Back to school *vent*

[monsterkitty]

While I agree with you for the most part I think it's only fair that parents (including those who are teachers) have a right to question what is going on in our schools "these days". Scores are dropping, budgets are out of control, parents suing the schools every other day, etc. Now, not to say that parents aren't responsible for some of the kids behavior, but when scores of education clearly drop year over year I do think we have a right to question why.

I also think a lot of people look back and say "that NEVER happened when I was in school" and look at the children of this world today and wonder if the minutae has gotten in the way of the big picture. When we are falling behind other countries in education someone has to answer to it, so NOW is it back on the parents? Or do we "leave those answers to the professionals." And I'm HONESTLY not being snarky...just questioning.

Yes, test scores do drop every year. There isn't just one reason or cause behind this. I do have a theory. It is probably not going to make me popular here, or anywhere else, but I am going to share it with you.

How many times have you heard someone complain about an assignment, test, project, or homework a teacher as given the student? Now how many times have you heard others tell the parents to go to the principal or school board about the assignment? More than once? Twice? Now how many times have you said to your child or heard someone say to their child, "That's ok, I'm not good at math either," or "That teacher's expectations are crazy"?

Let's talk about teaching to the test. Do teachers really teach to the test? Probably. However, looking at our state test for the middle school level there is not one question on there that a child should not know. What's wrong with teaching the children correct grammar, paragraph construction, research skills, or even, gosh forbid, making them multiply without a calculator? By teaching these concepts I am teaching to the test.

Is learning always supposed to be fun? Nope. Learning can't always be fun. Teachers are not entertainers and we can be boring at times. Heck, I've even resorted to teaching behind a hollowed-out TV and dressed like Mario to get the kids attention. But we can only be so entertaining.

It all boils down to our expectations. Do we want to set high, yet reachable, expectations for our students? Or do we want to lower our expectations so that children don't have to work as hard? Ask any child who has attended school in another country and 99% of the time he or she will tell you that we have much lower expectations in our schools.

So, according to my theory, what do we need to do to raise test scores? Raise our expectations so that they are obtainable. Remember, what one student can do is not what another student can do, so the expectations may have to vary. What we need to stop doing is allowing the kids to quit trying when something gets hard. We need to push them and guide them through what is difficult. If you walk into my classroom you will see a sign that my kids made that says "I can't is not allowed. I can and I will." My kids know, that despite my high expecations, I will never set them up for failure. We will work until we get it.

Most importantly, we need to all work together and not against.

 

[wendydarling826]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns that I'm not sure what it's actually about any more. Having tried to shop for a bathing suit in July when the stores have out their winter coats and Halloween decorations, I think there are probably a lot of aggravated parents trying to find required supplies in stores that don't have what they need. Until a few years ago, the school where I taught held a stationery sale, and parents were required to buy the supplies there so that everyone had the same thing. Parents complained that they could get the supplies cheaper elsewhere, so that that was changed. Now parents complain that they can't find the required supplies. I don't know what the answer is. I know that it really minimizes transitional time in the classroom if the kids all have the same color math folder, etc. Learning to be organized is important to a child's success in school, and much of what I require in the way of supplies is to help with organization. It's a lot easier to say "take out your blue folder" than to say "take out whatever printed folder you've stuffed your math homework in." Color coding really does save time in the school day.
I have to say that most of the parents of the students I've taught are supportive and understand that I'm trying my best to provide the best education I can for their child, and because we work in partnership, their children tend to have a positive school experience. Then there are people who just like to complain, and they will complain no matter what you do. And then there are people who for whatever reason, refuse to do what is requested, and then it's up to the rest of the village to provide for their child. That's just how it is.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Of course parents should be involved and concerned about the education of their children! Do you all who are teachers and parents ever question what goes in in their children's classrooms? Too funny. No one should just abdicate their responsibility for their child's education to anyone. Monsterkitty you make some
very valid points about learning.

