Back to school *vent*

[torinsmom]

I always tell the teachers to contact me if they need anything. I am not a teacher but my mom was a parapro for the last elementary school I attended and I have worked in all grade elementary grade level classes as a volunteer and a TA when I was going to school to be a teacher (changed that plan) and I have seen how much some teachers have had to put out. I will help out all I can. Last year my youngest came home to tell me there was only 1 more glue stick in the drawer and then they would be out so we went out and bought her teacher about 20 packs or so of gluesticks. I don't want my child going without but I also don't feel the teacher should have to take their paycheck (not paid enough in my opinion as is) to keep providing for everyone's kids. I will continue to help the teachers out and if they get more than they need I don't care if they share with other teachers.

As for the teacher requests, I have only ever requested 2 teachers in my kids school careers (oldest is a senior). The first one was done due to my son's medical and the one teacher would not have been a good fit for him. His teacher from the year prior is who went against her personal beliefs and had me request the teacher for the next year as she knew that he would not do well and would probably walk all over the over teacher. The second request made was for my now 7th grade daughter. That was done as the teacher requested and my mom set it up. It really was the best fit for my daughter and the interim principal at the time started to ignore it and then said if the teacher said it needed to happen he would change it. The teacher said it needed to happen so my dd got that teacher. I am thankful for that one as that teacher also helped in detremining there was an issue needing addressed with my dd. That school no longer allows requests either except for teachers requesting who they want their kids to have. My youngest no longer attends that school and the school she attends allows for requests. I don't know the teachers at the new school but trust the staff and her previous teacher in deciding who would be the best teacher for her. We met her new teacher the other night and I really like him and she seems to as well.

At my old school, they used to let me pick my child's next teachers. It was a Montessori school also, so he only changed classes once every three years. So I picked his 1st-3rd grade teacher--everyone said she was the best. But guess what? She was not the best for my child. After 1st grade, the intern in that classroom got his own class and my child went with him. When he was ready to move on to 4th grade, I let that teacher tell me where he would do best and requested that teacher. It is not who I would have chosen, but wow, was it the best choice for him! That being said, for the most part, I am allowed to choose what class my students go to for 1st-3rd grade. I take into account my knowledge of how the child is at school, any learning issues and also the parent's personality(don't want teacher/parent butting heads). We can also state who should be kept together and who should be separated at all costs. Parents are allowed to send in a letter that describes the TYPE of teacher they feel their child would do best with, but not name names.

The problem at our old school when they let parents request is that more parents would request a teacher than could fit in that class. So the ones whose kids didn't get in that class would throw a fit and claim there was favoritism. One year, I had two kids in my class whose parents had requested another teacher. They were so rude to me, even though their kids were doing well and liked me. Luckily two kids left that other room in the middle of the year. The director did not want to move the kids because the parents had been so nasty, but I begged her to move them. The kids were great, but I didn't want to deal with those parents acting that way all year.

Marsha

 

[torinsmom]

Ummm, my now 2nd grader does not sit in one classroom all day. She goes to art in which supplies and desks are shared as well as other classes and the computer lab.

My preK/K's go to art, library, PE and music, so they do switch classes.

 

[taylor3297]

I used socks for erasers one year, but they grossed me out -- just looked like dirty socks!


Now I buy black felt squares and cut them into smaller pieces. They are very cheap and nobody tries to make a puppet out of them.

That is why you wash them each week. The black felt gets just as dirty, you just can't see it.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Ummm, my now 2nd grader does not sit in one classroom all day. She goes to art in which supplies and desks are shared as well as other classes and the computer lab.

Speaking of Art, we had open house the other night and the Art teacher had a request list as well. We went and dropped off the things she requested and that made her really light up. Not many parents take the time to meet the art teacher or give her necessary supplies. We don't provide everything but the few things she requested helps her be able to spend the money on the more expensive items.

As for being sick and communal supplies, what my youngest's teacher did was actually place small amounts of the unopened crayons, glue sticks (out of packages), pencils (out of packages), etc, in drawers so the kids who needed them could access them. They did need to have permission to get up and get them but it gave kids their "own" supplies at their desk but were still for all kids. If you have a teacher not wanting you to have the kids' names on the supplies brought in than maybe ask if they can do it this way. We still had pencil boxes for the kids and they kept their 1 box of crayons in there with their 1 glue stick, pencil (not sure how many) and that at their desk. I really liked how it was done and it gave the kids a little responsibility but also allowed the teacher to have some control to know who was doing what with crayons and pencils.

