Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[Pumbaa_]

Well, first, I'm not sure I would consider the addition of a mandatory tip/gratuity/service fee a 'penalty',

Anytime you are forced to something, it does come across as penalizing, IMO.

I tip well, but I really really hate being told how I have to. I want the option to reward my server with a great tip, or show my dissatisfaction with a smaller tip. (without the hassle of going through a manager and making a not great experience into a bigger problem)

If I have a not so pleasant experience, I don't always want to talk to a manager and express my displeasure. I want to leave and never go back or express my unhappiness in a different way (like here on the DIS )

Taking away my choice is a penalty in me book (regardless of the reason they put it in, don't really care why, you know?)

 

[WETWHISTLE]

Forgive me, I haven't read through the pages after this post yet, but it says...

This adjustment to the program has been implemented in order to align the Disney Dining Experience Program with other dining experiences where gratuities are included. Effective January 1, 2008, when utilizing your Disney Dining Experience discount 18% gratuity will be added.

But where else will the gratuities be included? The DDP isn't including the gratuity anymore in 2008, so I just don't get this?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

No worries.

The reason many resorts (not WDW ) auto-grat all customers is because, like in South Florida, many or even most guests are from foreign countries (Europe, for example) where servers are not tipped much if at all. It is a protection for servers and the only way to keep restaurants in these areas staffed.

As Disney does not currently have a problem staffing its restauants with servers, and most guests are knowledgable of tipping customs, I do not foresee DIsney adopting this type of policy in the near future.

As it pertains to DDE customers, again either complain if you have bad service, or do not participate in the DDE program - a decision sadly being faced by many DDP customers also with the new changes.

Again, most servers are not happy with all the changes - we want things the way they have been the last few years. We all will have to deal unfortunately.

the only way to keep them staffed? how about starting with better pay?

once again thats not what a tip is for, if the area is visted by people who generally dont tip then either managment can pay them better wages or the people can go work elsewhere

 

[TDC Nala]

Just out of curiosity, for those of you worried about service declining, at what point are you telling them you have a DDE card? I usually don't say anything until the end of the meal when I get ready to pay (I typically just pay what the original bill was without the discount, which gave the server 20%, and I typically pay with cash, so they just have to bring my card back). With the DDP, the server needs to know in advance to know what you are entitled to eat on the plan, but the DDE is just a discount card. So if I continue to wait until the end of the meal to present my card, I should get the same quality of service (good or bad) during the meal that I would have gotten if I were just a cash customer.

I am wondering if, in order to add the automatic gratuity to the bill, members might now be required to present their DDE card prior to ordering.

I doubt it because they could figure the gratuity at the same time they figure the discount. But it'll depend on the way they set up the computers in the restaurants.

I think I prefer to give the servers the benefit of a doubt rather than assume that they will see that card and think "Okay, I can slack off on this table because they have to tip me anyway."

 

[sjdisneywedding]

As has been mentioned many times in this forum, that is not the case. "'Tip' is an old word, and it has nothing to do with either acronyms or the act of attempting to influence quality of service." http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp

On the contrary: The entire cost of service is the responsibility of the patron. The only question is what percentage of the cost of service is covered via a portion of the menu price versus covered by the gratuity. Generally, in this country, the standard is that the gratuity is supposed to cover about 80% of the cost of service.

sorry but your take is completely twisted. yes patrons make up what the server unltimately recieves but reality is servers have a set wage(which should be set atandard to their job functions), then that wage gets added to based on their levelof service.

you cant just say ok heres the wage and we need to get them all to __ wages so we add 18% auto

its dumb, it defeats the purpose of a tip, and its flat out just not right

 

[TDC Nala]

If you mean December '07 you're probably right, there are virtually no ADR's to be had for lunch / dinner. You will need to eat somewhere else.

Steve

Thanks for reminding me, I just called up and got an ADR (multiple times available) for Artist Point in December.

 

[dejr_8]

A sent an email to complain about the tip being added to buffet and lounge bills.

I don't see how being a server at a Buffer warrants 18%. I think that is excessive.

I also don't agree with adding the 18% to a lounge bill - actually more specifically if I purchase an adult beverage at a bar without a waitress. I do believe in tipping bar tenders (don't get me wrong).

 

[TDC Nala]

Forgive me, I haven't read through the pages after this post yet, but it says...



But where else will the gratuities be included? The DDP isn't including the gratuity anymore in 2008, so I just don't get this?

Remember this is an email intended for DDE members.

DDE members are usually locals and AP holders who spend comparatively a lot of time at WDW and have participated in such things as food and wine special events and special DDE meal events. I've been to a few of these. The pricing generally includes a set gratuity. The pricing of dinner shows also includes a set gratuity.

