Being the bully or being bullied?

[mickeyboat]

DD9 went through something similar in 3rd grade. I was really hard on her - accusing her of being a bully, etc. I got way too involved.

You know what, it all blew over. The three main girls who were involved were separated into three different classrooms, and the problem went away.

I know this is really tough, OP. Good luck!

 

[DisneyMomx7]

As a mother of 7 I've seen a lot and I have to say I agree with RobinB. I think the OP is only getting the side of the story that her dd and her "BFF" want her to hear. Third and Fourth grade girls can be brutal - and it doesn't have to be in your face mean.

No, my dd's weren't bullied but I've seen enough to know that there really are three sides to every story. IMHO OP is way too involved in all the drama.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Principal calls today to say that there is a meeting set up with parents, school liason officer, and pyschologist on Wed and it would happen if we are there or not. BFF's dad goes to talk to principal today, and she tells him that it is because of kids like my daugher and her BFF that kids either bring guns to school or commit suicide. When DH called principal back about the meeting she tells her that people have seen DD hit girl C on the bus, so he again asked bus driver tonight about it, and bus driver says no that has not happened, if anything DD and BFF got on bus first today after school and sat together , then girl C gets in the seat behind them and proceeds to sit far enough forward to listen into DD and BFF.

The adults in charge at school are accepting at face-value everything that C is telling them, I think they should have probably just stayed out of it and let the girls handle things on their own. No one has pushed, shoved or laid their hands on this kid. No one has reported any verbal abuse. No one has reported any threatening behavior. No one has reported either the OP's DD or the BFF stealing C's things... all of these types of actions would indicate that some adult-intervention was warranted.

agnes!

In the quote from the OP, the principal said that 'people' saw the OP's DD hit C, so physical abuse has been alleged, and should be investigated. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the OPs' DD is definitely a bully and the instigator in all this. She may very well be the more innocent party. However, I just don't think the situation is as black-and-white as the picture we're being painted.

 

[agnes!]

...Now here where my question comes up, lately girl C will tell her teacher that my DD and the BFF are picking on her, when they do not want to play with her, or they are playing with other girls. Monday(way home from school) on the bus girl C gets on crying before my DD or BFF, and once they are on the bus carries on to the point of people telling the bus driver that she is crying. He gets the teacher that is on duty to talk to her and she tells the teacher that DD is picking on her, so then teacher tells my DD that if this keeps up she will be kicked off the bus. My DH asked bus driver about this, and he says that he has never had an issue with DD or BFF to this girl. Monday morning on the way to school DD sits with neighbor across the street, girl C sits alone, when they get to BFF stop she sits with DD and the neighbor from across the street. The mom of BFF said that right away she knew there was going to be trouble as Girl C slumps over and buries her face in the hands like she is crying) (The mom saw this as girl C was on her side of the bus by the window) DD and BFF talk about the weekend. As soon as they get to school girl C gives them the third degree about what they were talking about. They told her the weekend, she tells them they are lying and goes tells her teacher that they are picking on her. I have also found out that DD and BFF were in the principals office last week due to them picking on girl C, thing is there is no adult that can prove this has happened. After Monday's bus incident DD was taken to the guidence counsler to talk about it. Again no proof for an adult of what happened. I did call Girl C's mom to ask her daughter to stay away from my DD, she just tells me that she cannot control what happens at school.

Principal calls today to say that there is a meeting set up with parents, school liason officer, and pyschologist on Wed and it would happen if we are there or not. BFF's dad goes to talk to principal today, and she tells him that it is because of kids like my daugher and her BFF that kids either bring guns to school or commit suicide. When DH called principal back about the meeting she tells her that people have seen DD hit girl C on the bus, so he again asked bus driver tonight about it, and bus driver says no that has not happened, if anything DD and BFF got on bus first today after school and sat together , then girl C gets in the seat behind them and proceeds to sit far enough forward to listen into DD and BFF.

A couple of other points, our house is for sale, and first thing friends across the street say to us, "great, now we have to deal with girl C".
Also I am so upset with the way the principal is handling all this that I have quit the PTO, I was the treasurer. When the current prez picked the files up from me she tells me that she asked her twins (who are in class with DD) about the girls and her daughers told her that if DD or BFF do not sit on the bus with girl C, or play with her at recess she cries, and/or tells on them. She then proceeded to tell me that she is glad that she does not live in the subdivision anymore so that she does not have to deal with girl C.
Girl C will come up to BFF in class and tell BFF that her and DD are getting in trouble for bullying her.