I meant for most of the day. I should have been more specific.
I too make sure to touch base with all of the specials teachers too. I think it is important. They are all teaching my child so I want them to know I appreciate what they are doing and if they need anything etc.
It sounds like the classroom you mentioned has a good system in place. The best of both worlds.

 

[mum4jenn]

"Changing classes" does not include things like art, music, P.E. Changing classes is having one teacher for Math and going to another teacher for Reading, another for Science, etc.

 

[smb6]

"Changing classes" does not include things like art, music, P.E. Changing classes is having one teacher for Math and going to another teacher for Reading, another for Science, etc.

Here, starting in 4th grade my kids change classes for every subject (math, science, social studies, reading, in addition to the art, music, ect....) When I was in school, that didn't start till middle school. Here- they also change classes for reading starting as early as 1st or 2nd grade. In 3rd, they change for math and reading. In 4th, they change for every single subject. The teachers are "specialist" on the subject they teach and the kids are placed in classes based on their placement testing scores. That way all the high readers are together, the low readers are together, ect.... The same for math and other subjects; the kids are placed together so that the teacher can work with them at the appropriate pace. I actually think it is a good system. But it does make the supply list all the more longer....

 

[mum4jenn]

Here, starting in 4th grade my kids change classes for every subject (math, science, social studies, reading, in addition to the art, music, ect....) When I was in school, that didn't start till middle school. Here- they also change classes for reading starting as early as 1st or 2nd grade. In 3rd, they change for math and reading. In 4th, they change for every single subject. The teachers are "specialist" on the subject they teach and the kids are placed in classes based on their placement testing scores. That way all the high readers are together, the low readers are together, ect.... The same for math and other subjects; the kids are placed together so that the teacher can work with them at the appropriate pace. I actually think it is a good system. But it does make the supply list all the more longer....

Yeah that is pretty much the same way they do here except all kinds of kids are together in homeroom and then when it is time to change classes they are grouped according to ability. In Middle school they group them according to CRCT scores and they travel back and forth between a team of 3 or 4 teachers.
Of course they also have P.E. and other stuff like that but those type of classes are not considered "changing classes". Several on here think that going to art, music and PE are changing classes but those are completely different than the core classes.

 

[torinsmom]

"Changing classes" does not include things like art, music, P.E. Changing classes is having one teacher for Math and going to another teacher for Reading, another for Science, etc.

A PP was just saying earlier in the thread that earlier grades don't have to worry about getting germs from several rooms like kids that change classes several times a day, because they are in the same room all day long. The kids do go to at least 2 classrooms a day, and those specials classrooms have 4-5 different groups of kids a day. That equals a lot of germs. Maybe it is not changing classrooms in the typical sense, but they are in more than one classroom each day.

Marsha

 

[luvmy3]

That is why you wash them each week. The black felt gets just as dirty, you just can't see it.

The pp could just use black socks too

 

[Twins]

Michigan teacher here - if you pay any attention to the news schools are suffering in Michigan and teachers in all disticts are all taking huge cuts. In the fall I will be taking a 15% pay cut - that is a lot. I am not going to get into a teacher pay debate but when a parent is cheap (not the ones that truely can't afford it - but the cheap ones) it drives me crazy. I spend over $500 a year on basic supplies for CHEAP parents.

Yes, you are correct we can not require but we can suggest.

It makes me crazy that people will spend thousands of $$$ on a WDW vacation (and flaunt it at school and make a huge deal about pulling their child for a week) but they won't buy their child a pencil and some paper - those are some messed up priorities.

Cut out one WDW TS meal and your back to school budget will be paid for.

I'm well aware of the problems of Michigan schools. My children's elementary school was closed at the end of the year due to budget issues. They will be attending another school in the district this fall.

