Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[Colleen27]

Hey Denise! We agree! I don't see the point of the 6 or more language either. AND If its everybody, why announce it in a DDE email? Worst place in the world to announce a universal change for all guests. Altho, I'm sure there are examples in the past that were handled just as poorly..

The I can think of one potential explanation, obviously pure speculation but based on we know about Disney and technology it seems possible: somewhere along the line in the development/implementation of the facts as we've known them for months (DDE = auto 18%, party of 6+ = automatic 18%, cash items ordered on DDP checks = auto 18%), someone just threw up their hands and decided to go with 18% across the board rather than develop software that can handle all the sub-groups and distinctions.

 

[bicker]

I think people on all sides of this are taking it way too personally.

Is that surprising though? One of the biggest sources of bewilderment for me is how personally people-in-general take mundane business decisions -- as if every big company is continually plotting to persecute them. Typically, the simplest explanation is the best, and in this scenario the simple explanation here starts with the facts that (1) service workers have to be paid a living wage or they won't work, and (2) suppliers will charge at least as much as providing what they're providing costs, and generally will charge as much as customers are willing to pay. So the money to pay the service workers will come from the customer, no matter what. If the customer refuses to pay it as a voluntary gratuity, the the gratuity will be automatic; if it doesn't work as a gratuity, then you'll see it reflected by reduced quality of service.

 

[Tiger926]

As I stated several pages ago, since the email states, "...across property policy change," it means all locations regardless of how one pays for their meal. Perhaps the final word will be otherwise (I highly doubt it though), or the DDE office jumped the gun, but based on the words in the email, it seems pretty straightforward to me.

And I am a lawyer.

This is assuming that your interpretation of the meaning of the words "across property" is the one intended by the sender of the email.

The use of "across property" in an email sent to Disney Dining Experience members could also be reasonably interpreted as all locations on property that accept DDE.

That's why this paragraph is so badly worded.

 

[Sammie]

All of this was decided during contract negotiations. A friend who works Food and Beverage and is shaking his head at all the confusion offered his analogy.

It is a lighter spend on the discussion.

Once apon a time there was a girl named Alice, and Alice owned a restaurant.

She had lots of cards working for her, the Ace of hearts, the Two of diamonds, etc.

Alice offered a package plan to her customers where they could pay a certain price and eat for free in her restaurant, and the gratuity was included. Well one day Alice's accountant told Alice that she could save a ton of cash if she stopped paying the cards the gratuity, and make the customers tip the cards based on what they ate.

Well the cards all got very angry and told Alice that they felt this wasn't fair, so Alice went back to her accountant and asked what should she do?

The accountant thought about it and said "Hey Alice, don't you have another program where you give people 20% off of their meal?"

Alice replied "Yes, I call it the ADE, Alice's Dining Experience!"

At which point the accountant told Alice to tell the cards that because they were loosing the gratuity on the free dining plan, she would make it up by demanding the ADE customers pay a gratuity.

The cards accepted this agreement, and now Alice doesn't have to pay out any gratuity at all, saving herself a ton of cash!

The only problem is, Alice forgot to tell the girl who answers the phone about the change!

 

[Eeyore2003]

All of this was decided during contract negotiations. A friend who works Food and Beverage and is shaking his head at all the confusion offered his analogy.

It is a lighter spend on the discussion.

Once apon a time there was a girl named Alice, and Alice owned a restaurant.

She had lots of cards working for her, the Ace of hearts, the Two of diamonds, etc.

Alice offered a package plan to her customers where they could pay a certain price and eat for free in her restaurant, and the gratuity was included. Well one day Alice's accountant told Alice that she could save a ton of cash if she stopped paying the cards the gratuity, and make the customers tip the cards based on what they ate.

Well the cards all got very angry and told Alice that they felt this wasn't fair, so Alice went back to her accountant and asked what should she do?

The accountant thought about it and said "Hey Alice, don't you have another program where you give people 20% off of their meal?"

Alice replied "Yes, I call it the ADE, Alice's Dining Experience!"

At which point the accountant told Alice to tell the cards that because they were loosing the gratuity on the free dining plan, she would make it up by demanding the ADE customers pay a gratuity.

The cards accepted this agreement, and now Alice doesn't have to pay out any gratuity at all, saving herself a ton of cash!

