Bean Counters and shortsightedness

[Aluminum Falcon]

Hmmmm, as you can tell I am no financial wizard, and I am reading with appreciation everyone’s input.

I guess I am just standing outside the circle and thinking to myself- if Disney losing (a lot) of money pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the theme parks, and they are increasing (exponentially) the cost of visiting said parks, making it more difficult to visit the parks, making the parks less ‘magical’ and forcing the burden of cost on fewer people who can afford to go to said parks

Isn’t that a death spiral inwards?

Who cares if there is a new generation out there loving new Disney movies and shows, if in the end money runs out to make new movies and shows? And I think it’s apparent with all these new movie/show platforms losing money, it can be a hungry and endless abyss….

Sometimes the big picture gets lost in the weeds. Sometimes it just takes stepping out the box and looking at the whole picture puts things in a different light. I think there are obvious signs that the strategy being employed by Disney (make more money off fewer people in the theme parks) is a dangerous long term plan. If indeed Disney needs to keep the parks as their golden goose to fund the whole shebang, this is not a good plan, imho.

That’s all I was trying to say.

I think that they are still in recovery mode from the pandemic, although less so then a year ago. People were literally banging down the doors last year at those "pricing out" numbers you mention. The first downturn (that has affected more than just Disney) shouldn't be turned on them to make your point. It again is just convenient.

taking a step back is not a bad idea, but when you can't find any actual data to back up your argument you shouldn't just make things up to suit your argument.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The mainstream media seems to be turning on Disney / Iger a bit right now. I have seen more articles in the last 10 days that paint Disney / Iger in a negative light than I did in the previous 5 years.

Suddenly the same exact publications that were lambasting youtubers for negative movie / TV series reviews are saying the same exact type of things now.

 

[Smugpugmug]

With the lower attendance at Disney vs last year, it's also important to note that Universal and Seaworld have both stated in their quarterly reports that their attendance is down as well. Seaworld saw a pretty substantial drop.

Not saying that Disney is in a perfect spot. I think their recent (within the last 5 years) policies are turning people away and making people consider other vacations. People this year are discovering that you can go to the real countries in the World Showcase for the same price or less than a trip to WDW.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

With the lower attendance at Disney vs last year, it's also important to note that Universal and Seaworld have both stated in their quarterly reports that their attendance is down as well. Seaworld saw a pretty substantial drop.

Not saying that Disney is in a perfect spot. I think their recent (within the last 5 years) policies are turning people away and making people consider other vacations. People this year are discovering that you can go to the real countries in the World Showcase for the same price or less than a trip to WDW.

again the actual data says differently. Unless you believe Disney is driving down attendance in the region, then you have to admit this is a change in the market (not driven by any one company) that they are all going to have to deal with

 

[HokieRaven5]

With the lower attendance at Disney vs last year, it's also important to note that Universal and Seaworld have both stated in their quarterly reports that their attendance is down as well. Seaworld saw a pretty substantial drop.

Not saying that Disney is in a perfect spot. I think their recent (within the last 5 years) policies are turning people away and making people consider other vacations. People this year are discovering that you can go to the real countries in the World Showcase for the same or less than a trip to WDW.

That’s what I want to see next week, what Disney reports in their 10-Q as far as park attendance for Q3. For Q2 attendance at Domestic parks was up 7% from 2022.

Comcast doesn’t share that information as detailed as Disney does.

It also isn’t just exclusive to the parks. A bunch of areas in Southern Florida in general since March have been lower in terms of travel vs 2022. People are just going elsewhere.

 

[Smugpugmug]

That’s what I want to see next week, what Disney reports in their 10-Q as far as park attendance for Q2. Comcast doesn’t share that information as detailed as Disney does.

It also isn’t just exclusive to the parks. A bunch of areas in Southern Florida in general since March has been lower in terms of travel vs 2022. People are just going elsewhere.