I don't personally compare our scores with other countries with some possible grant writing applications.


As for telling a teacher what to do in their classroom people can have opinions! That is what the discussion in discussion board is all about. Now most people aren't lucky enough to get paid for it, lol, but that can be a pitb!

I apologize for not being able to quote, and any other issues with this post! The phone is being difficult.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Thinking about this thread, and the comments by the extremes. It really is sad. I love reading about people who can disagree and not get snotty. To the teachers who throw out that vibe, I can guarantee that the majority of parents will love you, even if they don't like everything you do in your classroom. And, to the parents who might think that dome of the requests are silly ordifficult, but go out and buy anyway, even buying extra, you get the same guarantee. Because the teachers dealing with you do see that you only want yhe best for your child.

We all know there are crazies and extremes out there. I hate to see the lines drawn in the sand based on them.

 

[albertamommyof4]

well since this is about school supplies( originally ) that is what i will post.
The school my kids go to is k-9 so every grade varies. I will have 1 in grade 7, 1 in grade 5 and one is grade 3( other is preschooler)
grade 5 seems the most expensive
24 sharpened good quality hb
3 ball point pens blue fine
1 red pen
2 white erasers
1 covered pencil sharpener
1 inexpensive calculate
1 pair of scissors
1 ruler
3 large glue stick
1 package pencil crayons laurentien and hsarpened
20 duotangs
2 100 packages of refill sheets
20 keytab scribblers( they dont really use them as keytabs)
gym shoes
2 boxes kleenes
1 pair headphones and not earbud style
1 pkge markers
now i don't mind buying these supplies every year but really please use them the way they are intended to if not then let s buy what we can afford. Also wehen i buy my kid the supplies i expect him/her to use them not the whole class. I do not appreciate having to buy and buy and buy for every one else. I don;t mind if they had on the sheet buy for classroom but they dont they say that these are your kids supplies only.
Last year i think i bout a extra 40 pencils for my one child as the teacher kept saying that he never had any, come to find out that the teacher shared them and a lot of other kids never brought any in.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

... besides "learning" (which should be priority #1)... is to prepare my child for the real world.

In the real world, most of us have bosses. Most bosses set expectations for us. "You must do a-b-c." "You must do a-b-c in this manner." "You must do a-b-c by this deadline date."

Sure, we have some leeway, but for the most part we are expected to do as we're told, when we're told. No, my boss doesn't tell me what color folders to put the proposal in. However - if I do my job well, he/she will begin to trust me to make more subjective decisions regarding my work. That is how one gets promoted through the ranks in the "real world." You follow the rules, do as you're told, and do it well.

As I see it... my child's job is to follow the rules. Regardless of how "pointless" they seem to me, I'm NOT a teacher, and I do NOT need to know "why" all the time. If someone who is NOT familiar with my job, or my expectations asked me a million "why" questions regarding my work - I wouldn't feel the need to answer them any more than I expect my child's teacher to explain every little "rule" to me.

IMO - The fact that so many parents not only allow, but encourage, their children to "talk back" and/or question their teachers is a HUGE disappointment.

My job is my job... I must adhere to my boss' rules, regardless of my thoughts on them. My children's job is SCHOOL, and they must adhere to the rules in place for them as well.

My 2 cents....

 

[angelmav]

... besides "learning" (which should be priority #1)... is to prepare my child for the real world.

In the real world, most of us have bosses. Most bosses set expectations for us. "You must do a-b-c." "You must do a-b-c in this manner." "You must do a-b-c by this deadline date."

Sure, we have some leeway, but for the most part we are expected to do as we're told, when we're told. No, my boss doesn't tell me what color folders to put the proposal in. However - if I do my job well, he/she will begin to trust me to make more subjective decisions regarding my work. That is how one gets promoted through the ranks in the "real world." You follow the rules, do as you're told, and do it well.

