"Bad Teacher" barks up the wrong tree!!!

[anniemae]

Does this teacher have a rep for being tough? If half the class failed, I question why on earth the teacher would want the grades displayed. It's like advertising that he/she is not a very good teacher. Open house is supposed to "show off" the good stuff I thought.

Some years we have good teachers, other years we don't. I try to use it as a learning experience. I look at it the way: In life, there will be good neighbors and bad, good bosses and bad, good co-workers and bad etc. Sometimes you have to find a way to make it work.

Glad your son was switched and the principal listened to your request. Hopefully this new teacher will be a better fit with your son.

 

[luvmy3]

Maybe I should explain the circumstances a little clearer. My son is the type of kid who is motivated by positive reinforcement in school. Also someone who has zero confidence in himself. This was not the only incident where she has rubbed me the wrong way. Just the straw that broke the camels back.

Just curious if you are always going to run to his aide and pull him out of a class when he doesn't get positive reinforcement from his teacher?

I have a 10 year old 5th grader and my response would have been telling him he should have done better if he didn't want to be embarrassed by his work. (knowing full well my child is capable of doing better).
Like a pp, I'd be more concerned with the reason he got a 44 instead of it being out on his desk.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I agree with you, lukenick. I would have been speaking with the teacher, and probably the school administrators, too.

Your son owns the grade he got on the assignment and the repercussions for the bad grade. But ...

My daughters are 23 and 21 years old, I went to a lot of Open House nights at school over the years. Open House night is not the time to deal with bad grades or problems in the classroom, it is the opportunity for the students and the teacher to show off the great work they are doing.

If half of the class failed the assignment, the teacher probably should not have included it as part of the Open House display. As a side note, I'd be asking the teacher what went wrong, why so many of the students didn't "get' the assignment.

If your son felt uncomfortable with the grade, but the teacher needed you to see the assignment to understand his progress or lack thereof, she could have done so without publicly humiliating him.

And yes, I do believe that there are laws, rules and regulations these days that protect student privacy, including grades, that weren't a factor when a lot uf us were growing up. I'm not sure if leaving the child's graded assignments at his desk where anyone who walks into the classroom can easily go through his papers falls within the parameters of the rules and regulations. But I would not be comfortable with it.

 

[JanaDee]

Sometimes kids need to know their parents have their back. This is one of those times.

Good for you for standing up for your son.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

No and I have no idea where this line of thinking come from.

I see no reason at all for grades to be kept confidential. Full stop.

I am not an educator or a lawyer, but from what I understand, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act allows for students and parents the right to deny public access to educational records.

Most of the time, parents sign a permission slip allowing work to be displayed in bulletin boards, etc., so I'm not sure where this falls. Again, I'm not a lawyer or an educator. Interestingly, though, FERPA was enacted in 1974. Not sure if that's before your time in public school, FireDancer.

An FAQ I found on Penn State's website indicated peer graded work and work that hasn't been recorded yet in a gradebook don't count as part of an "educational record" either. So... whatever.

 

[dbramer]

I may be wrong here but shouldn't grades be kept confidential?

Technically, according to FERPA (Family Educational Records Protection Act), which is very similar to HIPAA in many respects, indicates that graded work that is personally identifiable is not to be displayed publicly. Grades are to be kept confidential and cannot be shared or displayed unless steps are taken to make the graded work unidentifiable or so that it cannot be attributed to a particular student.

My school is pushing us to have exemplary student work displayed, but at the same time, that violates the federal statutes. Some students, especially in high school, are uncomfortable with having exemplary work displayed.

Either way, displaying any student product that is graded and identifiable violates federal law.

In my classroom, I do not write grades on the papers or projects themselves as we use an online gradebook that parents and students can access their own grades from. If they ask what grade they received on a particular assignment, I refer them to the online gradebook.

 

[smitch425]

Other parents who are friends of mine saw other papers.......I didn't stay in the room long enough to even look. I wanted to blast her!! I was warned by past students how awful of a teacher she was. Other parents in the principles office weekly complaining about her but my son wanted her because she was nice to him in the hallways previously. Once he got to know her as a teacher, it all changed. She is just nasty. My son went to remove his paper from his desk with my husband not far behind him and the teacher snatched it right from his hand and said in a nasty tone "OH NO you put that right back!" My DH walked up to her and grabbed it from her and asked her why she would display it? She completely lied right to his face and said it wasn't displayed, it was upside down on the desk.

If your husband wasn't with your son until he already had it in his hand, how do you know it wasn't face down? Perhaps she put his paper face down because she knew he was uneasy about it? Seems as though a lot of assumptions are being made to me. I take it your school doesn't switch classes throughout the day. Here, both 4th and 5th grade students will have all of the teachers each day. Switching home room teachers would do nothing for a kid in our district.

 

[lukenick1]

Technically, according to FERPA (Family Educational Records Protection Act), which is very similar to HIPAA in many respects, indicates that graded work that is personally identifiable is not to be displayed publicly. Grades are to be kept confidential and cannot be shared or displayed unless steps are taken to make the graded work unidentifiable or so that it cannot be attributed to a particular student.