Yeah that's what I mean. People are going to other places than central Florida. Travel isn't down globally. It's booming right now.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yeah that's what I mean. People are going to other places than central Florida. Travel isn't down globally. It's booming right now.

i think because people feel safe from Covid now, they are more willing to travel overseas, whereas the last few years they felt like the only option was domestic travel to "open" states. I think it's going to take another few years, but water will seek its level

 

[Smugpugmug]

i think because people feel safe from Covid now, they are more willing to travel overseas, whereas the last few years they felt like the only option was domestic travel to "open" states. I think it's going to take another few years, but water will seek its level

Agreed that it'll take a few years. It's eye opening how you can go see other countries for a similar price as WDW.

 

[bryaalre]

Agreed that it'll take a few years. It's eye opening how you can go see other countries for a similar price as WDW.

I'd rather do WDW.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'd rather do WDW.

I would take the international trip any day of the week but that's just my opinion.

 

[Boski]

I'd rather do WDW.

That is awesome and I truly am happy you enjoy going to WDW, I personally wouldn't and haven't. To me WDW price increases and decreased value have made me and my family spend our vacation dollars elsewhere. You can do some serious traveling on a WDW budget and for us that is just way more enjoyable.

 

[clarker99]

The mainstream media seems to be turning on Disney / Iger a bit right now. I have seen more articles in the last 10 days that pain Disney / Iger in a negative light than I did in the previous 5 years.

Suddenly the same exact publications that were lambasting youtubers for negative movie / TV series reviews are saying the same exact type of things now.

Um. Every article forever is a negative Disney article. Even if a person is murdered 30mins from Disney property, the headline will read, “Man Killed Outside Magic Kingdom”.

Doom and gloom drives clicks.

PSA: Disney is gonna be okay. Even if you choose to go to Europe.

 

[BrianL]

I would take the international trip any day of the week but that's just my opinion.

I'll take the International trip, but only if it's to Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, or Shanghai....

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'll take the International trip, but only if it's to Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, or Shanghai....

If only TDR would announce when Fantasy Springs opens so I can start booking my Japan trip??? Come on people.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'll take the International trip, but only if it's to Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, or Shanghai....

I'll take it if it includes Europa Park and Efteling.

 

[Brian Noble]

Comcast doesn’t share that information as detailed as Disney does.

You can approximate it with wait times at thrill-data. It's not perfect, but it will give one a sense of the trends. (Last I looked: Universal Orlando and WDW both saw wait times drop comparably.) The TEA/AECOM annual figures will also give you a sense, but those are only annual and don't come out until very late the following spring/early summer.

i think because people feel safe from Covid now, they are more willing to travel overseas

It's not just safety, it's also hassle. We had a trip to Ibiza planned for June '22, but ended up cancelling it when it was not clear we would easily be able to get back into the US. At that point, testing positive delayed your return potentially by a week or more, and we could not afford to do that.

We did Boston and northern Vermont instead. It was definitely not Ibiza, but it was a lot of fun.

Our first post-pandemic international trip finally came up this past February. Vidanta's Grand Mayan NV. It was spectacular.

I'll take the International trip, but only if it's to Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, or Shanghai.

Shagnhai Pirates is worth the admission by itself. For a while I was not sure I was ready to go back to China (or even HK) given the threat of lockdowns there. I have some colleagues at the SJTU JI who were confined to their apartment buildings for weeks on end, more than once.

However, it seems as though The Pivot is real, so maybe it's back in play.

 

[BrianL]

You an approximate it with wait times at thrill-data. It's not perfect, but it will give one a sense of the trends. (Last I looked: Universal Orlando and WDW both saw wait times drop comparably.) The TEA/AECOM annual figures will also give you a sense, but those are only annual and don't come out until very late the following spring/early summer.


It's not just safety, it's also hassle. We had a trip to Ibiza planned for June '22, but ended up cancelling it when it was not clear we would easily be able to get back into the US. At that point, testing positive delayed your return potentially by a week or more, and we could not afford to do that.

We did Boston and northern Vermont instead. It was definitely not Ibiza, but it was a lot of fun.


Shagnhai Pirates is worth the admission by itself. For a while I was not sure I was ready to go back to China (or even HK) given the threat of lockdowns there. I have some colleagues at the SJTU JI who were confined to their apartment buildings for weeks on end, more than once.