I am sorry, but I have a hard time having my DD blamed for being a bully when this other girl cannot stop harrassing my DD. The school has yet to show proof that my DD or BFF have done anything. Everything that they say, we have been able to disprove (bus driver) and it is so obvious to other kids that girl C cannot handle DD and BFF not wanting to play with her.

I have given my DD strict instructions not to talk to girl C. If she bothers her at school at recess she is to tell the recess monitor to please ask girl C to leave her alone, that she is not allowed to talk to her. If girl C askes her what she was talking about with BFF I told her then she can tell her it is none of your business.

I think that at third grade if my daugher does not want to play with someone she should not have to put up with that person and her made up lies to get her in trouble. I see that as Girl C being the bully.

As a mother of 7 I've seen a lot and I have to say I agree with RobinB. I think the OP is only getting the side of the story that her dd and her "BFF" want her to hear. Third and Fourth grade girls can be brutal - and it doesn't have to be in your face mean.

No, my dd's weren't bullied but I've seen enough to know that there really are three sides to every story. IMHO OP is way too involved in all the drama.

Ok, maybe she is too involved, maybe she isn't, but the situation as it stands now is not entirely of the OP's choosing. It seems to me that other adults around the periphery of the situation have made the choice to involve the OP by saying things like it's because of kids like the DD & her BFF that kids bring guns to school and that if DD & the BFF don't behave they will be thrown off the bus. I still think it looks like the situation has been mishandled by the principal and by other school personnel...let the kids negotiate a truce, if the adults had stayed out of it the relationship between all the girls wouldn't be such a huge mess - it's entangling everyone who touches it.

About the only thing I can think of at this point if for the DD & BFF to perhaps include "C" in *everything*? and see if C can still find something to complain about.

agnes!
PS - I just noticed something...WHY does the 'school liaison officer' have to be at this meeting? Isn't that like the school police officer? Have any laws or rules of the student code of conduct been broken?

 

[agnes!]

...Now here where my question comes up, lately girl C will tell her teacher that my DD and the BFF are picking on her, when they do not want to play with her, or they are playing with other girls. Monday(way home from school) on the bus girl C gets on crying before my DD or BFF, and once they are on the bus carries on to the point of people telling the bus driver that she is crying. He gets the teacher that is on duty to talk to her and she tells the teacher that DD is picking on her, so then teacher tells my DD that if this keeps up she will be kicked off the bus. ... As soon as they get to school girl C gives them the third degree about what they were talking about. They told her the weekend, she tells them they are lying and goes tells her teacher that they are picking on her. I have also found out that DD and BFF were in the principals office last week due to them picking on girl C, thing is there is no adult that can prove this has happened. After Monday's bus incident DD was taken to the guidence counsler to talk about it. Again no proof for an adult of what happened. I did call Girl C's mom to ask her daughter to stay away from my DD, she just tells me that she cannot control what happens at school.

Principal calls today to say that there is a meeting set up with parents, school liason officer, and pyschologist on Wed and it would happen if we are there or not. BFF's dad goes to talk to principal today, and she tells him that it is because of kids like my daugher and her BFF that kids either bring guns to school or commit suicide. When DH called principal back about the meeting she tells her that people have seen DD hit girl C on the bus, so he again asked bus driver tonight about it, and bus driver says no that has not happened, if anything DD and BFF got on bus first today after school and sat together , then girl C gets in the seat behind them and proceeds to sit far enough forward to listen into DD and BFF.

... When the current prez picked the files up from me she tells me that she asked her twins (who are in class with DD) about the girls and her daughers told her that if DD or BFF do not sit on the bus with girl C, or play with her at recess she cries, and/or tells on them. ...

...I have given my DD strict instructions not to talk to girl C. If she bothers her at school at recess she is to tell the recess monitor to please ask girl C to leave her alone, that she is not allowed to talk to her. If girl C askes her what she was talking about with BFF I told her then she can tell her it is none of your business.

I think that at third grade if my daugher does not want to play with someone she should not have to put up with that person and her made up lies to get her in trouble. I see that as Girl C being the bully.