I did not bring up teacher pay. That is an issue between the teachers and the district. Why do you spend your money for supplies? Who asks you to do that? It's your district's responsibility to pay for the items necessary for classroom instruction. I wouldn't want you spending your money on my kids. The money you earn is your pay to do with as you please.

I would never take my kids out of school for a vacation, but if I chose to that shouldn't mean that I am cheap because I think schools should supply paper, pencils, and any other materials that a teacher needs to meet the educational needs of the student.

 

[Twins]

Umm, exactly when did this become law?? I went to school from 4th grade until graduation in Michigan and have NEVER heard such nonsense.

I swear some people have to find ways around everything. And just how many teachers and school personnel have lost jobs due to the lack of taxes and funding to support their jobs?? I know a Michigan school district that has had to close numerous schools due to budget cuts even though a new millage or whatever they call it was passed. Very sad that some people have such a problem providing pencils and papers for their kids.

http://www.cfywipes.com/Schools force parents to buy more supplies - 9-17-04.htm

You can also access information from Michigan Dept. of Education.

 

[mum4jenn]

I am 49 years old and always went to schools here in GA. We have ALWAYS had to buy basic school supplies. Yes the lists are getting longer but the economy is much worse and there is not money to supply thousands of children with all of these supplies. Our school furloughed all employees of the system last year (even the Board took pay cuts) and this year they have cut the school year by 4 days for everyone. The Board is slso taking several unpaid meeting days and no one has had a raise in 3 years except for any teachers that get higher degrees.

I have never minded buying school supplies for my child (or myself because I use them also with working at a school) I try to always buy on sale or clearance and I will buy extras so if they need to be replaced we already have them, or in advance of the next year when money might be tighter. Also if I see I have something I do not need I will take them to a teacher that has asked for some or to the office to give a child that needs it.
Last year I had lots of used back packs that I took to the school because several kids towards the end of the year needed a replacement. My salary is well under the poverty level but I do the best I can do. Things like glue, sanitizer, tissues, etc have always been shared. The students have always been able to keep their special items with them in their bookbags. My daughter has also been taught to be kind and she learned to share a long time ago and to not be stingy. If somone borrows something out of her personal supplies she either gets it back or in the case of notebook paper she does not worry about it.
I even keep extra prong folders so if I see a student that has been working on something special (like a storybook) and their papers are getting wrinkled and dirty, I will give them one of the folders to keep their work in. It's all about sharing and compassion. It is not about mine mine mine mine.
Our state Governor used to give the teacher a $100 card to use for supplies for their classrooms but once the budget and economy tanked they lost those. We used to have a tax-free weekend at back to school time but that has been lost as well. It did not really matter to me because I would buy at the great sales anyway and not wait until the tax free weekend because by then things are pretty much gone anyway.

 

[AZMermaid]

I did not bring up teacher pay. That is an issue between the teachers and the district. Why do you spend your money for supplies? Who asks you to do that? It's your district's responsibility to pay for the items necessary for classroom instruction. I wouldn't want you spending your money on my kids. The money you earn is your pay to do with as you please.

.

In a perfect world, yes, it is the district's problem. But the "district" isn't in there with the kids. In mid income schools let's say 1/4 of the kids don't bring adequate supplies- more in lower income, less in higher income. So, in a class of 24 kids (This is the average class size for Kinder here in AZ for next year) that is 6 kids. Imagine this scenario. "Okay pull out your crayons and...." You now have 6 kids who can not participate because they do not have crayons. Why don't they have crayons? They cost like a quarter, right? Sometimes it is a custody thing, each parent insists that the other should buy supplies, so neither does. Sad and awful, but I see it every year.

Sometimes it is a poverty thing. But, wait, they are a quarter, right? Right. But, I went to a really interesting seminar by Ruby Payne (aka- the poverty guru) that explained that people who live in deep poverty don't understand the world of things like Back to School Sales. It doesn't enter their radar and they don't get the paper to see the ads. If they have no transportation, they likely get their groceries and things at a 7-11 type place or maybe a grocery store. None of these places have 25 cent crayons. It is a totally crazy thing to most of us, but when you have worked with these populations, it really rings true.