This is what I think they mean by "other dining experiences," not the DDP. They may assume that DDE members won't use the DDP, although I know many (including myself) who have used it in the past.

 

[Inkmahm]

Speaking for myself the automatic gratuity won't bother me, I usually leave around 20% so this will make it easier for me. If I really feel the service doesn't warrant 18% then I'll speak to a manager about it. Otherwise I'll just go with the flow. Saves me 2% and I don't have to bother with even the simplest math.

I only read the first page of this 44 page thread but I agree with this. I used the 20% discount before as my tip calculation. Now I won't even need to do that. The bill will be done when I get it and I'll save 2%. No math needed.

 

[WETWHISTLE]

Remember this is an email intended for DDE members.

DDE members are usually locals and AP holders who spend comparatively a lot of time at WDW and have participated in such things as food and wine special events and special DDE meal events. I've been to a few of these. The pricing generally includes a set gratuity. The pricing of dinner shows also includes a set gratuity.

This is what I think they mean by "other dining experiences," not the DDP. They may assume that DDE members won't use the DDP, although I know many (including myself) who have used it in the past.

Thanks for the clarification. Other than DDE, I couldn't figure out what other dining experiences there were besides the DDP, much less ones that included gratuity.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It doesn't go into effect until 1/1/2008.

Right. I was responding to your statement

We will see this next trip. I am going to keep track.

So, if your December 2007 trip extends into 2008, then, yes, you will be able to see and track the new policy. If this trip is entirely in 2007, you won't. That's ALL I was saying.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In the connotation that I used it... in reference to what that person posted that it was somehow connected to guests from foreign countries not tipping enough or not at all, hence we have this forced gratuity, I do think it is somewhat a "penalty

I understand that. But it's extremely likely that the post - and so the statement - to which you were originally responding is wrong. The change in policy had nothing to do with how certain nationalities tip, or don't, and everything to do with Disney refusing to compromise on the DDP tip issue. Sure, the union/contract/negotiations have nothing to do with you, or any of us - but THAT'S the reason for the change, NOT one poster's claim about foreign tipping customs.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I only read the first page of this 44 page thread but I agree with this. I used the 20% discount before as my tip calculation. Now I won't even need to do that. The bill will be done when I get it and I'll save 2%. No math needed.

maybe they should slip an itinerary under our door every morning too telling us exactly how our day is planned out; what park to go to, how to get their, what rides to go on, where to eat...everything

that way we we wont have to add or think

 

[kaytieeldr]

the only way to keep them staffed? how about starting with better pay?

Maybe all the posters who are (politely and concisely - that being the best way to get results) expressing their displeasure to Disney should include THIS recommendation?

sorry but your take is completely twisted. yes patrons make up what the server unltimately recieves

No, I think what bicker's saying is that the diner is in COMPLETE control of the entire cost of service.
The diner chooses not to dine = no purchase, therefore no income for server via either pay (no diners = no business = no need for servers) or gratuity
The diner chooses to dine = income for server via both pay and gratuity - and determines the amount of said incombe based on a combination of the price of items ordered and the rate the diner chooses.
With this change, while the diner does not get to decide the rate of the gratuity, he determines the amount of it by what he chooses to order.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

"The reason many resorts (not WDW ) auto-grat all customers is because, like in South Florida, many or even most guests are from foreign countries (Europe, for example) where servers are not tipped much if at all. It is a protection for servers and the only way to keep restaurants in these areas staffed."

This sends me over the edge, I am laughing though as I know it is futile to even get upset over this... I get to be penalized because guests from foreign countries do not tip much if at all, that makes me crazy...

I've read comments like this a few times on this thread. I think we may be putting too much blame on foreign guests. I'm sure there are many who don't tip appropriately. Unfortunately, if posts on the DIS, over the last few months are any indication, there's quite a few Americans who also don't tip appropriately. At least those from other countries may not know better.

I am probably in the minority but after receiving my e-mail I thought it was a great idea to automatically add the 18% gratuity.

The more I read these threads, the more I agree with you. It boggles the mind that people anticipate so many reasons to not tip properly. Obviously, my family has been extremely lucky dining out at all locations, not just WDW. Sure we've had a few bad servers, but not even close to 1 out of 10. It's more like 1 out of 100. It never occurs to me that I am likely to receive bad service, therefore needing to lower my tip, before even entering a restaurant. If I thought there was a good likelihood of that, I'd eat elsewhere.