The only problem is, Alice forgot to tell the girl who answers the phone about the change!

Exactly like I said before, I think DDE is taking the brunt for poor tippers from both DDE and DDP and if they're going to implement this, it should apply to all discount plans including DDP.

 

[Tiger926]

If this exact debate had happened in my class, I would definitely be pointing to the "across property policy change" wording as being the answer to end all confusion as to whether this applies to all guests or not. The DDE card is not accepted across property, so there would be no reason to word it as such if it only applied to DDE customers only. Those words, in and of themselves are very specific as to whom this information applies to - the DDE office, in my opinion, was kind enough to give their customers fair warning about this new policy, because I'm pretty certain that the general Disney offices would be doing no such thing and guests would have found out about this while paying for their meals.

A little foresight goes a long way (although in this case, it just riled up people once again!), so I think it's great that the DDE office passed this info along to their customers in a timely manner.

 

[mpls_mm]

I haven't been a server for years, but serving at Disney is the same as serving at any place on I-drive or any other tourist trap in orlando. Many people don't tip at all, due to cultural differences and general cheapness. I can't count the times I have overheard people say thay they already paid x amount for this or that and are not paying anymore. They pick apart the service and food after the bill has arrived. I can't tell you how many people send back drinks after thay have drunk more than half because "there is no alcohol." I have been told people would prefer to wait for a prettier server, or a server of their own race or a different gender. I have had people steal tabs off of other tables, some places even make servers pay for that out of their own pocket. Should I pay for your buffet too? My personal favorite, after waiting on a table that stayed for ages, on their slip they wrote...here is your tip...don't eat beans next to an open flame. I have had people swear at me, throw things etc. The change thing was very common when i worked there, con artists would try to get too much change and steal from you. I have had people take the partially eaten food and drinks after other people have left and bring them to their table, do you think they left a big tip? The list goes on and on. If you don't think there is bad behavior, thieves and cheap people at Disney, read the other boards. If you observe a complete jerk somewhere, know that he is eating three meals a day somewhere. I also do think about the server, I know plenty of servers who have emergencies and things happen to them. They don't want to lose their job so they work, sometimes I do get bad service. I get it rectified immediately, I speak up or ask for a new server that is not too busy.

 

[Colleen27]

This thread is still cracking me up, especially as an English teacher - it's funny how so many people are sure that this is only for DDE? Why? Because it was sent by the DDE office? That doesn't mean anything, as they were just informing their customers that they will now be subject to this change. I'm pretty confident that this is why the info was given at the end of the letter as it is not specific to just DDE customers at all. I also disagree that this email was poorly worded, as I think it's very easy to understand. I think a lot of people on here are saying that because they don't want to be told that they have to pay Disney an automatic charge of 18%, so, by convincing themselves that the email is poorly worded, they are somehow keeping up hope that this change won't apply to them.

As I stated several pages ago, since the email states, "...across property policy change," it means all locations regardless of how one pays for their meal. Perhaps the final word will be otherwise (I highly doubt it though), or the DDE office jumped the gun, but based on the words in the email, it seems pretty straightforward to me.

It is the context of the statement that leaves the full meaning unclear - it says "across property policy change", but it says that in an e-mail specifically addressing the DDE plan and terms. So while the sentence taken alone would appear to mean everywhere, for everyone, the message wasn't addressing the general public.

 

[Tiger926]

It is the context of the statement that leaves the full meaning unclear - it says "across property policy change", but it says that in an e-mail specifically addressing the DDE plan and terms. So while the sentence taken alone would appear to mean everywhere, for everyone, the message wasn't addressing the general public.

Let me better explain - the message said we would also like to inform you, meaning, in addition to the new info about getting cards on property, which is specific to DDE members only, that a brand new gratuity policy will be in effect for all WDW guests. The message doesn't need to be addressing the general public, as the DDE office takes care of its own customers only, as evidenced by this email.

I'm pretty confident that it means all guests, Tiger

 

[Sammie]

Several websites have received clarification from Disney, I am sure that will be the case here too.

http://www.laughingplace.com/Latest.asp

See the update under: Automatic dining gratuity starting January 1

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

When I go to WDW I tip well over 20%. If I have horrible service I'll usually tip between 15-20% because I'm on vacation and you'd almost have to punch me in the face to ruin my day.