So, the Kindergarten teacher is in there with 24 kids and no aides or adult help. 6 have no crayons to use to complete their assignments. These 6 kids will get bored and become a disruption to the other kids. So, the teacher is now dealing with behavior issues that could have been avoided. Maybe 1-2 will bring some after a week or two of notes home, but that is a week of no crayons and now the kid is totally humiliated and has started school feeling like a loser for not having the crayons. So, instead, the teacher takes the easy route and spends $1.50 on the crayons for the kids. Not a lot, but when you repeat this scenario on all supplies, it becomes very overwhelming for someone who makes $34,000 a year (my current salary as a 5th year teacher).

 

[princessmom29]

My kids have a pencil pouch in their binder that comes home every night. Every time I go through it (every 2 or 3 weeks) I make sure they have at least 5 pencils, usually more. When it was time for state testing, I made sure they had 10. My point is even lending them out, using them up, losing them, etc -- I have never seen less than three pencils in that case. I have no idea how many they go through in a year. But I made sure they had enough to get through school with a few to spare.

I don't know how to solve the problem about unprepared kids and poor or apathetic parents. If you can't by law insist they bring supplies then really it should be the school's responsibility to provide them. If the school can't/won't provide them, then there has to be a way to insist. In music this year the kids had recorders. If kids forgot them they got an "X" in their agenda. Not having a pencil or paper is not being prepared for class. Whatever the penalty for that is, is how you "insist". Maybe they lose a few points on their assignment because it will be late since they didn't have the materials to complete it with everyone else. This may be harsh, but there has to be a way to teach kids to be responsible for their things and to put pressure on the parents. If you have a parent who flat out refuses to bring supplies and doesn't care if their kid's grade suffers, I don't know what to tell you. But I still don't think it is right for the other kids in the class to have to pick up the slack.

Legally, a child cannot be given a grade based on lack of supplies. Our district got sued on this a while back. We either have to either excuse the child with no supplies from the assignment, or provide the supplies to do the work. We charge a lab fee of $10 at my school to cover consumables used in lab throughout the semester. If a child doesn't pay the fee they have to either be excused form lab or given and alrternate assignment they can complete without lab supplies. we cannot simply give them a zero because they do not have supplies.We get absolutely no supply money, so that means the teacher either chooses to provide supplies form thier personal funds or give alternate assignments. The kids don't care as long as they get thier points, and legally we cannot make thier grade suffer from a lack of supplies.

 

[MouseLover]

That is why you wash them each week. The black felt gets just as dirty, you just can't see it.

I'm not going to wash them. Of course they're still dirty, that's why I buy black.

 

[MouseLover]

When I was a kid, we still had to buy the basic supplies -- paper, pencils, scissors, glue, crayons, ruler, notebooks, binders, Kleenex. I don't think germ-x existed. But we took care of our supplies back then. Many kids today have a sense of entitlement and do not take care of their things. I have students break crayons into little pieces, purposely break a pencil so they can use the pencil sharpener, cut their eraser into chunks, etc. So kids in general seem to use more supplies. Also, we make the list for the entire year so parents can stock up while things are on sale. I have watched kids step over a crayon rather than pick it up and then wonder what happened to their missing red crayon.

I make my best guess as to how much students will actually use. If there are left over supplies at the end of the year, I send them home to be used the next year. I never thought it would make parents mad to get this stuff back. This year I had a very wasteful class. We used more kleenexes than any class I've had and we ran out of pencils even though they sent in 2 dozen each.

The only community supplies I have are pencils. If a child brings decorated pencils, I send them home or they can keep them in their box but they can not use my pencil sharpener for them. The plain pencils get partially distributed and the rest put up for community use as needed. I keep a cup of sharpened pencils available so they can switch out quickly without disrupting class.

I have no problem with decorated/special folders or notebooks. In fact, I prefer the special folders. They are large enough to hold torn-out workbook pages or construction paper and they are sturdy enough to use for privacy walls. Plastic/poly folders tend to fold over and the cheap ones just fall down and aren't large enough to accommodate all of our paper sizes.

I buy basic supplies in case some students need them and I bought a dozen Fiskars scissors a few years ago. If a student needs them, they can borrow them and keep them in their box for the whole year. If I run out of supplies or need other items for a child, our counselor usually has extras.