However, it seems as though The Pivot is real, so maybe it's back in play.

Yeah, I've never been to sure about travelling to China. Hong Kong maybe, but I don't know about Shanghai. I want to do Paris first anyway, so I need to get on that.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

You can approximate it with wait times at thrill-data. It's not perfect, but it will give one a sense of the trends. (Last I looked: Universal Orlando and WDW both saw wait times drop comparably.) The TEA/AECOM annual figures will also give you a sense, but those are only annual and don't come out until very late the following spring/early summer.


It's not just safety, it's also hassle. We had a trip to Ibiza planned for June '22, but ended up cancelling it when it was not clear we would easily be able to get back into the US. At that point, testing positive delayed your return potentially by a week or more, and we could not afford to do that.

We did Boston and northern Vermont instead. It was definitely not Ibiza, but it was a lot of fun.

Our first post-pandemic international trip finally came up this past February. Vidanta's Grand Mayan NV. It was spectacular.


Shagnhai Pirates is worth the admission by itself. For a while I was not sure I was ready to go back to China (or even HK) given the threat of lockdowns there. I have some colleagues at the SJTU JI who were confined to their apartment buildings for weeks on end, more than once.

However, it seems as though The Pivot is real, so maybe it's back in play.

Good point! My parents got an extra week in Aruba because of Covid rules

 

[Smugpugmug]

You can approximate it with wait times at thrill-data. It's not perfect, but it will give one a sense of the trends. (Last I looked: Universal Orlando and WDW both saw wait times drop comparably.) The TEA/AECOM annual figures will also give you a sense, but those are only annual and don't come out until very late the following spring/early summer.


It's not just safety, it's also hassle. We had a trip to Ibiza planned for June '22, but ended up cancelling it when it was not clear we would easily be able to get back into the US. At that point, testing positive delayed your return potentially by a week or more, and we could not afford to do that.

We did Boston and northern Vermont instead. It was definitely not Ibiza, but it was a lot of fun.

Our first post-pandemic international trip finally came up this past February. Vidanta's Grand Mayan NV. It was spectacular.


Shagnhai Pirates is worth the admission by itself. For a while I was not sure I was ready to go back to China (or even HK) given the threat of lockdowns there. I have some colleagues at the SJTU JI who were confined to their apartment buildings for weeks on end, more than once.

However, it seems as though The Pivot is real, so maybe it's back in play.

Agreed about the hassle part. My entire extended family wanted to do a big Italy trip that fell through due to testing and the worries of being able to return to the US. We're doing a cruise this year instead and put Italy on the backburner. Those Italy crowds look like WDW anyway!

 

[Brian Noble]

Yeah, I've never been to sure about travelling to China. Hong Kong maybe, but I don't know about Shanghai. I want to do Paris first anyway, so I need to get on that.

I've been to Shanghai many times. It is very "Western friendly." Most signage is in both Chinese and English, and the parts you are likely to find yourself in are very well-kept. The metro is easy to navigate, and the bus system only slightly less so. The only trick to remember in Shanghai is to always take a taxi card with you whenever you go out and about, because the cab drivers speak absolutely no English, and will not recognize the English name of your hotel.

If you want to explore it more authentically, there are several bilingual expat tour guides who can show you around. I would particularly recommend the Night Market tour that these folks do. If the Night Market tour is a bit too adventurous, the breakfast tour is also very good. I also did a couple of cooking classes, but that vendor no longer appears to be in business under the same name. And if you are lucky enough to know a group of locals, have them take you to hot pot.

For Paris, we did a week in an apartment in the city, followed by four nights at DLRP. That might have been one night more than we needed at Disney, but the Studios park was also a lot less interesting then, so maybe that would work now. We kept ourselves busy for the first week almost exclusively with museums. My favorites are the Rodin and the Orsay. The l'Orangerie is small but a hidden gem; the Water Lilies series is stunning. I suppose you have to go the Louvre, but I find myself skipping it as often as not. Somehow I still have not been to Versailles.