To me this tip issue is secondary to a much bigger issue that this situation brings to light.

When a day after this thing explodes people are still getting conflicting messages on what plans are included based on which CM they call or which office they call, it's an indication that training is out the window and one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.

This is not the fault of the hourly CMs. There is a real breakdown on a management level.

How many times do people post on these boards that if your CM doesn't know what you're/they're talking about, call back and try another one? Or someone will state that some people here seem to know more about what's going on before the people answering the phones?

I have never had a problem calling any company and talking to someone who didn't know an answer to a question I had. Take down my name and number, or find someone there who does. Don't feed me misinformation.

 

[Tiger926]

Several websites have received clarification from Disney, I am sure that will be the case here too.

http://www.laughingplace.com/Latest.asp

See the update under: Automatic dining gratuity starting January 1

If this is the case, then the DDE office is in need of some basic grammar & vocabulary lessons, Tiger

 

[Sammie]

If this is the case, then the DDE office is in need of some basic grammar & vocabulary lessons, Tiger

That I will agree with and be assurred they are aware of that also. However as I said from the beginning when you take an email targeted to a special group and you let others have access to reading it, not in that group, then the problems begin.

 

[thunderbird1]

lol, I can't believe this thread has gotten this big. It's just a tip people, it's not a big deal. You would have left it anyways, it's not like they are forcing you to give up your first born.

I could understand if they were putting in a 25% mandatory tip, THEN it would be ok for everyone to be in such a fuss. But jeesh, they're not even making it 20%, and people are acting like Disney is robbing them.

Judging from a bunch of posts in this thread, I'm glad Disney made this change, cause it's obvious quite a few people don't tip their servers

That was my thought exactly. Because we can't possibly be this upset about the difference between 15% and 18%, now can we?

And I agree with the others, this won't hurt Disney a bit, and if anything, a couple of empty spots from people eating offsite just means easier reservations for me. Lots of vacation places already do mandatory tips, this is nothing new.

You're right--room service in hotels, cruise lines, etc. all have automatically calculated tips/gratuities/service charges/whatever you want to call them. WDW restaurants are arguably too busy right now, and if all those 10% tippers' empty seats are filled by 18% (or more) tippers, it's a win-win for Disney and the servers. Not to mention those of us who will now have an easier time getting into the popular restaurants--woo-hoo!

Although I think I'm going to find it hilarious when it turns out that this is for DDE members only...lol

Ultimately, this is what I believe, too, but either way I don't care, and it's not going to change the way I dine, whether it's full price, DDE discount or DDP (we did all 3 last trip). Like someone said earlier--it would actually be easier on me if they did institute it across the board, because then I wouldn't have to do any math on vacation.

My dh came up with a different way to look at the tipping situation. He said not to think of the automatic 18% as a tip, but rather figure it into the cost of the food, much the way we do with the 6.5% tax right now. Then, if you get really exceptional service, feel free to leave an addition 2%-5% gratuity on top of that. Now it doesn't sound so bad, does it?

I haven't been a server for years, but serving at Disney is the same as serving at any place on I-drive or any other tourist trap in orlando. Many people don't tip at all, due to cultural differences and general cheapness. I can't count the times I have overheard people say thay they already paid x amount for this or that and are not paying anymore. They pick apart the service and food after the bill has arrived. I can't tell you how many people send back drinks after thay have drunk more than half because "there is no alcohol." I have been told people would prefer to wait for a prettier server, or a server of their own race or a different gender. I have had people steal tabs off of other tables, some places even make servers pay for that out of their own pocket. Should I pay for your buffet too? My personal favorite, after waiting on a table that stayed for ages, on their slip they wrote...here is your tip...don't eat beans next to an open flame. I have had people swear at me, throw things etc. The change thing was very common when i worked there, con artists would try to get too much change and steal from you. I have had people take the partially eaten food and drinks after other people have left and bring them to their table, do you think they left a big tip? The list goes on and on. If you don't think there is bad behavior, thieves and cheap people at Disney, read the other boards. If you observe a complete jerk somewhere, know that he is eating three meals a day somewhere. I also do think about the server, I know plenty of servers who have emergencies and things happen to them. They don't want to lose their job so they work, sometimes I do get bad service. I get it rectified immediately, I speak up or ask for a new server that is not too busy.