 

[TwinsinCA]

Legally, a child cannot be given a grade based on lack of supplies. Our district got sued on this a while back. We either have to either excuse the child with no supplies from the assignment, or provide the supplies to do the work. We charge a lab fee of $10 at my school to cover consumables used in lab throughout the semester. If a child doesn't pay the fee they have to either be excused form lab or given and alrternate assignment they can complete without lab supplies. we cannot simply give them a zero because they do not have supplies.We get absolutely no supply money, so that means the teacher either chooses to provide supplies form thier personal funds or give alternate assignments. The kids don't care as long as they get thier points, and legally we cannot make thier grade suffer from a lack of supplies.

So if a kid says he couldn't do his homework because he didn't have any paper or a pencil at home -- they just get a pass? Do you make them present the answers orally? If they do not have the most basic of supplies -- paper and pencil -- what alternative assignment can be given?

 

[nicki.momof3]

I'm well aware of the problems of Michigan schools. My children's elementary school was closed at the end of the year due to budget issues. They will be attending another school in the district this fall.

I did not bring up teacher pay. That is an issue between the teachers and the district. Why do you spend your money for supplies? Who asks you to do that? It's your district's responsibility to pay for the items necessary for classroom instruction. I wouldn't want you spending your money on my kids. The money you earn is your pay to do with as you please.

I would never take my kids out of school for a vacation, but if I chose to that shouldn't mean that I am cheap because I think schools should supply paper, pencils, and any other materials that a teacher needs to meet the educational needs of the student.

You have a great polly anna view of what a school pays for (everything). However, it is a fact schools will not supply everything a teacher / students need to be successful. I would LOVE if the school paid for everything but I get $50 a year for paper, pencils, and so on. NO MORE - NO OPTION.

So when parents such as yourself do not supply your child with the materials neccesay to succeed in class I have to. As a teacher I can not sit back and watch you child suffer because you will not buy him / her a pencil and other supplies.

Just suck it up - hit the great sales at Walmart right now and supply your child with the tools necessary to be successful in school.

 

[nicki.momof3]

In a perfect world, yes, it is the district's problem. But the "district" isn't in there with the kids. In mid income schools let's say 1/4 of the kids don't bring adequate supplies- more in lower income, less in higher income. So, in a class of 24 kids (This is the average class size for Kinder here in AZ for next year) that is 6 kids. Imagine this scenario. "Okay pull out your crayons and...." You now have 6 kids who can not participate because they do not have crayons. Why don't they have crayons? They cost like a quarter, right? Sometimes it is a custody thing, each parent insists that the other should buy supplies, so neither does. Sad and awful, but I see it every year.

Sometimes it is a poverty thing. But, wait, they are a quarter, right? Right. But, I went to a really interesting seminar by Ruby Payne (aka- the poverty guru) that explained that people who live in deep poverty don't understand the world of things like Back to School Sales. It doesn't enter their radar and they don't get the paper to see the ads. If they have no transportation, they likely get their groceries and things at a 7-11 type place or maybe a grocery store. None of these places have 25 cent crayons. It is a totally crazy thing to most of us, but when you have worked with these populations, it really rings true.

So, the Kindergarten teacher is in there with 24 kids and no aides or adult help. 6 have no crayons to use to complete their assignments. These 6 kids will get bored and become a disruption to the other kids. So, the teacher is now dealing with behavior issues that could have been avoided. Maybe 1-2 will bring some after a week or two of notes home, but that is a week of no crayons and now the kid is totally humiliated and has started school feeling like a loser for not having the crayons. So, instead, the teacher takes the easy route and spends $1.50 on the crayons for the kids. Not a lot, but when you repeat this scenario on all supplies, it becomes very overwhelming for someone who makes $34,000 a year (my current salary as a 5th year teacher).

Very well said - I wish everyone whould look at this from reality not "what should be".

 

[splash5]

Just wait until they hit high school. Then it is a graphing calculator with many functions for math (around $100) plus asb card, yearbook, etc.....

I work at a school and it's true that parents are asked to provide way more than they used to- the sad fact is that there isn't the extra money for these supplies anymore. Budget cuts are taking more and more away from schools and we are having to educate with less and less. Where are our priorities? Look at all the money spent on war.