As I see it... my child's job is to follow the rules. Regardless of how "pointless" they seem to me, I'm NOT a teacher, and I do NOT need to know "why" all the time. If someone who is NOT familiar with my job, or my expectations asked me a million "why" questions regarding my work - I wouldn't feel the need to answer them any more than I expect my child's teacher to explain every little "rule" to me.

IMO - The fact that so many parents not only allow, but encourage, their children to "talk back" and/or question their teachers is a HUGE disappointment.

My job is my job... I must adhere to my boss' rules, regardless of my thoughts on them. My children's job is SCHOOL, and they must adhere to the rules in place for them as well.

My 2 cents....

I think the word for this is creating sheeple.

Back talking shouldnt be allowed, but a teaching environment without regard to being able to question isnt really the answer is it??

FWIW, each of the past 3 years (since moving into this district) at the end of the year my kids brough home tons of leftover supplies, their original origins a mystery, that the teachers wanted to clear out.

It has already been mentioned here the need to color coordinate high schoolers composition books.

Just seems to be a disconnect between what is needed and what is mandated.

 

[torinsmom]

I have a question for someone who knows more about other countries' educational systems. Is there free public education for every child in the countries that are doing do much better than us?

If I could pick and choose what kids I taught, I could be teaching at a much higher level, even with PreK/K. My K's coming back this year(they were PreK last year) are a very diverse mix knowledge wise. I have four that are already reading and recognize numbers through 100. I have 2 that know about half their letter sounds and numbers through 20 and I have 2 that were not able to learn any letter sounds or numbers beyond 5. These students(except one who is an English Language Learner) all had the same opportunities throughout the year.

So, what should the US do? Kick out the kids in that bottom rung now, and give the middle rung another year to see if they are "worthy" of teaching? I don't really care how other countries educate children; we have a responsibility to teach all the children.

Marsha

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I have a question for someone who knows more about other countries' educational systems. Is there free public education for every child in the countries that are doing do much better than us?

If I could pick and choose what kids I taught, I could be teaching at a much higher level, even with PreK/K. My K's coming back this year(they were PreK last year) are a very diverse mix knowledge wise. I have four that are already reading and recognize numbers through 100. I have 2 that know about half their letter sounds and numbers through 20 and I have 2 that were not able to learn any letter sounds or numbers beyond 5. These students(except one who is an English Language Learner) all had the same opportunities throughout the year.

So, what should the US do? Kick out the kids in that bottom rung now, and give the middle rung another year to see if they are "worthy" of teaching? I don't really care how other countries educate children; we have a responsibility to teach all the children.

Marsha

Isn't is weird how many people know how stupid nclb is but the govt. doesn't get it? IMO, Kids should get the education that is right for them. In some ways that is what some other countries do, but to the extreme. I don't want my kids pulled and made into gymnastics because they show a knack. But, otoh, it would be nice if it was understood that kids are different.

Someone said something about vocational school. Do you all not have that anymore? Our county does. We've also made good connections with the trade unions who will apprentice interested young people.

 

[torinsmom]

Isn't is weird how many people know how stupid nclb is but the govt. doesn't get it? IMO, Kids should get the education that is right for them. In some ways that is what some other countries do, but to the extreme. I don't want my kids pulled and made into gymnastics because they show a knack. But, otoh, it would be nice if it was understood that kids are different.

Someone said something about vocational school. Do you all not have that anymore? Our county does. We've also made good connections with the trade unions who will apprentice interested young people.

The government does not get it, nor does our district higher ups. We are a Montessori magnet school. Each child moves at their own pace, so we have kindergarteners who are learning numbers 1-10 still and kindergarteners that are learning beginning multiplication. Same with language lessons. Yet the district gives us a new math curriculum that is to be used with the whole group. It spends the first few weeks on 1-10, which is not helpful for more than half our kids. My principal okayed me to use the curriculum individually, which helps a lot, but I am sure the abilities of kids in the traditional schools are just as diverse. Why should some kids be bored because they are beyond that skill, while others are confused because they are not ready for the skill? Usually, the lesson is just right for about 1/5 of the class.