I'm sorry, but some of those examples were just shameful. What's wrong with people? I just don't buy the argument that you're going to get bad service if the tip is automatic. If I were a server, I'd be much more likely to be friendly and attentive knowing that I'm guaranteed a living wage via automatic gratuity than I would wondering which one of my tables is housing one of those bozos.

 

[Tiger926]

That I will agree with and be assurred they are aware of that also. However as I said from the beginning when you take an email targeted to a special group and you let others have access to reading it, not in that group, then the problems begin.

I agree, but I also think it has to do with basic reading comprehension skills. I read the email, and based on the way it's worded, it's not difficult to understand at all. If there has been an error, the biggest issue is in their wording, "... across property policy change." The fact that people on here are confused because it came from the DDE office shouldn't be an issue - based on their words in the email, they are informing DDE members, who eat at various disney restaurants, across the entire WDW resort, that this new policy change is coming. They did this because as DDE members, we are bound by WDW policies, of which this new gratuity is one.

Again, it may just be basic grammar & vocab that are being confused (if indeed there has been an error) by the DDE office, as well as many readers here, or, the email is correct by informing us of this new policy change for all WDW diners. I'm going with the latter!

Tiger

 

[keys2kingdom]

"Yes, I call it the ADE, Alice's Dining Experience!"
[/I]

So Sammie, is this going to be DDE's new name?

You mentioned a name change a few pages back and I'm guessing "Disney Dining Plan" won't be changing. Any guesses as to DDE's new moniker?

 

[itchin2go]

I keep reading (from multiple sources) that the confusion is now cleared up and that this change applies to DDE only. And then I read posts from people saying that they don't believe this is true. The mystery is solved, right? The new gratuity policy applies on to DDE folks, correct?

 

[Sammie]

So Sammie, is this going to be DDE's new name?

You mentioned a name change a few pages back and I'm guessing "Disney Dining Plan" won't be changing. Any guesses as to DDE's new moniker?

not sure but it would be easier to keep things straight that way. DDE and DDP are just too much alike in sound. Half the time the call center CMs are not even sure which is being asked about.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think people on all sides of this are taking it way too personally.

Hey! When I'm right and people disagree with me, of COURSE I take it personally!

What was in the DDE email:

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

What's continuing to be ignored is that this information was provided to DDE members in a DDE e-mail - which indicates it applies to Guests who use the DDE card across property at all food and beverage locations. The "regardless or party size" is due to the PRIOR practice of automatically adding an 18% gratuity to the checks of DDE-using parties of 8 or more.

facts as we've known them for months (DDE = auto 18%, party of 6+ = automatic 18%, cash items ordered on DDP checks = auto 18%), someone just threw up their hands and decided to go with 18% across the board rather than develop software that can handle all the sub-groups and distinctions.

As you point out - the above gratuity changes have been publicly known for several months; it's not reasonable that a SUDDEN throwing up of the hands resulted in a required tip across the board. That's not what the e-mail - sent to DDE members only - states. It says, "across property", not "across board".
Plus, all what sub-groups and distinctions?
- DDE members: All checks will include an automatic 18% gratuity
- Parties of six or more: All checks will include an automatic 18% gratuity (merely changed from 8, little programming involved)
- Non-covered purchase by DDP users: All such checks ALREADY include 18% gratuity, NO programming involved.
- Everybody else.
Besides, it's likely not programming at all, but simply hitting existing keys on existing registers in a different order - and even THAT applies only to DDE users.

"...across property policy change," it means all locations regardless of how one pays

No, again, across property does not equal across the board.

Let me better explain - the message said we would also like to inform you, meaning, in addition to the new info about getting cards on property, which is specific to DDE members only

No. It means in addition to new info about getting new cards on property, DDE users will now be charged an automatic 18% gratuity - whether there is one person dining, or 25.

 

[Sammie]

I keep reading (from multiple sources) that the confusion is now cleared up and that this change applies to DDE only. And then I read posts from people saying that they don't believe this is true. The mystery is solved, right? The new gratuity policy applies on to DDE folks, correct?

yes mystery solved, DDE only and parties of 6, gee I sound like a broken record, but this is the facts.

But didn't I say this yesterday.