My school is pushing us to have exemplary student work displayed, but at the same time, that violates the federal statutes. Some students, especially in high school, are uncomfortable with having exemplary work displayed.

Either way, displaying any student product that is graded and identifiable violates federal law.

Amen. Just what I thought.

 

[luvsJack]

I may be wrong here but shouldn't grades be kept confidential?

Yes they should. Grades fall under FERPA.

When dd was in Elementary and Jr. High, the teacher knew weeks in advance when Open House would be. They chose different things to display so that each student's best work was out none of them would have ever displayed something a kid was not proud of. Some teachers even let the kids pick what to display.

But even when all Science or Book Fair projects are displayed, no grade was ever seen. There was no reason for her to have his grade showing.


As for those saying that they would just tell their child "you should have gotten a better grade"--for some kids that is just not good enough. For some kids on some projects a 44 is the best they can do.

 

[Axel]

If the teacher wanted to show parents work--all work, not just stellar work-- then anything graded should have been placed face-down on the desk. That's how I do it.

HOWEVER, it sounds like both of you overreacted. You sound like instead of confronting the teacher directly, you went over her head immediately. And you make her sound like the kind of teacher that is only out with bad intentions and deserves the worst punishment possible because she didn't treat your precious little snowflake who can't handle hearing anything bad about himself like the special piece of frozen water he is.

Yes, she should have respected your son's wish to not have an embarrassing grade displayed. BUT I think you're also taking it a bit too extremely.

It's good to hold students accountable no matter their age. It's not holding kids accountable to their work that leads to just plain old not doing it or not caring about the grade when they get to high school. They have to learn that this work is something that reflects on them and they need to own up to it. If they don't want to be embarrassed by their grade, they need to work for the better one.

 

[lukenick1]

If your husband wasn't with your son until he already had it in his hand, how do you know it wasn't face down? Perhaps she put his paper face down because she knew he was uneasy about it? Seems as though a lot of assumptions are being made to me. I take it your school doesn't switch classes throughout the day. Here, both 4th and 5th grade students will have all of the teachers each day. Switching home room teachers would do nothing for a kid in our district.

Because we all went in first to see the paper on his desk. I took a photo of it with my phone so I could show the principal it was displayed. Last years principal was in the room (her son is in the class) and I approached her telling her what was going on. We left the room, went to the office to speak privately to the new Principal. We then went back so that my son could retrieve the paper. It was still right side up when he picked it up.

 

[mamacatnv]

I'm not a teacher, or in education at all so I have nothing to defend. I'm a parent who has gotten one kid to grad school and the other to high school without having weekly showdowns with teachers and administrators along the way.

If as you say, 50% failed, then who cares that the papers are on display - teacher was sending a message, no one bothered to listen is my take on this one.

However, what I am hearing loud and clear is that you, OP, had a preconceived unfavorable impression of this teacher and have been waiting for your opportunity to pounce. The opportunity presented itself and like a lion on the kill you swooped right in. That is what I took away from your posts.

 

[barkley]

Technically, according to FERPA (Family Educational Records Protection Act), which is very similar to HIPAA in many respects, indicates that graded work that is personally identifiable is not to be displayed publicly. Grades are to be kept confidential and cannot be shared or displayed unless steps are taken to make the graded work unidentifiable or so that it cannot be attributed to a particular student.

My school is pushing us to have exemplary student work displayed, but at the same time, that violates the federal statutes. Some students, especially in high school, are uncomfortable with having exemplary work displayed.

Either way, displaying any student product that is graded and identifiable violates federal law.

In my classroom, I do not write grades on the papers or projects themselves as we use an online gradebook that parents and students can access their own grades from. If they ask what grade they received on a particular assignment, I refer them to the online gradebook.

yup, this was why at ds's former school anything that was displayed had a separate sheet that indicated the grade. if the kids had a diorama or art project or even reports that would be within public view they were required to hand in with it a single sheet of paper with their name/student number/the date/the assignment's title. that sheet of paper was what the teacher put the final grade on. we often got the grade sheet home before the project.

 

[lukenick1]

However, what I am hearing loud and clear is that you, OP, had a preconceived unfavorable impression of this teacher and have been waiting for your opportunity to pounce. The opportunity presented itself and like a lion on the kill you swooped right in. That is what I took away from your posts.

You may be on to something here. Call it guilt for not removing my son from his Kindergarten teachers room who did projects with peanut butter knowing my son was deathly allergic. Should have pounced then too.......

 

[pumpkinmomma]

No and I have no idea where this line of thinking come from. I had teachers post everyone's test scores and quarter grades up on a bulletin board, had teachers who read everyone their grades, had teachers who just put the graded tests and papers in a stack for everyone to find their own, and most of the rest were just handed to the first person in the row and handed back so anyone sitting in front of me could see my grade.