Marsha

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

The government does not get it, nor does our district higher ups. We are a Montessori magnet school. Each child moves at their own pace, so we have kindergarteners who are learning numbers 1-10 still and kindergarteners that are learning beginning multiplication. Same with language lessons. Yet the district gives us a new math curriculum that is to be used with the whole group. It spends the first few weeks on 1-10, which is not helpful for more than half our kids. My principal okayed me to use the curriculum individually, which helps a lot, but I am sure the abilities of kids in the traditional schools are just as diverse. Why should some kids be bored because they are beyond that skill, while others are confused because they are not ready for the skill? Usually, the lesson is just right for about 1/5 of the class.

Marsha

Well, I don't know how you do it. What is the purpose of being a teacher is a program MADE to be individual, when you are made to follow a curriculum that doesn't work that way. Bless your heart for trying.

 

[MM27]

I have a question for someone who knows more about other countries' educational systems. Is there free public education for every child in the countries that are doing do much better than us?

If I could pick and choose what kids I taught, I could be teaching at a much higher level, even with PreK/K. My K's coming back this year(they were PreK last year) are a very diverse mix knowledge wise. I have four that are already reading and recognize numbers through 100. I have 2 that know about half their letter sounds and numbers through 20 and I have 2 that were not able to learn any letter sounds or numbers beyond 5. These students(except one who is an English Language Learner) all had the same opportunities throughout the year.

So, what should the US do? Kick out the kids in that bottom rung now, and give the middle rung another year to see if they are "worthy" of teaching? I don't really care how other countries educate children; we have a responsibility to teach all the children.

Marsha

I have a friend from Jamaica. Okay, not a top performing country, but I will use it as an example. When she reached the equivalent of 8th grade, all students were tested. If you performed poorly on the test, that was basically it for your education. Unless your parents had money and could afford private education for you, you started work. Those that were successful were sent away to boarding schools to get a high school education.

I teach 4th grade in an urban area of NJ. I do what I can with what I get each year. I have high expectations for my students, but I am also realistic and know that some of my students will not pass state testing in May. Every year I get students that can't read beyond a pre-primer level (which is about kindergarten) all the way to beyond a 4th grade level. The same thing happens across subject areas. So we differentiate instruction to reach kids at their level. The problem is, the testing is at grade level. So all year we are teaching some of these kids at their level, only to throw a test at them that they can't read and tell them they need to pass. I can tell you that most, if not all, of my students leave my class at a higher level than they entered, but all of them will not always pass state testing.

I don't ask for much in the beginning of the year as far as supplies go. I suggest a few things, but I would never hold anyone responsible for not having the items that I ask for. I've learned from reading various threads here on the DIS that there are some parents that just have issues with teachers. No matter what the issue is, the teacher is wrong, teachers are horrible, etc. If you have a problem with every teacher your child has had, perhaps it's time to look in the mirror and see where the real problem might start. I don't believe that any child will be devastated because they had to write in a blue notebook instead of a green one. Why is it such a big deal that the teacher is trying to make things easier for him/her self and the child?

On the flip side, I've worked with teachers that have problems with just about every parent they interact with. I actually worked with someone this year that the mother went to my principal and wanted to know why she never had problems with me, but she did with my teaching partner. I don't like to get in the middle of things like that, but I've learned over time that you have to not take everything personal. I know that parents want the best for their kids. I also know though that I am responsible for the education of all the kids I teach and not just the one that has the loudest parent. You have to be able to find a place in the middle to make everyone content.

 

[ilovejack02]

For the teachers and others that actually work in a school: Face it Parents that have never worked on a day-to-day basis with kids in a school room will NEVER understand the "whys" and "whats" of running a classroom. Keep doing what you do and don't worry about the complainers...they will never be happy no matter what you do.

