the system is still new and has a lot of kinks to work out first before they can do that.

 

[Westerner]

Except not really. Still getting some ILL rides gone before offsite people even get a chance to book them. Also - there's a huge difference between knowing what rides you could and couldn't get 30 days in advance allowing you to plan your schedule around it. So now you have people with a reservation at DHS who find themselves unable to get RotR, unable to get SDD or getting a time in the evening, etc. and now they're also locked into that park until 2pm and had to wake up at 7am to now discover on their vacation that the day the planned is basically not going to be what they wanted it to be. The ONLY advantage with the new system is it makes that first LL a little easier to get for some of the rides you couldn't get before (but even then - you have to pay for most of those and those onsite get a 2 hour head start eliminating nearly all of that advantage to begin with. And the trade offs are enormous. None of the things you mentioned about what people were complaining about have really been corrected by this system - if anything they've been exacerbated and those staying off site I'd say are in a far worse position than before - still likely to have trouble getting many rides they'd like at a convenient time for them but now having to deal with it at 7am every morning and having limited ability to change plans around it. So I dispute that Disney has done anything whatsoever to change the "Disney is only for the rich" complaint. I think most people would agree they've gone further in that direction rather than actually address any of the complaints about FP+. (And - yes - Disney gave an advantage to those on-site. A perfectly logical perk whether you like it or not. All they've done with this system is make life harder for everyone while not making it easier for anyone.)

From my perspective the ride access gap between offsite and onsite has narrowed considerably under G+/$ILL. Offsite now has equal access to everything except the top $ILL's: RotR, FoP, 7DMT, RAT and has a pretty good shot at all but RotR. The value prop of onsite IMO has declined with elimination of perks and I've read multiple reviews complaining of delays with WDW transportation. RotR $ILL and EMH for deluxe resorts are now the only things making me envious of onsite.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Except not really. Still getting some ILL rides gone before offsite people even get a chance to book them. Also - there's a huge difference between knowing what rides you could and couldn't get 30 days in advance allowing you to plan your schedule around it. So now you have people with a reservation at DHS who find themselves unable to get RotR, unable to get SDD or getting a time in the evening, etc. and now they're also locked into that park until 2pm and had to wake up at 7am to now discover on their vacation that the day the planned is basically not going to be what they wanted it to be. The ONLY advantage with the new system is it makes that first LL a little easier to get for some of the rides you couldn't get before (but even then - you have to pay for most of those and those onsite get a 2 hour head start eliminating nearly all of that advantage to begin with. And the trade offs are enormous. None of the things you mentioned about what people were complaining about have really been corrected by this system - if anything they've been exacerbated and those staying off site I'd say are in a far worse position than before - still likely to have trouble getting many rides they'd like at a convenient time for them but now having to deal with it at 7am every morning and having limited ability to change plans around it. So I dispute that Disney has done anything whatsoever to change the "Disney is only for the rich" complaint. I think most people would agree they've gone further in that direction rather than actually address any of the complaints about FP+. (And - yes - Disney gave an advantage to those on-site. A perfectly logical perk whether you like it or not. All they've done with this system is make life harder for everyone while not making it easier for anyone.)

I do agree Disney has raised the cost across the board. And I agree AP holders and offsite guests are at a disadvantage.

But with respect to the bolded part what is wrong with getting there at park open and going right to ROTR or SDD? that knocks out one. the other could be done a different day...or at night. or wait in line. 90 minutes is bad for SDD I agree...but not vacation-ruining bad.

I get that it isn't ideal compared to what onsite guests can do....but under FP+ you couldn't get these both either.

 

[MainMom]

From my perspective the ride access gap between offsite and onsite has narrowed considerably under G+/$ILL. Offsite now has equal access to everything except the top $ILL's: RotR, FoP, 7DMT, RAT and has a pretty good shot at all but RotR. The value prop of onsite IMO has declined with elimination of perks and I've read multiple reviews complaining of delays with WDW transportation. RotR $ILL and EMH for deluxe resorts are now the only things making me envious of onsite.

Yes. I think the bubble is going to deflate sooner or later.
We stayed offsite for the first time ever January 2021 and really enjoyed it. The only reason we are onsite in June is because of DVC points that need to be used. Offsite is becoming more attractive to my family. This upcoming trip will probably decide It for me one way or the other (If prices, lack of perks, & G+ issues stay the same.)