I see no reason at all for grades to be kept confidential. Full stop.

Um, this line of thinking came from FERPA. There is debate on whether this extends to grades on regular classwork, and FERPA doesn't cover material that is graded by peers, but quarter grades are certainly covered under FERPA and should be kept confidential.

FERPA isn't new. It was originally enacted in 1974.

As to the OP, personally I think displaying grades on a project at an open house serve no real purpose, especially if the intent is to shame the students who struggled. I'm not sure I would react the same way as the OP, but I wouldn't be particularly happy about my child having a teacher that finds that to be a productive way of motivating students.

 

[lukenick1]

yup, this was why at ds's former school anything that was displayed had a separate sheet that indicated the grade. if the kids had a diorama or art project or even reports that would be within public view they were required to hand in with it a single sheet of paper with their name/student number/the date/the assignment's title. that sheet of paper was what the teacher put the final grade on. we often got the grade sheet home before the project.

That is exactly what she displayed. The paper mache project with the sheet of paper with grade on it next to it. Why?

 

[luvmy3]

Thank you, finally someone understands. This was just WRONG on all levels.

Please don't mistake the fact that we'd handle the situation differently as "misunderstanding", I assure you I understand everything you said.
Fact is, that isn't something I'd "fight", but my child would know that about me and probably be more afraid of me seeing he got a 44 than he would embarrassed by others seeing it. However if I was the type to react, I'd speak to the teacher and discuss it with her. If I thought it was against the law, I'd bring that up so the teacher (and myself) could at some point confirm that. Then I'd explain to my child that the teacher made a mistake and hopefully it won't happen again.
I wouldn't rush to the Principal to have my child taken out of her class, unless of course I was prepared to do that any time my child was embarrassed or uncomfortable etc.
I'm a firm believe in prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child. So again, its not about misunderstanding, it is about having a different philosophy.

 

[luvsJack]

No and I have no idea where this line of thinking come from. I had teachers post everyone's test scores and quarter grades up on a bulletin board, had teachers who read everyone their grades, had teachers who just put the graded tests and papers in a stack for everyone to find their own, and most of the rest were just handed to the first person in the row and handed back so anyone sitting in front of me could see my grade.

I see no reason at all for grades to be kept confidential. Full stop.

FERPA came after your time in school. Public school falls under the same FERPA laws as colleges. Only difference is that of course, because they are minors, grades and such are given to their parents. Colleges can't do that.

It is against the law. And for the most part it is a good thing. Other students nor parents need to know anyone's grade. It can be humiliating to some kids and that doesn't help the educational process.

 

[luvmy3]

That is exactly what she displayed. The paper mache project with the sheet of paper with grade on it next to it. Why?

Did you ask the teacher?

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Thank you, finally someone understands. The nay sayers must be teachers. This was just WRONG on all levels. Open house is supposed to be a time to meet the teacher, see the classroom, etc. Not a time to discuss grades. Display the projects but eliminates the grade for it. The grade was on a separate piece of paperm sitting next to the paper mache project
for crying out loud!

Actually, no, I don't think anyone who posted here is a teacher -- if I'm wrong, someone will correct me.

And let me tell you what my personal bias is.

My father is a retired school principal. My mother was a teacher for many years. My ex husband is a teacher. My older daughter is a paraprofessional in an elementary school and is working on her master's in education with the goal of becoming a special ed teacher.


I will share two stories from my parenting days.

Older daughter had a major issue in 8th grade with her social studies teacher. She missed a test for legitimate reasons. He told her to come back during her lunch period so she could make up the test. She stopped at the cafeteria to get a Snapple and was 20 minutes late for the make up test. He was very angry with her, as well he should be. But he yelled at her in front of the entire class. Publicly humiliated her. After that, she tuned him out. Barely passed the class.

Same daughter in 9th grade. English teacher took a dislike to my daughter on the first day of class. My daughter was going through a "school is getting in the way of my social life" phase. The teacher was looking for reasons to fail my daughter, and my daughter did not disappoint. About half way through the school year my daughter decided she really didn't want to go to summer school, but by then there was nothing she could do to pull herself out of the hole. With another teacher, one who would be supportive and encouraging, the result might have been different. My daughter managed an "A" in summer school English.

But the funny thing...my daughter was not alone. There were 8 other students who failed 9th grade English, and they all had the same teacher as my daughter. In our high school, that is a very high failure rate. There must have been other issues, too, because she was not granted tenure in our district. Nor in the district where she wound up after leaving us. She taught in 3 different school districts, and none of them gave her tenure. I heard she left the teaching profession.

(And you'll never guess what my daughter majored in...yes, she's got a BA in English.)

So yes, I believe in the kids owning their grades, good or bad. And yes, I believe in allowing my children to deal with their issues with their teachers. but you know, negative reinforcement and public humiliation are usually not good motivating factors. i know what kind of teacher my daughter is going to be...and she's not going to be like the two teachers who made her miserable.