Principal calls today to say that there is a meeting set up with parents, school liason officer, and pyschologist on Wed and it would happen if we are there or not. BFF's dad goes to talk to principal today, and she tells him that it is because of kids like my daugher and her BFF that kids either bring guns to school or commit suicide. When DH called principal back about the meeting she tells her that people have seen DD hit girl C on the bus, so he again asked bus driver tonight about it, and bus driver says no that has not happened, if anything DD and BFF got on bus first today after school and sat together , then girl C gets in the seat behind them and proceeds to sit far enough forward to listen into DD and BFF.

In the quote from the OP, the principal said that 'people' saw the OP's DD hit C, so physical abuse has been alleged, and should be investigated. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the OPs' DD is definitely a bully and the instigator in all this. She may very well be the more innocent party. However, I just don't think the situation is as black-and-white as the picture we're being painted.

Abuse? I would like to point out that the alleged physical contact, the supposed hitting of C by the DD? by the BFF? by them both? on the bus, was not mentioned until mom2kazkid's DH called the principal about the meeting on Friday. I would bet that the school has not been following its own policies when physical contact between students is alleged. I know in our local school system that if physical contact has supposedly occurred that the parents are to be notified immediately. I need a little more information - just when did this hitting occur? What days? Who else was around? Was it a one-time occurrence or has it happened more than once? Is there any proof of physical contact - bruises, torn clothing or any statements by *any* other kids (other than C) that either the DD or the BFF hit C?

This is my take - the adults should have stayed out of it, but *now* that C has alleged that DD and/or the BFF have hit her, she has invoked the full force of the school system *and* even the police to bear on the situation.

My DD wanted to cotribute:
If C was being bullied by these 2 other girls, then she would not continue to try to hangout with them. She would be afraid to open her mouth and say a word to them for fear she might be made fun of. If they had actually hit her, then she would definitely not be anywhere near them. Not on the bus. Not at school. She would be afraid of them physically and emotionally. She would not want to be around them at all. But according to the bus driver, C is continuing to try to hang out with them. C is acting like the 2 other girls are her only friends, and like she cannot handle being by herself for a few minutes. I feel like I can say this because I did NOT fit in at my elementary school. Also, it doesn't make sense for them to hit her, much less on the bus. First of all, these are girls, not boys. Boys hit each other. Girls fight with words and emotions and the cold shoulder and telling each other, "I'm not talking to you anymore." Second of all, who would be stupid enough to hit someone on the bus? Every bus has an adult right there, driving it. Most of them have security cameras. Hitting would happen at recess or in the lunch line, when an adult is not right there. And one other thing, how could they have hit her if C hadn't been sitting near them on the bus? They would have had to make it really obvious they were hitting her. No one would have been able to NOT notice it. The driver most certainly would have seen that. For me, C's story doesn't seem to add up.

agnes!

 

[OceanAnnie]

<<SNIP>>
Principal calls today to say that there is a meeting set up with parents, school liason officer, and pyschologist on Wed and it would happen if we are there or not. BFF's dad goes to talk to principal today, and she tells him that it is because of kids like my daugher and her BFF that kids either bring guns to school or commit suicide. When DH called principal back about the meeting she tells her that people have seen DD hit girl C on the bus, so he again asked bus driver tonight about it, and bus driver says no that has not happened, if anything DD and BFF got on bus first today after school and sat together , then girl C gets in the seat behind them and proceeds to sit far enough forward to listen into DD and BFF.

I'd get to the bottom of that and the principal's statement about your DD's (and friend's) actions. I'd want specific substantiated events. I'm sure you will try like anything to be at that meeting, and while there I would have my documentation and I'd take notes about what is being stated as fact. It doesn't sound like everyone is on the same page. Especially with the bus driver refuting the hitting. I'd request the bus driver to be at the meeting too. A lot of the allegations stems from the bus rides and he seems to have a handle on what is going on. I'd ask him personally to attend.