I don't think of it as "Disney paying their tip", but "all-inclusive". I think that whatever the price, it should be all-inclusive. Then there are no big suprises as far as bills and such, and the servers get their tips as well. I do think that the servers won't do well with guests being left on their own with the DDP.

By the looks of things, I agree.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't see how being a server at a Buffer warrants 18%. I think that is excessive.

I also don't agree with adding the 18% to a lounge bill - actually more specifically if I purchase an adult beverage at a bar without a waitress. I do believe in tipping bar tenders (don't get me wrong).

I'm sure buffet servers would disagree with you - maybe Dizserver knows one who will post here with her/his experiences?
As for lounge service - how much DO you tip the bartender who made your drink? Eighteen percent of a $5 drink is ninety cents; 18% of an $8 drink is $1.44. An $11 drink would approach incurring a $2 tip.

 

[kaytieeldr]

By the looks of things, I agree.

I would tend to disagree, but only because I'm sure Disney will reintroduce the 'tip explanation' cards in the check folders. I encountered these in 2005, despite being on the (then tip-inclusive) Dining Plan, but not in the last two years.

 

[rt2dz]

Diners who feel tipping a single % across the board results in 'overtipping' at buffets would likely best be served by choosing only full-service dining options - or not using the DDE discount and thus being in full control of the tip.

The problem with that is, have you noticed how very few restaurants are not buffet at WDW anymore? Especially with character meals. The reason being, buffets move people faster.

Now no one can force you to pay a grautity even if it is included, even if it isn't a service issue. Any customer can simply say, I don't agree with that assesment--and I'm sure that would be Disney's issue. But how many people are going to wait for their server to come over to collect the check, ask for the manager, wait for the server to find the manager, wait for the manager to come by, then complain to/negotiate with the manager, wait for the check to be adjusted, then wait for payment to be collected and processed? Most people are just going to pay it to get on with their vacation. Especially if the service has been so notrious that it has already put a dent in their day. Let me tell you, the worst service I have ever received in my entire life was at Crystal Palace. The last thing I wanted to do was talk to a manager--DH did. But I figured at that time, we weren't going to be too nice. To put it nicely. I wanted out and I wanted to get on with my day. The crappy tip said it all; as I couldn't bring myself to stiff him altogether--DH would have and he waited tables, bartended, managed and worked for Sysco!

And just out of curiousity, how many international travelers buy DDE?

Like most people, it isn't the amount they are saying to tip. That would be the tip for good service anyhow. It's being told what to do. Sorry, but the line in our family is "When you're an adult you get to make those decisions". This isn't a law for good of society or for anyone's safety. This is let's fatten our pocketbook (which I'm not against), by passing the cost to our best customers (which I am against). If that many in the union were against it, I'd be complaining to your union officials--voting them out of office and insisting on renegotiations. But, hey, I live in a right-to-work state.

 

[dejr_8]

I'm sure buffet servers would disagree with you - maybe Dizserver knows one who will post here with her/his experiences?
As for lounge service - how much DO you tip the bartender who made your drink? Eighteen percent of a $5 drink is ninety cents; 18% of an $8 drink is $1.44. An $11 drink would approach incurring a $2 tip.

On single drinks I would probably tip the following (using you examples)

I would leave a buck on the $5 beer, $2 bucks on the $8 drink and probably $2 on the $11 drink as well. So in those cases I exceeded the 18% tip level.

Where I have the issue with a flat 18% is if my wife and I have several drinks in the bar (and have to go up to the bar each time to get the drinks and return empties) and drop $40 bucks (easy to do at Disney with expensive drinks). I would probably give a $6 tip for that - a straight 15%.

re: Buffet servers - the enjoyment of my meal at a buffet location is not as dependent on the ability/attentiveness of the server as much as it is at a table service location.

 

[rt2dz]

Not in my experience - I waited tables and tended bar for over 14 years - on the average, servers make quite a decent living, especially in light of minimal qualification requirements. I averaged $20 an hour of more (and at least double that tending bar), and that was 25-30 years ago! Yes, it can be hard work, but it is often quite satisfying, both financially and otherwise.

I don't know where you worked, but I sure would love to know! Not that I work in the industry anymore. I wouldn't. It's about being overworked and underpaid. A server makes $2.13 an hour, except in 7 states. They are expected in most places to do opening work, closing sidework and running work. They are expected to keep things in the restaurant clean. And how much you make depends on where you work. I know people who did much better at IHOP than at some fine dining establishments. It's about turn and burn and station size. Then there is the abuse you take from customers. The server = servant thing. The comments that are borderline sexual harrassment. It's just all part of the job. And I worked at very reputable places.