For the Parents who have never worked at a school: If you think you can do a better job then go earn your teaching degree and you can set your own rules for classroom management....until then buy your child the supplies he/she needs and stop whining like 2 year olds and let the paid professionals do their job.Just sayin'

I heart Mum4jenn, she is right!

 

[luvmy3]

well since this is about school supplies( originally ) that is what i will post.
The school my kids go to is k-9 so every grade varies. I will have 1 in grade 7, 1 in grade 5 and one is grade 3( other is preschooler)
grade 5 seems the most expensive
24 sharpened good quality hb
3 ball point pens blue fine
1 red pen
2 white erasers
1 covered pencil sharpener
1 inexpensive calculate
1 pair of scissors
1 ruler
3 large glue stick
1 package pencil crayons laurentien and hsarpened
20 duotangs
2 100 packages of refill sheets
20 keytab scribblers( they dont really use them as keytabs)
gym shoes
2 boxes kleenes
1 pair headphones and not earbud style
1 pkge markers
now i don't mind buying these supplies every year but really please use them the way they are intended to if not then let s buy what we can afford. Also wehen i buy my kid the supplies i expect him/her to use them not the whole class. I do not appreciate having to buy and buy and buy for every one else. I don;t mind if they had on the sheet buy for classroom but they dont they say that these are your kids supplies only.
Last year i think i bout a extra 40 pencils for my one child as the teacher kept saying that he never had any, come to find out that the teacher shared them and a lot of other kids never brought any in.

Whats a keytab scribbler?


Anyone looking for colored 3 subjects, Walmart had them for $1.38 and colored folders for 15 cents. I got sturdier ones for 77 cents but I am done with 2 lists now just waiting to get the third.

The bolded would infuriate me.

 

[TwinsinCA]

Whats a keytab scribbler?


The bolded would infuriate me.

I tried to find out what one of those scribblers was too and all that came up was the name on a bunch of school lists. Not helpful!

And ditto about the bolded part.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

I haven't read all of the posts, but I feel better about the supply list that I gave my 1st graders..... they don't have that much to buy in comparison. Of course, I have already spent $160 out of my own pocket, and school doesn't start for another week. That total will be well over $400 by the end of the school year..... that would be a lot of money that could go towards my boys' Disney trip.

Oh well, it is what it is. I don't "have" to buy the extras.... but I like my students' reactions when they get the sparkly stickers on the their papers, the pretty name tags on the desks, the joy they get from the fun art projects. I work in a middle/upper middle class school, and my parents volunteer and help out a lot too, so it is all good!

 

[torinsmom]

Well, I don't know how you do it. What is the purpose of being a teacher is a program MADE to be individual, when you are made to follow a curriculum that doesn't work that way. Bless your heart for trying.

We just do our best. I actually individualize quite a bit, and just use the mandated curriculum when the big wigs come Our kids typically score a lot higher than the traditional programs, so you think the district would get a clue.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

We just do our best. I actually individualize quite a bit, and just use the mandated curriculum when the big wigs come Our kids typically score a lot higher than the traditional programs, so you think the district would get a clue.

lol, they will give the credit to the math curriculum...write a grant...and get you something else you don't need.

 

[torinsmom]

lol, they will give the credit to the math curriculum...write a grant...and get you something else you don't need.

I think I will send them a copy of my action research study for grad school. I am comparing the kids achievement and interest when we do the math as a whole group vs. when we individualize based on their needs. I have no doubt what the results will show since I have lived it for 11 years.

Marsha

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I think I will send them a copy of my action research study for grad school. I am comparing the kids achievement and interest when we do the math as a whole group vs. when we individualize based on their needs. I have no doubt what the results will show since I have lived it for 11 years.

Marsha

Good luck with your project, and I would LOVE to see them receive your research.