<<SNIP>>
My DD wanted to cotribute:
If C was being bullied by these 2 other girls, then she would not continue to try to hangout with them. She would be afraid to open her mouth and say a word to them for fear she might be made fun of. If they had actually hit her, then she would definitely not be anywhere near them. Not on the bus. Not at school. She would be afraid of them physically and emotionally. She would not want to be around them at all. But according to the bus driver, C is continuing to try to hang out with them. C is acting like the 2 other girls are her only friends, and like she cannot handle being by herself for a few minutes. I feel like I can say this because I did NOT fit in at my elementary school. Also, it doesn't make sense for them to hit her, much less on the bus. First of all, these are girls, not boys. Boys hit each other. Girls fight with words and emotions and the cold shoulder and telling each other, "I'm not talking to you anymore." Second of all, who would be stupid enough to hit someone on the bus? Every bus has an adult right there, driving it. Most of them have security cameras. Hitting would happen at recess or in the lunch line, when an adult is not right there. And one other thing, how could they have hit her if C hadn't been sitting near them on the bus? They would have had to make it really obvious they were hitting her. No one would have been able to NOT notice it. The driver most certainly would have seen that. For me, C's story doesn't seem to add up.

agnes!

I agree! Lots of good points in your post.

 

[Rora]

As a 3rd grade teacher, then you KNOW there are three sides to the story. The DD's side to her parents (all innocence), C's side to her parents (they are picking on me) and the TRUTH. As much as we love and want to believe our kids, most 3rd graders will spin the truth to suit their own needs. We have no idea how the DD and her BFF act around this girl. The taunting and harassing doesn't need to be "in your face" to make it any less hurtful to C or to be bullying.

Obviously, my DD was in a similar situation. Once in 1st grade and again in 4th grade with the same girl who had been a former friend. The former friend hand-picked girls to be in her "posse" and shunned the rest. She even told her posse that they could not be with my DD and a few other girls. The FF and the posse did not think they were bullying. They just thought that they were telling the other girls that they did not want to play with them. I have to tell you that the FF's mom was shocked when it all came to a head in 4th grade and the FF's 4th grade posse was pulled aside. The mom never thought her DD would so such a thing but she was responsible for a lot of tears in many households. Now, unlike C, my DD let it (mostly) roll off her back.

I am NOT saying that the OP's DD is doing something so drastic, but I don't think that she is all that innocent either. The OP is demonizing C while painting her own DD as a suffering saint. I think that neither child is at the extreme and both are probably responsible for the current situation. I also want to point out that I think it is unlikely that C has her teacher, the counselor *and* the school administration completely "snowed". There has to be something to what C is saying. I recommend that the OP be open to the possibility that C is not lying.

I do agree- there are 3 sides to this story. And you're probably right, all children invovled in this situation are probably guilty of something but I think it is unfair to claim that children picking and choosing their friends is bullying. But, you're absolutely correct- the OP should be aware that there is probably more to this story than she knows.

There is such a huge focus on bullying in schools today. Now there are CERTAINLY times where bullying is a problem and I definitely believe that those situations need be addressed and rectified. However, I have seen in my own classroom, where children claim they're being "bullied" because one student doesn't want to play with them (no harassing, taunting, name calling, etc. Just simply don't want to play..). IMO- that is NOT bullying. The "bully" should not be punished and the school should not waste their time addressing that issue when a real case of bullying could be occuring else. Not saying that this is the OPs situtation-- just sharing my experience and opinion.

OP- please keep us updated.

 

[Rora]

My DD wanted to cotribute:
If C was being bullied by these 2 other girls, then she would not continue to try to hangout with them. She would be afraid to open her mouth and say a word to them for fear she might be made fun of. If they had actually hit her, then she would definitely not be anywhere near them. Not on the bus. Not at school. She would be afraid of them physically and emotionally. She would not want to be around them at all. But according to the bus driver, C is continuing to try to hang out with them. C is acting like the 2 other girls are her only friends, and like she cannot handle being by herself for a few minutes. I feel like I can say this because I did NOT fit in at my elementary school. Also, it doesn't make sense for them to hit her, much less on the bus. First of all, these are girls, not boys. Boys hit each other. Girls fight with words and emotions and the cold shoulder and telling each other, "I'm not talking to you anymore." Second of all, who would be stupid enough to hit someone on the bus? Every bus has an adult right there, driving it. Most of them have security cameras. Hitting would happen at recess or in the lunch line, when an adult is not right there. And one other thing, how could they have hit her if C hadn't been sitting near them on the bus? They would have had to make it really obvious they were hitting her. No one would have been able to NOT notice it. The driver most certainly would have seen that. For me, C's story doesn't seem to add up.

agnes!

Said perfectly.